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Borticus, when will siphon drones be fixed?

naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
edited August 2012 in PvP Gameplay
As the title says, when will siphon drones be fixed? No battries, eps, nadion or any other form of energy boosting ability works to counter it so it IS totally broken. Any information on this is welcomed.

This is the only ability i know of which is an i win button in a match if a whole team is running this build. It requires little or no skill to run and it totaly takes the fun out of the game when you face these unskilled setups.

The proposed counters to these things do not work. All your power levels hit 0 allowing you to do nothing at all. Question is, why is it taking this long to fix?
Post edited by naz4 on
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Comments

  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    "There ....ARE.....ALWAYS....COUNTERS" says Gecko,
    expect a "ooops didn't know that was happening" sometime around S9 release, and fix shortly thereafter breaking all EPtX skills in 2014 aka soon(tm)
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  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Well, you can destroy them with EWP or FAW.

    they can be replaced faster then you can kill them. a hard hitting photonic shockwave was one of the only abilites that could help keep them under control. now it cant.


    remember! siphion drones (among other things) do not suffer the same resist that other power drain powers do. who the **** knows why they decided thatd be a good idea....
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  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Soph, spoken like a true novice. Read the above carefully. A full team running the drain build where no matter what you use to increase power, you still go nowhere fast. Oh i forgot, you do 1 v 1 so you dont understand what we are on about.

    FAW does not work with the lack of weapons power. Scatter volley doesnt work without weapons power. EWP dies off without making a difference. 0 power in any system means 0 output of ability to counter so evasive doesnt work to get away. Shields go offline due to 0 power. Now do you understand? You need to learn to pvp in a team before you can see the OP ability in action.
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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    soph is why we cant have nice things, or balance. siphons, like other team abusable things before it were eventually addressed. hopefully this will be too. the problem is the drones have no off switch, its not a short temporary drain, and the magnitude is set to 100%. everything about them is wrong, and they ot to explode after they siphon energy for 15 seconds, because they are so saturated with energy. or something.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    naz4 wrote: »
    Soph, spoken like a true novice. Read the above carefully. A full team running the drain build where no matter what you use to increase power, you still go nowhere fast. Oh i forgot, you do 1 v 1 so you dont understand what we are on about.

    FAW does not work with the lack of weapons power. Scatter volley doesnt work without weapons power. EWP dies off without making a difference. 0 power in any system means 0 output of ability to counter so evasive doesnt work to get away. Shields go offline due to 0 power. Now do you understand? You need to learn to pvp in a team before you can see the OP ability in action.

    Okay, I don't run drain builds, and I honestly don't see a lot of this sort of thing going on. . .but it seems to me that if an ENTIRE TEAM (that is, 5 people) are running good drain builds, then they SHOULD be able to drain 1-2 targets of power. That's assuming you're talking about 5 people draining power from 1-2 people.

    If that's the case, then your problem isn't the siphon drones themselves. . .it's the tactics being used. They SHOULD be able to stack them, they're using teamwork to take advantage of a potent weapon. Making it to where 5 ships can't effectively drain power from 1-2 people is, imo, unfair. It makes drain abilities pointless. Learn to destroy the enemy before they drain you.

    If it were just one ship sucking all the power from another ship, all by itself, I could see your point. But that's not what this sounds like.

    Perhaps resistances need to be buffed. I don't know. I do know that this probably isn't as game-breaking as you're making it sound.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Dude, stop whining and learn to play. :rolleyes:

    Your original post is nothing but the same stuff that you mock others about when they claim escorts are OP. Yes, the resistances not working is not nice and should be fixed. But it is not the end of the world (or balanced games), however frustrating that match may have been for you.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Don't worry guys I will resolve the situation.

    Borticus, the siphon drone works fine, it's very good and don't need to be fixed.
    Please leave it alone, it's very balanced, everyone is happy with it and also the opponents that meet it in a match are happy because they know that they have several balanced counters.

    I'm just curious, I've noticed that the power drain does not follow a linear formula, maybe take a look and tell us what formula it's using? Just curious, only take a look, don't change nothing in the code please.

    Thank you.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Okay, I don't run drain builds, and I honestly don't see a lot of this sort of thing going on. . .but it seems to me that if an ENTIRE TEAM (that is, 5 people) are running good drain builds, then they SHOULD be able to drain 1-2 targets of power. That's assuming you're talking about 5 people draining power from 1-2 people.

    If that's the case, then your problem isn't the siphon drones themselves. . .it's the tactics being used. They SHOULD be able to stack them, they're using teamwork to take advantage of a potent weapon. Making it to where 5 ships can't effectively drain power from 1-2 people is, imo, unfair. It makes drain abilities pointless. Learn to destroy the enemy before they drain you.

