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Outfitting Vor'cha-R, MU Battle Cruiser, Bortasq

red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Klingon Discussion
Hey, folks. Thus far on my KDF I've been using a Bird of Prey, and doing alright, but I'm also a big fan of cruisers Fed-side. However, I don't know the best way to outfit the KDF cruisers.

I'd like to take advantage of the ability to mount dual cannons/DHC and maneuverability if at all possible, but it seems like that will be very difficult. The Vor'cha-R has limited options for tactical BOff powers. The MU Battle Cruiser (have but haven't opened) has even more limited options. And the Bortasq (anniversary version) is so combersome it seems like it's almost impossible to use, dual cannons or not.

With these thoughts in mind I would appreciate any thoughts on how to best leverage these ships, and what I can do to make them a little different from their Fed counterparts but still useful/fun to fly.

Thanks for any help you can give me! Also, if it matters, my KDF is a Klingon tactical officer with the Accurate trait.
Post edited by red01999 on

Comments

  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2012
    I run a DHC Vor'Cha-R. It used to work great but they broke the mine deploy button, a few patched ago.

    1 or 2 Torps depending on your intent, 2 or 3 DHC's, 4 Turrets in the back.

    2 Neutronium, Isometric, RCS.
    Particle Generator, Field Generator
    Matching Energy Weapon "Doodaa's"

    TT1* > CSV1
    TS1

    EPtS1 > X** > Aux2SiF2 > EWP2***
    EPtS1 > RSP1 > DEM2

    PH1 > HE2

    * = Blue and Purple Conn Officer
    ** = Been so long since this worked I've forgotten the this ability
    *** = Anti-Matter DOFF

    Replace Isometric with Theta Vent and you may be able to ditch EWP

    I open fire, drop a shield facing, trap them in warp plasma, and drop the Trico Mine. Doen't work so great anymore, because firing the torpedoes will also fire the mine and firing the mine does nothing.

    And yes I've checked the binds. All torpedoes now includes all mines, and All mines now includes nothing.

    I'm thinking of very similar build for the MU-Vor'Cha. But I want to run, TS1 > TBR1 & HE1, basically I can heal a freighter and push and trap everything away from it. May loose torpedoes altogether on that version, maybe put some rear Chroniton Mines in.

    I run CSV & TS because AoE is generally a better choice than single target if you can't have both.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
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  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    For the Mirror Vor'cha, if you stack 2x uncommon or better Energy Weapons Specialists DOffs with Chance to reduce cooldown of cannon abilities, it will let you use the one cannon power a fair bit of the time. With those and Directed Energy Modulation the MU Vor'cha seemed surprisingly good with cannons when I was flying it.

    If you want the Vor'cha platform with more Tac spots there's now the Fleet Tor'Kaht with Lt. Com. and Lt. Tac spots. Pretty nice combo of tanking and firepower. I'm running Tac Team, CRF, and APO in the Lt. Com., and Torp Spread and CSV in the Lt. spot. A bit harder to get as you need a Fleet with Shipyard 2, 20,000 Fleet Credits, and 4 Fleet Ship Modules (500 Zen or about 6.5 Mil on the Exchange each Module) and your fleet needs provisioned for it (mine had more than 50 ship provisions when we hit shipyard 2, I'm guessing most will be well provisioned by that point too).
  • dashripkindashripkin Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    On that fleet Tor'Khat: I thought I read somewhere that with the fleet ships, if you already owned the C-Store version, it would only require one fleet ship module. I assumed that, since the Vor'Kang is a variant of the Tor'Khat, and I already owned the C-Store version of that, I would only need one module for the Tor'Khat. Turns out that is not so. I looked around, and as far as references to the fleet version only needing one module, it seems that they are always talking about T5's. Or did I miss something?
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  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dashripkin wrote: »
    On that fleet Tor'Khat: I thought I read somewhere that with the fleet ships, if you already owned the C-Store version, it would only require one fleet ship module. I assumed that, since the Vor'Kang is a variant of the Tor'Khat, and I already owned the C-Store version of that, I would only need one module for the Tor'Khat. Turns out that is not so. I looked around, and as far as references to the fleet version only needing one module, it seems that they are always talking about T5's. Or did I miss something?

