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Science abilities recap

francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
edited August 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I've just spent:
-1000 zen (respec and then re-respec)
-1 hour of my time
to test ALL science abilities and related powers.

Test scenario.
Tholian science vessel with Joined Trill captain, with 100 points in all science skills and 4 particle generators consoles (mk xii purple) OR 4 flow capacitors consoles (mk xii purple).
It's the maximum you can do with current traits and gear.
Consoles were switched as necessary depending on ability tested.
Opponent: a D'Kora with 9 points in power insulators and 6 points in hull and armor plating, 3 points in confuse and placate counters, 12.000 shields, at 2.5 km not moving and not activating buffs.

CPB3: ~2.000 shields damage, barely noticeable. Tooltip damage was ~4.800
PSW3: ~0 absolutely nothing against a shielded target, but hey ~0 against an unshielded target. Tooltip damage was ~5.600
Tachyon Beam 3: ~3.000 shield damage over 10 seconds, it's nothing.
FBP3: ~7% hull damage when opponent was firing everything, ridiculous.
GW3: ~560 hull damage per second against a shielded target, it's so low that it was entirely countered by opponent's native hull regen.
TBR3: ~750 hull damage per second against a shielded target. quite good against target unshielded.
VM3 and SS3: disable or confuse duration as expected, ~20 and ~15 sec
Tyken 3 and Energy Siphon 3: barely noticeable effect on energy levels, ~20 and ~30 respectively
Native target subsystem 1 of a science ship: ~30 power level from the targetet subsystem (it was 51 in the tooltip, but hey, he had 9 points on power insulators)

Test on more exotic things boosted by flow capacitors:
Tholian torpedo: ~25 weapons and engines energy level, it has a 15% proc chance, so if normalized it's an amazing 3,75 energy drain per shot (and i repeat: all this with 4 flow capacitors consoles)
Ferengi mines: YES! THAT WORKS! With 4 flow capacitors consoles, 4 mines stripped ~5.000 from the opponents shield.

I don't think that I need to comment, but I will.
In the commander slot of a science ship the only abilities that work as intended are VM3, SS3.
And the only working offensive ability is TBR3.
If you want an offensive build, the best ability you can use there is... Photonic Officer 3, at least you can reduce cooldown on tac or eng abilities that are not broken like the sci ones.

I'm sad.
Have a nice vacation, Borticus.


This thread has officially been declared a "No SophLogimo Zone"
Post edited by francescos77 on

Comments

  • exal7exal7 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    In the commander slot of a science ship the only abilities that work as intended are VM3 and SS3.

    In my opinion it's fair to add TBR3 among those. It does what you'd expect from it and also does alot of damage on top of that if you're a tactical captain (~3,1k per pulse is what I can get fully buffed). That doesn't make the commander sci-slot look alot less grim though :c
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    exal7 wrote: »
    In my opinion it's fair to add TBR3 among those. It does what you'd expect from it and also does alot of damage on top of that if you're a tactical captain (~3,1k per pulse is what I can get fully buffed). That doesn't make the commander sci-slot look alot less grim though :c

    Yes, corrected the post.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    here's a happy number! on my fleet ktinga with 3 blue mkxi particle gens and 84 points from skills, i deal just under 600 dot with EWP3. tac buffed and at 100% health its deals more then 1200, it would be more if i respec and put 9 points in particles. not only is it a great snare, its a GREAT damage contributor.

    im tempted to buy up a bunch of cheap plasma weapons buffed by plasma energy consoles that will further buff the dot and go for maximum plasma ownage. except plasma cant own with -20% damage penalty built in :mad:

    but, this just goes to show how effortlessly a tac captain in every situation puts eng and sci captains out of a job.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Regarding FBP3. . .that's seems awfully low compared to my experiences with fighting sci ships. I've shot at sci ships with FBP activated and have lost 20-30% of my hull in a single attack run (3-4 salvos from cannons, maybe a repelled beam overload as well), and I'm not running light on hull armor. Maybe the D'kora in question was just undergunned and specc'd more into tanking than DPS?
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    but, this just goes to show how effortlessly a tac captain in every situation puts eng and sci captains out of a job.

    this cannot be said often enough, while we're at it quick rundown of Eng Cmdr abilities

