So, I'm days (at most, probably closer to hours) away from hitting Vice Admiral, and when I get there I want to try a carrier. I can't even dream of affording a Recluse at this point (though I'd love it, the Tholian ships look awesome) so that leaves me selecting between the Atrox and the Armitage. I'm a Tactical officer.
I like the appearance of the Armitage, and the idea of the Photon defense console, alot more than the Atrox, but I've never had much success with Escorts. I'm kinda interested in the idea of going with no Torpedoes, just 3 DHCs 1 DBB fore, and 2 Turrets and a Beam Array aft.
My bad experiences with escorts do lead me to consider the Atrox though. With it's... lets go with "sub-par" turn rate It's been suggested I could go all turret and let my fighters do most of the heavy lifting. As a tac officer I can get some relief from its sluggishness with Attack Pattern Alpha.
I don't know, can anyone offer me advice? Reasoning fore/against either of them?
If you want a Fed carrier then you have 2 chocies. The Armatige is an escort, not a carrier. You fight in it as an escort.
I would go with the Atrox anyway, but since you don't like escorts how about the best tanker if you set it up that way?
I use the Atrox over everything else. You looking for a full build for one?
My bad experiences with escorts do lead me to consider the Atrox though. With it's... lets go with "sub-par" turn rate It's been suggested I could go all turret and let my fighters do most of the heavy lifting. As a tac officer I can get some relief from its sluggishness with Attack Pattern Alpha.
The Atrox has a lower Tac slot than a Vo'Quv, which means that you can only have one cannon power which lowers the usefulness of the turrets. Also, you miss out on subsystem targeting that the Atrox has built in. I'd go all beam arrays personally, preferably Tetryon (Phased or Polarized a plus) or Disruptor to help your fighters and team kill the things you're shooting.
APA's speed boost applies against the base turn, and while every bit helps the slower carriers, it's not going to be a huge help, especially with the cooldown time. You should learn to do 'extreme backing' in a carrier, put it in reverse and hit Evasive Maneuvers or Deuterium Surplus to line up things.
My bad experiences with escorts do lead me to consider the Atrox though. With it's... lets go with "sub-par" turn rate It's been suggested I could go all turret and let my fighters do most of the heavy lifting. As a tac officer I can get some relief from its sluggishness with Attack Pattern Alpha.
If you don't like escorts then definitely go with the Atrox. She's only a little bit slower than the oddy. and when set up right is an amazing ship...
The armitage is an escort, and needs to be flown like one.
As others have mentioned, I would go with all Beam Arrays, Tetryon/Phased Tetryon or Phased Polaron or Disruptors.
You're Fighters are your DPS and you want to keep a steady stream of those things coming off the line. Your primary weapons are just for Shield Stripping and Debuffing.
To boost your Fighters' dps even more, Gravity Well III is a must, imo. I also use Energy Siphon II.
As to what fighters to use, it's really up to you. They all have their own advantages. With my setup, I primarily use 2 Advanced Peregrine Fighter Hangars. Sometimes 1 Adv. Stalker and 1 Adv. Peregrine.
For Tac abilities, I use TTI and FAWII. There's also a Tropedo build you can reference if you sift through the forums.
As for the Armitage, yes, it's an Escort with a Hangar. Typically, you'd set it up like any other Escort, or at least like the Fleet Escort, given it has a similar layout and stats, save for the secondary Tac Boff.
I have both and like them equally for different reasons. I'm currently using the Atrox, anxiously awaiting the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier.
Both ships are good, the Armitage is a tougher than usual escort with a hanger bay instead of a lt. commander tac skill and a Lt. Commander engineer for good PVE tanking abilities. It flies like most escorts and can leverage multiple AOE's (The point defense system, Cannon Scatter Volley, T:spread) and fighter's set to intercept to be a "one ship solution" to carrier spam. The ship can excel at a play-style that is inherently different to your typical escort captains, "kill them all, one at a time" philosophy. Embracing this playstyle will cost serious single target DPS and may not work well in high end PVP but will defiantly flourish in PVE where the target's aren't nearly as tough.
The Atrox is a tough and slow sci ship, not optimized for PVP because of the nerfs to sci skills but still enjoyable and a welcome addition to most teams. It makes an excellent "anchor/tank" and is one of the few ships that "almost anything BUT anti-proton" is the correct weapon energy type. Disruptors and phased-TRIBBLE seem to be the best pick with their team focused procs. The proper combination of crowd control and heals will be determined by your PVP(CC heavy) and PVE(support heavy) tendencies. As long as you can get 80% or better up time on EPTS and a MACO, Aegis or Jem'Hadar shield you're own survivability should be pretty good for PVE.
