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HEY AL RIVERA: Which cannon is meant for which ship?

tripwire690tripwire690 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Federation Discussion
Yup. We have dual heavy cannons, dual cannons, and single cannons. Out of the 3 only single cannons have a better arc. Sto wiki states plainly that the narrower the arc the more powerful the weapon. If this is true then it leads to another question. Why do dual cannons have the same arc as a dual heavy? Why isn't their Arc in between a dual heavy and a single cannon?

These are good questions for a Dev to answer since the majority of pvp escorts in the game not only DO NOT use dual cannons, but don't use single cannons either. That's right. 90% of the pvp community DOES NOT use anything other than dual heavy cannons on their escorts. Why? Because the community as a whole cannot see the value damage-wise or volley-wise to use anything other than a dual heavy cannon on their escorts for only the most effective pvp gameplay. So i'd love to hear YOUR explanation on which ship each cannon type is meant to be used on and WHY. Because it seems a waste whenever players generally will not use a particular skill or weapon in any game.

-Captain Tripwire-
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Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Post edited by tripwire690 on

Comments

  • aytanhiaytanhi Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Makes sense to me.
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  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yup. We have dual heavy cannons, dual cannons, and single cannons. Out of the 3 only single cannons have a better arc. Sto wiki states plainly that the narrower the arc the more powerful the weapon. If this is true then it leads to another question. Why do dual cannons have the same arc as a dual heavy? Why isn't their Arc in between a dual heavy and a single cannon?

    These are good questions for a Dev to answer since the majority of pvp escorts in the game not only DO NOT use dual cannons, but don't use single cannons either. That's right. 90% of the pvp community DOES NOT use anything other than dual heavy cannons on their escorts. Why? Because the community as a whole cannot see the value damage-wise or volley-wise to use anything other than a dual heavy cannon on their escorts for only the most effective pvp gameplay. So i'd love to hear YOUR explanation on which ship each cannon type is meant to be used on and WHY. Because it seems a waste whenever players generally will not use a particular skill or weapon in any game.

    -Captain Tripwire-

    That was actually a sorta stupid question. Oh maybe it was you trying to be a smart TRIBBLE that comes off so stupid. But whatever. Dual cannons and dual heavy cannons have the same DPS. You likely noticed this. Maybe you didn't. So the weapons with the narrow arc are more powerful than the ones with the wide arc.

    Dual cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that happen on a per hit basis.

    Dual heavy cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that work off of base damage or ROF.

    So ships without the tac stations to buff cannons do better with standard duals.

    Like a KDF cruiser.

    Hey why aren't there any single heavy cannons? Now there's a question for you.
  • tripwire690tripwire690 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I don't appreciate your smart TRIBBLE response. If I dont know the answer to a question then its not stupid for me to ask it. I'm glad you know everything. I don't. And I'm glad it makes sense to Aytanhi. But it doesn't make sense to me. Oh and I asked Hilbert today Aytanhi. And he is also not sure WHY dual heavy cannons simply do more damage than duals. So since it makes so much sense to you perhaps you should explain it to Hilbert also. 90% of escort players in the pvp community don't use dual cannons. Not only that but there is no tool tip to say you are absolutely right.

    Your explanation seems rational. And it'd be awesome if you are correct. Maybe a Dev will respond to verify that you've got it right. But how is a beginning player to know that what you are saying is the way in fact the 3 cannon types are designed to work? Is everyone supposed to simply KNOW what the hell you do? By the way you mentioned only two of the three cannons I asked about. So where do single cannons fit into your perfect analysis of what everyone in this game should already know? You responded to my post assuming I should've learned what you learned about cannons the same way you learned it or somehow should miraculously know exactly how they work like maybe you do because your so damn smart. But you're not smart. You're just an TRIBBLE for assuming too much.
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    Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    So where do single cannons fit into your perfect analysis of what everyone in this game should already know?

    To be fair, your tone in the opening post was also sort of rude as well. Calling on a dev in all caps to answer a question you thought could only be answered by a dev instead of an experienced player, then acting on the assumption that:

    A. Cannons are only for escorts
    B. Only DPS is important (some would argue this, but that's neither here nor there)
    C. That because escort players favor dual heavies that the other cannons are broken/useless/unnecessary

    Tone is hard to convey over the internet, so the best way to do things if you don't want to sound like a total TRIBBLE is to be polite. A rude question is more likely to get a rude response.

