Bit out of the blue, but this keeps running through my head with KDF ships in STO.
They lack a personality or a uniqueness, or something that makes them special.. (going on the free ones mainly).
This is how i think at least:
Start at level 20
Choices:
Bird of prey, Raptor, K'tinga
Level 30
Similar looking Bop, Similar raptor, Vorcha
Level 40
Another similar Bop, Another similar raptor, Neg'var, Vorcha, Vo'quv
I know that klingons dont build for fashion rather functionality, but when leveling up its like Im not even changing ships (assuming you are a raider only or raptor only), i dont think of my ships when i was leveling up.. at all. My fed toons? hell yeah, i remeber the aggro i had in my akira, the fun nacelle set up of my heavy cruiser, my lovable reliable USS Maria (light cruiser).
Alright KDF can get some awesome and a bit unfairly advantaged ships from the C-store, but even so, the gorn ships look very similar, the orions admittedly variable, and nausican like spikey fish.. yeah space fish

.
Heck even when it comes to fighter/shuttle there is such a limited choice it lacks any interest.
3choices. ('free' we have just 1)
I hate my toron shuttles. And toju's ability isnt going to get me to buy it from the c-store anytime soon

Federation, 10choices. (2/3 free depending)
There is only so much variety on toons in little ships in the sense you can call them a different name. (There are PLENTY of carrier pets which could [i assume] easily implemented into small playable craft)
Customization for KDF is also laughable, we can change paint jobs for the most part, or if we get lucky a costume (no mix/match) ((such as k'tinga)). Again yes kdf function over aestitic, but still

