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Fleet Saber

marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Federation Discussion
Please give it 5 tac stations, better shield mod and higher turnrate.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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    mehenmehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I assume you mean give it 5 tactical consoles, right? :P

    But yeah, they really should have modeled it after the BoP, considering its station and console layout and turn rate are identical to the fleet patrol. If the turn rate was bumped to 20, I think it'd be somewhat balanced...maybe.
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    synthiasuicidesynthiasuicide Member Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yeah, another WTF is this ship.

    A tier higher, yet the Fleet Patrol is better in every way at Tier 1. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    mehen wrote: »
    I assume you mean give it 5 tactical consoles, right? :P

    But yeah, they really should have modeled it after the BoP, considering its station and console layout and turn rate are identical to the fleet patrol. If the turn rate was bumped to 20, I think it'd be somewhat balanced...maybe.

    LOL yeh a 5 tactical station ship would be retarted :D
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    seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    I can only assume the current hull values and shield modifier are the result of some bugged equation.

    The T1 version of the sabre has a shield modifier of 0.9. There is no way the fleet T5 version, supposed to have superior shields and hull, should only have a modifier of 0.77.

    Cryptic, check your maths. The Escort Retrofit (non fleet T5 Sabre) should not have 0.7 shield modifier (when the patrol escort is 0.9), should not have less hull than the patrol escort and should, quite simply, not be worse in every way imaginable compared to the patrol escort especially considering it requires a higher rank of fleet shipyard.

    (Numbers not incredibly accurate)

    fleet patrol escort

    34k hull
    0.99 shield modifier
    universal lt slot
    requires rank 1 shipyard


    fleet escort retrofit

    30.5k hull
    0.7 shield modifier
    no universal lt slot
    requires rank 2 shipyard


    How does this make sense to anyone? Can't be working as intended.
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    mehenmehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It, like many other things, was commented on at length on Tribble, but as we all know, Cryptic doesn't seem to actually heed anything from there. I wonder which is more worthless: the Fleet Escort, or the Fleet Aquarius? :D
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    dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2012
    I'd say the Aquarius.

    The Sabre needs a a fix considering going by competitiveness it fails against the Patrol in every way but looks (This is an onscreen TNG ship after all). While i don't think it should be tough it should be fast.

    I may be wrong here. But I was under the impression a T1 ship did not get the full benefit of gear outside it's Tier. For example a Mk 12 Shield Array would have a higher capacity on a higher tier of ship. Assuming them both to have the same modifier of course.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
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    shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    seekerkorhil wrote: »
    I can only assume the current hull values and shield modifier are the result of some bugged equation.

    The T1 version of the sabre has a shield modifier of 0.9.

    That's absolutely hilarious. God my heart goes out to the poor little Fleet Saber. For just $2 a month you can give a Saber in drydock enough shields to survive!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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    shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Buuuuut...

    Who says you can't make one squeal :D

    http://i.imgur.com/t6Esx.jpg
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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    seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    Very good but we can't actually see which person you are on that score board.

    You might be bottom.
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    saiwotsaiwot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I believe all the new retrofits are underpowered compared to their normal T5 counterparts. It seems like the Fleet versions of these ships are only marginally better than a normal T5 ships because they have 10 console slots.

    I was kind of hoping the Fleet Escort would be like a Federation equivalent of the Jem'Hadar attack ship maybe not as high of a hull strength, but maybe high maneuverability. They are about the same size and appearance. I don't care what it was like in canon because this game doesn't care much about that.

    I think the only real highlights to the fleet system are the new ships and they did not seem to put much thought into it.

    Here you can have a T5 Saber, but you are not really going to want to use it.
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    seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    I suppose its far too much to ask for these days to request an explanation as to why this disparity exists?