    ES3: great op no kill i button to teammate
    AB3: TRIBBLE
    BP3: laughing stock
    DEM3: useless for eng
    EWP3: buffed by sci tree and TAC abilities no bonus to be used by engs
    RSP3: lol
    Aux2Sif3: great hull heal
    Aux2Damp3: not sure why you would want that
    Aux2BAt3: 1 seems to do the job fine


    i see the choice between great shield heal for teammates or on heal that might also be cast on self.....
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  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    exal7 wrote: »
    In my opinion it's fair to add TBR3 among those. It does what you'd expect from it and also does alot of damage on top of that if you're a tactical captain (~3,1k per pulse is what I can get fully buffed). That doesn't make the commander sci-slot look alot less grim though :c
    yes, TBR3 does what it's upposed to do, but if anything, it should be a ltcom ability. It's not THAT useful, and in many situations mess up your own teams efforts also.
    but, this just goes to show how effortlessly a tac captain in every situation puts eng and sci captains out of a job.
    ^^this

    Boff/console abilities a tac does better:
    - EWP
    - Acetone beam (?)
    - DEM
    - FBP
    - GW
    - Tykens
    - PSW
    - TBR
    - TB (though minimal damage)
    - Other eject-abilities from consoles
    - Isometric charge
    - Magnetometric Generator
    - Possibly: Point defence system and acetone assimilator ?

    Boff/console abilities a sci or engi does better:
    - uhm...
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    By which he means that every established endgame shield has 20% plasma resistance. Just in case anyone wonders.

    ah, i DID wonder. TY :)
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Oh i forgot to add this to the test:
    Tholian Web (Always with more than 220 particle generators): ~10.500 damage when collapsing, ~900 damage when colliding with web.
    Not bad, but unfortunately:
    - it only made sense when you had other working abilities using prtg (example: psw3).
    - even npcs in no win scenario are able to break nodes and escape before web collapse
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    here's a happy number! on my fleet ktinga with 3 blue mkxi particle gens and 84 points from skills, i deal just under 600 dot with EWP3. tac buffed and at 100% health its deals more then 1200, it would be more if i respec and put 9 points in particles. not only is it a great snare, its a GREAT damage contributor.

    im tempted to buy up a bunch of cheap plasma weapons buffed by plasma energy consoles that will further buff the dot and go for maximum plasma ownage. except plasma cant own with -20% damage penalty built in :mad:

    but, this just goes to show how effortlessly a tac captain in every situation puts eng and sci captains out of a job.

    How sad that a sci skill is only useful when boosting... an eng ability, and that a science ship sucks less only when the captain is a tac.
    It breaks my immersion.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It breaks my immersion.

    the key to getting this all addressed is to tell the devs how much it negatively effects your ability to enjoy pve! there will be an emergency patch that night addressing every concern! :D
  • pantsmaster916pantsmaster916 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    the key to getting this all addressed is to tell the devs how much it negatively effects your ability to enjoy pve! there will be an emergency patch that night addressing every concern! :D

    This was probably the sort of thread that'd be seen as a constructive compilation of feedback, until you had to jump in and start trolling at the devs. We as players can't really expect them to give us their full attention if we keep this up, can we?

    To the original subject, I had a question -- you said 0 damage with PSW3 against an unshielded target? Are you just complaining about the recent nerf, or was that really your results? I haven't used it since the "fix" a few weeks back, so I'm honestly curious.

    Another question, since this is all Science related... what were your Aux levels set to? Maxed out? Some of those boff abilities benefit from high Aux to a pretty large degree, like another 100% boost in some cases. Just checking because you prefaced it with being the "best possible results."
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Another question, since this is all Science related... what were your Aux levels set to? Maxed out? Some of those boff abilities benefit from high Aux to a pretty large degree, like another 100% boost in some cases. Just checking because you prefaced it with being the "best possible results."

    Of course, 125 aux except with TBR3 (otherwise the target would have been pushed outside range, even with evasive on).
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To the original subject, I had a question -- you said 0 damage with PSW3 against an unshielded target? Are you just complaining about the recent nerf, or was that really your results? I haven't used it since the "fix" a few weeks back, so I'm honestly curious.

    Tooltip damage was ~5600, but only in PvE you can see it produce that damage (it's laughable, but you can see it).
    In PvP you have to consider:
    -points in armor plating
    -points in threat generation
    -neutronium consoles
    -native hull regen ticks
    -borg hull regen proc
  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    the key to getting this all addressed is to tell the devs how much it negatively effects your ability to enjoy pve! there will be an emergency patch that night addressing every concern! :D

    "help cryptic! my ship is killing things too fast for me to enjoy the killing of the things!"

    hows that argument work?
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    here's a happy number! on my fleet ktinga with 3 blue mkxi particle gens and 84 points from skills, i deal just under 600 dot with EWP3. tac buffed and at 100% health its deals more then 1200, it would be more if i respec and put 9 points in particles. not only is it a great snare, its a GREAT damage contributor.

    im tempted to buy up a bunch of cheap plasma weapons buffed by plasma energy consoles that will further buff the dot and go for maximum plasma ownage. except plasma cant own with -20% damage penalty built in :mad:

    but, this just goes to show how effortlessly a tac captain in every situation puts eng and sci captains out of a job.

