It's not the most common build, we all know there out there. Most only have a about a 10-20K DPS, but that still kills the biggest ships in seconds if they're flat-footed.
I'm aware being able to do that burns though some cooldown and abilities, but being able to do that means a tac captain has the leeway to be able to laugh it off or run 20-30Km away if it doesn't work. With impunity. If I get in a fight with another carrier, I could lose, but I have fair to even odds I could win? My best bet with a escort? Spam everything I've got now and force them to use their ability to run away.
My request? If you want to feed a button mashers the ability to kill do 20-50K damage in under three seconds? The devs have had way too long to nerf that if they dared. Give engineering and science captains a bigger tanking boost. A Passive bonus to hull strength for engineers, and science captains the ability to partially adapt or automatically debuff damage would be equally overpowered I think.
Honestly I think it would be simpler to tone down that massive burst damage tac captains can pull off, but if not giving a tic-for-tat counter would be nice.
It's not the most common build, we all know there out there. Most only have a about a 10-20K DPS, but that still kills the biggest ships in seconds if they're flat-footed.
I'm aware being able to do that burns though some cooldown and abilities, but being able to do that means a tac captain has the leeway to be able to laugh it off or run 20-30Km away if it doesn't work. With impunity. If I get in a fight with another carrier, I could lose, but I have fair to even odds I could win? My best bet with a escort? Spam everything I've got now and force them to use their ability to run away.
My request? If you want to feed a button mashers the ability to kill do 20-50K damage in under three seconds? The devs have had way too long to nerf that if they dared. Give engineering and science captains a bigger tanking boost. A Passive bonus to hull strength for engineers, and science captains the ability to partially adapt or automatically debuff damage would be equally overpowered I think.
Honestly I think it would be simpler to tone down that massive burst damage tac captains can pull off, but if not giving a tic-for-tat counter would be nice.
For all my buffs and alpha strikes, I've encountered many engineering captains in cruisers and could not put a dent in the hull by myself. Or, if I finally did overcome their shields and hull, it certainly wasn't quick. Of course, I've also destroyed many unprepared/improperly spec'ed cruiser captains as well.
As for science officers, I've been neutered by subnucs more times then I can count.
Tactical officers are meant to be damage builds. Because, frankly, that's all they can do.
Honestly I think it would be simpler to tone down that massive burst damage tac captains can pull off, but if not giving a tic-for-tat counter would be nice.
The problem with toning down the burst power is that if that's all you do then you've only succeeded in rendering the Escorts and Destroyers useless and put the ball in the court of the cruisers again.
As things now the burst power is a necessity to deal with tanky players and yes there are cruisers out there that cannot be killed by 1 person and in fact it's fairly simple to do once you understand the mechanics of the game better.
Long post short, the answer is not to reduce the burst power of escorts, the answer for you is to improve your tanking power as it relates to your build and not change the dps potential of other ships.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
the best healer has twice the healing then the damage of the best damage dealer. thats why "spike damage is the only damage that maters". a middle of the road cruiser that tries to do both will have about an even amount of healing as there is incoming damage, this still usually gives a win the the middle of the road cruiser. to stay alive, its all about knowing when its time to use certain heals and when to hold off. you never want to use rsp unless death is guarantied a second later, or all your shields are slivers.
The problem with toning down the burst power is that if that's all you do then you've only succeeded in rendering the Escorts and Destroyers useless and put the ball in the court of the cruisers again.
As things now the burst power is a necessity to deal with tanky players and yes there are cruisers out there that cannot be killed by 1 person and in fact it's fairly simple to do once you understand the mechanics of the game better.
Long post short, the answer is not to reduce the burst power of escorts, the answer for you is to improve your tanking power as it relates to your build and not change the dps potential of other ships.
And, this^ seems like what Cryptic does best. NERF healing, crusiers, beams, Sci powers, and put excorts on top. Before it was NERF escorts and put something else on the top of the FOTM heap. When the playerbase gets tired of "Escorts Online" (used to be Crusiers Online") then re-NERF everything and make something else OP. All the while planning something for the C-Store that gives back a little of the power for what used to be the norm and sell it at top dollar.
I /agree with the OP. Crusiers and even tanking/healing in general has been made almost moot, or delegated to nothing more than a support profession in PVP gameplay via the NERFs that came just before and with F2P. Crusiers need more tanking/healing. You can kick everything you have and still watch 10K+ shields and 54K+ hull gone in less than 2 seconds. You know, what they had before the NERFs and all the P2W DPS adds in the C-Store since.
This is exactly why I quit PVP gameplay back when the NERFs came out. And since then, we get a dev coming to the PVP forums and saying something to the effect of "we could take PVP out of the game and no1 would even notice". Now, the 64 dollar question is....., "Wonder why?"
the best healer has twice the healing then the damage of the best damage dealer. thats why "spike damage is the only damage that maters". a middle of the road cruiser that tries to do both will have about an even amount of healing as there is incoming damage, this still usually gives a win the the middle of the road cruiser. to stay alive, its all about knowing when its time to use certain heals and when to hold off. you never want to use rsp unless death is guarantied a second later, or all your shields are slivers.
This is exactly why I quit PVP gameplay back when the NERFs came out. And since then, we get a dev coming to the PVP forums and saying something to the effect of "we could take PVP out of the game and no1 would even notice". Now, the 64 dollar question is....., "Wonder why?"
Maybe I don't get the message, but this game has already so many heals and resists, that killing a good engi cruiser is many times mission impossible for one escort. Not few times i see engis tanking 2 escorts for a good ammount of time. I would say give engi and sci the option to deal more damage through their abilities, and take out/reduce some of those insane tanking options. Nerfing tacs will make this game boring. Adding more resists or heal power to an engi would be even worse. But maybe the solution to that is some new more powerful weapons. Btw, have you guys seen the new fleet antiproton weapons with 4 modifiers? Dmg x3 and acc.
