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Where are the rest of the Fleet Elite weapons?

guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Federation Discussion
No compression pistols. No dual pistols.
Many weapons only come in Phaser, rather than having the Disruptor option.

Not to mention that the SHeal proc is entirely useless, averaging out to 2 healing per damage blip, or about 1.5 to 5 healing per second, depending on weapon. The disruptor SDisrupt proc looks interesting, at least, but the SHeal is useless.

Seriously, who came up with these? The Advanced weapons are vastly superior to the Elites, at least where Phasers are concerned, and many weapon types are simply missing from the Elite selection, even if I did want to buy them.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Weapons are missing from advanced or have broken useless mods like mines so I am not surprised.

    Sheal looks possible overpowered to me, not useless. Boost your own shield resistance use the other heal mods and get 5 to 10 shields a second regen. I can see ways to beat 30+ shield a second regen which added with 50%+ resistance is a lot.
  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Testing indicates that the SDisrupt is useless, too: it doesn't proc until enemies are so low on health that 1-2 shots would finish them, anyway.
  • pug02pug02 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Sheal looks possible overpowered to me, not useless. Boost your own shield resistance use the other heal mods and get 5 to 10 shields a second regen. I can see ways to beat 30+ shield a second regen which added with 50%+ resistance is a lot.
    SHeal is weak. A Maco Shield Charge does 590 shield heal over 5 seconds for a non engineer. With an engineer that has Repairs it can be over 1000 shield heal. You can get that every 45 seconds and every 20 seconds with a tactical initiative. To rely on a 5% proc for a potential shield heal is sad. On top of that, if I was going to go with a Proc, I want a fast firing weapon such as a compression pistol, which is missing. Keep in mind shields are only 50% effective. That means if you have 400 shields it only takes 200 damage to drop it. So it requires buffing up with shield resistances to make your shields more effective. A shield regen of 30 only results in 15 countered damage. With the new weapons out there, 15 damage equates to about 5% countered damage.

    @Cryptic:
    Wow, Horrible doesn't cover it. In this case we can say we haven't just hit bottom, we actually have started digging. If this is what Elite looks like, then why keep working on Starbases. It looks like Starbase Tier 2 is all you need to get anything you would need.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Incidentally, here is how you take something good, and make it better.

    First you take the good thing.

    Then you add something more to it.

    You don't take something away, and add something else to it. That's making it different, not better. This is not rocket science. In this case, different just happens to mean worse.

    EXAMPLE! Fleet advanced weapons are: [dmg]x3[choice of fourth attribute]
    So make Elite weapons: [dmg]x4[choice of fifth attribute] or [dmgx3][choice of fourth attribute]x2.

    Not possible because of tech limitations to 4 attributes? Then give it something else to make it effective, like a special bonus attribute similar to set pieces, while keeping the same stats as the advanced weapon.
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    guriphu wrote: »
    Incidentally, here is how you take something good, and make it better.

    First you take the good thing.

    Then you add something more to it.

    You don't take something away, and add something else to it. That's making it different, not better. This is not rocket science. In this case, different just happens to mean worse.

    I would actually take your example and adjust it in a more realistic way:

    Instead of [Dmg]x3+[Modifier]+[Modifier] for elite weapons, id make the progressions from Advanced like this:

    Advanced:
    [Dmg]x3+[Modifier of choice]

    Elite:
    [Dmg]x2+[Modifer of Choice]+[Modifier of Choice]

    Now granted, there are likely a ****ton of combinations, but as far as I am concerned, and as far as ground combat is concerned, ANY modifier is in improvement over [Dmg].
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    EDITEd will change in min
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    pug02 wrote: »
    SHeal is weak. A Maco Shield Charge does 590 shield heal over 5 seconds for a non engineer. With an engineer that has Repairs it can be over 1000 shield heal. You can get that every
    Since when does damage do double damage to shields? I have never seen anything to say shields are half as effective. The reason I think Sheal is possibley effective is you can stack it. Put it on your weapon, shield a sec on shield and armour and you have the same heal per second as Maco Shield only your shield heal is constant and passive. Plus it stacks with maco shield.