    If it were just one ship sucking all the power from another ship, all by itself, I could see your point. But that's not what this sounds like.

    Perhaps resistances need to be buffed. I don't know. I do know that this probably isn't as game-breaking as you're making it sound.

    If 5 ships could drain 1 or 2 ships, it might not be op, but the power is so unbalanced, it shuts the whole team down. The siphon team only needs to launch drones on each player and your done for.
  • toeofdoomtoeofdoom Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Last I checked, against a single enemy with siphon drones and another power drain ability or 2, hitting nadeon inversion and EPS power transfer with a maco shield on was enough to keep your systems at least partially functional for about 30 seconds, for the ones with more than 25 power in them. I mean, they're only the best counters you can have on a ship designed to keep power levels really high and turn out to not really counter a thing. What could possibly be wrong with that?
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    toeofdoom wrote: »
    Last I checked, against a single enemy with siphon drones and another power drain ability or 2, hitting nadeon inversion and EPS power transfer with a maco shield on was enough to keep your systems at least partially functional for about 30 seconds, for the ones with more than 25 power in them. I mean, they're only the best counters you can have on a ship designed to keep power levels really high and turn out to not really counter a thing. What could possibly be wrong with that?

    So based on that statement, the whole team would have to be engineers who might be able to have some power in their systems for about 1\4 of the game (30 seconds every 2 minutes). The drones can be spat out by carriers about every 10 seconds vs a minor impact counter available every 2 mins? Either way still doesnt sound balanced to me.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    toeofdoom wrote: »
    Last I checked, against a single enemy with siphon drones and another power drain ability or 2, hitting nadeon inversion and EPS power transfer with a maco shield on was enough to keep your systems at least partially functional for about 30 seconds, for the ones with more than 25 power in them. I mean, they're only the best counters you can have on a ship designed to keep power levels really high and turn out to not really counter a thing. What could possibly be wrong with that?

    Well that is sure fantastic if we where all engis I guess. So you get a nice +30-40 from your eps and your power is at +30 across the board... sounds like tacs and scis get to sit there at zero then. lol

    Honesty the drain mechanic in general is pretty borked.... Hmmm I think francescos772 has the right idea....

    Borticus... I was noticing that Siphen, Siphen Drones, Energy Siphen, and Leach... you would assume would have a drain mechanic that would be very much the same in its workings... I must say though the numbers from each when factoring in resist values don't at all seem to be logical. I mean should the ratios not be the same on them all... I don't know perhaps you can take a look... I mean don't change nothing just look.
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  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
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  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    Well that is sure fantastic if we where all engis I guess. So you get a nice +30-40 from your eps and your power is at +30 across the board... sounds like tacs and scis get to sit there at zero then. lol

    Honesty the drain mechanic in general is pretty borked.... Hmmm I think francescos772 has the right idea....

    Borticus... I was noticing that Siphen, Siphen Drones, Energy Siphen, and Leach... you would assume would have a drain mechanic that would be very much the same in its workings... I must say though the numbers from each when factoring in resist values don't at all seem to be logical. I mean should the ratios not be the same on them all... I don't know perhaps you can take a look... I mean don't change nothing just look.

    This would be a good start. Finally someone who knows a thing or 2 :)
  • toeofdoomtoeofdoom Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    In case you're curious, the ship in question was a science ship thus able to fire off a gravity well 3 to no effect whatsoever. In the end, because by luck I seem to have nearly the best counter available (and kinda pitiful at that) I managed to do okay, attacking other players outside the range of drones while that player was distracted, noting that them leaving said range was a tactical blunder in the first place.

    But that sort of counter should pretty much turn the drones into useless scrap for 30 seconds and also not be actually required to survive. Similarly powerful, non energy weapon AOE will work very well for a short period of time but between that time or if you rely on resists potentially with weaker AOEs, that should allow you to put up a fight. Based on what I've seen it really won't.

    Oh and the no real problem comment was sarcasm.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost


    THERE ARE NO WAYS TO COUNTER SIPHEN DRONES THEY ARE BROKO.

    Although I would have a very good chuckle loading a broken drain team up when you where online... I am not D Bag enough to do that to anyone else qued with you.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    toeofdoom wrote: »
    In case you're curious, the ship in question was a science ship thus able to fire off a gravity well 3 to no effect whatsoever. In the end, because by luck I seem to have nearly the best counter available (and kinda pitiful at that) I managed to do okay, attacking other players outside the range of drones while that player was distracted, noting that them leaving said range was a tactical blunder in the first place.