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We fight, we love, and then we kill...
And, this^ seems like what Cryptic does best. NERF healing, crusiers, beams, Sci powers, and put excorts on top. Before it was NERF escorts and put something else on the top of the FOTM heap. When the playerbase gets tired of "Escorts & Fleet Tor'khats Online" (used to be Crusiers Online") then re-NERF everything and make something else OP. All the while planning something for the C-Store that gives back a little of the power for what used to be the norm and sell it at top dollar.
Fixed a small part of a statement that I felt is actually more correct once more KDF fleets reach tier 2.
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Let me strat over, the best I can hope for in a cruiser or carrier vs a escort is a draw or forcing the escort to retreat. There are a few abilities to draw it out for a few second, but all the abilities in the game isn't going to help you when even with 40K shields (tac team) and ~55K hull only lasts you about two to three seconds.
I have no problem with escorts being focused on ship killing.
What I have a problem with is there is very little puts up with the damage they hand out, or their ability to retreat with at will if they don't kill something in a few seconds.
A bigger problem with being able to burn through 90K hitpoints in a few seconds, is - even then you have the abilities to survive - it's over in seconds. That's barely enough time to queue something and for the server to acknowledge a command even if you have your figure right on a "I Win" button. Edit: The server will all have tallied 30-70% of your health being gone before most people even see a number roll off the hull.
Even if you don't want to tone down the damage, buff hull or health of non-escorts to give them more then two seconds to respond would be great.
Edit: Better yet, reduces escort hull to 10-15K. Most escort get away with 30-40K when dedicated tanks doesn't have more then 55K and 1/10 the damage.
Let me strat over, the best I can hope for in a cruiser or carrier vs a escort is a draw or forcing the escort to retreat. There are a few abilities to draw it out for a few second, but all the abilities in the game isn't going to help you when even with 40K shields (tac team) and ~55K hull only lasts you about two to three seconds.
I have no problem with escorts being focused on ship killing.
What I have a problem with is there is very little puts up with the damage they hand out, or their ability to retreat with at will if they don't kill something in a few seconds.
A bigger problem with being able to burn through 90K hitpoints in a few seconds, is - even then you have the abilities to survive - it's over in seconds. That's barely enough time to queue something and for the server to acknowledge a command even if you have your figure right on a "I Win" button. Edit: The server will all have tallied 30-70% of your health being gone before most people even see a number roll off the hull.
Even if you don't want to tone down the damage, buff hull or health of non-escorts to give them more then two seconds to respond would be great.
Edit: Better yet, reduces escort hull to 10-15K. Most escort get away with 30-40K when dedicated tanks doesn't have more then 55K and 1/10 the damage.
it sounds like you arent running 2 copies of EPtS1, and hitting the distribute all key. always on shield resistance and always distributing your shields when theres a chance to get shot at will turn even the mightiest alpha strike into only a minor concern. they can be countered with minimal hull damage when you start engaging other resists and heals.
TT is the first thing you should hit, unless you have literally maxed out shield power, hitpointas and resistance, you need TT. TSS lasts as long as your average alpha strike, it lasts the same amount of time as cannon abilities. that will give you a strong temporary resistance and heal over time. auxiliary to structural is great too for healing any initial hull damage that got through, and resisting any more.
they may seem daunting and unmanageable, but they will just become a boringly common thing you have to deal with, and you get very good at dealing with them.
Let me strat over, the best I can hope for in a cruiser or carrier vs a escort is a draw or forcing the escort to retreat. There are a few abilities to draw it out for a few second, but all the abilities in the game isn't going to help you when even with 40K shields (tac team) and ~55K hull only lasts you about two to three seconds.
I have no problem with escorts being focused on ship killing.
What I have a problem with is there is very little puts up with the damage they hand out, or their ability to retreat with at will if they don't kill something in a few seconds.
A bigger problem with being able to burn through 90K hitpoints in a few seconds, is - even then you have the abilities to survive - it's over in seconds. That's barely enough time to queue something and for the server to acknowledge a command even if you have your figure right on a "I Win" button. Edit: The server will all have tallied 30-70% of your health being gone before most people even see a number roll off the hull.
Even if you don't want to tone down the damage, buff hull or health of non-escorts to give them more then two seconds to respond would be great.
Edit: Better yet, reduces escort hull to 10-15K. Most escort get away with 30-40K when dedicated tanks doesn't have more then 55K and 1/10 the damage.
Most cruisers don't have the capability of trapping a decent escort pilot. That's ship design and a good one imo. Sci ships and other escorts are there to apply TBs and debuff movements/evasives. On the other hand a "tank" cruiser build shouldn't be dieing to escorts given the number of defense boosts now available. In otherwords it's a standoff.
In fact defense has been boosted far more in since F2P than damage, you even pointed out significant ship hull boosts for most ships sans Raiders. This means there's less need for cross repairs/resistance buffs and beam array cruisers are less effective in their pressure DPS role. Lowering escort damage won't address the issue you're having. Raising damage across the board will.
Also, there's been many ways to boost power level significantly since F2P this helps defense, reduces the need for some of the Eng Captain power mgt abilities, and even allows for people to avoid spec'ing as much into Eng power skills freeing up Skill points in other areas. One way to address this is to raise the weapon power cap and increase power drains in other areas while having working counters/mitigations.
For avoiding spike damage deaths and recovering from spike combos the key is to chain your resistant buffs and HP repair abilities. Cruisers should be able to prebuff w/EPTS or if nothing else run max shield power until you have a good reason to use another power preset.
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Let me strat over, the best I can hope for in a cruiser or carrier vs a escort is a draw or forcing the escort to retreat. There are a few abilities to draw it out for a few second, but all the abilities in the game isn't going to help you when even with 40K shields (tac team) and ~55K hull only lasts you about two to three seconds.