WARNING UNSOLICITED ADVICE BELOW!!!!
doomicile gives good advice about keeping your AUX power high and using gravity well 3 for CC while flying a sci ship, especially the Atrox.
If it was my Atrox I'd avoid all turret based builds like the plague, they have a good proc rate but the damage drop off over distance doesn't seem worth it. Beam array builds do more damage at a range of 4 KM or better and with the Atrox's slow moving TRIBBLE chasing down targets is an option of last resort.
If you set your weapon power to 25 or so having a 5 or more beam broadside or BFAW will probably be more than your ship can support well. After some quick checking with the Starship Weapons calculator power levels of 50-75 prefer 2 or 1 dual beam banks respectively for DPS maximizing. It actually predicts losing DPS on your broadside from having to much energy drain at those power levels, that said the increased proc rate might be worth the lost damage to you. The Jem'Hadar shield and engine would boost your weapon power and polaron energy damage, with phased polaron weapons that could make a nice difference in your personal DPS and leave you tough enough for Elite STF's, possibly even PVP.
If this is your first carrier some personal advice for you is to adjust your HUD so that you can always see the health of your ships and how many are alive, healing them is pointless just spawn more when they get too damaged or too many die. Get the Dil store versions A.S.A.P. and don't be afraid to change out which fighter's you're using based on what you are doing and your play-style.
Twelve A. Peregrines shooting quantum torpedoes and dual phaser cannons at borg nodes will make short work of them, set to intercept mode they will wreck opposing fighters.
Eight A. Runabouts will tractor beam 2 and choronite torpedo spam anything into a negative defense score eventually.
I'm assuming by cannon build you mean 3xCannons and 3x Turrets.
I have a couple of reasons, bad personal experience with cannon builds on other slow turning cruisers, the loss of subsystem targeting, the thought of only having three turrets in the back 180 degrees of the ship, and the extreme damage drop off over range cannons suffer from.
A beam array build like I spec'd tends to put out more DPS at the 5-10KM range then a cannon build. At about 6 KM the 2x beam arrays and 1x DBB actually start to out DPS all 6 cannons when the power levels are in the 50-75 range, the lower your weapon power the shorter the range when beams are better. The beam arrays always out DPS three turrets in the back 180 and that only get's worse with range.
Now at close range and low power, 0-5 KM and 50-75 energy for this discussion, the cannons do more damage but until you have a target within 4 KM it's pretty negligible. The higher your weapon power levels the better cannons do, but even at 125 weapon power the three beams on the front end are doing more damage then all 6 cannons at 7 KM or so. The five beam array broadside pulls ahead at 2 KM range under those conditions, that's pretty damn close.
P.S. All the above math is based on the Starship Weapons Calculator and considers no BOFF skills so it may be a little off.
I have 125 weapons power and have around 90 shield power. I also stay right at 4-5 KM. So I am still sticking with at that range cannons and turrets are better. And yes that is what I use, 3 each of DHCs and turrets.
orondis, kind of hard to do DPS when you are dead. If you have not tank then you take a lot of extra fire. If escorts were really the best then everyone would use them am I right? Then why are there a lot of Eng. and Sci. ships?
Yes DPS is king, but escorts are not the only DPS ships. Carriers are the others. Hence this thread.
You are a Tactical officer and you buff damage...Which abilities and weapons are you going to buff on the Atrox? The Atrox is slow so you will only be firing turrets and beam arrays and only six of them at that. You only have a lt Tactical Boff. There really isnt any choice between the two ships.
You say you havent had much success with escorts, IMHO I dont think you will be getting any more success with any other kind of ship. Maybe its just because you havent tried the top tier ships yet. In that case I suggest the Armitage. Its an all around great ship. Its a very sturdy ship and you can have some fun with the pets. You can fit an Extends on it for protecting targets.
The Atrox is more of an Engineer's ship. You can protect yourself with your native Engineering abilities which frees up your Boff abilities to heal others.
hyprodimus, I find it funny that you call an escort "Its a very sturdy ship." we are talking about an escort right? Yes it does great DPS, but it is not sturdy compared to an Atrox. If you want strong plus DPS when go Atrox.
hyprodimus, I find it funny that you call an escort "Its a very sturdy ship." we are talking about an escort right? Yes it does great DPS, but it is not sturdy compared to an Atrox. If you want strong plus DPS when go Atrox.