    But that sort of counter should pretty much turn the drones into useless scrap for 30 seconds and also not be actually required to survive. Similarly powerful, non energy weapon AOE will work very well for a short period of time but between that time or if you rely on resists potentially with weaker AOEs, that should allow you to put up a fight. Based on what I've seen it really won't.

    Oh and the no real problem comment was sarcasm.

    lol, took it as that :)
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    toeofdoom wrote: »
    Oh and the no real problem comment was sarcasm.
    Its late here sarcasm detector may be asleep already. :) lol
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  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,868 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The first way to counter any siphons ability is to spec into reinforcing your systems against being drained. If you haven't though, there's your first problem as the first 3 points go a long way. If you see siphons coming you way, shoot them first. Don't stay locked on the person deploying htem at you. If you still can't grasp the first two mentioned. I have one more way t help you counter siphons. When you see them coming, run! 3 perfectly viable ways to counter siphons so take your nerf cries and go whine somewhere else!
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost

    Apart from that: No, there are counters:

    EWP
    FAW (don't hug the enemy, though)
    TBR
    TS

    Your kidden right... Yes Faw will work vs one drain carrier that IS NOT running a leach a siphen a tykens... and a target sub systems or 3.

    FAW Will 100% NOT work when you have 2-3 drain carriers.

    TBR... Will work for exactly 15 seconds... then 2-3 drain carriers will shut you down to zero in about 3 seconds.

    EWP... Will NOT save you... it doesn't do enough dmg to remove Advanced Siphen pods. And 2-3 carriers spamming them there is no way you save yourself long enough to do anything.

    What did you role a klink when we where not looking ?

    Take it from people that have played with Siphen Pods... they are 1000% broken. I played around with a drain build for about an hour before I decided I am not that much of a jerk... there really is nothing anyone can do. If 2-3 people on a team are running mass drain builds... they will shut down entire teams. No amount of Faw or CSV or EWP or TBR or GW or Shockwaves will keep up with the amount of power draining spam those guys will be putting out...

    Really I can set my Karfi Carrier up to spit out Advanced Siphen pods every 9 seoonds... how long do you think your going to keep that controled. All I would have to do would be hit you with a tykens 3 (god help you if I decided to put my purple tykens doff on)... perhaps follow that with a siphen 2... run some target shields 3 and engines 2. If I am really in a jerk mood... I might even hit you with a little borg tractor beam. (or wait for the purple ring that tells me I just polaron proced ya for a nice -47 then lay the drain on heavy) ;) haha
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Counters to Siphon Drones:
    - FAW *
    - CSV *
    - TBR *
    - PSW
    - EWP *
    - Point Defense Turret *
    - Theta Radiation *
    - Gravity Well *
    - Tyken's Rift *

    * Won't do anything against the Siphon Drones if you have no power. Even EWP is a wash without Engine power to spread it around.

    PSW is the only counter available when you're drained - but not everyone can slot that and PSWs damage got severely cut.

    Even still, the drones can be pumped out MUCH faster than these abilities can be used, except for FAW and CSV. Again, useless if you've got no power.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    can't help to think that sophie took a class with Gecko
    wb Praxis
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  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    jcsww wrote: »
    The first way to counter any siphons ability is to spec into reinforcing your systems against being drained. If you haven't though, there's your first problem as the first 3 points go a long way. If you see siphons coming you way, shoot them first. Don't stay locked on the person deploying htem at you. If you still can't grasp the first two mentioned. I have one more way t help you counter siphons. When you see them coming, run! 3 perfectly viable ways to counter siphons so take your nerf cries and go whine somewhere else!

    OK, first lesson: As has been written a few times in this thread,is that the sip-drones are not taking resistances into consideration! Secondly, siphon drain is immune to counters. (like batteries and EPtoS etc)

    Second lesson: Yes, ofc you can build a ship to fight drones, and spend the whole match fighting NPCs (they spawn every 10 seconds!), while the ship launching them can spend it's whole match fighting you. Even if you DO manage to destroy them all, all your damage output is effectively reduced to 0%, permanently! And the only counter to that is to stop hunting drones, and that leaves you without any power.

    Third lesson: Run? uhu... so if you fight a team with 5 drone spawners, you will just avoid them? In what way is that different from cruising around sector space doing nothing? You seriously consider this to be a good thing for STO pvp?

    So I say again.. what viable counter??

    On a side-note: Advanced Danubes are close to the same level of broken, if used in mass. With the right doffs, 6 can be deployed, from a ship with escort-level damage output.
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