    No KDF ships qualify, as it needs a T5 C-Store variant with console, and there are no KDF Fleet ships that meet those requirements. Tor'Kaht was just a skin prior to it being taken from the C-Store. Vor'Kang is T4. T5 are the Major General and Lieutenant General ships... hardly any at all in the C-Store and none have been refitted for fleet as of yet.

    The discount is not intended to help people get ships cheaper by having what they need already, but for those that want to buy the C-Store version of the fleet ship for the console along with the fleet ship. (see the last 'Ask Cryptic')
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I'm looking forward to getting the Fleet Vor'Cha, kind of a mini Bortas, similar boff layout, load DHCs etc. Sure less hull but it can maneuver decently and gets an extra sci console slot. Should be fun.

    Shame no KDF ships get module discounts. I've bought most KDF ships, seems like I have to buy them all again for fleet variants :(
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  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I'm looking forward to getting the Fleet Vor'Cha, kind of a mini Bortas, similar boff layout, load DHCs etc. Sure less hull but it can maneuver decently and gets an extra sci console slot. Should be fun.

    Shame no KDF ships get module discounts. I've bought most KDF ships, seems like I have to buy them all again for fleet variants :(

    I like the Fleet Tor'Kaht Vor'cha a lot better than the freebie/200K FC Bortas. Base turn of ten with maxed out impulse skill makes it plenty fast at turning for me without need of RCS consoles, especially since I can kick on APA (as a Tac captain) or APO if I need more in a pinch. It can tank pretty well too, a bit short of the Bortas/Odyssey's tanking ability, but not a huge gap.
  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I'd like to thank everyone for their replies, it's given me a lot to think about, and I'd encourage them to keep coming, this is very helpful.

    I would also like to ask, however, in addition to souping up the various Vor'cha permutations (which will probably become my main ship), if anyone has any thoughts on how to make the Anniversary Bortas usable. As I stated in my original post, it's so sluggish that I almost can't use it at all. So any thoughts on that would be appreciated - I'd rather not have a flagship doing nothing, after all.
  • gstamo01gstamo01 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    red01999 wrote: »
    I would also like to ask, however, in addition to souping up the various Vor'cha permutations (which will probably become my main ship), if anyone has any thoughts on how to make the Anniversary Bortas usable. As I stated in my original post, it's so sluggish that I almost can't use it at all. So any thoughts on that would be appreciated - I'd rather not have a flagship doing nothing, after all.

    You have to make your build to work with the poor speed, ergo, beam boat. 6 to 8 beam arrays(I always used 7 and 1 warhead) and two Fire@Will BOs.

    Take advantage of its Hull Strength with BO hull skills for hull taking goodness.

    That's about it really. This will normally put out more over all zone wide dmg than highest dps player in your zone.
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  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012

    Interesting. Which do you think is more effective, the DBB or the DHC? Cannons seem like they require a BOff to really get their effectiveness up there so you can rotate some iteration of CRF constantly.
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    red01999 wrote: »
    I would also like to ask, however, in addition to souping up the various Vor'cha permutations (which will probably become my main ship), if anyone has any thoughts on how to make the Anniversary Bortas usable. As I stated in my original post, it's so sluggish that I almost can't use it at all. So any thoughts on that would be appreciated - I'd rather not have a flagship doing nothing, after all.

    My sig has some builds you can look through, read the notes on each page for more info.

    I fly a command Bortasqu but compared to the regular Bortas it shouldn't be much different.
    A cannon build is still doable if you only PvE. Maybe 1 DHC then 2x single cannons for the 180 arc, then a torp. All turrets rear.


    I just use Evasive maneuvers when it needs to really get turning. With PvE though you can usually line up you next target reasonably, just plan ahead. Also reversing and turning is often quicker to get a bead on the target than moving forward whilst turning. APO helps with turn rate too.