It's the sturdiest of all escorts (it can run Emergency Power to Shields 3 and has plenty of room for Tactical Teams), plus it can use shield drones to further buff its defenses (and still deal a bucketload of dps, as it's still an escort otherwise).
Besides, no other escort can use its fighters to take down high yields or mines...so yes, it's a VERY sturdy ship...for an escort.
I assume that people know which category the Armitage falls into and hence which ships it should be compared to.
The Armitage isnt a tank, but it doesnt need to be because Cyptic makes PvE so laughable.
Anything with 3-piece borg, cycling EPS and has shield distribution officers is tough enough for PvE.
Ill say it again.
You are a Tactical officer and you buff damage...Which abilities and weapons are you going to buff on the Atrox? The Atrox is slow so you will only be firing turrets and beam arrays and only six of them at that. You only have a lt Tactical Boff. There really isnt any choice between the two ships.
For PvE, the Armitage is quite solid all around. It's something of a super star gate buster with Adv. Peregrines, great for escorting the freighters in Blockade (here, have some shield repair drones, and extend shields 2). It can have quite a bit of crowd control, thanks to Eject Warp Plasma 1 and Danube Runabouts.
About the only thing it doesn't do appreciably well is fly as a High-Aux heal boat (the Atrox stomps it there, no qustion). It can be extremely durable, BFI DOffs (plenty of room for a pair of them, thanks to having plenty of ENS slots for TT), RSP, and EPtS3 (on an escort!) lead to a ship that's not getting one shotted by anything other than a shield-ignoring super torpedo.
Oh, just remember, that as an escort, it's busy. If you're making the most of your pets by micro-managing them, you'll easily find the workload doubled over something like, say, the Patrol Escort.
I have 125 weapons power and have around 90 shield power. I also stay right at 4-5 KM. So I am still sticking with at that range cannons and turrets are better. And yes that is what I use, 3 each of DHCs and turrets.
orondis, kind of hard to do DPS when you are dead. If you have not tank then you take a lot of extra fire. If escorts were really the best then everyone would use them am I right? Then why are there a lot of Eng. and Sci. ships?
Yes DPS is king, but escorts are not the only DPS ships. Carriers are the others. Hence this thread.
Kyle
You fly 125 weapon power in a sci ship? A sci ship where you ignore the free sub system targeting by not even running one beam weapon? You have 3xDHC's on a ship with a turn rate of 5? You are a little weird there kyle.
As for escorts, they are more than tough enough for PVE play in the hands of a decent pilot, look at corsair114, hyprodimus and thibash's post, that's all true, we're not lying to you.
On a side note, that blockade build sounds interesting Corsair, I hit them with Tac team 1, Aux2Str1, TSS and HE then go to town with my fighters set to intercept or defend. I might try out an EPtS1, Aux2Str1, ES engineer now.
To the 3 of you who have posted in the last bit. thanks for doing it, but here is my response.
Ok, yes STFs and PVE are really easy now. But here is the challenge. I do the fleet alert a lot. This has now happened a few time. I have been in a few where there are only me, in an Atrox, and 2 escorts. Usually the Armitage. Here is my question to you all, can the Armitage tank both fleets and heal both escorts while blowing up most of the ships? Before you say the other 2 ships are weak, they are skilled pilots but they cannot tank 30 ships. The Atrox can.
And yes it has a turn rate of 5. Yes I do not use subsystem targeting. I used beam for a the first day and every time I used SST it failed. Have you ever used this ship with end lvl gear? my ship turns about 8-9 degrees sitting still, faster turning with speed.
Please don't say this ship cannot do DPS, this ship is one of the best at DPS. It can DPS some escort ships with no problem.
P.S. I may be weird, but I don't care. Where is the fun in normal?
Kyle
I Fleet Alerts in PUGs as a sci-scort all the time. We beat it no problem. Never have I ever had to "tank both fleets and heal both escorts while blowing up most of the ships"
Have you ever used this ship with end lvl gear?
Well yeah...only for the past four months. Its always assumed that people are max level with end level gear unless they say otherwise.
You may be having fun, but you are also telling people to spend real money on a ship that they wont be effective in. You are telling them to buy a fridge just so they can heat themselves with the heat exchange coils at the back.
hyprodimus, funny. I was thinking the same about what you were saying. So you use the Atrox with 3-piece borg and MACO shield with DHCs and Turrets? If so then fine, but beams are not the best for this ship if you are a Tac captain.