I have no problem with escorts being focused on ship killing.
What I have a problem with is there is very little puts up with the damage they hand out, or their ability to retreat with at will if they don't kill something in a few seconds.
A bigger problem with being able to burn through 90K hitpoints in a few seconds, is - even then you have the abilities to survive - it's over in seconds. That's barely enough time to queue something and for the server to acknowledge a command even if you have your figure right on a "I Win" button. Edit: The server will all have tallied 30-70% of your health being gone before most people even see a number roll off the hull.
Even if you don't want to tone down the damage, buff hull or health of non-escorts to give them more then two seconds to respond would be great.
Edit: Better yet, reduces escort hull to 10-15K. Most escort get away with 30-40K when dedicated tanks doesn't have more then 55K and 1/10 the damage.
Dear OP. I suggest you read Mavs Cruiser and Sci threads. If you can't survive after reading and following the advice given there, just /uninstall your game and save us the trouble of your baseless knowledge less ranting.
I sleep through alpha strikes, even delivered by the best of the best if I have any defenses at all running at the time.
As far as "Surviving the impossible!" goes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPuXgrLwoQ You'll notice me eating several alpha runs there, in a far lighter ship than the one you are flying which has access to much lower level and lower total # of heals. It's called Shield Damage Resistance and Tac Team. You want to boost those. And not run stupid TRIBBLE like Boarding party in your engineering slots.
Cruiser Tanking becomes irrelevant when hit with SNB, EWP, VM and now the more common tactic using TBR on you while slicing through you with CRFIII.
Cruisers are better suited for team heals these days.
I use to fly a cruiser and could hold with the best of them but that was 2 or 3 seasons ago.
Every now and then I take her out but Fighters/Escorts prove far more effective at both dmg and mobility tanking.
Good Tac Escorts are harder to kill than good cruisers or sci ships.
They cannot be killed by anything other than an other good escort (or maybe a very good tac cruiser) so this means if you are a sci ship or cruiser you cannot even drive them off, without support you cannot out heal the DPS so you will die to a good player.
I has gotten so silly that when pugging or even as a team, the weak link to kill is the poor cruiser healer
We need an effective* damage/offensive skill increase for sci ships and engy cruisers.
Beams Arrays need a bit of love too generally.
*I know you can put big score on the board with tbr, transphasics, grav well, etc but this isn't that effective unless used in a specific team set up even then you'd be much much better with a cannon using escort.
When creating a character, it says engis can create drones and other mechanics, i always though the engis in this game should have carriers to compensate for lack of dps...
The Average PvP player
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Let me strat over, the best I can hope for in a cruiser or carrier vs a escort is a draw or forcing the escort to retreat. There are a few abilities to draw it out for a few second, but all the abilities in the game isn't going to help you when even with 40K shields (tac team) and ~55K hull only lasts you about two to three seconds.
I have no problem with escorts being focused on ship killing.
What I have a problem with is there is very little puts up with the damage they hand out, or their ability to retreat with at will if they don't kill something in a few seconds.
A bigger problem with being able to burn through 90K hitpoints in a few seconds, is - even then you have the abilities to survive - it's over in seconds. That's barely enough time to queue something and for the server to acknowledge a command even if you have your figure right on a "I Win" button. Edit: The server will all have tallied 30-70% of your health being gone before most people even see a number roll off the hull.
Even if you don't want to tone down the damage, buff hull or health of non-escorts to give them more then two seconds to respond would be great.
Edit: Better yet, reduces escort hull to 10-15K. Most escort get away with 30-40K when dedicated tanks doesn't have more then 55K and 1/10 the damage.
How I usually deal with a Tactical/Escort alpha attack run? is I fall asleep. I don?t even have to shoot back unless they are a Science captain in an Escort. Sub-Nucleonic Beam is woefully frightening!!!
Easiest way to tank an average player in a High DPS Escort is too continuously rotate Tactical Team-I every 15 seconds and continuously rotate EPTS-II or III every 30 seconds with EPTW-I every 15 seconds.
I recommend also that you need to have a minimum of 100 subsystem power level in shield; this includes power gained from EPTS as with this power level you gain a passive +35% all energy damage resistance to shields; not to mention increased shield regeneration. Also remember, even with TT-I, continue to re-distribute shields to the shield facing taking damage.
I also recommend setting two Key-binds for Offense and Defense. Switch from Offense to Defense when your overall shield strength gets below half. My presets are:
Offense 75/75/25/25
Defense 25/75/25/75
Just remember, no ship is invulnerable! And while the escorts seemingly can run away from the fight, just remember that PVP isn?t designed with 1 verse 1 in mind.
Your post is a wonderful demonstration of what is wrong with the attitude of many posters here. You are not taking serious, even mocking (possibly without noticing) the legitimate concerns of the person you replied to.
I did not mean to mock the poster. I simply meant, that the damage that a Tactical/Escort does against my rotating defense is nothing to "wake me" or alter me from pressing a single button as my Re-Distribute shields, EPTS-III, EPTW-I and Tactical team are all set to the same key-bind. Meaning all I do is press that one button over and over to have all of those abilities rotate continuously.
And of course you do not fall asleep:
See above comment on that.
So you are activating powers all the time, and not "falling asleep". You have to consciously spend resources to counter that attack, and that only to survive. Moreover, you have to kill your ability to do actual, meaningful damage to do it:
See my first response. I only have to press a single button to rotate and activate all of those abilities. Yawn!
So you don't fall asleep, but regarding your offensive, you could as well.
I didn't even comment on how I would deal damage back myself. If you must know... I use EPS and Red Matter capacitor. I have MKXII [ACCx2][dmg] weapons.
Sustaining fire on the target will force them to eventually withdraw; especially since they are not getting past my shields . My average DPV on my beam weapons is 1,075.