    Just spec 9 into thrusters and get 2-3 purple conn officer doffs that reduce evasive maneuvers CD (purples reduce CD by 5s each). I think you can pop evasive every 30s? So that'd halve the time and just keep popping it when needed. Though I find every 30s to be enough, if not, APO is there.
    AFMJGUR.jpg
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    red01999 wrote: »
    Hey, folks. Thus far on my KDF I've been using a Bird of Prey, and doing alright, but I'm also a big fan of cruisers Fed-side. However, I don't know the best way to outfit the KDF cruisers.

    I'd like to take advantage of the ability to mount dual cannons/DHC and maneuverability if at all possible, but it seems like that will be very difficult. The Vor'cha-R has limited options for tactical BOff powers. The MU Battle Cruiser (have but haven't opened) has even more limited options. And the Bortasq (anniversary version) is so combersome it seems like it's almost impossible to use, dual cannons or not.

    With these thoughts in mind I would appreciate any thoughts on how to best leverage these ships, and what I can do to make them a little different from their Fed counterparts but still useful/fun to fly.

    Thanks for any help you can give me! Also, if it matters, my KDF is a Klingon tactical officer with the Accurate trait.


    It is so ridiculously easy to use Dual Cannons effectively on KDF cruisers that not doing so is extremely questionable. So use some. DEM is also a nice skill to use for fleet engagements. Its not as key in STF's, but in STF's just use BORG gear and your good to go.

    And the Bortas out of the entire group is the only one that really can't possibly use beams. It's far to slow.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt8-lDmbpeQ&feature=plcp Cannon Bortas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp This is actually a commander level D7 using cannons in stf's. Someone tell me again how dualies don't work on a cruiser.

    The second video does show beams vs cannons. The absolutely crazy moves you can do in anything that isn't a bortas allows for a fore and aft torpedo, and as that can be very handy its worth looking at.

    And that's different from flying a cruiser fed side, and its fun, and that was your question so I hope that helps you out.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    red01999 wrote: »
    Interesting. Which do you think is more effective, the DBB or the DHC? Cannons seem like they require a BOff to really get their effectiveness up there so you can rotate some iteration of CRF constantly.

    To CRF, or not to CRF?

    To constantly make use of CRF as much as possible, there's pretty much 2 ways of going about it.

    A. Using DOFFs that lessen Cannon ability cooldowns.
    B. Using multiple CRFs. Whether you do it with only 1 possible BOFF position like 1 LtCmdr TAC BOFF position (example: TT1, CRF1, CRF2), or two TAC BOFF positions in parallel (CRF2 x2 from 2 TAC BOFF slots, a LtCmdr and Cmdr positions together).

    For most cruisers outside the Fleet Vor'Cha and Bortasqu Cruiser derivatives, you will not be able to use multiple CRF. Most cruisers can consider themselves even lucky to have a Lt TAC BOFF slot anywhere, and that would be their best one. On a ship like that, you would have to give up alot of DOFF spots if you want CRF going as much as possible. For me, I was very content to have CRF going only on critical, most opportune times when flying the standard Vor'Cha Retrofit from BGen. The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.

    Now, DBB or DHCs. Firstly, the DBB is mostly a longer ranged weapon, compared to the in-your-face nature of cannons in general that hit harder the closer you are. The DBB damage does not drop off drastically with range, especially from 5k+ like cannons will. Beams in general are great steady damage weapons regardless of range, but in close range work, cannons will rock.

    For the Vor'Cha, you are given alot of offensive options. Outside of the fleet system's K'T'Inga Retrofits, all Vor'cha variants have the highest turn rates of any cruiser in the entire game for their appropriate tiers. 11 for the former, 10 for the latter, and the fleet system K'T'Inga Retrifits are essentially inferior in most parts to even the basic Vor'Cha at BGen. The Vor'Cha can readily do beam boat if you so wish, to include DBBs. But the strengths of the basic Vor'Cha make it the best, all-around, cannon-capable Cruiser in the game, simply because it has good general strengths as a cruiser, and great maneuverability to actually make bringing DHCs/DCs to bear on targets.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    You don't bother is the answer. You use torpedo abilities. And you use DEM if you want to boost cannon damage.

