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VA engineer: Armitage or MVAE?

droidloverdroidlover Member Posts: 26 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Federation Discussion
As stated in the title, I'm Vice Admiral engineer. I currently fly (have always flown cruisers) a tac oddy with saucer sep and work bees. I can tank like nobody's business but have been trying to work on my Wpn loadout. Used to have 7 beams and a quantum. But lately I've been running dual beams up front and I like the increased forward damage spike. I've probably gotten as much escort-like effectiveness out of this ship and, even though saucer sep helps tremendously, it just doesn't have the speed, turn or fwd damage I'm trying to achieve (and for some reason now crave:rolleyes:). So I've decided to go for an escort.

I've done a lot of reading on the forums concerning the different types of escorts and their advantages/disadvantages. And I have whittled them down to either the Armitage or the MVAE. So below are my questions on each and would like some constructive feedback.

Armitage:
I like the fact that this ship has the point defense system. I have the PDS from the Thunderchild and I love it. I thought that I read that the Armitage could not field both PDSs on the same ship, yet I've read several people on the forums who say they have done just that. Can it slot both PDSs or was their a change?

I have never run a carrier, but find the launch bay an intriguing bonus for this ship. I was thinking the shield repair units would be a nice heal for an escort. But that might just be my engineer tanking ability talking. I've also read several people swearing by the Danube Runabouts with their torps and tractor beams. Are these the only fighters I should be considering? Or am I missing something? I'm also concerned about the additional controls for the fighters. My power tray is maxed out as it is. Will the additional carrier commands force me to switch between rows on the power tray in order to use them?

I like to run a Lt Com and Lt Science boff on my Oddy, but that's not possible here. I do see that the Tac boffs will offset the science pwers I use though (ph,fp,gw). The LtCom eng boff on the armitage will help make me feel more at home tanking in this escort.

MVAE:
I am a bit confused concerning the multi-vector ability. Can you pick any of the three pieces to use? If so, I can only assume that most people choose the Beta Command with the max speed, turn and wpn power. Or am I missing a tactical way to use this? Or do people even use this on a consistent basis? How fast and manueverable is this ship (before and after separation) compared to the Armitage?

Being able to tank the heck out of a cruiser, I am also worried about survivability in this ship. It only has a Lt. eng station. Is it as fragile as it looks? And is a crew of 50 (while separated) a serious drawback compared to the Armitage's 200. My Oddy always seems to lose crew at a steady pace despite efforts to curtail the drop (force fields and new nurse doff). Is this even more detrimental on a ship with a low crew complement?

I do like the fact that it has a Lt Com Science station. That definitely allows me to use a few old tricks such as gravity well or feedback pulse(nice with FAW, but not sure with cannon build).

Loadout:
I've read several threads (there are many) on escort loadouts. I will probably run it with 3 cannons (dual or dual hvy?) and a quantum torp in the front. For the aft, I'm thinking two turrets and a mine (which one?). All energy wpns will be polaron (borg mk XII), as I still like running the Jem'Hadar engines and deflector for the Dominion Synergy bonus. I use max number of polaron phase modulators in the tac console slots. I also always slot the Borg console and the PDS from the Thunderchild in my ships (again don't know if both PDSs will work on HEC). I also use a Field Generator along with a Mk XII Maco shield.

Closing:
Thanks for reading my longish post. I appreciate any and all contributions. I look forward to hearing your feedback and suggestions with earnest. And I can't wait to climb into my new escort and turn the hulls of my enemies' ships into melted slag. :D
Post edited by droidlover on

Comments

  • krayuskorianiskrayuskorianis Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    The Point Defense System is a Phaser, the one on the Armitage is a Photon Torpedo Point Defense System. You can use both on the ship.

    I fly an Armitage, great ship, love it. It has a hangar bay for any pet you want, comes in handy doing the STF's with Danube Runabouts for the tractor beam, as well as PvP, Klingons hate it.

    Great DPS ship, love it. I'd highly recommend the Armitage over other Escorts. It also allows oyu to use a Reverse Shield Polarity ability on an engineering Boff for better protection.