I said that because I have had many events where it is just 2 or 3 people. Yes with 5 people you can run just about anything, but with just 2 or 3 builds really feel the pressure.
Easiest way to tank one of those fleets in an Armitage is to clear the trash ships as fast as possible (Raptor/BoP sized ships). Try come in sideways, to avoid shield balancing mechanics (namely on BoP's), laying down scattery volley, Torp Spreads, and Beta 3/1. Once they're gone, you'll have enough aggro to hold the attention of most of the ships and enough survivability to weather whats coming at you, just don't park and shoot.
I could probably tie up both waves in the Fleet Alert if necessary, but generally am about 10-20km from the other wave (as I tend to try and catch them on point, that way when they if they do get within range of the STB, their numbers and firepower are dramatically decreased). If push comes to shove, there's been a few situations where I was flying circular strafing runs around the STB while I had ES2 on it to keeps its shield intact while mowing down the enemies in the alert. My gear is not optimal, but I'll post what I'm running on my Escort Carrier below.
Front: 3 Phaser DHC Mk XI anti-borg / 1 Photon Torpedo anti-borg
Rear: 3 Phaser Turret Mk XI anti-borg
Deflector: Borg
Engines: Borg
Shields: MACO Mk XI Resilient shields
ENG Con: Torpedo PDS / 2 Neutronium Mk X Rare
SCI Con: Borg Assimilated Console / Field Generator
TAC Con: 3 Phaser Relay Mk X rare / 1 Photon Torpedo Detonator Console Mk XI Rare (it'll turn into a phaser console sooner or later, probably)
LTC Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1 / Emergency Power to Shields 2 / Extend Shields 2
LT Sci: Hazard Emitters 1 / Transfer Shield Strength 2
Note, this setup does have one really annoying weakness for PvE, a cookie to whoever can pick it out. PvP'ers, yes, it's got about a dozen fatal flaws, but I don't fly it in PvP for a reason.
hyprodimus if it was not a Tac ship then why do so many Fed and KDF Tac captains use it? If it is really that bad then why do I see more Atroxs then Armitages?
corsair114 that is the idea I try to use. The problem I have run into is that someone comes in and trolls. Meaning he brings both fleets next to each other inside of across the map. Across the map is easy and just about anything can take it down.
I couldn't really see the flay, just that your gear was not mk 12 and not anti-proton.
The flaw is nothing to break tractor beams, a flaw I share in my PVE loadout currently. I'm thinking of swapping one of my two APBs for an APO but I haven't really had an issue surviving a tractor in PVE.
I like the appearance of the Armitage, and the idea of the Photon defense console, alot more than the Atrox, but I've never had much success with Escorts. I'm kinda interested in the idea of going with no Torpedoes, just 3 DHCs 1 DBB fore, and 2 Turrets and a Beam Array aft.
Armitage all the way mate if your a Tactical Officer and I would use torpedoes simply because of the Photon defense console, using that in combination with Torpedo Spread III launches a massive amount of torpedoes with some very serious dps.
The Atrox is not really suited for a Tactical Officer its a Science ship so unless you have so friends or in a fleet to get others to train your Sci bridge officers your skills as a Tactical to use to be honest will be ****.
I get really annoyed when I have to play with people using an Atrox as some half assed tactical ship because they are letting the team down with there selfish playing style its a support ship and as for putting cannons on a support ship thats just lols, cannons are only effective at less than 5km given its a support ship it should be sitting around 9km from target so Beams are a better long range weapon. It gets very annoying when playing tactical with a Sci officer who won't heal or support you or the team.
But thats just me, If you like a ship buy it who really cares what others think. Just don't go letting the team down lol.
If anyone finds their escort to be squishy in PvE, then they need to rethink their build. There is a very good thread (stickied somewhere) on escort builds for PvE.
Serious PvE build = escort. Everything else is just for fun.
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
ariseabove, I find many many more escorts who have no idea what an escort is. Or that you are suppose to stick together where the "support" ship can help. I find that because I am in a so called "support" ship people think I can't DPS. I have out DPSed many an escort in this "weak ship that should not use cannons."
Come on. It can use cannons because it is one of the few ships that it works with. Plus the fighters just add to it. And please, I stay about 3 KM from my target. That is closer than most escorts, most of them sit at 7.