    If you have the Fleet or the Bortas then sure you can mess about with those cannon abilities as it becomes very beneficial to do so.

    Don't mess about with dual beams. There's just no reason to do so when with the high ROF of cannons on DEM.

    Unless you like the looks. If you like the looks then I fully support dual beams. I have one on my Karfi for that very reason. Plus I payed for the damn thing I'm using it.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To CRF, or not to CRF?

    To constantly make use of CRF as much as possible, there's pretty much 2 ways of going about it.

    A. Using DOFFs that lessen Cannon ability cooldowns.
    B. Using multiple CRFs. Whether you do it with only 1 possible BOFF position like 1 LtCmdr TAC BOFF position (example: TT1, CRF1, CRF2), or two TAC BOFF positions in parallel (CRF2 x2 from 2 TAC BOFF slots, a LtCmdr and Cmdr positions together).

    For most cruisers outside the Fleet Vor'Cha and Bortasqu Cruiser derivatives, you will not be able to use multiple CRF. Most cruisers can consider themselves even lucky to have a Lt TAC BOFF slot anywhere, and that would be their best one. On a ship like that, you would have to give up alot of DOFF spots if you want CRF going as much as possible. For me, I was very content to have CRF going only on critical, most opportune times when flying the standard Vor'Cha Retrofit from BGen. The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.

    Now, DBB or DHCs. Firstly, the DBB is mostly a longer ranged weapon, compared to the in-your-face nature of cannons in general that hit harder the closer you are. The DBB damage does not drop off drastically with range, especially from 5k+ like cannons will. Beams in general are great steady damage weapons regardless of range, but in close range work, cannons will rock.

    For the Vor'Cha, you are given alot of offensive options. Outside of the fleet system's K'T'Inga Retrofits, all Vor'cha variants have the highest turn rates of any cruiser in the entire game for their appropriate tiers. 11 for the former, 10 for the latter, and the fleet system K'T'Inga Retrifits are essentially inferior in most parts to even the basic Vor'Cha at BGen. The Vor'Cha can readily do beam boat if you so wish, to include DBBs. But the strengths of the basic Vor'Cha make it the best, all-around, cannon-capable Cruiser in the game, simply because it has good general strengths as a cruiser, and great maneuverability to actually make bringing DHCs/DCs to bear on targets.



    Really just curious what your reasoning is there. What are the facts on that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp

    That is a commander level ship. Not even a fleet version. Just having a grand old time in some end game PVE.
    So really I just don't get it where the Vor'cha is really better than any of the other ships outside the Bortas. All of the other KDF cruisers are very similar.

    The Bortas is the best in terms of firepower of course until you reach the Fleet version of the Vor'cha. At that point sure the Vor'cha will be huge in terms of its manueverability and Boff stations.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.

    Yes it will, they removed the Ensign Tac to make it an ensign Sci, but left the Lieutenant Tac, so you can have one CRF1 at your disposal.

    For STFs I ran Tac Team I and CRF I, and for Fleet Alerts I used Torp Spread I and CSV I on the Mirror Vor'cha.

    True, stacking DOffs is a bit of a pain if you have your DOffs setup already, but coming off of a Kar'fi myself there was little trouble swapping the hangar cooldown DOffs out for them. Well, beyond the EC costs to get them off the exchange, anyways.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thissler wrote: »
    Really just curious what your reasoning is there. What are the facts on that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSuV0B8dbw&feature=plcp

    That is a commander level ship. Not even a fleet version. Just having a grand old time in some end game PVE.
    So really I just don't get it where the Vor'cha is really better than any of the other ships outside the Bortas. All of the other KDF cruisers are very similar.

    The Bortas is the best in terms of firepower of course until you reach the Fleet version of the Vor'cha. At that point sure the Vor'cha will be huge in terms of its manueverability and Boff stations.

    The K'T'Inga has always handled beautifully. There is no question on that, and the 11 turn rate for the starbase version will persist in that quality.