    I have never flown the Multi-Vector Assault Escort, so I can't tell you about that ship. (I never took it either at Lv. 40)
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  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    droidlover wrote: »

    Closing:
    Thanks for reading my longish post. I appreciate any and all contributions. I look forward to hearing your feedback and suggestions with earnest. And I can't wait to climb into my new escort and turn the hulls of my enemies' ships into melted slag. :D

    No problem, it makes people feel better about helping you that you've put in some effort on your own to make this decision and now want clarifications.

    To answer some of your questions, the fighter commands live above your power levels and don't need to be added to your power tray. Runabouts are the "best" because they are the all around heavy hitters, the right combination of power and toughness. Other fighters are better at specific task but the runabouts will perform reliably. For example I like peregrines for the DPS burst of 6 quantum torpedoes and intercept prowess but they die to AOE spam and warp core breaches, things a runabout does not care about as much.

    As for the MVAE, people separate the MVAE all the time and for good reason, the pets are decent damage dealers and will help marginalize things like BFAW. Which command you use determines which piece you pilot, the escort section is the most commonly one used because the Alpha(eng) piece and Gamma(sci) piece aren't that powerful in comparison when it comes to DPS.

    Crew doesn't mean squat for escorts, even less so in PVP because of powers that will kill an entire ship's crew in one application. To me the ship seems more fragile than an Armitage with about the same set up. In order to match or possibly exceed Armitage levels of toughness you need HE3 or TS3 which prevents using the "fun" sci powers outside of PVE.

    If I had to pick between the two I'd take the Armitage, the Emergency power and Aux2str cycling can make it a tough little ship, the hangers are for more than carrying around a wing of Runabouts and it has the torpedo consul for a finishing blow/CC emergency.

    The MVAE is very nice but the Gamma module pet seems underwhelming compared to the other two modules and Armitage pets, it should have been given support powers(JS2, TSS2, HE2,Tractor Beam 2 or tachyon beam 2) instead of the AP:delta and target subsystems. As is the bonus aux is just a waste for the pet and not very valuable to the player.

    Remember both ships give up a Lt. Cmdr Tac power for their neat tricks and you keep feeling the need to go farther and farther down the road of the escort, might as well get a Patrol escort(8$/120K dil) or a Defiant-R(20$,25$). They might be too squishy for your taste now but there is the end of the road you're traveling.
  • droidloverdroidlover Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    razellis wrote: »
    To answer some of your questions, the fighter commands live above your power levels and don't need to be added to your power tray.
    Good to know.
    Remember both ships give up a Lt. Cmdr Tac power for their neat tricks and you keep feeling the need to go farther and farther down the road of the escort, might as well get a Patrol escort(8$/120K dil) or a Defiant-R(20$,25$). They might be too squishy for your taste now but there is the end of the road you're traveling.

    The Defiant-R was third on my list. The reason I opted for the MVAE over it was due to the Lt. Com sci station. But after giving it a closer look, the real end game is in the 'Fleet' version of ships. The Defiant-R and a fleet ship module would cost the same as an Armitage . Or cheaper if I just get the 4 modules and fore go the cloak. And the Fleet Defiant-R has 5 tac consoles. Hmm? Something to think about...tough choice.
  • razellisrazellis Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    droidlover wrote: »
    Good to know.


    The Defiant-R was third on my list. The reason I opted for the MVAE over it was due to the Lt. Com sci station. But after giving it a closer look, the real end game is in the 'Fleet' version of ships. The Defiant-R and a fleet ship module would cost the same as an Armitage . Or cheaper if I just get the 4 modules and fore go the cloak. And the Fleet Defiant-R has 5 tac consoles. Hmm? Something to think about...tough choice.

    Considering the fleet versions is probably pretty wise if you are in an active fleet that's advancing at a good pace. If you're gonna check out the fleet versions use the space docks. The wiki's have some errors in them, the Fleet Armitage gets +10% hull, +10% shield and an extra sci consul, wiki only documents the hull increase.