It's depressing when someone says they can afford a Real Money item, but not a in-game money item.
I disagree. Saying you can afford a real money item implies that you have enough money to throw down Cryptic/PWE's hole. That means you're either making money or cavalier with money, and either way, that can be interpreted as a positive (more the former than the latter).
The converse is that in-game money items cost time, and time is money. Some folks grind for weeks or even months to buy a high-end ship or enough Zen to buy a C-store ship, and not everyone can afford to pay that time. Some folks have lives, ideally ones that make them enough money to afford real money items.
The above is especially true when it comes to expensive EC items like Lobi or Lockbox ships on the Exchange. It's damned expensive and time-consuming to gather the tons of EC necessary to buy, say, a 400-million-EC bug, because you simply can't spend real money to buy EC (barring illegitimate RMT operations). Sure, you can farm Dilithium, sell it for Zen on the exchange, and then use the Zen to buy Fleet Modules or Master Keys and sell those on the exchange, but that method is slow, unreliable, and vulnerable to market forces.
With this in mind, I think it might be worthwhile for Cryptic to think of creating a more direct method of making EC. How about making Dilithium exchangeable for EC, but not the other way around? This discourages gold farmers attempting to farm EC (which is faster than Dil) for C-points, and allows regular players an easier way to play the exchange.
The only (admittedly nasty) side effect I see from that is that EC prices for regular items will probably jump, and maybe everything will return to square one.
Or that you are suppose to stick together where the "support" ship can help.
The missions we are talking about here are "Group" missions they are not every man for him self, your supposed to play as a team. Just going in there and doing what ever the hell you like is not Team work remember there is no "i" in "Team".
I find that because I am in a so called "support" ship people think I can't DPS. I have out DPSed many an escort in this "weak ship that should not use cannons."
No people automatically think your there to help the Team because as you say your in a support ship so yeah an escort should go flying past you because there attack class you are not.
Come on. It can use cannons because it is one of the few ships that it works with. Plus the fighters just add to it. And please, I stay about 3 KM from my target. That is closer than most escorts, most of them sit at 7.
As above your a support ship your the one who should be sitting at 7km, look mate my Kar fi can out dps most things too and yes it has cannons on it but it is a support ship I will sit back and constantly heal an escort even if I can out dps him/her it's not my job to ignore the rest of the team and go in guns blazing.
With this in mind, I think it might be worthwhile for Cryptic to think of creating a more direct method of making EC. How about making Dilithium exchangeable for EC, but not the other way around? This discourages gold farmers attempting to farm EC (which is faster than Dil) for C-points, and allows regular players an easier way to play the exchange.
If your interested I can tell you of a way to make 1mill ec easy a day if not more but it will cost Dilithium not much though.
Send me a pm if your are interested and I'll respond, I don't wanna say it in public as the more people know about it the less you earn.
Theres also a few other ways especially now with fleet assignments requiring replicatable items that are selling on the exchange for a massive mark up, I just assume people must not realise they can replicate most of those items lol. Put it this way you can replicate a common battery for next to nothing but on the exchange they sell 10 times if not more than the replicatable price.
Comments
I would go with the Atrox anyway, but since you don't like escorts how about the best tanker if you set it up that way?
I use the Atrox over everything else. You looking for a full build for one?
Kyle
The Atrox has a lower Tac slot than a Vo'Quv, which means that you can only have one cannon power which lowers the usefulness of the turrets. Also, you miss out on subsystem targeting that the Atrox has built in. I'd go all beam arrays personally, preferably Tetryon (Phased or Polarized a plus) or Disruptor to help your fighters and team kill the things you're shooting.
APA's speed boost applies against the base turn, and while every bit helps the slower carriers, it's not going to be a huge help, especially with the cooldown time. You should learn to do 'extreme backing' in a carrier, put it in reverse and hit Evasive Maneuvers or Deuterium Surplus to line up things.
If you don't like escorts then definitely go with the Atrox. She's only a little bit slower than the oddy. and when set up right is an amazing ship...
The armitage is an escort, and needs to be flown like one.
As others have mentioned, I would go with all Beam Arrays, Tetryon/Phased Tetryon or Phased Polaron or Disruptors.
You're Fighters are your DPS and you want to keep a steady stream of those things coming off the line. Your primary weapons are just for Shield Stripping and Debuffing.
To boost your Fighters' dps even more, Gravity Well III is a must, imo. I also use Energy Siphon II.