    And to answer your question, only I believe the only cannons cruisers can mount are single cannons. Therefore, single cannons are for cruisers who want to mount cannons for whatever reason.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To address how to learn thongs in STO.
    STO explains very little so most players learn from asking or the old fashion way, by doing and experimentation.
    Both have the ability to teach well but asking is the best method given the number of experienced players in STO.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

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  • wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Here's a question. I know that the duals Proc better than the DHCs, but in the case of energy types which would they be most benificial? I'm currently using the DHC's with plasma on my defiant, but i was wondering if i shouldn't switch to dual just to cause more straight to ull damgae. Do the plasma fires still stack? or is it once the ship is on fire, there's only on instance of plasma fire on it?
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thissler wrote: »
    That was actually a sorta stupid question. Oh maybe it was you trying to be a smart TRIBBLE that comes off so stupid. But whatever. Dual cannons and dual heavy cannons have the same DPS. You likely noticed this. Maybe you didn't. So the weapons with the narrow arc are more powerful than the ones with the wide arc.

    Dual cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that happen on a per hit basis.

    Dual heavy cannons gain greater benefit from abilities that work off of base damage or ROF.

    So ships without the tac stations to buff cannons do better with standard duals.

    Like a KDF cruiser.

    Hey why aren't there any single heavy cannons? Now there's a question for you.

    duel cannons better on kdf cruisers? i am afraid not. kdf cruisers, wile maneuverable, don't have even close to an escort's turn rate. DHC do their entire cycle worth of damage in about a second and a half with 2 seconds of down time. duel cannons need an entire 4 seconds on a target do deliver all the damage they can do in a cycle. for a ship with inferior maneuverability, i'll take the cannons that deliver their damage in the shortest window every time.

    i agree on single cannon though, they should be fireing heavy shots, wile turrets fire light shots. 3 shots per cycle with the same dps as current sounds about right. u turret can be a cut in half DC, and a single cannon can be a cut in half DHC.

    duel cannons ether need higher dps then DHCs or a higher fireing rate to break even
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    duel cannons better on kdf cruisers? i am afraid not. kdf cruisers, wile maneuverable, don't have even close to an escort's turn rate. DHC do their entire cycle worth of damage in about a second and a half with 2 seconds of down time. duel cannons need an entire 4 seconds on a target do deliver all the damage they can do in a cycle. for a ship with inferior maneuverability, i'll take the cannons that deliver their damage in the shortest window every time.

    i agree on single cannon though, they should be fireing heavy shots, wile turrets fire light shots. 3 shots per cycle with the same dps as current sounds about right. u turret can be a cut in half DC, and a single cannon can be a cut in half DHC.

    duel cannons ether need higher dps then DHCs or a higher fireing rate to break even

    But that's the point of dual cannons having a larger arc! Slow-turning cruisers need maximum coverage to set up broadsides so they can fire while turning. Escorts turn on a dime and are expected to be facing the target at all times, hence the optimum 3-turret aft arrangement.

    Sure, small-arc DHCs do more damage in a shorter period, but what about when you turn the cruiser and lose your arc? You'll spend more time getting facing forward again, during which time your DHCs are NOT firing. And turrets have 360 coverage and as such have the lowest DPS of all, since they can keep firing constantly and maybe make up for the burst in sustained damage. And besides, cruisers can't mount DHCs anyway, so it's a moot point.
    Here's a question. I know that the duals Proc better than the DHCs, but in the case of energy types which would they be most benificial?

    High-count weapons like the DC are most effective with energy types that stack and proc on a per-hit basis, like Tetryons, Phasers, and Polarons. Phaser procs may be less effective these days since there is now an enforced time-out when a Phaser causes a subsystem disable (after a phaser proc the target is shielded from further procs for 10 seconds or something). Tetryon weapons have chance-to-drain on per shot, and polarons too, so the more shots they fire, the higher the chance to proc.