    I agree by its self its useless but stacked it might be ok.
  • guriphuguriphu Member Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    To clarify: [SHeal] is a 5% proc chance on hitting the enemy with the gun to grant 40 shield healing to Self. It is the exact opposite of constant and passive, and it cannot be stacked.
  • pug02pug02 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Since when does damage do double damage to shields? I have never seen anything to say shields are half as effective.

    [Combat (Self)] X's Arcwave Setting dealt 373 (274) shield damage to you.
    [Combat (Self)] X deals 453 (991) Plasma Damage to you with Arcwave Setting.

    Shields (Dmg/hit): 373/274 (73% effective)
    Health (Dmg/hit): 453/717 (63% effective = 37% resistance) Flank shot

    The shield in this example is only 73% effective. This is a shield that has a resistance on it already. You will often see numbers that are much closer to 50%. Since this was a flank shot my armor with 44% resistance was only giving me 37% resistance.

    Shield tanking on the ground is an art form. It requires quite a bit of stacking to be good at it and the cooldowns on this abilities are brutal and quite often only gives you 15 seconds of full shield tanking. You can stretch it to 20 seconds with a loss in resistance. You need the help of a well spec tactical officer to stretch it to 30 seconds. With very good timing you can maybe make it 45 seconds.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    pug02 wrote: »
    [Combat (Self)] X's Arcwave Setting dealt 373 (274) shield damage to you.
    [Combat (Self)] X deals 453 (991) Plasma Damage to you with Arcwave Setting.

    Shields (Dmg/hit): 373/274 (73% effective)
    Health (Dmg/hit): 453/717 (63% effective = 37% resistance) Flank shot

    The shield in this example is only 73% effective. This is a shield that has a resistance on it already. You will often see numbers that are much closer to 50%. Since this was a flank shot my armor with 44% resistance was only giving me 37% resistance.

    Shield tanking on the ground is an art form. It requires quite a bit of stacking to be good at it and the cooldowns on this abilities are brutal and quite often only gives you 15 seconds of full shield tanking. You can stretch it to 20 seconds with a loss in resistance. You need the help of a well spec tactical officer to stretch it to 30 seconds. With very good timing you can maybe make it 45 seconds.
    I just went finish some testing and I do not see what you are talking about.

    My basic shield was 100% effective and my normal shield was 110% effective. 4 different weapon types tested and none of them did extra damage to shields.

    Perhaps you are looking at your numbers the wrong way around. Hit 373/274 damage after shield resistance?
  • pug02pug02 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I have a correction to make. I was looking at a scenario that was different. I will explain what we found in a second. Shields are a 100% effective with a 10% bleed through.

    [Combat (Self)] X's Beam Setting dealt 56 (31) shield damage to you.
    [Combat (Self)] X deals 3 (63) Disruptor Damage to you with Beam Setting.

    [Combat (Self)] X's Beam Setting dealt 57 (56) shield damage to you.
    [Combat (Self)] X deals 6 (63) Disruptor Damage to you with Beam Setting.

    In the first hit I was wearing armor. In the second one I wasn't wearing any armor. The first line has the resistance calculated for bleed through in brackets. The second line has the gun damage in brackets.

    If you get flank damage your resistance is lowered dramatically and this was giving me lower values for the shield calculations. pottsey5g thanks for correcting me on this.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • omegashotgunomegashotgun Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    the advanced weapons are superior at this time, cryptic this makes no sense, all the grinding and the old ones are better, please fix this, just crazy.
  • skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    the advanced weapons are superior at this time, cryptic this makes no sense, all the grinding and the old ones are better, please fix this, just crazy.


    I'm not sure making the advanced elite weapons is the best way to go, I much prefer them to be alternatives. That said it doesn't seem the next tier of weapons are even at the same level. I think we're seeying the spreadsheet strike again, they've assigned a certain value to the shield heal and for now it would appear they're overvaluing it.
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