    It was hard enough getting a response in the old days. From what I hear the forums are never frequented by devs with answers.
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    marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Sadly I think this was not a mistake, but by some bizzare twist of logic this was done on purpose. The Fleet Aquarius and Fleet Somraw KDF side also have low hull and shield modifier. Seems like the Fleet Somraw is the KDF equivelent of the Fleet Saber since both are escorts based off of Lt Cmdr ships and both have horrible shield modifier and hull.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
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    seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    Not really it just means that the programming behind the scaling is consistantly wrong. I'd accept lower shield/hull values than a ship that was originally T5 but to have a LOWER shield modifier than its T1 version?
    That's just silly.
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    dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It just a bizzare example of Cryptic's Spreadsheet logic. A T2 fleet ship has worse stats than a T1 fleet ship.

    If anything they should at least swap the ships.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
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    keppabar42keppabar42 Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If you think the fleet sabre is bad, just take a look at the fleet Nova! :P
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    dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Fleet Nova is awesome.....
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
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    rickpaaarickpaaa Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The Fleet Comet (Recon Science Vessel) is awesom-er. :P

    http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Reconnaissance_Science_Vessel
    giphy.gif
    Member since December 2009


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    shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The thing I really don't understand is why they didn't give such an itty-bitty ship a great turn rate. 20 would be fantastic but I'd be satisfied with 18. At least then it'd have something fairly unique and attractive about it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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    misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    shimmerless wrote: »
    The thing I really don't understand is why they didn't give such an itty-bitty ship a great turn rate. 20 would be fantastic but I'd be satisfied with 18. At least then it'd have something fairly unique and attractive about it.

    That itty-bitty ship is actually bigger than a K't'inga.:)

    But yeah given it currently has not upside compared to the other fleet ship whatsoever and its impressive impulse engines I still completely agree with you.

    Anyway when I look at the ship's stats and compare them to the Fleet Patrol Escort (pretty much its counterpart) I notice both have the same console setup and of course turnrate yet the Saber has less hull and shields not to mention a slightly less flexible BO setup...well I think every Dev involved in this fleet ship business should have realized this was not a bright idea.
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    cidstormcidstorm Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This is sad, Im still going to use this and the Ktinga regularly, but all my teammates will hate me. -.-
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    seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    So finally got my Escort Retrofit, with the intention of then getting the Fleet version for only 1 module (got loads of credits).

    The game is still trying to charge me 4 ship modules for it! Tell me this is wrong.
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    quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited August 2012
    Give them a finger, they'll ask for an arm.


    The Saber-F, Nova-F and so on aren't meant to be competitive.
    They're meant to be for the "we want low Tier Ships with the BOFFs of T5 even if all the other values remain low!" crowd
    Now that you have it, you want them to outperform T5 Ships?


    Also, why the hate against the Hermes? Why do you want it to be the only Escort-F not to have 5 Tac Consoles?
    It's weird that those Ships require high tier Shipyard, true, but does that really matter in the end?
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    seekerkorhilseekerkorhil Member Posts: 472
    edited August 2012
    Who's asking for them to outperform?

    I'd settle for them being equal.
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    scbypwrscbypwr Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Maybe they were thinking that fleet ships that don't cost fleet modules should not outperform Zen store T5 ships.

    Only time you should see better from the fleet ships is if you upgrade with fleet modules.

    I don't like that line of thought since the fleet ships bought with fleet marks aren't really 'free'!

    A possible explanatin ... maybe?
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    framesplicerxframesplicerx Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
      I've poked Gecko on Twitter for a month trying to get this answered... comm silence.

      It definitely has the illusion that the Fleet ships were chosen hap-hazardly and stats were given out very inconsistently.

      I understand the idea of giving a version of a lower tier ship as an "endgame" ship, but that's what the NON-Fleet ships are there for (the 200,000 fleet credit versions.)
      The FLEET versions should be solid ships that BUILD as your Tiers get higher... not downgrades and leave us all scratching our collective heads. They don't have to out-perform the previous tier outright, but they should be at least something to think about.
      The Escort Retrofit is the black sheep of the Fleet escort family in this regard. The destroyer is a close second, but that one COULD turn out to be a great ship (although I think if it had a cloak or SOMETHING besides the UNI slots and unique skin to make it more attractive, no one would complain!)