    I don't know if Plasma fires stack (I don't believe they do), and Disruptors apply a flat debuff and don't stack, so they're not ideal with high-count weapons. Antiprotons are preferable as DHCs since their crit bonus stacks with the DHC crit bonus, making for super spike damage when they proc.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    But that's the point of dual cannons having a larger arc!

    lemmy stop you right there. they dont have a larger arc, they have the same arc DHCs have.
    High-count weapons like the DC are most effective with energy types that stack and proc on a per-hit basis, like Tetryons, Phasers, and Polarons. Phaser procs may be less effective these days since there is now an enforced time-out when a Phaser causes a subsystem disable (after a phaser proc the target is shielded from further procs for 10 seconds or something). Tetryon weapons have chance-to-drain on per shot, and polarons too, so the more shots they fire, the higher the chance to proc.

    I don't know if Plasma fires stack (I don't believe they do), and Disruptors apply a flat debuff and don't stack, so they're not ideal with high-count weapons. Antiprotons are preferable as DHCs since their crit bonus stacks with the DHC crit bonus, making for super spike damage when they proc.

    1. theres a loop hole in the phaser proc fix. it your already proced, you can be proced again, and until the first proc wares off. so when you need it most, it doesnt help

    2. procs arent per hit. they only have a chance to go off per cycle, not per shot. DHCs have the longest cycle so they are a t a slight disadvantage for proc rate, but its not becase they only fire 2 shots per cycle.

    3 plasma energy weapon procs stack. but the damage they cause is extreamly small, and you cant effectively use the energy type at and game because of the set shields so it almost doesn't even mater.
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    lemmy stop you right there. they dont have a larger arc, they have the same arc DHCs have.

    Whoops, you're right. I was thinking of single cannons at the time
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Whoops, you're right. I was thinking of single cannons at the time

    single cannons are only really a good fit on an excelsior or galor, but on a vorcha with 2 turn consoles you might as well use duel, its plenty viable
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    single cannons are only really a good fit on an excelsior or galor, but on a vorcha with 2 turn consoles you might as well use duel, its plenty viable

    That's why I mentioned cruisers in my comment.
  • tripwire690tripwire690 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    To address how to learn thongs in STO.
    STO explains very little so most players learn from asking or the old fashion way, by doing and experimentation.
    Both have the ability to teach well but asking is the best method given the number of experienced players in STO.
    To be fair, your tone in the opening post was also sort of rude as well. Calling on a dev in all caps to answer a question you thought could only be answered by a dev instead of an experienced player, then acting on the assumption that:

    A. Cannons are only for escorts
    B. Only DPS is important (some would argue this, but that's neither here nor there)
    C. That because escort players favor dual heavies that the other cannons are broken/useless/unnecessary

    Tone is hard to convey over the internet, so the best way to do things if you don't want to sound like a total TRIBBLE is to be polite. A rude question is more likely to get a rude response.

    And to answer your question, only I believe the only cannons cruisers can mount are single cannons. Therefore, single cannons are for cruisers who want to mount cannons for whatever reason.


    Rude Tone? No. It's not rude. But I could be. "Its a stupid question." Thats rude and the tone is plenty apparent. Cap's lock? I love how everyone imagines someone must be screaming or talking loud for some strange reason when caps are enabled. Some people use caps to emphasize as opposed to make their words emotional which I believe is what punctuation is actually intended to do. In any case to be honest I could be down right demanding. This information is not in the game. Its not on the sto wiki. And on top of that every escort and klingon cruiser comes equipped with DUAL CANNONS. So to clarify I was not being rude to Mr. Al Rivera. And if each ship has a logical choice for running a particular type of cannon then I can ask yet ANOTHER QUESTION. Why did Cryptic and/or Al Rivera give EVERY ESCORT and Klingon Cruiser and Bop DUAL CANNONS stock layout as opposed to giving some single cannons or Dual heavies as is being suggested is the proper cannon for this versus that ship?
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    Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Speaking about cannons. Why not let every ship use every cannon type ? After all, the turn rate pretty much dictates which one you will use. It's just artificial perk for escorts to use dual cannons, but it really is not needed. It would hardly break the game, while allowing some nice combos for people that can squize the maximum even from low turning ships.

    But to the subject. I would tone down dual cannons dps a little and increase their arc to something between dual banks and heady dual cannons.
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  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2012
    The arguments about DHC vs DC has gone back and forth forever in this game.

    DC's proc more crits so they do more damage over time.
    DHC's proc bigger crits so they do more burst damage.