As to what fighters to use, it's really up to you. They all have their own advantages. With my setup, I primarily use 2 Advanced Peregrine Fighter Hangars. Sometimes 1 Adv. Stalker and 1 Adv. Peregrine.
For Tac abilities, I use TTI and FAWII. There's also a Tropedo build you can reference if you sift through the forums.
As for the Armitage, yes, it's an Escort with a Hangar. Typically, you'd set it up like any other Escort, or at least like the Fleet Escort, given it has a similar layout and stats, save for the secondary Tac Boff.
I have both and like them equally for different reasons. I'm currently using the Atrox, anxiously awaiting the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier.
The Atrox is a tough and slow sci ship, not optimized for PVP because of the nerfs to sci skills but still enjoyable and a welcome addition to most teams. It makes an excellent "anchor/tank" and is one of the few ships that "almost anything BUT anti-proton" is the correct weapon energy type. Disruptors and phased-TRIBBLE seem to be the best pick with their team focused procs. The proper combination of crowd control and heals will be determined by your PVP(CC heavy) and PVE(support heavy) tendencies. As long as you can get 80% or better up time on EPTS and a MACO, Aegis or Jem'Hadar shield you're own survivability should be pretty good for PVE.
WARNING UNSOLICITED ADVICE BELOW!!!!
doomicile gives good advice about keeping your AUX power high and using gravity well 3 for CC while flying a sci ship, especially the Atrox.
If it was my Atrox I'd avoid all turret based builds like the plague, they have a good proc rate but the damage drop off over distance doesn't seem worth it. Beam array builds do more damage at a range of 4 KM or better and with the Atrox's slow moving TRIBBLE chasing down targets is an option of last resort.
If you set your weapon power to 25 or so having a 5 or more beam broadside or BFAW will probably be more than your ship can support well. After some quick checking with the Starship Weapons calculator power levels of 50-75 prefer 2 or 1 dual beam banks respectively for DPS maximizing. It actually predicts losing DPS on your broadside from having to much energy drain at those power levels, that said the increased proc rate might be worth the lost damage to you. The Jem'Hadar shield and engine would boost your weapon power and polaron energy damage, with phased polaron weapons that could make a nice difference in your personal DPS and leave you tough enough for Elite STF's, possibly even PVP.
If this is your first carrier some personal advice for you is to adjust your HUD so that you can always see the health of your ships and how many are alive, healing them is pointless just spawn more when they get too damaged or too many die. Get the Dil store versions A.S.A.P. and don't be afraid to change out which fighter's you're using based on what you are doing and your play-style.
Twelve A. Peregrines shooting quantum torpedoes and dual phaser cannons at borg nodes will make short work of them, set to intercept mode they will wreck opposing fighters.
Eight A. Runabouts will tractor beam 2 and choronite torpedo spam anything into a negative defense score eventually.
Kyle
I have a couple of reasons, bad personal experience with cannon builds on other slow turning cruisers, the loss of subsystem targeting, the thought of only having three turrets in the back 180 degrees of the ship, and the extreme damage drop off over range cannons suffer from.
A beam array build like I spec'd tends to put out more DPS at the 5-10KM range then a cannon build. At about 6 KM the 2x beam arrays and 1x DBB actually start to out DPS all 6 cannons when the power levels are in the 50-75 range, the lower your weapon power the shorter the range when beams are better. The beam arrays always out DPS three turrets in the back 180 and that only get's worse with range.
Now at close range and low power, 0-5 KM and 50-75 energy for this discussion, the cannons do more damage but until you have a target within 4 KM it's pretty negligible. The higher your weapon power levels the better cannons do, but even at 125 weapon power the three beams on the front end are doing more damage then all 6 cannons at 7 KM or so. The five beam array broadside pulls ahead at 2 KM range under those conditions, that's pretty damn close.
P.S. All the above math is based on the Starship Weapons Calculator and considers no BOFF skills so it may be a little off.
Escorts are frankly the best ships in the game, since damage is king.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
orondis, kind of hard to do DPS when you are dead. If you have not tank then you take a lot of extra fire. If escorts were really the best then everyone would use them am I right? Then why are there a lot of Eng. and Sci. ships?
Yes DPS is king, but escorts are not the only DPS ships. Carriers are the others. Hence this thread.
Kyle
You say you havent had much success with escorts, IMHO I dont think you will be getting any more success with any other kind of ship. Maybe its just because you havent tried the top tier ships yet. In that case I suggest the Armitage. Its an all around great ship. Its a very sturdy ship and you can have some fun with the pets. You can fit an Extends on it for protecting targets.