    But when you look at the stats between the basic BGen Vor'Cha and even the Fleet K'T'Inga, my opinion goes along these lines:

    Identical Qualities:
    BOFF Slots
    Weapon Slots
    Device Slots

    Pro K'T'Inga
    * 11 turn rate vs 10 of the Vor'Cha. By far the strongest benefit (and only real benefit) of the K'T'Inga.
    * +1 SCI console slot

    Pro Vor'Cha
    * Stronger Shield Strength (Shield Mod 1 vs .94)
    * Stronger Hull (36k vs 34,650)
    * Larger Crew (1.5k vs 800)

    The wiki isn't quite accurate so you're going to have to verify with in-game shipyard info.

    I can understand if one feels benefits of the Fleet K'T'Inga are neutral compared to the BGen Vor'Cha Retrofit (standard T5 version). For me, that weaker hull and shield strength is a concern. It may not be much, but it is enough for me.

    Why? For a supposedly superior ship available via the Fleet Starbase System, even the Fleet K'T'Inga is not a superior choice over a ship you can take for free upon promotion to BGen.

    Is the Fleet K'T'Inga worth 200k Fleet Credits? It is a Tier 1 shipyard warship. None of them are worth that. Considering how much resources one gives up for even 200k Fleet Credits, not worth it.

    Is the Fleet K'T'Inga worth 20k Fleet Credits and 4 FSMs? No way. Just no possible way are these miniscule benefits worth that much money.

    Either route of purchase of the Fleet K'T'Inga (which is clearly superior to its very mediocre Retrofit version), the value is not worth it considering how much it costs. And consider also that this ship, like all starbase system ships, are expensive single character purchases and not account wide.

    For the standard T5 Vor'cha:

    Is it worth 120k Dil? That is up to you. Any 120k Dil purchase is something not to be taken lightly.

    Is it worth spending your BGen Free Ship Token on? Damn straight yes if you like high turning, rugged cruisers that sling around DC/DHC weapons easily.

    For me, the basic, very possibly *free* Vor'Cha Retrofit, gives the player a sturdy Cruiser foundation. Add onto that that it is the 2nd highest turning Cruiser behind the K'T'Inga, and sturdier to a "superior" Fleet K'T'Inga, one cannot go wrong with picking the Vor'Cha Retrofit. If you want a great turning cruiser that is tough and can bring narrow arc weapons to bear with ease than most other cruisers in the game, and not have to bleed so much resources to get, then you simply cannot go wrong with the BGen Vor'Cha Retrofit. It gives most things that one could want from the Fleet K'T'Inga quite possibly free upon reaching BGen.

    I'm not saying that you cannot have fun with the K'T'Inga Cruisers or kill people in PVP with it. But when you look at the stats and how much Fleet Credits and actual money are involved, and what you get for those costs, the comparison goes heavily in favor of the Vor'Cha.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    "essentially inferior in most parts" Still waiting for the facts on that. Oh nevermind. We'll be waiting a long time. Because you don't have any.

    Lets just toss any considerations of price out the window. That wasn't the question. You said the ship is essentially inferior. Not pricey.

    Let's also toss aside the size of the crew. If you're REALLY considering that get a cruiser. Honestly don't be dense.

    When you actually ever get IN a fleet Kt you see that compared to an identical Vorcha that it has 96% of the hull strength. Really? Are you really going to put on your game face and say....It may not be much, but it is enough for me? That's some funny ****. You would NEVER notice that in game play. And you KNOW you never would. Don't pretend otherwise. I bet you're great at poker.

    Also as you are in those ships you would notice that the Kt has about 115% of the shields of the Vorcha. Seems significant to me. But not really game changing. Will I notice that my Kt has more shields than a Vorcha? In most circumstances probably not but sure they are there.

    Turn rates and movement are overall so close that you couldn't tell the difference. No you couldn't and don't act like you can. The ships already are so skittish when under evasive and aux to ID that they zip around like rats on crack.

    The Kt gets an extra console. If you don't know what that is for well that's something you need to work out.

    If you have a problem with resources that also is something you need to work out.

    If you have a problem with cryptic selling ships again guess what? You need to work that out.