    While I can't Guarantee the accuracy of either statement, in my experience DHC's do provide better DPS over DC's. Most of my Escorts carry 1 DC and 2 DHC with a Torpedo. Not the best combination out there, but I enjoy it and it works well enough for me.

    Not to mention Torpedoes are hilarious vs a RSP.
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  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Cap's lock? I love how everyone imagines someone must be screaming or talking loud for some strange reason when caps are enabled. Some people use caps to emphasize as opposed to make their words emotional which I believe is what punctuation is actually intended to do.

    "HEY AL RIVERA:"

    This is basically the text version of speaking loudly. If you were reading this line off a script to address Al Rivera, you would be raising your voice, regardless of what you think punctuation is for (not that you actually used it in your header to convey tone).

    And yes, shouting on the internet is in fact rude, just as shouting in public is rude.
    Why did Cryptic and/or Al Rivera give EVERY ESCORT and Klingon Cruiser and Bop DUAL CANNONS stock layout as opposed to giving some single cannons or Dual heavies as is being suggested is the proper cannon for this versus that ship?

    I'm going to be cynical here and state that Cryptic gives its escorts a mix of weapons (if I remember correctly my Defiant came with a Dual Beam Bank on it as well) because in their ideal conception of the game any mix is preferable and equally effective.

    This of course is not the case, and they could not be bothered to "re-represent" the ideal escort layout as discovered by players.

    That said, other exotic builds have certainly been tried and have thrived. Just as STO is more than its forum min-maxers say it is, so can your build.
  • tripwire690tripwire690 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    "HEY AL RIVERA:"

    This is basically the text version of speaking loudly. If you were reading this line off a script to address Al Rivera, you would be raising your voice, regardless of what you think punctuation is for (not that you actually used it in your header to convey tone).

    And yes, shouting on the internet is in fact rude, just as shouting in public is rude.



    I'm going to be cynical here and state that Cryptic gives its escorts a mix of weapons (if I remember correctly my Defiant came with a Dual Beam Bank on it as well) because in their ideal conception of the game any mix is preferable and equally effective.

    This of course is not the case, and they could not be bothered to "re-represent" the ideal escort layout as discovered by players.

    That said, other exotic builds have certainly been tried and have thrived. Just as STO is more than its forum min-maxers say it is, so can your build.


    Ahhh. so caps lock is socially accepted as screaming is it? Hmmm. MY APOLOGIES THEN. You still haven't explained single cannons to me. And your defiant did NOT come with a dual beam bank. It came with a single beam array. Again this post was meant to get a clarification from a Al Rivera. Your opinion is irrelevant. About the tone of my post and the person it was directed to. But this IS a public forum. I've read your reply to my post and its noted. If caps lock is socially accepted as screaming then I simply won't use it unless I'm intending to be taken as screaming or raising my voice. The point is this whole idea of "mixed preference" is obviously not very mixed at all when 90% of all escort pilots run dual heavy cannons. And if you think your "mixed" build can hold up to one of us "min-maxers" then ask for me in organizedpvp in game and we can test how well your exotic build thrives against a a min-maxed one.
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    Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    And if you think your "mixed" build can hold up to one of us "min-maxers" then ask for me in organizedpvp in game and we can test how well your exotic build thrives against a a min-maxed one.

    Oh no, my build isn't mixed at all. Like 90% of escorts, I run DHCs and Turrets. I'm just saying that the default loadout is more an expression of wishful thinking on the part of Cryptic rather than acknowledging what players have found out really works best (some exotic builds aside). I totally agree with you that the default setups are weird (and potentially misleading to new players who might use the loadout as a guideline) and probably need tuning, but in practice, there's no reason to use standard issue gear...ever. It's always common, always low-end, and sells for zero.
    You still haven't explained single cannons to me.

    Sorry, I made my comment about single cannons in a different thread. Single cannons are for cruiser captains who want to use cannons that aren't running Klink battle cruisers. Since single cannons have a 180 fire arc (and since cruisers can't mount DCs/DHCs), they're better suited to a cruiser's broadside bias. I can't remember if single cannons can be rear-mounted, but if they can, they can be a higher-ROF, higher-DPS alternative to turrets on a cruiser.
  • quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited August 2012
    The arguments about DHC vs DC has gone back and forth forever in this game.

    DC's proc more crits so they do more damage over time.
    DHC's proc bigger crits so they do more burst damage.