The Atrox is more of an Engineer's ship. You can protect yourself with your native Engineering abilities which frees up your Boff abilities to heal others.
Science can do ok in it too.
Kyle
It's the sturdiest of all escorts (it can run Emergency Power to Shields 3 and has plenty of room for Tactical Teams), plus it can use shield drones to further buff its defenses (and still deal a bucketload of dps, as it's still an escort otherwise).
Besides, no other escort can use its fighters to take down high yields or mines...so yes, it's a VERY sturdy ship...for an escort.
The Armitage isnt a tank, but it doesnt need to be because Cyptic makes PvE so laughable.
Anything with 3-piece borg, cycling EPS and has shield distribution officers is tough enough for PvE.
Ill say it again.
About the only thing it doesn't do appreciably well is fly as a High-Aux heal boat (the Atrox stomps it there, no qustion). It can be extremely durable, BFI DOffs (plenty of room for a pair of them, thanks to having plenty of ENS slots for TT), RSP, and EPtS3 (on an escort!) lead to a ship that's not getting one shotted by anything other than a shield-ignoring super torpedo.
Oh, just remember, that as an escort, it's busy. If you're making the most of your pets by micro-managing them, you'll easily find the workload doubled over something like, say, the Patrol Escort.
You fly 125 weapon power in a sci ship? A sci ship where you ignore the free sub system targeting by not even running one beam weapon? You have 3xDHC's on a ship with a turn rate of 5? You are a little weird there kyle.
As for escorts, they are more than tough enough for PVE play in the hands of a decent pilot, look at corsair114, hyprodimus and thibash's post, that's all true, we're not lying to you.
On a side note, that blockade build sounds interesting Corsair, I hit them with Tac team 1, Aux2Str1, TSS and HE then go to town with my fighters set to intercept or defend. I might try out an EPtS1, Aux2Str1, ES engineer now.
Ok, yes STFs and PVE are really easy now. But here is the challenge. I do the fleet alert a lot. This has now happened a few time. I have been in a few where there are only me, in an Atrox, and 2 escorts. Usually the Armitage. Here is my question to you all, can the Armitage tank both fleets and heal both escorts while blowing up most of the ships? Before you say the other 2 ships are weak, they are skilled pilots but they cannot tank 30 ships. The Atrox can.
And yes it has a turn rate of 5. Yes I do not use subsystem targeting. I used beam for a the first day and every time I used SST it failed. Have you ever used this ship with end lvl gear? my ship turns about 8-9 degrees sitting still, faster turning with speed.
Please don't say this ship cannot do DPS, this ship is one of the best at DPS. It can DPS some escort ships with no problem.
P.S. I may be weird, but I don't care. Where is the fun in normal?
Kyle
Well yeah...only for the past four months. Its always assumed that people are max level with end level gear unless they say otherwise.
You may be having fun, but you are also telling people to spend real money on a ship that they wont be effective in. You are telling them to buy a fridge just so they can heat themselves with the heat exchange coils at the back.
I said that because I have had many events where it is just 2 or 3 people. Yes with 5 people you can run just about anything, but with just 2 or 3 builds really feel the pressure.
Kyle
I could probably tie up both waves in the Fleet Alert if necessary, but generally am about 10-20km from the other wave (as I tend to try and catch them on point, that way when they if they do get within range of the STB, their numbers and firepower are dramatically decreased). If push comes to shove, there's been a few situations where I was flying circular strafing runs around the STB while I had ES2 on it to keeps its shield intact while mowing down the enemies in the alert. My gear is not optimal, but I'll post what I'm running on my Escort Carrier below.
Front: 3 Phaser DHC Mk XI anti-borg / 1 Photon Torpedo anti-borg
Rear: 3 Phaser Turret Mk XI anti-borg
Deflector: Borg
Engines: Borg
Shields: MACO Mk XI Resilient shields
ENG Con: Torpedo PDS / 2 Neutronium Mk X Rare
SCI Con: Borg Assimilated Console / Field Generator
TAC Con: 3 Phaser Relay Mk X rare / 1 Photon Torpedo Detonator Console Mk XI Rare (it'll turn into a phaser console sooner or later, probably)
Hangar: Advanced Peregrine Fighters
BOffs:
CMDR Tac: Torpedo Spread 1 / Attack Pattern: Beta 1 / Cannon Scatter Volley 2 / Attack Pattern: Beta 3
LT Tac: Tactical Team 1 / Cannon Scatter Volley 1
ENS Tac: Tactical Team 1
LTC Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1 / Emergency Power to Shields 2 / Extend Shields 2
LT Sci: Hazard Emitters 1 / Transfer Shield Strength 2
Note, this setup does have one really annoying weakness for PvE, a cookie to whoever can pick it out. PvP'ers, yes, it's got about a dozen fatal flaws, but I don't fly it in PvP for a reason.