    So if you want some actually facts that you may notice when in the game, the two ships are almost the same. The Kt has slightly less hull and markedly more shields than the Vorcha. The Kt has one more science console.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    So I got into a Mirror Universe Vor'cha last night out of boredom (why not, it's cheap and would've taken less time than levelling an alt to 50 or spending 120k dil on a ship I might not like).

    Jesus God do Feds get the shaft when it comes to cruisers! This thing handles like some of the swifter Sci ships, pop EM and Aux2ID on there and you're approaching escort maneuverability.

    I can't conceivably imagine why you wouldn't put DHCs on the thing, maybe DBBs if you want more burst but DHCs on this ship rip through just about everything like hot butter, and your turn is awesome anyway so whatever works. DEM3 on a ship that has no power issues (you're a cruiser, just double up on EPtW1)? Yes please.

    I've tried out some of the newer mines and I quite like chronitons (those + Tac-buffed EWP = GG) as well as plasma, you could probably really TRIBBLE someone off by Tac-buffing a tricobalt and trapping someone in said EWP plus a tractor beam. It's great fun experimenting because you're an eight-weapon ship and really, if it doesn't turn out great, you're only missing a turret so who gives a fark.

    If I had that extra Tac slot from the standard Vor'cha I'd probably get some torp spread action going and it'd be real serious mode.

    Vor'cha owns!
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  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To CRF, or not to CRF?

    To constantly make use of CRF as much as possible, there's pretty much 2 ways of going about it.

    A. Using DOFFs that lessen Cannon ability cooldowns.
    B. Using multiple CRFs. Whether you do it with only 1 possible BOFF position like 1 LtCmdr TAC BOFF position (example: TT1, CRF1, CRF2), or two TAC BOFF positions in parallel (CRF2 x2 from 2 TAC BOFF slots, a LtCmdr and Cmdr positions together).

    For most cruisers outside the Fleet Vor'Cha and Bortasqu Cruiser derivatives, you will not be able to use multiple CRF. Most cruisers can consider themselves even lucky to have a Lt TAC BOFF slot anywhere, and that would be their best one. On a ship like that, you would have to give up alot of DOFF spots if you want CRF going as much as possible. For me, I was very content to have CRF going only on critical, most opportune times when flying the standard Vor'Cha Retrofit from BGen. The Mirror Vor'Cha will not even let you put a single CRF1 anywhere.

    Like someone else said above, you're a cruiser who can afford to take high ranks of DEM, you're wasted not going with something that does brutal damage with a respectable firing rate. I haven't had much of a problem managing with just one copy of C:RF (I used to fly the Excel after all and you only get one more on there) and if I really want to go troll mode I can just do a three-Technician Aux2Bat build and have exactly the same effect as two copies on one ship
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  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    They are pretty amazing aren't they? Try just dual cannons with DEM they play very well together. You're not using CRF or CSV so stick with the duals.

    Two torp spreads in pve. Scrap the rest. For blockade event ok two tac teams and two extends. On a fast ship like the vorcha it makes that easy mode.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thissler wrote: »
    They are pretty amazing aren't they? Try just dual cannons with DEM they play very well together. You're not using CRF or CSV so stick with the duals.

    Two torp spreads in pve. Scrap the rest. For blockade event ok two tac teams and two extends. On a fast ship like the vorcha it makes that easy mode.

    Yeah, I think I'll just ditch TT (I just get it out of force of habit). I'm in a Vor'cha, nothing in PvE is going to put me under that much pressure and I can just clickety-click manually if TRIBBLE hits the fan.
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thissler wrote: »
    "essentially inferior in most parts" Still waiting for the facts on that. Oh nevermind. We'll be waiting a long time. Because you don't have any.

    Lets just toss any considerations of price out the window. That wasn't the question. You said the ship is essentially inferior. Not pricey.

    Let's also toss aside the size of the crew. If you're REALLY considering that get a cruiser. Honestly don't be dense.

    When you actually ever get IN a fleet Kt you see that compared to an identical Vorcha that it has 96% of the hull strength. Really? Are you really going to put on your game face and say....It may not be much, but it is enough for me? That's some funny ****. You would NEVER notice that in game play. And you KNOW you never would. Don't pretend otherwise. I bet you're great at poker.