    While I can't Guarantee the accuracy of either statement, in my experience DHC's do provide better DPS over DC's. Most of my Escorts carry 1 DC and 2 DHC with a Torpedo. Not the best combination out there, but I enjoy it and it works well enough for me.

    Not to mention Torpedoes are hilarious vs a RSP.

    I can guarantee the inaccuracy of the former statement and the irrelevance of the latter.
    Crits aren't a good argument for DCs, lower Power Drain and [Borg] procs are.
    But anyway, I'd never fault anyone for using DCs over DHCs or vice-versa. Or even a combination of both; the case isn't clear enough to mathematically compare them (i.e. Power Drain mechanics apparently a aren't that straightforward or something).



    That being said, I do find it hard to justify single Cannons on any Ship:

    - Escorts? Nah, DCs/DHCs+Turrets, eventual Torps, Mines, DBB or even a rear Array; some even run pure Beamscorts. I wouldn't, but some do.
    - SVs? Nah, some favour BeamSVs, some (like myself) favour DBBs/Torps+Turrets/Mines, in neither case would single Cannons fit.
    - Carriers? Nah. They don't reallt have the Turn rate to make Cannons work.
    - Cruisers? Beams and Torps are standard, Mines not uncommon.
    Still, that's where you see them most often, on front-focused Cruisers that don't quite have the turn rate to make DBBs (or DCs/DHCs when applicable) work.

    All in all, single Cannons are very niche, a middleground between Arrays and DBBs that is very rarely justifiable: 180 isn't good enough for Broadsiding but is usually overkill when front-firing.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    without getting into the drama side of thing: There is a balance sheet, it ALWAYS includes counters. Why then is of three cannon types only one considered useful? (Dual Heavy Cannons, Gecko)?

    As for using single cannons on cruisers and SV, well since beam and cannon skills have been merged it became even more viable, still Singles seem niche at best, and so do duals. Compater to Dual/Single beams where this isn't the case. I m sure the Aventine will bring us some Cannony sci vessel that ll break cannon mechanics in game anyway. its coming soon(tm)
    Dear Devs please share your insights with us, because it doesn't make much sense from where we all stand.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2012
    Why did Cryptic and/or Al Rivera give EVERY ESCORT and Klingon Cruiser and Bop DUAL CANNONS stock layout as opposed to giving some single cannons or Dual heavies as is being suggested is the proper cannon for this versus that ship?

    I think I have a reason for this, back when the game launched Cannons shared a cooldown so only two DHC's could actually fire if you had a third it would never get a chance to fire. So they put beam arrays on to give you something that would fire.

    I know my old PVP config used to be 2x DHC, 1x DBB, 1x Torp, with turrets in the back. While a joke now it was good when four DHC's would only see two of them Firing.

    I don't quite recall but I believe that Single Cannons and turrets where exempt from this global cooldown for both Dual and Dual Heavies.

    @Havam, I don't know what you mean about Beam and Cannon Skills being merged. Do you mean BOFF abilities or the Skill tree?
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  • tripwire690tripwire690 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think I have a reason for this, back when the game launched Cannons shared a cooldown so only two DHC's could actually fire if you had a third it would never get a chance to fire. So they put beam arrays on to give you something that would fire.

    I know my old PVP config used to be 2x DHC, 1x DBB, 1x Torp, with turrets in the back. While a joke now it was good when four DHC's would only see two of them Firing.

    I don't quite recall but I believe that Single Cannons and turrets where exempt from this global cooldown for both Dual and Dual Heavies.

    @Havam, I don't know what you mean about Beam and Cannon Skills being merged. Do you mean BOFF abilities or the Skill tree?

    This is an awesome response. I never would've known as I don't believe I played until into the second month of the game. I don't ever remember this being the case. But if you're right then thats a very valuable piece of information which then explains alot. But nevertheless poses even ANOTHER question. Why haven't these weapons been updated to accomodate for this?
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    Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Rude Tone? This information is not in the game. Its not on the sto wiki.

    Which I explained "why" simply in my response. STO has a lacking for ingame info on many things.

    As for which cannons is meant for which ship?
    None are "meant" to be on any ship as the choice is up to the player and the descriptions of vessels merely states that they can or can not equip cannons.
    Dual cannons tend to be the generic, middle of the three choice as a default.