And even if they do get past a shield facing. My passive hull resistances sits at a healthy 51% before AUX-SIF III is even used.
So in a nut shell, I do not agree with the OP that Cruisers are having trouble tanking a single escort. I do agree that Cruisers have a very hard time destroying Escorts due to their high defense ratting. However, PVP is designed around two or more classes working together.
Your post is a wonderful demonstration of what is wrong with the attitude of many posters here. You are not taking serious, even mocking (possibly without noticing) the legitimate concerns of the person you replied to.
And of course you do not fall asleep:
So you are activating powers all the time, and not "falling asleep". You have to consciously spend resources to counter that attack, and that only to survive. Moreover, you have to kill your ability to do actual, meaningful damage to do it:
So you don't fall asleep, but regarding your offensive, you could as well.
The reaction time required in order to out tank an Escorts damage is so pitiful that I can do it, while drunk and can practically do it in my sleep. /faceroll keyboard and still heal team mates. Pressing 1 button every 30 seconds EPTS, and another every 15. (TT) Is not difficult in the least. Those two buttons right there on their own make a mockery of dps. Should I some how get further into trouble I can simply press a third button which also is good for 30 seconds, Rotate Shield Frequency.
4 buttons, in 30 seconds At Most. If you can't manage that, you should /uninstall the game. Now, I'll one up it, and add a fifth button that I constantly hit, called Distribute Shields, particularly in the gaps of TT coverage. With such a ludicrously high resist, (125 shield power + EPTS2 is in the neighborhood of 54 percent SDR on it's lonesome. if RSF is going I'm over pegged at the fully 75 percent SDR)
Now should something untoward happen and I get Sub Nuked and I'm already using RSF, I'll add 2 more buttons to the mix. Shield Battery, and Brace for impact. We're up to 6 buttons. Wooow sooo impossible to manage! OMG! If I some how get nuked again, I can just pop Reverse Shield Polarity and be covered another 10 seconds. 7 buttons. in 30 seconds. And that's if you get double sub nuked. If that's not being able to virtually fall asleep at the wheel for you, then you need some Uppers to raise your reflex speed.
In that time frame I'm also healing team mates, which is generally a little more frantic, as I have to manage Hazard, Transfer Shield Strength, Extend shields. I can still heal others while being shot at. Because my SDR is ludicrous. I'm also in that time hitting my chron mine spam button, and dumping warp plasma to snare enemy ships so my team mates can vape targets.
Infact, EPTS is always running for me anyway, simply so I can keep my Extends shields at maximum ability. So you might as well take those 2 off the list. Most people? They use Keybinds. so 4 of those buttons just got turned into one that they can constantly hit, easy.
Cause you know, I'm not a dumb TRIBBLE who builds a want to be zombie ship who can't even bring himself to use EPTS "cause everyone else does it and I am better than everyone else!" unlike some people in this thread.
http://postimage.org/image/53n1iziyt/full/ Here is the difference between knowing what you're doing and not. Well over three quarters of my heals could be attributed to throwing to 2 other ships near me. Those two ships were so in competent that they died, because they would A run out of my heal range, B not balance their shields (so I had to feed them my Tac Team) C would not use their Captain abilities what so ever (particularly the other engineer), D one of them was so stupid he was a Tac Starcruiser loaded up with Boarding party. By the way, the Tac wasn't the guy that came in second on damage on my team. That was the other eng. Crudelis and Dude both are top notch captains. Notice, 0 deaths on my part. And the only reason we didn't kill anyone, is because the other two captains on my team (the third warped when his BP didn't do anything to anyone ever), would not A Focus Fire, or B use any significant damage ability. They literally could not kill me, and it wasn't for lack of trying. Even 2 on 1 I was still healing the other two people on my team. (and I was the only one throwing heals) They were an Escort, and a sci ship on the opposing team.
No one said anyone could not manage that. It is just that the claim that "falling asleep" was possible while tanking is just contrafactual.
Your attempt to hijack the thread and transform it into another "I don't like you and your blasphemic disagreement" is noted.
See above last paragraph. It's pitifully easy to out do DPS in this game. I have fallen asleep while tanking up before. Because 30 seconds of nigh invincibility is a very long time. Maybe you should learn how to pvp so you don't burn every single heal you have just to survive one ship shooting you?
Also lil sophie, don't make up new words. It's very unbecoming.
Also, with the way complex binds work, you can take those 4 buttons down to 1, and set them to Space bar. If you can't rest your eyes while smashing a single button constantly (that you are smashing already or should be) you should probably re examine if games are for you or not.
I believe you. Yet you did, at least in my eyes - unwillingly, but that is how accidents happen.
So you don't fall asleep, you are bored because you set up your game that way.
Bored, fall asleep... figure of speech mate! Don't get too caught up in such things! I can speak very plainly if you would like, however, I might get bored at that as well.
Remove the keybind, press those buttons with the mouse, have more excitement. Or you could write a small script on your PC to automate even the pressing of that one button, so you could indeed fall asleep.
The key bind helps me focus on other things, such as how to time my offensive abilities. They also allow me some freedom to think about whom to heal or buff out of my nearest team mates with AUX-SIF III, Extend Shields I, Hazard emitters and even Tactical Team; hell, I may even ESP them instead of myself?
(Seriously, keybinds are even worse than "autofire for powers" could ever be.)
Key binds are great. They give the player breathing room to focus on other things. Such as switching between Offense and Defense power presets, healing other team mates, finding targets of opportunity around your ship, enjoying the games battle graphics and etc. Who really wants to sit and watch and wait to press that EPTW-I precisely when it needs to be pressed anyway? Not me!
Many do, and even you have to use a device that is not available for most players and high grade weaponry to still be useful then.