    Remember the fleet modules don't give account unlocks like the normal c-store ships and the fleet ships don't come with the counsels. It's better to save up the EC in game for one more fleet module from the exchange then to buy four fleet modules for one ship on one character.

    P.S. I eyeballed the Percent bonuses.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'm saving up (at 2100 Zen currently) for the Armitage for my Engineer captain. Seems the best combination of Tanking and DPS for a Eng capt, IMO, short of the Fleet Patrol Escort. Since I already have two Fed chars, I look more towards account unlocks. I have the standard Patrol Escort on my Eng currently.

    For a 9 console escort, I'd run no more than 2 universal consoles. While you could run Phaser and Photon Point Defense consoles along with the Borg Assimilated module, you'd cut into your survivability(Eng/Sci console spots), which is already limited in an escort and/or cut into your DPS(Tac console spots), which is one of the main reasons to get a escort in the first place. I was watching a video of a Armitage with far too many Uni consoles for my tastes, and he exploded if an Elite Cube (standard, not Tac) looked at him funny, and dealt comparatively little DPS compared to his team mates.

    As for the Jem'hadar set, I'd recommend dropping it in favor of the Borg 3-piece set (console, deflector, and engine) with Mk XI or XII MACO shields if you want your survivability to be anything like a cruiser's, which thanks to your Eng capt abilities is mostly doable. Dominion Synergy doesn't matter much when you have 4 Tac consoles boosting weapons(except on a Jem Bug).
  • ariseaboveariseabove Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I have both ships and if I was going to choose between them I would go an Armitage, in fact my MVAE has been gathering dust for quite awhile now.

    Only positive I can say about the MVAE is it has a 3rd sci boff station which its nice to have such ability's as gravity well on an escort.

    It feels as though the Devs need to do some more work to the MVAE it just seems a little disappointing compared to other ships in its class like the cooldown for separation is way to long compared to the cooldown for the Armitages point defense and the animation when you die when separated looks utterly TRIBBLE, basically you blow up in the section your in then you join back up and blow up again.

    Where as the Armitage for an Engineer works great you can even tank in it lol and its dps for an Engineer is quite good well depending how you set your ship up.

    I've been toying around with my Fed Engineer of late, I've been experimenting with the Armitage with an Aegis set armed with the phaser quad cannons with some duals and photon torps, seems to work very well in pve however I don't like my chances in pvp using an Aegis set lol.
  • eurialoeurialo Member Posts: 667 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I fly/flyed hermitage, MVAE, AE+multivector-module


    MVAE: good ship, high damage, good resistance thanks to it's sci BOFF, expecially using HE3

    AE + multivector-module: not so resisten like the MVAE, but it can deal a greater damage... I left MVAE and actually one of my toon use this combination.

    harmitage: I use this ship with another of my toons (equiped with runabout)... a good ship, my build is not so powerfull like AE+multivector module, but runabout are really insidious and dangerous. I like also this.


    To be onest, none of the 3 ships is absolutelly better than the others... much depend on your build (expecially the way you'll use the lt commander sci ability, or the way you'll use the hangar)... different ship/build different "fighting style".

    However, my favorite is AE+MVA module... I love ship separation and using b-attack mode!
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  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    personally the only one of these I have used is the prommy, I have also faced a prommy in pvp I find it fun to play and with a few refinements to the same build hard to face down I am in fact saving for one of my own, each vector has a different use to the player from my experience Alpha for example can get you out of some sticky situations, Beta gives you a slight speed/turn boost and a weapon power boost aswell making it quite formidable the Gamma vector also gives a boost to aux power giving those science abilities a little extra punch, and the AI isn't too bad either (although it does make stupid moves from time to time such as trying it on with a cube in CSE) but all in all not a bad piece of kit.

    I have also faced an Armitage in in pvp it too is a nasty piece of work, if used right perhaps the most devastating (and overpowered) escort in the federation fleet however if the pilot makes an error in judgement a well played excelsior will give it a very hard time indeed other than that i'm afraid there isn't much I can tell you about these two.

    My advice is to go pvp them, see what people who play them do, and if you can ask a friend if you can 'test play' theirs and get a feel for them before you buy
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