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tactical regent class DPS/TR build help.

neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Federation Discussion
take pity on a cruiser n00b please.

Okay, so i'll make this simple. I used cruisers until i tried out the tactical escort and since then i've used the tact escort, fleet escort, recon science, heavy escort carrier, tact escort retrofit, and the orb weaver.

I've loved all these ships, even the recon science and orb weaver can toss out a damn good beating.

I tried going back to the assault cruiser a few days ago and found it incredibly unfun and difficult to use. I'm planning on buying the regent because even though it does not have the 10th console slot i hoped it would, the boff setup is much more tactical friendly.

So i'm looking for help to make the ship maneuverable and as DPS heavy as possible.

my current setup includes the following. all in their highest rank (mk xii or xii unless otherwise noted)

front
2x phased tetryon dual beams
1x tetryon dual beam
1x rapid reload transphasic torpedo launcher

rear:
2x phased tetryon beam arrays
1x tetryon beam array
1x Thermionic Torpedo Launcher

engineering: 1x RCS 40% 3x RCS 37.5%
Science: 1x emitter array +30 1x Field Generator +20
tactical: 3x tetryon pulse generator +30%

Maco MK XI engines and mk X shields and deflector. I also have the aegis kit available.

my boff setup isn't really worth bosting since i've been using non engineering ships for a long time. and i already know i'm going to have to do some massive changes to make this ship work since my entire boff setup is based around tactical and science ships.

So i'm really looking for advice on the weapons setup and massive help on what boff abilities are the best to use. I'm looking more for DPS than tanking as i only play PVE and i know the 4 RCS consoles is a little stupid, but i like having that maneuverability and if there is some other way to pull it off i'll gladly do it.

hopefully you guys can help me out and give me some great ideas and setup. thanks in advance.
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Post edited by neok182 on

Comments

  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    neok182 wrote: »
    I'm planning on buying the regent because even though it does not have the 10th console slot i hoped it would,

    None of the C-store ships besides the Oddy and Fleet variants ("C-store" since you need flet modules) have 10 consoles, so that expectation is bogus. But whatevs.

    Please keep in mind that I'm kind of a cruiser noob as well. As an Engi I mostly flew science until I switched to the Armitage and Defiant-R, with minimal practice in a Mirror Assault. I also don't have a damage parser, so all of this is conjecture based on forum advice and practice.
    the boff setup is much more tactical friendly.

    This is true, in as far as the science Boff slot is now a universal boff slot, allowing more slotting of DPS-friendly Tac abilities. Otherwise the setup is identical to the standard Sovereign (or Mirror Assault).

    Thusly, if you slot in any "standard" science abilities (like Hazard Emitters and Transfer Shields), you basically get nothing new besides the torpedo and metreon gas, and your Regent will be as unfun as your Sovereign is now. Slotting in Engineering Abilities that improve your DPS (Directed Energy Modulation is the only one I can think of right now, and that's indirect) could change things, but Tac seems the way to go for now.

    There's a thread on the regent in this forum with a bunch of theoretical builds (they can't be tested until it's out and the numbers are crunched).

    Given the fancy new wide-arc torpedo and more potential tac slots, my impression of the Regent is that it is intended to deliver broadsides and spamming Tactical Team, Fire At Will and Torpedo abilities.

    With that in mind, I came up with the build below. It sacrifices science abilities to run extra copies of beam and torp enhancers, and tunes engineer abilities and gear to increase general survivability, since the lost science abilities reduce the ability to heal debuffs. I'm an Engi captain with more heals naturally, so you may end up squishier if you're a pure tac.

    I'm generally biased against Beam Overload (drains weapon power) and Target Shields (STF targets are mostly armor), but those skills can have their uses.

    I didn't include a Dual Beam Bank, since a broadside machine doesn't use much of the forward arc. I put in a rear torpedo for when I change orbits, and because slotting mines would require wasting slots on dispersal patterns and mine-boosting consoles, but a 7th beam could also work if you go for more beam abilities instead of torpedoes. I dropped Eject Warp Plasma since the Metreon Gas console copies that, and use extend shields for token team support (a hull heal might be better for non-engies).