That is not true, I could just use consumable dual batteries to get the same if not better effect and in less time too. I just don't like buying or making them because I?m lazy. The RMC is neat, but it isn?t a hinge of my build. The hinge of a good cruiser is TT/EPTS. Without TT and EPTS, don?t even bother with PVP.
I am aware that this is a complicated thought to learn when you're still learning why your body is getting body hair and how all those hormones change your emotions and thinking, so I will explain it as simple as possible:
Just because someone is explaining a certain problem to you that does not mean that he cannot solve it.
I hope this was simple enough. I think I can try to be more simple for you if required.
I think you're projecting again there kiddo.
He obviously can't solve it, otherwise he'd be laughing his TRIBBLE off in his cruiser everytime anyone shoots at him for more than a few seconds and failing miserably, instead of whining about it like a little girl that didn't get the present she wanted at a birthday party.
Now, I get it, you aren't smart and you're a low end pvp chump who everyone laughs at and you can't understand why, while you simultaneously scream "I am amazing so amazing I don't need to follow advice from people that actually know the game!", but do try to understand the frankly obvious.
If the OP were capable of living through being shot at, he wouldn't be posting his lil whiny rant.
If anything, Escort damage is actually too low for the strength of heals and Resists in this game. Heals are so obscene that you only need 1 solid healer on a given team, who should also be cranking as much dps as physically possible in order for the group to perform optimally. If the OP were of any Skill he would already know this.
Just because someone is explaining a certain problem to you that does not mean that he cannot solve it.
I hope this was simple enough. I think I can try to be more simple for you if required.
Well if you where capable of solving it you would explain to the OP how wrong his thoughts on the game are....
Seeing as instead you seem to mostly agree that Escorts do more dmg then cruisers and sci can heal through... I would draw the logical conclusion that you are NOT capable of solving the problem.
Dmg can be ratched up by good players yes... however healing can be pushed even further.
Healing in this game > Dmg Potential.
In a real match you have to fake heals out, you have to cycle targets.... play against any good team and pound on one target the whole match and see how far you get.
Sophie after you have played this game awhile longer you will understand what people mean when they say I can sleep through that.
Really I can't tell you how many times someone I am teamed with has to go AFK and just puts there ship on follow for awhile... do they get killed... no they don't cause it doesn't take a whole lot to get them out of trouble if someone shoots at them. lol
OP I am not going to be mean or condescending to you in any way... understand that those of us that have been around for a good while have seen these evil escorts / bop / ect treads many times over the last 3 or so years. At this point in the game healing is UBER and super easy to implement... escorts seem more tanky now cause Cryptic has made good heals an option very low in the order of things.... Tac Team 1 RSP 1... Hazards 1... TSS 2... EPTS 1... and you are almost golden these days.
Check out mavs thread on cruiser basics....
In a nut shell though you said... "Honestly I think it would be simpler to tone down that massive burst damage tac captains can pull off, but if not giving a tic-for-tat counter would be nice."
Here are the tic for tac counters....
RSP (even level 1 lasts 10 seconds the length of cannon rapid fire)
Tac Team (every level lasts the same length as cannon rapid fire)
Here are the soft counters...
Emergency Power to Shields.... (You should have a copy of this up at ALL times, think of its resist as a shield cap increase... its to good to not run)
Transfer Shield Strength... (its a 15 second hot heal... that alone will protect you from kinetic dmg for the duration... + it gives you a great extra resist)
If Your engi... Rotate SHield Freq... again a great shield resist.
If your Sci... Sci fleet... another great shield resist.
Armour units... if you don't have 1 neutronium armour get one.... if you can get 2.
Field Generators.... run a few if you can, more shields is never a bad idea.
Sub Space Modulator (from the first devidian mission) its a free resist clicky
Shield Distro Doffs.... Stacks up to 3.... the proc is better if you have a high aux setting
Hazard System Doffs... not as popular but they give brace for impact a nice extra dmg resist... its like strapping on an extra armour unit for 10 seconds when you brace for impact
Brace for Impact... so many people forget they have this... if you loose your shield HIT BFI always... you never know when someone might slip a torpedo or shockwave into your hull... BFI also neuters Tractor Beam Repulsors... really hit BFI and TBR does nothing.
There is a bunch of stuff I am forgetting but I think you get the point... there are SO many ways to negate dmg...... stay tuned I don't have anythinig to do today perhaps I will create a dmg tank rotation thread and explain some of the basics of efficiently* tanking dmg... *popping everything makes you dead... the key is to roll your defense to be tanky all the time.
It's not the most common build, we all know there out there. Most only have a about a 10-20K DPS, but that still kills the biggest ships in seconds if they're flat-footed.
I'm aware being able to do that burns though some cooldown and abilities, but being able to do that means a tac captain has the leeway to be able to laugh it off or run 20-30Km away if it doesn't work. With impunity. If I get in a fight with another carrier, I could lose, but I have fair to even odds I could win? My best bet with a escort? Spam everything I've got now and force them to use their ability to run away.
My request? If you want to feed a button mashers the ability to kill do 20-50K damage in under three seconds? The devs have had way too long to nerf that if they dared. Give engineering and science captains a bigger tanking boost. A Passive bonus to hull strength for engineers, and science captains the ability to partially adapt or automatically debuff damage would be equally overpowered I think.
Honestly I think it would be simpler to tone down that massive burst damage tac captains can pull off, but if not giving a tic-for-tat counter would be nice.
No.
And to anyone that says that any "good" player can live through an alpha 99% of the time, also 'no'. Mostly because that answer is WAY to simplistic and trite. Well and its wrong. Part of an alpha is getting the timing correct. Timed correctly, your out of luck. Timed incorrectly I guess that makes you a 'good' player? Yah no not how that works.
So yes....but no.
Back on planet star trek.....
