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Andorian Change

rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,060 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Federation Discussion
When did Cryptic change the sexes on Andorian bridge officers? Females used to be listed as zhen (shen) and males as thaan (chan) which was perfect. Why change?
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  • velktravelktra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Probably because it was confusing players who don't know that Andorians have four separate genders. Granted, I think we learned that from Enterprise, which people around here keep saying isn't canon and doesn't count.
    Demons run when a good man goes to war.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    velktra wrote: »
    Probably because it was confusing players who don't know that Andorians have four separate genders. Granted, I think we learned that from Enterprise, which people around here keep saying isn't canon and doesn't count.
    It's not that it doesn't count. It's simply that many fans started getting Trek burn-out near the end of DS9/early Voyager, so very few casual Trek fans really know what happened in either of those series. It's easier to pretend it's not canon then to admit you just have no idea. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • velktravelktra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    It's not that it doesn't count. It's simply that many fans started getting Trek burn-out near the end of DS9/early Voyager, so very few casual Trek fans really know what happened in either of those series. It's easier to pretend it's not canon then to admit you just have no idea. :)

    But a lot of them making the claim have seen it! I actually know people who have watched the whole series and then immediately claimed "It's fake, it didn't happen, it was all a holoprogram" based on the final episode. That's what makes it funny. :P
    Demons run when a good man goes to war.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    velktra wrote: »
    But a lot of them making the claim have seen it! I actually know people who have watched the whole series and then immediately claimed "It's fake, it didn't happen, it was all a holoprogram" based on the final episode. That's what makes it funny. :P
    Only the final episode was a holo simulation.
    That's why i want to belive that Trip Tucker did not die like we saw it on screen.

    Enterprise is fully canon!


    Live long and prosper.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I believe the "four genders" thing is apocryphal. It was never mentioned on Enterprise or any other series, as far as I remember.

    And yes, Enterprise is canon. (rightfully so - I think it's one of the best!)
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
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  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,804 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    velktra wrote: »
    Probably because it was confusing players

    I don't see what's so confusing about "this one has TRIBBLE, but that one doesn't". It's not like the sexes are difficult to distinguish at a glance. There was absolutely no logical reason to change the old style of Andorian gender to simply male/female.
  • velktravelktra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    jexsamx wrote: »
    I don't see what's so confusing about "this one has TRIBBLE, but that one doesn't". It's not like the sexes are difficult to distinguish at a glance. There was absolutely no logical reason to change the old style of Andorian gender to simply male/female.

    Some people are dumb? :D

    Also, I appear to have mixed up my sources earlier. Could have sworn the four genders thing was in Enterprise, but I was wrong. Sorry. :o
    Demons run when a good man goes to war.
  • joshl7889joshl7889 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    okay, i have an unusual obsession with Andorians and watched the entire Enterprise series from start to finish and do not recall hearing anything about Andorians having 4 different genders. I think people are just trying to confuse people
    *Me*Why don't you just step away from the weapons console. You and I both know that you couldn't hit that cube, even if it was right in front of us.
    *Junior Tactical Officer* But sir the cube IS right in front of us.
    *Me* EXACTLY! Its right in front of us and you still missed it! Just step away from the console.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    joshl7889 wrote: »
    okay, i have an unusual obsession with Andorians and watched the entire Enterprise series from start to finish and do not recall hearing anything about Andorians having 4 different genders. I think people are just trying to confuse people
    The 4 sexes comes from various novels. This is all considered Soft Canon as its never been seen in any TV series or movie.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • f9thaceshighf9thaceshigh Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    the closest it came to a canon reference is when Data said Andorian marriages involve 4 people in "Data's Day." But it's consistently referenced in all the books that involve Andorians. Frankly, IIRC, the info said zhen/shen (female), or something to that effect, isn't that obvious enough? They're aliens, what's wrong with 4 genders?
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    They're aliens, what's wrong with 4 genders?
    There's nothing wrong with it, but it can be confusing for people who aren't avid Trek fans. It's important to keep in mind that the vast majority of people playing STO are casual Trek fans - they might see an episode occasionally and the movies when they come out, but that's all the effort they put into it.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • edited September 2012
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I remember an Enterprise episode where an alien race treated their third gender as second class citizens, but I am not sure if it is the Andorians or not since it has been years.
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    starkaos wrote: »
    I remember an Enterprise episode where an alien race treated their third gender as second class citizens, but I am not sure if it is the Andorians or not since it has been years.

    Those were the Vissians from "Cogenitor", season 2.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Very, it come from novel that are about as canon as this very MMO we are playing.

    Also there is no point in that, gender in the game only exist for what model to be displayed, zhen and shen are "female" as chan and thaan are male, what would be the point of having those extra two options that would be utter redundant?

    CBS has actually stated that (with the exception of the thousands of admirals and some tech things like so many cloaking defiant class ships flying around) STO IS Canon.

    Since they're unlikely to revisit the prime universe again thanks to Abrams "Lens flare in space" movie they wanted the old school fans to, you know, not kill them in nerd rage.


    STO is our prime universe, it's the history that CBS states is canon.


    That's why certain things just can't be done and why CBS restricts so many other things.
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    foundrelic wrote: »
    CBS has actually stated that (with the exception of the thousands of admirals and some tech things like so many cloaking defiant class ships flying around) STO IS Canon.
    CBS has never stated that, nor has anyone who works for Cryptic. STO has always been considered 'soft' canon, just like a novel or any of the other video games which have been released over the years.
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,060 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Good feedback. It seems Andorians were simplified to just Male/Female but Aenar still have the Zhen/Shen, Thaan/Chan designation. Odd, right?
  • joshl7889joshl7889 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Okay, so now I have to bite my tongue and apologize. Because I am currently reading The Good that men do and it does state the 4 gender thing about them. My apologies
    *Me*Why don't you just step away from the weapons console. You and I both know that you couldn't hit that cube, even if it was right in front of us.
    *Junior Tactical Officer* But sir the cube IS right in front of us.
    *Me* EXACTLY! Its right in front of us and you still missed it! Just step away from the console.
  • onenonlydrockonenonlydrock Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'd just go with and and consider the 4 separate genders to be canon. It gives the Andorian race a little more flavour. What purpose would it serve to retcon that?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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