    Also as you are in those ships you would notice that the Kt has about 115% of the shields of the Vorcha. Seems significant to me. But not really game changing. Will I notice that my Kt has more shields than a Vorcha? In most circumstances probably not but sure they are there.

    Turn rates and movement are overall so close that you couldn't tell the difference. No you couldn't and don't act like you can. The ships already are so skittish when under evasive and aux to ID that they zip around like rats on crack.

    The Kt gets an extra console. If you don't know what that is for well that's something you need to work out.

    If you have a problem with resources that also is something you need to work out.

    If you have a problem with cryptic selling ships again guess what? You need to work that out.

    So if you want some actually facts that you may notice when in the game, the two ships are almost the same. The Kt has slightly less hull and markedly more shields than the Vorcha. The Kt has one more science console.

    I did point out the facts. It's right there in the Shipyard for anyone to see in the KDF.

    Higher hull, higher shields in a BGen ship than a Tier 1 Fleet Ship. It is a tougher ship than the Fleet K'T'Inga. That is undeniable. It still mounts weapons just the same as the Fleet K'T'Inga. That is undeniable. The numbers are there for anyone to see.

    And you're ranting against me for considering the Crew Size comparisons between two cruisers, and tell me to look at a Cruiser if I consider crew size important? Please re-read what you typed.

    Also, the prices are inseparable. This is a game that the devs have tried anything and everything they can possibly try to do to squeeze money out of you. If one is spending hard-earned real life money in this game, then costs and what you get out of it does come to play. Even if you are strictly F2P, the costs of 200k Fleet Credits is nothing to sneeze at for many players. The cost of expending resources to attain the FSM to get the Fleet K'T'Inga on top of 20k Fleet Credits is nothing to sneeze at either. Do not try to hide from that. The Vor'Cha at BGen can do pretty much anything the Fleet K'T'Inga can do. And the latter is a premium ship that you expend quite alot for, whereas the BGen Vor'Cha can be attained for free upon reaching rank eligibility.

    Also, I don't believe the Fleet K'T'Inga has superior shielding than the Vor'Cha. Again, shipyard numbers if one looks in game say I'm correct. Vor'Cha is 1. Fleet K'T'Inga, a premium ship that is a single-character purchase, is .94 shield mod. Again, the numbers are right there in the Shipyard info, in-game.

    Also, you said:
    "Turn rates and movement are overall so close that you couldn't tell the difference. No you couldn't and don't act like you can. The ships already are so skittish when under evasive and aux to ID that they zip around like rats on crack."

    You know you're actually backing up my argument as to why the Vor'Cha is superior? I had readily acknowledged the great turn rate of the K'T'Inga, which is already superior to the Vor'Cha's wonderful turn rate. Now you're saying the difference isn't so much... so why pick the Fleet K'T'Inga, if not for it's greatest strength, the best turning cannon-capable cruiser in the game?

    And you're never going to see me check for myself by flying the Fleet K'T'Inga. Because I think my standard Vor'Cha from BGen which I attained for free upon getting the rank does the job quite well, while still being sturdier.

    With all the evidence available from in the game for anyone to see upon entry in the KDF, the numbers and values are there. The costs are there. And I am saying with a very, very straight and serious face, that though the K'T'Inga is decent ship, even the BGen Vor'Cha does the job just as well as well as being a tougher ship, and you are not being hosed by Cryptic by paying high costs for a ship that has questionable "superiority" to a BGen one.
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Like someone else said above, you're a cruiser who can afford to take high ranks of DEM, you're wasted not going with something that does brutal damage with a respectable firing rate. I haven't had much of a problem managing with just one copy of C:RF (I used to fly the Excel after all and you only get one more on there) and if I really want to go troll mode I can just do a three-Technician Aux2Bat build and have exactly the same effect as two copies on one ship

    Just laying out options bro, and thanks for showing more.
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  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Just laying out options bro, and thanks for showing more.

    I actually sort of half misread your post so I apologize! All the stuff I said still stands on its own though, I promise.
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