Hell nothing else really to say, look at ghostyandfrosty he really explains how it is that players are able to withstand those alpha attacks, and really survive in general. and heal. So do all that and your fine. MESS THAT UP and there will be an alpha strike ready to turn you into a gas cloud, in three seconds or less. As advertised.
Comments
As for science officers, I've been neutered by subnucs more times then I can count.
Tactical officers are meant to be damage builds. Because, frankly, that's all they can do.
The problem with toning down the burst power is that if that's all you do then you've only succeeded in rendering the Escorts and Destroyers useless and put the ball in the court of the cruisers again.
As things now the burst power is a necessity to deal with tanky players and yes there are cruisers out there that cannot be killed by 1 person and in fact it's fairly simple to do once you understand the mechanics of the game better.
Long post short, the answer is not to reduce the burst power of escorts, the answer for you is to improve your tanking power as it relates to your build and not change the dps potential of other ships.
Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
its not hard to survive 99% of most of alphas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NorDwm8wk5s <--- when your pugging and without a team to help ya.
And, this^ seems like what Cryptic does best. NERF healing, crusiers, beams, Sci powers, and put excorts on top. Before it was NERF escorts and put something else on the top of the FOTM heap. When the playerbase gets tired of "Escorts Online" (used to be Crusiers Online") then re-NERF everything and make something else OP. All the while planning something for the C-Store that gives back a little of the power for what used to be the norm and sell it at top dollar.
I /agree with the OP. Crusiers and even tanking/healing in general has been made almost moot, or delegated to nothing more than a support profession in PVP gameplay via the NERFs that came just before and with F2P. Crusiers need more tanking/healing. You can kick everything you have and still watch 10K+ shields and 54K+ hull gone in less than 2 seconds. You know, what they had before the NERFs and all the P2W DPS adds in the C-Store since.
This is exactly why I quit PVP gameplay back when the NERFs came out. And since then, we get a dev coming to the PVP forums and saying something to the effect of "we could take PVP out of the game and no1 would even notice". Now, the 64 dollar question is....., "Wonder why?"
this is the person making the most sense so far.
well to be fair, he left.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Fixed a small part of a statement that I felt is actually more correct once more KDF fleets reach tier 2.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I have no problem with escorts being focused on ship killing.
What I have a problem with is there is very little puts up with the damage they hand out, or their ability to retreat with at will if they don't kill something in a few seconds.
A bigger problem with being able to burn through 90K hitpoints in a few seconds, is - even then you have the abilities to survive - it's over in seconds. That's barely enough time to queue something and for the server to acknowledge a command even if you have your figure right on a "I Win" button. Edit: The server will all have tallied 30-70% of your health being gone before most people even see a number roll off the hull.
Even if you don't want to tone down the damage, buff hull or health of non-escorts to give them more then two seconds to respond would be great.
Edit: Better yet, reduces escort hull to 10-15K. Most escort get away with 30-40K when dedicated tanks doesn't have more then 55K and 1/10 the damage.
it sounds like you arent running 2 copies of EPtS1, and hitting the distribute all key. always on shield resistance and always distributing your shields when theres a chance to get shot at will turn even the mightiest alpha strike into only a minor concern. they can be countered with minimal hull damage when you start engaging other resists and heals.
TT is the first thing you should hit, unless you have literally maxed out shield power, hitpointas and resistance, you need TT. TSS lasts as long as your average alpha strike, it lasts the same amount of time as cannon abilities. that will give you a strong temporary resistance and heal over time. auxiliary to structural is great too for healing any initial hull damage that got through, and resisting any more.
they may seem daunting and unmanageable, but they will just become a boringly common thing you have to deal with, and you get very good at dealing with them.
Most cruisers don't have the capability of trapping a decent escort pilot. That's ship design and a good one imo. Sci ships and other escorts are there to apply TBs and debuff movements/evasives. On the other hand a "tank" cruiser build shouldn't be dieing to escorts given the number of defense boosts now available. In otherwords it's a standoff.
In fact defense has been boosted far more in since F2P than damage, you even pointed out significant ship hull boosts for most ships sans Raiders. This means there's less need for cross repairs/resistance buffs and beam array cruisers are less effective in their pressure DPS role. Lowering escort damage won't address the issue you're having. Raising damage across the board will.
Also, there's been many ways to boost power level significantly since F2P this helps defense, reduces the need for some of the Eng Captain power mgt abilities, and even allows for people to avoid spec'ing as much into Eng power skills freeing up Skill points in other areas. One way to address this is to raise the weapon power cap and increase power drains in other areas while having working counters/mitigations.
For avoiding spike damage deaths and recovering from spike combos the key is to chain your resistant buffs and HP repair abilities. Cruisers should be able to prebuff w/EPTS or if nothing else run max shield power until you have a good reason to use another power preset.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Dear OP. I suggest you read Mavs Cruiser and Sci threads. If you can't survive after reading and following the advice given there, just /uninstall your game and save us the trouble of your baseless knowledge less ranting.
I sleep through alpha strikes, even delivered by the best of the best if I have any defenses at all running at the time.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=280501
As far as "Surviving the impossible!" goes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CPuXgrLwoQ You'll notice me eating several alpha runs there, in a far lighter ship than the one you are flying which has access to much lower level and lower total # of heals. It's called Shield Damage Resistance and Tac Team. You want to boost those. And not run stupid TRIBBLE like Boarding party in your engineering slots.
Cruisers are better suited for team heals these days.
I use to fly a cruiser and could hold with the best of them but that was 2 or 3 seasons ago.
Every now and then I take her out but Fighters/Escorts prove far more effective at both dmg and mobility tanking.
Tac Escorts>all
Good Tac Escorts are harder to kill than good cruisers or sci ships.
They cannot be killed by anything other than an other good escort (or maybe a very good tac cruiser) so this means if you are a sci ship or cruiser you cannot even drive them off, without support you cannot out heal the DPS so you will die to a good player.