    KDF use more cannons in thier vessels due to the more warlike nature of the species and greater handling of the battle Cruiser in general.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

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  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    But nevertheless poses even ANOTHER question. Why haven't these weapons been updated to accomodate for this?

    It's simply not a priority. Even the newest players quickly learn on their own that there's little point to sticking with the standard-issue equipment, so Cryptic has yet to feel that the default loadouts need to be changed to reflect the new viability of pure cannon builds.

    As well, the update that did encourage escort players to switch to full DHCs was somewhat recent.
  • seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    A better question would be "Why are there no 360 degree beam turrets?"

    Seriously, similar dps to turrets but a beam.

    Pretty please.
  • tripwire690tripwire690 Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    bitemepwe wrote: »

    Which I explained "why" simply in my response. STO has a lacking for ingame info on many things.

    As for which cannons is meant for which ship?
    None are "meant" to be on any ship as the choice is up to the player and the descriptions of vessels merely states that they can or can not equip cannons.
    Dual cannons tend to be the generic, middle of the three choice as a default.

    KDF use more cannons in thier vessels due to the more warlike nature of the species and greater handling of the battle Cruiser in general.

    Good old Roach. I've enjoyed your presence on these forums for as long as I can remember playing the game and visiting this sunny side of the Empire. I"m not proposing the game should necessarily be on toddler mode. What I am suggesting is that basic information such as the default loadout reflecting the most optimized build a given ship class should consider would go a long ways to establishing an unwritten blueprint for players to resource as an effective layout and guideline.

    Such as all cannons and a quantum torpedo on escorts. Four single beam array and chronitons on science ships. Six single beam array's, a photon mine launcher and a photon torpedo on cruisers. Quantum and cannons on escorts for burst. Single beams for subsystem targeting and chroniton torpedoes for secondary effect supplemental to science skills on science ships. Six beams for sustained dps coupled with photons torpedoes as well as one aft mine launcher because of the fast recharge time and consistent firing rate used to compensate for lack of turn and manueverability on the cruiser. Just something so that regardless of how much a player might experiment they could always fall back on the stock build for general guidance to be as competitive as possible in pvE AND pvP.

    I don't assume to know what that build would be for everyone. I know what it looks like for me. I guess it could be argued that its possible that build is the one Cryptic currently has standard on all newly acquired ships. I agree information is and has been lacking in game. But part of having a healthy pvE AND pvP community is having educated players. And that means educational resources first and foremost in game.

    As far as one cannon or another not being "meant" for any one ship. I respectfully disagree good sir. As one player previously mentioned only certain cruiser can use duals and dual heavy cannons. So that would logically leave only single cannons for any other cruisers to run. Another example are dual beams which have a horrible arc. The same as cannons. It can also be logically concluded that they are meant for ships with superb turn rate to be able to effectively exploit their horrible arc while at the same time using their superb turn rate to also make up for the weapons lack of broadside and 110 degree blind spot. The best of these choices ship wise being an escort. And the least wise of these choices being a cruiser.
    starfleet_department_of_temporal_investigations_by_gazomg-da64jys.jpg

    Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think there's a lot of hearsay and rumor about this, and I'm not intending to add my own, but from what I can understand DCs have a lower damage-per-volley but fire more volleys per second. Big problem as far as I can see is that DHCs get an innate CritD which means DHCs will always out-DPS DCs over a decent enough timeline.

    DCs *in theory* would be useful for builds that want to proc a lot of on-hit effects. However, I've heard that it doesn't work as you'd think and so even in this case, DHCs are preferable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • corsair114corsair114 Member Posts: 276
    edited August 2012
    RE: Procs.


    There was some discussion on the nature of procs in the PVP forums by Borticus a bit before for the merge, with the takeaway being that damage type procs (Phaser disable, Polaron drain, etc.) were determined on a cycle-level for each weapon. In essence, when you fired your Polaron array at the very beginning it'd check to see if it proc'd.

    The Tetryon Glider effect of the two-piece Omega set works differently, as it rides on every pulse of damage your weapon deals. Plainly, a single array will deal Tetryon Glider damage four times in one firing cycle. This would make DC's and turrets outstanding for the Glider effect if the damage were not tied to weapon power level, which the constantly cycling DC's swallow wholesale, depleting your damage output, and moving further away from the instantaneous damage of DHC's.
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