    My Odyssey KILLS ships with EWP3... I am NOT joking... It does not even need to shoot them that sucker is DEADLY. You do NOT want to be on the Panther Fang's rear lol. (Darned Dilithium Burritos...)

    This is a pretty sad list OP... I do not doubt you for a moment though... They have thoroughly screwed over Sci Abilities. They took out their Nerf bat... Then threw it away in favor of a Morning Star and then drank 3 cans of Monster and went to work on those Sci Abilities.
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Oh i forgot to tell you that i also tested a spectacular
    MASK ENERGY SIGNATURE
    With 100 skill points in stealth, 125 AUX and an Emergency power to AUX (that also boosts stealth).

    LOL
    1- can't be activated in combat, but we already knew that
    2- it's only effect is to paint your ship in black, my opponent could see me from more than 20km away.

    Pretending that this is intentional and that it only works in PvE by design.. I can't imagine a PvE scenario where this ability could be helpful.
    Just remove this ability from the game, or fix it if you can.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This was probably the sort of thread that'd be seen as a constructive compilation of feedback, until you had to jump in and start trolling at the devs. We as players can't really expect them to give us their full attention if we keep this up, can we?

    welcome to the pvp forum, please lighten up. we kid the devs because we love them. well those that haven't been banned at least
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I've posted this
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=368741

    in the general feedback forum.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I've posted this
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=368741

    in the general feedback forum.

    well, you tried lol
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    LOL, it was buried in the bug forum :(
    I suppose they don't like to see a bug list of 30 or more points in the general forum :D
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    LOL, it was buried in the bug forum :(
    I suppose they don't like to see a bug list of 30 or more points in the general forum :D

    well, would you want a laundry list of problems at the top of a forum section were the newbies are most likely to hang out? might give them a bad impression lol
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Fortune favors the bold, Huzzah

    Havam *yes i think most of my post will be limited to some platitudes until i see some substantial progress on the pvp efforts by Crytpic*

    please hold the line
  • knockyknocky Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    You have crushed my desire to build a science ship.

    /cry


    I suppose this is why I see escorts and cruisers everywhere.

    Who knew that science abilities had red hair?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    knocky wrote: »
    You have crushed my desire to build a science ship.

    /cry


    I suppose this is why I see escorts and cruisers everywhere.

    Who knew that science abilities had red hair?

    its ok for a science ship to have red hair, as long as it has a red captain...
  • knockyknocky Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    its ok for a science ship to have red hair, as long as it has a red captain...


    Sadly, I am a blue. I just wear red pants. :cool:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • teleon22teleon22 Member Posts: 424
    edited August 2012
    I think moving the Bridge Office Abilities around could be a neat fix for science...

    Ability (Tactical)
    Tactical Team
    Beam Overload
    Beam Fire At Will
    Target Engines
    Target Shields
    Target Weapons
    Target Auxiliary
    Torpedo High yield
    Torpedo Spread
    Cannon Rapid Fire
    Cannon Scatter Volley
    Attack Pattern Beta
    Attack Pattern Delta
    Dispersal Pattern Alpha
    Dispersal Pattern Beta
    Boarding Party
    Attack Pattern Omega

    Ability (Engineer)
    Engineering Team
    Emergency Power to Shields
    Emergency Power to Weapons
    Emergency Power to Engines
    Emergency Power to Auxillery
    Hazzard Emitters
    Transfer Shield Strength
    Auxiliary to Emergency Battery
    Auxiliary to Structural Integrity
    Auxiliary to Dapeners
    Extend Shields
    Tractor Beam
    Tractor Beam repolsers
    Eject Warp Plasma

    Ability (Science)
    Science Team
    Jam Sensors
    Tachyon Beam
    Polarize Hull Plating
    Energy Siphon
    Mask Energy Signature
    Reverse Shield Polarity
    Direct Energy modulation
    Aceton Beam
    Scramble Sensors
    Feedback Pulse
    Photonic Shockwave
    Charged Particle Burst
    Gravity Well
    Tykens Rift
    Viral Matrix
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