I has gotten so silly that when pugging or even as a team, the weak link to kill is the poor cruiser healer
We need an effective* damage/offensive skill increase for sci ships and engy cruisers.
Beams Arrays need a bit of love too generally.
*I know you can put big score on the board with tbr, transphasics, grav well, etc but this isn't that effective unless used in a specific team set up even then you'd be much much better with a cannon using escort.
Fed Random-Sci Monte-Eng Monte Banks-Tac
Klingon Warfarin-Sci Gamble-Tac
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
How I usually deal with a Tactical/Escort alpha attack run? is I fall asleep. I don?t even have to shoot back unless they are a Science captain in an Escort. Sub-Nucleonic Beam is woefully frightening!!!
Easiest way to tank an average player in a High DPS Escort is too continuously rotate Tactical Team-I every 15 seconds and continuously rotate EPTS-II or III every 30 seconds with EPTW-I every 15 seconds.
I recommend also that you need to have a minimum of 100 subsystem power level in shield; this includes power gained from EPTS as with this power level you gain a passive +35% all energy damage resistance to shields; not to mention increased shield regeneration. Also remember, even with TT-I, continue to re-distribute shields to the shield facing taking damage.
I also recommend setting two Key-binds for Offense and Defense. Switch from Offense to Defense when your overall shield strength gets below half. My presets are:
Offense 75/75/25/25
Defense 25/75/25/75
Just remember, no ship is invulnerable! And while the escorts seemingly can run away from the fight, just remember that PVP isn?t designed with 1 verse 1 in mind.
I did not mean to mock the poster. I simply meant, that the damage that a Tactical/Escort does against my rotating defense is nothing to "wake me" or alter me from pressing a single button as my Re-Distribute shields, EPTS-III, EPTW-I and Tactical team are all set to the same key-bind. Meaning all I do is press that one button over and over to have all of those abilities rotate continuously.
See above comment on that.
See my first response. I only have to press a single button to rotate and activate all of those abilities. Yawn!
I didn't even comment on how I would deal damage back myself. If you must know... I use EPS and Red Matter capacitor. I have MKXII [ACCx2][dmg] weapons.
Sustaining fire on the target will force them to eventually withdraw; especially since they are not getting past my shields . My average DPV on my beam weapons is 1,075.
And even if they do get past a shield facing. My passive hull resistances sits at a healthy 51% before AUX-SIF III is even used.
So in a nut shell, I do not agree with the OP that Cruisers are having trouble tanking a single escort. I do agree that Cruisers have a very hard time destroying Escorts due to their high defense ratting. However, PVP is designed around two or more classes working together.
The reaction time required in order to out tank an Escorts damage is so pitiful that I can do it, while drunk and can practically do it in my sleep. /faceroll keyboard and still heal team mates. Pressing 1 button every 30 seconds EPTS, and another every 15. (TT) Is not difficult in the least. Those two buttons right there on their own make a mockery of dps. Should I some how get further into trouble I can simply press a third button which also is good for 30 seconds, Rotate Shield Frequency.
4 buttons, in 30 seconds At Most. If you can't manage that, you should /uninstall the game. Now, I'll one up it, and add a fifth button that I constantly hit, called Distribute Shields, particularly in the gaps of TT coverage. With such a ludicrously high resist, (125 shield power + EPTS2 is in the neighborhood of 54 percent SDR on it's lonesome. if RSF is going I'm over pegged at the fully 75 percent SDR)
Now should something untoward happen and I get Sub Nuked and I'm already using RSF, I'll add 2 more buttons to the mix. Shield Battery, and Brace for impact. We're up to 6 buttons. Wooow sooo impossible to manage! OMG! If I some how get nuked again, I can just pop Reverse Shield Polarity and be covered another 10 seconds. 7 buttons. in 30 seconds. And that's if you get double sub nuked. If that's not being able to virtually fall asleep at the wheel for you, then you need some Uppers to raise your reflex speed.
In that time frame I'm also healing team mates, which is generally a little more frantic, as I have to manage Hazard, Transfer Shield Strength, Extend shields. I can still heal others while being shot at. Because my SDR is ludicrous. I'm also in that time hitting my chron mine spam button, and dumping warp plasma to snare enemy ships so my team mates can vape targets.
Infact, EPTS is always running for me anyway, simply so I can keep my Extends shields at maximum ability. So you might as well take those 2 off the list. Most people? They use Keybinds. so 4 of those buttons just got turned into one that they can constantly hit, easy.
Cause you know, I'm not a dumb TRIBBLE who builds a want to be zombie ship who can't even bring himself to use EPTS "cause everyone else does it and I am better than everyone else!" unlike some people in this thread.
http://postimage.org/image/53n1iziyt/full/ Here is the difference between knowing what you're doing and not. Well over three quarters of my heals could be attributed to throwing to 2 other ships near me. Those two ships were so in competent that they died, because they would A run out of my heal range, B not balance their shields (so I had to feed them my Tac Team) C would not use their Captain abilities what so ever (particularly the other engineer), D one of them was so stupid he was a Tac Starcruiser loaded up with Boarding party. By the way, the Tac wasn't the guy that came in second on damage on my team. That was the other eng. Crudelis and Dude both are top notch captains. Notice, 0 deaths on my part. And the only reason we didn't kill anyone, is because the other two captains on my team (the third warped when his BP didn't do anything to anyone ever), would not A Focus Fire, or B use any significant damage ability. They literally could not kill me, and it wasn't for lack of trying. Even 2 on 1 I was still healing the other two people on my team. (and I was the only one throwing heals) They were an Escort, and a sci ship on the opposing team.
See above last paragraph. It's pitifully easy to out do DPS in this game. I have fallen asleep while tanking up before. Because 30 seconds of nigh invincibility is a very long time. Maybe you should learn how to pvp so you don't burn every single heal you have just to survive one ship shooting you?