Thats what I (and most other people) run on my escorts. You really have it backwards.
The Atrox is not a Tactical captain ship
The End
corsair114 that is the idea I try to use. The problem I have run into is that someone comes in and trolls. Meaning he brings both fleets next to each other inside of across the map. Across the map is easy and just about anything can take it down.
I couldn't really see the flay, just that your gear was not mk 12 and not anti-proton.
Kyle
Armitage all the way mate if your a Tactical Officer and I would use torpedoes simply because of the Photon defense console, using that in combination with Torpedo Spread III launches a massive amount of torpedoes with some very serious dps.
The Atrox is not really suited for a Tactical Officer its a Science ship so unless you have so friends or in a fleet to get others to train your Sci bridge officers your skills as a Tactical to use to be honest will be ****.
I get really annoyed when I have to play with people using an Atrox as some half assed tactical ship because they are letting the team down with there selfish playing style its a support ship and as for putting cannons on a support ship thats just lols, cannons are only effective at less than 5km given its a support ship it should be sitting around 9km from target so Beams are a better long range weapon. It gets very annoying when playing tactical with a Sci officer who won't heal or support you or the team.
But thats just me, If you like a ship buy it who really cares what others think. Just don't go letting the team down lol.
Serious PvE build = escort. Everything else is just for fun.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Come on. It can use cannons because it is one of the few ships that it works with. Plus the fighters just add to it. And please, I stay about 3 KM from my target. That is closer than most escorts, most of them sit at 7.
Kyle
Kyle
I disagree. Saying you can afford a real money item implies that you have enough money to throw down Cryptic/PWE's hole. That means you're either making money or cavalier with money, and either way, that can be interpreted as a positive (more the former than the latter).
The converse is that in-game money items cost time, and time is money. Some folks grind for weeks or even months to buy a high-end ship or enough Zen to buy a C-store ship, and not everyone can afford to pay that time. Some folks have lives, ideally ones that make them enough money to afford real money items.
The above is especially true when it comes to expensive EC items like Lobi or Lockbox ships on the Exchange. It's damned expensive and time-consuming to gather the tons of EC necessary to buy, say, a 400-million-EC bug, because you simply can't spend real money to buy EC (barring illegitimate RMT operations). Sure, you can farm Dilithium, sell it for Zen on the exchange, and then use the Zen to buy Fleet Modules or Master Keys and sell those on the exchange, but that method is slow, unreliable, and vulnerable to market forces.
With this in mind, I think it might be worthwhile for Cryptic to think of creating a more direct method of making EC. How about making Dilithium exchangeable for EC, but not the other way around? This discourages gold farmers attempting to farm EC (which is faster than Dil) for C-points, and allows regular players an easier way to play the exchange.
The only (admittedly nasty) side effect I see from that is that EC prices for regular items will probably jump, and maybe everything will return to square one.
Oh theres plenty of those not to mention some of the other classes.
The missions we are talking about here are "Group" missions they are not every man for him self, your supposed to play as a team. Just going in there and doing what ever the hell you like is not Team work remember there is no "i" in "Team".
No people automatically think your there to help the Team because as you say your in a support ship so yeah an escort should go flying past you because there attack class you are not.
As above your a support ship your the one who should be sitting at 7km, look mate my Kar fi can out dps most things too and yes it has cannons on it but it is a support ship I will sit back and constantly heal an escort even if I can out dps him/her it's not my job to ignore the rest of the team and go in guns blazing.
If your interested I can tell you of a way to make 1mill ec easy a day if not more but it will cost Dilithium not much though.
Send me a pm if your are interested and I'll respond, I don't wanna say it in public as the more people know about it the less you earn.
Theres also a few other ways especially now with fleet assignments requiring replicatable items that are selling on the exchange for a massive mark up, I just assume people must not realise they can replicate most of those items lol. Put it this way you can replicate a common battery for next to nothing but on the exchange they sell 10 times if not more than the replicatable price.