    Also, since broadsiders don't move a lot, the RCS consoles are a waste. And since you have no science, science consoles are also moot (use for shield boosting instead).

    Ensign Tactical: BFAW-I
    Lieutenant Commander Tactical: Tac Team-I, Torp Spread II, BFAW-III, APB-III (or APO-III)
    Commander Engineer: EPTS-I, RSP-I, EPTS III, Extend Shields III (or Aux2SIF III, since w/o science hull heals needed)
    Lieutenant Engineer: EPT Weapons I, Eng Team II (need debuff cleanser, could go vice-versa)
    Lieutenant Universal (TAC): Tac Team-I, Torp Spread II (or Torp High Yield or Beam: Target Shields II if I want to go beam heavy)

    (If/When I get them I may try out Phased Tetryons or Phased Polarons, but Phasers are what I own for now)

    Fore Weapons: 3x Phaser Beam Arrays & WAQTL
    Aft Weapons: 4x Phaser Beam Arrays or 3x Arrays + 1 Quantum Torp Launcher

    Ship Equipment:
    -MACO Deflector
    -Borg Engines
    -MACO MK XII Shield
    *You may want to consider Omega parts, but IMO you'll need the healing more than the tetryon glider*

    Devices:
    -Scorpion Fighters (or Phaser Turret)
    -Subspace Field Modulator
    -Dual Battery (Weapons/Shields)
    -Deuterium surplus (or turret)


    Engineering Consoles:
    *Still evaluating use of specialized armor vs. Neutronium*
    2x Neutronium
    - Metreon Gas
    -Borg Assimilated Module

    Science Consoles:
    -MK XI Field Emitters
    -MK XI Field Emitters (or Grappler if tractor substitute needed)

    Tactical Consoles:
    *could go vice-versa if torps work out well*
    - Quantum console
    - MK XII Phaser Relay
    - MK XII Phaser Relay

    As for gear, you may want disruptors (resistance Debuff) or Antiprotons (extra crits). I'm using phasers because they're what I've got, but if I grind more I could switch.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2012
    If you put 4 RCS into your Cruiser... just fly an Escort instead.

    Honestly it sounds like you don't enjoy flying slow turning cruisers. Perhaps that style of play is just not for you and you'd be better off not buying this ship.

    That's not meant to be an insult to either the original poster or the new ship but it really sounds like it's going against his preferred play style.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
    If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
    When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
  • neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    @unangbangkay: i realize now that i shouldn't of expected the 10th slot. I basically figured since the fleet assault cruiser was never brought over to the holodeck that when this was announced that it would have those stats and there wouldn't be a fleet version of this ship. Hence hoping for the 10th console.

    thank you for the excellent writeup. especially the device recommendations. always kinda ignored devices. never thought of using two emitters since i have the generator. i'll give that a shot. might help out my other ships as well.

    does seem like i'm going to have to just deal with it and broadside.

    @dknight001: i don't enjoy the slow turning, but i love the ships. the 8 weapon slots, lots of hull and shields, i just hate how slow they turn. especially considering in the films they turn so much faster. but i understand it's for balance. i don't take it as an insult since i do understand the reasoning. it's just that for as much as i love the escorts, i love the cruisers so much too. hence why i went to the recon science and the orb weaver, but i've always hoped for a +1 sovvy and finally it's here so i'm going to give it a shot.

    i've always put the 4 RCS in to give it some real maneuverability and to get maximum use out of the dual beams, but i think i may give broadsiding a shot and see how it goes.

    Considering doing 2 RCS, borg and the metron gas for engineering and seeing what happens. it'll be a much less turn rate, but probably enough to at least make turning a little bit easier.

    Really hope that maybe we get a tier 6 fleet version with the extra console slot, +1 turn rate and the +3900 hull that the fleet assault did.
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  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    After thinking about it for a little bit I think going with 7 beams and 1 launcher (the wide arc), is better than going 6 beams with 2 launchers (regular in the rear or vice-versa).

    Why? In practice whenever I use a slow-turning vessel there's always a temptation to put my back to an enemy to use that 2nd launcher*. That's a problem, since the best technique for any broadside-oriented build is to keep your broadside to an enemy, where the 270-degree arrays will overlap each other, placing maximum beams on target. Turning away to use the 2nd launcher denies 3 full weapon arcs for several seconds, reducing DPS.