So what are your opinions,
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The next problem is that you get a ship and thats about it, you can't really do much to it. Change the paint a little, but that's about it. Most free Fed ships have three different styles that you can mix and match from, not the KDF, and often when they do get the choice to do a mix and match, they have to pay for the other option. The Feds have additional choices they have to pay for as well, but they start out with alot more choices than the KDF ships.
Then they wonder why KDF population is in the crapper...
This is only half true, most people I know care less for the functionality of the vessel than they do its actual looks. Most people want what they see as a cool looking ship. Sure we can make a Bird of Prey fairly unique, but it doesn't look that way and when you are staring at it all day it makes a HUGE difference. The problem is we want variety in looks just as the Federation gets.
I thought the same thing...A dinner plate attached to a couple tampon applicators.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpfbJLLbczs
And from then on, Fed captains everywhere could never hold their heads quite as high again.
Quoted for truth. KDF has warships. Federation has... see above. (I still have hope my Andorian captain will one day command a Kumari)
In reality, the D7 was the last pure Klingon ship, with designs since that point being Romulan/Klingon hybrids designed for shorter service lives and higher firepower output. The Klingons kept the basic D7 design to base their new ships on, as well as the BOP developed with the Romulans, but most of the classes from that point were just newer versions of what had already been built. Thus, most Klingon ships are based on a D7 or BOP configuration, leaving them all feeling 'the same'.
Of course, the KDF is dominated by Klingon designs in much the same way Starfleet is dominated by Human/Terran classes. Other races' designs are in service, but the Klingons and Humans are the engineers who make the star fleets of both empires run, so almost all of the ships in the two fleets seem to have the same characteristics and priorities in their builds..
Precisely. KDF ships LOOK like weapons, they often LOOK dangerous and something you'd rather not fight. Only Fed ship I can think of that has a similar feel is maybe a particularly nasty-looking Defiant. Too many smooth, rounded edges on Fed ships. . .they're not really built to be out-and-out warships.
The thing about Klingon ships dominating the KDF fleet is that it makes sense. It's the KLINGON EMPIRE, ruled by KLINGONS. All subjugated races are supposed to be lesser in status within the Empire. The Empire is not a 'federation' of races, as the game would make it appear. The Klingons obtain new technology, and incorporate it into their ship designs. . .'re-using' ships from subjugated races in their military isn't their usual approach.
Whereas with the human designs dominating the Federation, that doesn't make as much sense. . .since the Federation is supposed to incorporate everyone's sensibilities into the fleet, according to their multiculturalism approach. The fact that humans dominate the Federation doesn't make sense, and only exists because that's how TOS operated (due to it being both the 60's, as well as a low-budget show).
Unlike the soul-less Fed designs, KDF ones have a certain feeling in them which makes you actually either grow to love or hate your ship.
Only if you as a player take the time and spirit to put a personality in them, but from the basic standpoint, they have a huge lacking of customization in comparison to practically every Federation ship (I think only three Federation ships have the same limited cosmetic customization that the majority of the KDF ships do).
True, the options are rather spartan (or outright nonexistent in some cases). Each on their own tho, so far I've been (mostly) fine with what there is - except that my Kar'fi'd need a bit more tuning options...:cool:
Yes you can covert and get free zen but still we need more free choices.
I agree with everything you have said EXCEPT for what was highlighted in red...Klingon ships in fact, are extremely reliable and last longer than any federation ship does, also they can continue to run/operate far longer without routine maintenance than any federation ship type. One of their hallmarks being durability.
The Klingon fleet is actually comprised of many different houses/families ships all joined together to form said fleet. Quite often some of these ships are over a hundred years old, having been in service to their respective houses for nearly that entire time. Often being commissioned and built to order for that house straight from the Imperial Shipyards. If I have to I can reference this, <although I hate looking things up>
Yeah, that's right.
Yes/agree especially since no single one of those variants is faithfully reproduced, yet another gripe I have with Cryptics art team. Each one of those ships looks annoyingly different from its canon counterpart. Giving us the option to swap parts would go along way towards making this no longer a problem imo.
Yeah, that's right.
I also agree that all the free ships are Klingon designs, hence a reason I have been lobbying for the Federation campaign Gorn, Orion and Naucassian ship designs to be added to the levelling fleet store to add a bit of variety and kitbashing options for those of us who have bought c-store versions of the said species ships.
um, please do, because your argument that the KDF somehow has more durable ships than Starfleet is sort of undermined by the fact Starfleet has several ship classes that have served for almost a hundred years (more so if you count STO's timeline) - I'm talking about the Miranda class which had multiple variants (one with rollbar one without, the Soyuz class was also a unique ship that was based off of the Miranda class), the Excelsior class (both the first flight model and the Lakota refit), the Oberth class (first appearance was in ST3, which puts it late 2200's, still seen around TNG and DS9 time).
These ship classes are highly successful if they're still being used decades after they were introduced. And yes, the same could also be said of the klingon bird-of-prey, but I don't have a problem with that.
For that matter I don't remember hearing that klingon ships are somehow feudally-owned and operated. I just assumed they had a defence force established to serve the high council.
A dinner plate attached to two tampon applicators. I can never again look at my sovy without a smirk... THANK YOU VERY MUCH XD.
Anywho, another guy said that fed ships could never look like all out warships... well NEWS FLASH BUDDY! Fed ships AREN'T all out warships. Most of them are exploration vessels refitted/retrofitted for war.
That's my two cents. But yes, I do agree, the KDF needs hella more variety aesthetically, but as for functionality, I feel almost sorry for feds when I am in my raptor lol...
Come on now.. there's LOTs of personality there. So much in fact two of their Tactical class ships have the same name
Regardless KDF ships are actually the most unique and personable IMHO as while they only change slightly visually from rank to rank, the variety is in the player. Strictly speaking, any career type can use a BoP and build the ship how they like with the uni slots. And if we include not only the free rank-up ships, there's actually some good variety as there are flight deck cruisers, carriers, siege destroyers, BoPs, Raptors, Battle cruisers, "Fleet Support Ships" (Sci ships basically in this case), and the Kar'Fi - which is basically an awesome battle cruiser with some hangers.
The one thing I will give you is they are sadly lacking in small craft, I would love to see some more unique KDF small craft as fed-side I tend to collect them.
The only thing KDF ships are lacking is pilots.....
/10 char
but seriouly, the original KDF ships are nice, they have peronality and character. Some of the c-store KDF ships, slightly less. The fleet ships have a split personality... They don't know wether to be tanky or DPSy... And that sux.
Well the D7 did appear in ENT. lol
I'd rather think that it was a D5 or D6 as the production team did run out of time to design a new Klingon Battlecruiser for Season 1 so they just threw in the DS9 K't'inga. But hey it appeared on screen so it's canon if you want to believe such things.
The fact is the Klingons have always used a handful of designs and just made variants for different purposes, the Bird of Prey is a great example of this. It ranged from small 12 man scout ships to larger K'vort Cruisers.
Plenty of Soft Canon evidence supports the Feudal nature of KLingon society and the concept of house owned fleets as well as the KDF fleet in service to the High Council.
As well soft canon evidence supports the Klingons design and use for ship over many centuries and decades before new designs are put into place.
R.I.P
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
By the way, the K'vort and the B'rel are actually identical if you go by a canon-purist interpretation of the onscreen visuals. The K'vort only appears once in an alternate universe (although it IS mentioned in DS9, but again only once and we don't see it onscreen) in the episode 'Yesterday's Enterprise'. Fast forward to 'Rascals' TNG season six, and we see two B'rel class BoPs attack the enterprise - all the vfx in this battle are reused from the 'Yesterday's Enterprise' battle, meaning the B'rel per onscreen canon evidence, is the equivalent of the K'vort class. (also, it's rather difficult to imagine two scout ships pwning the Enterprise, any more than it is to believe that Lursa and B'etor could do enough damage in one BoP, but... wait, I think I just shot my argument in the foot there... -_-; )
Bear in mind that the whole 'b'rel is a scout ship and the k'vort is a large, upscaled cruiser-sized bop' isn't canon at all - it's Michael Okuda's interpretation of events. But I'm not really all that much of a purist - I think the BoP visuals have always been wildly inconsistent and the scaling varies so much episode per episode that there likely would be multiple variant classes of the BoP (indeed, that's basically the only in-context reasonable explanation for what is essentially an out-of-universe vfx issue). I can hope that the TNG-R project might settle this but I guess we can only wait and see.
'bitemepwe' I'm happy to accept whatever source you want to give me, but I don't really believe in this 'soft' canon 'hard' canon divide. There really is only one canon policy, so even stuff like the TNG and DS9 technical manuals aren't even canon, despite the fact that Okuda and Sternbrach worked on the shows in question. That's not to say I would reject whatever non-canon source you have, but I would rather it be proved by using canon sources over anything else. (in other words, I would consider something from a book to be persuasive, while something from an episode to be definitive)
There was a WestEnd games Book If i rember the Publisher correctly that had Various Klingon Ships the Excuse they Used for the D-7 was it was a Good Ship and that why it has been used So long. It was in R/D prior to the First Voyage of the Enterprise. Now I wont say its Conon but they guy who Helped write the thing was Named Eugene and Last Name was Roddenberry. So id put a little Faith in it. Wish i had the book still prob worth a bit of coin!