Also lil sophie, don't make up new words. It's very unbecoming.
Also, with the way complex binds work, you can take those 4 buttons down to 1, and set them to Space bar. If you can't rest your eyes while smashing a single button constantly (that you are smashing already or should be) you should probably re examine if games are for you or not.
Bored, fall asleep... figure of speech mate! Don't get too caught up in such things! I can speak very plainly if you would like, however, I might get bored at that as well.
The key bind helps me focus on other things, such as how to time my offensive abilities. They also allow me some freedom to think about whom to heal or buff out of my nearest team mates with AUX-SIF III, Extend Shields I, Hazard emitters and even Tactical Team; hell, I may even ESP them instead of myself?
Key binds are great. They give the player breathing room to focus on other things. Such as switching between Offense and Defense power presets, healing other team mates, finding targets of opportunity around your ship, enjoying the games battle graphics and etc. Who really wants to sit and watch and wait to press that EPTW-I precisely when it needs to be pressed anyway? Not me!
That is not true, I could just use consumable dual batteries to get the same if not better effect and in less time too. I just don't like buying or making them because I?m lazy. The RMC is neat, but it isn?t a hinge of my build. The hinge of a good cruiser is TT/EPTS. Without TT and EPTS, don?t even bother with PVP.
I think you're projecting again there kiddo.
He obviously can't solve it, otherwise he'd be laughing his TRIBBLE off in his cruiser everytime anyone shoots at him for more than a few seconds and failing miserably, instead of whining about it like a little girl that didn't get the present she wanted at a birthday party.
Now, I get it, you aren't smart and you're a low end pvp chump who everyone laughs at and you can't understand why, while you simultaneously scream "I am amazing so amazing I don't need to follow advice from people that actually know the game!", but do try to understand the frankly obvious.
If the OP were capable of living through being shot at, he wouldn't be posting his lil whiny rant.
If anything, Escort damage is actually too low for the strength of heals and Resists in this game. Heals are so obscene that you only need 1 solid healer on a given team, who should also be cranking as much dps as physically possible in order for the group to perform optimally. If the OP were of any Skill he would already know this.
Well if you where capable of solving it you would explain to the OP how wrong his thoughts on the game are....
Seeing as instead you seem to mostly agree that Escorts do more dmg then cruisers and sci can heal through... I would draw the logical conclusion that you are NOT capable of solving the problem.
Dmg can be ratched up by good players yes... however healing can be pushed even further.
Healing in this game > Dmg Potential.
In a real match you have to fake heals out, you have to cycle targets.... play against any good team and pound on one target the whole match and see how far you get.
Sophie after you have played this game awhile longer you will understand what people mean when they say I can sleep through that.
Really I can't tell you how many times someone I am teamed with has to go AFK and just puts there ship on follow for awhile... do they get killed... no they don't cause it doesn't take a whole lot to get them out of trouble if someone shoots at them. lol
OP I am not going to be mean or condescending to you in any way... understand that those of us that have been around for a good while have seen these evil escorts / bop / ect treads many times over the last 3 or so years. At this point in the game healing is UBER and super easy to implement... escorts seem more tanky now cause Cryptic has made good heals an option very low in the order of things.... Tac Team 1 RSP 1... Hazards 1... TSS 2... EPTS 1... and you are almost golden these days.
Check out mavs thread on cruiser basics....
In a nut shell though you said...
"Honestly I think it would be simpler to tone down that massive burst damage tac captains can pull off, but if not giving a tic-for-tat counter would be nice."
Here are the tic for tac counters....
RSP (even level 1 lasts 10 seconds the length of cannon rapid fire)
Tac Team (every level lasts the same length as cannon rapid fire)
Here are the soft counters...
Emergency Power to Shields.... (You should have a copy of this up at ALL times, think of its resist as a shield cap increase... its to good to not run)
Transfer Shield Strength... (its a 15 second hot heal... that alone will protect you from kinetic dmg for the duration... + it gives you a great extra resist)
If Your engi... Rotate SHield Freq... again a great shield resist.
If your Sci... Sci fleet... another great shield resist.
Armour units... if you don't have 1 neutronium armour get one.... if you can get 2.
Field Generators.... run a few if you can, more shields is never a bad idea.
Sub Space Modulator (from the first devidian mission) its a free resist clicky
Shield Distro Doffs.... Stacks up to 3.... the proc is better if you have a high aux setting
Hazard System Doffs... not as popular but they give brace for impact a nice extra dmg resist... its like strapping on an extra armour unit for 10 seconds when you brace for impact
Brace for Impact... so many people forget they have this... if you loose your shield HIT BFI always... you never know when someone might slip a torpedo or shockwave into your hull... BFI also neuters Tractor Beam Repulsors... really hit BFI and TBR does nothing.
There is a bunch of stuff I am forgetting but I think you get the point... there are SO many ways to negate dmg...... stay tuned I don't have anythinig to do today perhaps I will create a dmg tank rotation thread and explain some of the basics of efficiently* tanking dmg... *popping everything makes you dead... the key is to roll your defense to be tanky all the time.
No.
And to anyone that says that any "good" player can live through an alpha 99% of the time, also 'no'. Mostly because that answer is WAY to simplistic and trite. Well and its wrong. Part of an alpha is getting the timing correct. Timed correctly, your out of luck. Timed incorrectly I guess that makes you a 'good' player? Yah no not how that works.
So yes....but no.
Back on planet star trek.....
Hell nothing else really to say, look at ghostyandfrosty he really explains how it is that players are able to withstand those alpha attacks, and really survive in general. and heal. So do all that and your fine. MESS THAT UP and there will be an alpha strike ready to turn you into a gas cloud, in three seconds or less. As advertised.
Peace and happy flying!
And sopho! show us your body hair you animal!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0CyOAO8y0
There's some theme music for you!