    *A possible exception could be to use a rear tricobalt launcher. The cooldown on that beast is so long you'll only ever about-face when you change course or intend to get away from the target before it explodes.

    The wide-angle torpedo then becomes simply a torpedo you can fire with less turning, meaning you can hit an enemy once the shields are down more quickly, or take out a lightly shielded swarm (probes in KAS) without changing your course.

    Losing the second launcher also means you can focus on using beam-boosters in your tactical consoles, since the torpedo attack is just gravy rather than a huge part of your overall DPS.

    Regarding Boffs, the 2nd torp spread from my build above can be replaced with High Yield (for spike damage), or an exotic beam attack (target shields or beam overload). An attack pattern could also work (say Beta II or Omega I in your LTC slot), but you would also sacrifice the face-melting ability of a Fire at Will III.

    Furthermore, projectile doffs can overcome the low rate of fire from the single launcher (which could be important if Cryptic nerfed the cooldown to make up for the wide arc), increasing DPS without wasting a weapon.

    The main concern that arises from this is power drain, which with 7 beams is significant. Engineer captains have EPS Transfer and Nadeon Inversion to help with this, but Tac and Sci captains may want to replace an Engineering Team or Reverse Shield Polarity with a second EPTW, though that may cause problems with the EPTS cycle, which in turn could be an issue with squishiness.

    What do you guys think?
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    First I believe there is some confusion. There is no commander tac slot. so you cannot slot APO III. Second, have you considered running the jem'hadar engines they have one of the highest turn rates in the game. As I recall the regent has almost the same base turn rate as the excelsior and I managed to get around 12 degrees a sec out of mine without rcs consoles. Also if you want a tac heavy fast turning cruiser get the ops oddy. Once you seperate the chevron you get a bonus 8 degrees a sec plus a universal LTC slot mine gets around 18 degrees a sec when im seperated.
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  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    First I believe there is some confusion. There is no commander tac slot. so you cannot slot APO III.

    Oh TRIBBLE, you're right. I'll have to rearrange my build a bit it seems. I still want broadsides, but this'll need tweaking. Probably dropping the 2nd torp spread for APB I. Makes the torpedo less attractive, but with the arc and 2x Fire At Will I'll probably still shoot it as often as I do on my Armitage.
  • neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    @unangbangkay that sounds pretty good. i've never run into any power issues, most likely due to the red matter battery. back before i switched to escorts i did use a tricobalt on the back specifically because of that long reload time.

    @disposableh3r0: interesting. i'll be sure to give those engines a shot. i was seriously considering getting the tac oddy but i really didn't like the oddy much. just a little too fat and big for my taste, hence why i've been excited for this ship.

    This is why we need a damn way to test drive the ships. lol
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  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    neok182 wrote: »
    @unangbangkay that sounds pretty good. i've never run into any power issues, most likely due to the red matter battery. back before i switched to escorts i did use a tricobalt on the back specifically because of that long reload time.

    @disposableh3r0: interesting. i'll be sure to give those engines a shot. i was seriously considering getting the tac oddy but i really didn't like the oddy much. just a little too fat and big for my taste, hence why i've been excited for this ship.

    Speaking of the Oddy, does the default Oddy (or the C-store one) use the cool bridge from the mission where you visit the Enterprise-F? I'd use it if that were the case :D
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Well omega I is still useable or BO3 if you keep your weapons power high enough you barely notice the power drain. My oddy has a similar set up I have TT1 x 2 THY2 BO2 and APO1 but im also using a tac captain so I have alpha as well.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Speaking of the Oddy, does the default Oddy (or the C-store one) use the cool bridge from the mission where you visit the Enterprise-F? I'd use it if that were the case :D

    IDR if the anniversary oddy used it but the cstore ones have it as an option.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    neok182 wrote: »
    @unangbangkay that sounds pretty good. i've never run into any power issues, most likely due to the red matter battery. back before i switched to escorts i did use a tricobalt on the back specifically because of that long reload time.

    @disposableh3r0: interesting. i'll be sure to give those engines a shot. i was seriously considering getting the tac oddy but i really didn't like the oddy much. just a little too fat and big for my taste, hence why i've been excited for this ship.

    This is why we need a damn way to test drive the ships. lol

    Gey the Ops Oddy instead like i said if you jettisosn the chevron and 1500 of your fattest crewmen you get an 8 degree a second boost to your turn rate or get the pack since the 3 piece bonus is rather nice. if you get the set i recomend using the sci oddy since you end up burning 4 console slots just for the oddy goodies and the assimilated mod if you used the tac you would end up giving uop the extra tac slot for a uni console plus the sci had sensors analysis.

    mine looks like this.
    ENG
    oddy sep oddy worker bees neutronium armor x 2
    Sci
    oddy aquarius borg console field cap x 2
    Tac
    tetryon pulse gen x 2
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    After thinking about it for a little bit I think going with 7 beams and 1 launcher (the wide arc), is better than going 6 beams with 2 launchers (regular in the rear or vice-versa).

    Why? In practice whenever I use a slow-turning vessel there's always a temptation to put my back to an enemy to use that 2nd launcher*. That's a problem, since the best technique for any broadside-oriented build is to keep your broadside to an enemy, where the 270-degree arrays will overlap each other, placing maximum beams on target. Turning away to use the 2nd launcher denies 3 full weapon arcs for several seconds, reducing DPS.
    There are 2 wide arc 180 launchers in game. Why not fit the 180? missiles? 2 wide arc projectiles to help reduce drain on energy might work well.

    Thinking about 2 wide arch and 2 mines myself but would 4 beam arrays be enough? Perhaps 5 arrays? Perhaps shield drain mines and tractor mines?
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    There are 2 wide arc 180 launchers in game. Why not fit the 180? missiles? 2 wide arc projectiles to help reduce drain on energy might work well.

    Thinking about 2 wide arch and 2 mines myself but would 4 beam arrays be enough? Perhaps 5 arrays? Perhaps shield drain and tractor mines?

    The problem with the missiles is that I can't get them anymore. Not without spending an obscene amount on the exchange. And unless they're confirmed to work with regular torpedo powers I'm not sure they're worth it.

    Like I said in my thread, if I only have 1 wide-arc weapon it's more effective for me to just fire it fast with the help of projectile doffs, than waste time turning my slow TRIBBLE. Besides, as an Engineer captain I have many powers to help with the energy drain.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    They do work with regular torpedo powers and I was thinking the two torpedoes together with doffs keeps both firing at max speed.
  • neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    @unangbangkay: only the c-store oddys have that bridge. the anniversary oddy has another prototype version. and no where near as cool. guess i missed on the part where you get to visit that bridge. i've never seen it other than pictures. :(

    i've really wanted the missles as well but the prices on the exchange are just a joke.

    i may look into the oddy again, but still leaning more towards this since i just don't really like the oddy that much.
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  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    OK, after some practice in STFs I've made some notes:

    - Wow, that power drain from 7 beams is CRAZY. Even with the Engi's extra power abilities I may have to consider running an EPTW cycle when I'm not running an EPTS cycle. The risk there is sacrificing my main hull heal (Aux2SIF) or a shield heal like RSP or Extend Shields.

    - I've dropped the 7th beam. In practice I just can't maintain the "perfect" orbit needed to broadside 24/7, which means I need to make the most of the few moments when my back is to the enemy, and the power drain is just too much. That means either a "parting shot" tricobalt/quantum or mines in the back. Folks who own the other 180 missile launcher in addition to this ship will have a LOT of fun (if they like broadsides).

    -The wide-angle torp is probably best in the back, because enemies are more likely to enter that arc when you're course correcting or when you're angling for a Metreon Gas dispersal.

    - The Metreon Gas is amazing. Well, it looks amazing, at least. In practice it's like a mix of the ground Transphasic Bomb skill and Eject Warp Plasma. You lay down the gas field, and after a couple of seconds you press the button again and detonate for big damage. Not so useful unless you've been killing their shields with beams, but when you do it it looks like your ship is FARTING EXPLOSIONS.
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