      Just look at the Escort Fleet releases and their stats- it's confusing as all get out (the shield & hull buffs are not considered for this comparison):
      • Fleet Patrol Escort - Tier 1 - solid improvement (uni BOFF, 4th eng console slot)
      • Fleet Escort Retrofit - Tier 2 - severely lacking (no reason to pick it over Patrol save for costume kit)
      • Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit - Tier3 - moderate improvement (5th tac console slot, but still has Tact Ensign)
      • Fleet Advanced Escort - Tier 4 - moderate improvement (5th tac console slot, but still has Tact Ensign)
      • Fleet Destroyer - Tier 4 - lacking (new design, and uni slots, but stats similar to a BoP without the cloak)
      • Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier - Tier 5 - minor improvement (extra sci console slot)
    1. Options
      skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
      edited August 2012
      What's going on is just a continuation of their stated policy on ship power. No more, no less.

      Its been stated on interviews that Zen ships (Cpoint at the time) would always be more powerful than their free counterparts (the T4 ships). Now, I think its pretty safe to place lockbox ships on top of that pyramid, so Lockbox ships will always outperform Z-store ships, which will always outperform non Zen ships. Their move to buff all lockbox ships to "fleet" status was one made in order to keep lockboxes attractive and just a step above fleet ships.

      In a similar way any ship that has a Zen component as part of its cost will always be better than a ship that doesn't, in this case the fleet saber does not require zen, so it will be markedly less powerful than the Fleet Patrol Escort that requires someone, somewhere, spend 2000 Zen.

      So the levels of power (and cash outlay) remain in the same order, with the most expensive ships staying on top and the cheapest at the bottom.

      Edit: Just did some more checking, seems there's also a Fleet escort retrofit (the extra fleety version of the saber) that DOES require the 4 ship modules and is markedly worse than the Fleet Patrol.... tehy should be equal.... go figure? Who understand what Cryptic does anymore these days anyway?
    2. Options
      dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited August 2012
      just an fyi, the listed shield mod on these fleet ships is not accurate. my fleet ktinga has a 1.07 shield mod. the tool tip on the item reflects the crappy mod, but the listed hit points per shield facing shows a greater number. those sabers and novas just got more viable!

      the the saber should have been a nice simple escort with a LTC station, without all that fighter bay TRIBBLE.
      gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
    3. Options
      misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
      edited August 2012
      dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »
      just an fyi, the listed shield mod on these fleet ships is not accurate. my fleet ktinga has a 1.07 shield mod. the tool tip on the item reflects the crappy mod, but the listed hit points per shield facing shows a greater number. those sabers and novas just got more viable!

      HMM, honest question:
      What about fleet ships with an even higher modifier?
      Because if the Fleet Parol Escort for example ends up with even more shields compared to the Fleet Saber the relative value remains the same.
    4. Options
      dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited August 2012
      misterde3 wrote: »
      HMM, honest question:
      What about fleet ships with an even higher modifier?
      Because if the Fleet Parol Escort for example ends up with even more shields compared to the Fleet Saber the relative value remains the same.

      vorcha refit- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922327877/B8699BCF56A9D11F1C26C4071E3000FEFEEA7E10/

      mirror vorcha- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922329495/BA79846517F77E31549BE45487BC05E1EBA0FA1C/

      fleet ktinga- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922330854/A57E3E8944E21EF2B7F901DAAD761918D5560B56/

      fleet vorcha- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922577654/E728AB2E25405EF4C11D3934F4A07EF7164F3E09/

      conclusions-

      the mirror and refit vorcha have the exact same stats, and a shield mod of 1.0. though the F ktinga has a lower shield listing then the vorcha R on the shield tool tip, the actual shield hitpoints are higher. based on the shield tool tip i figure the F ktinga has a shield mod of .94579 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.1

      but, judging by the hit points per shield facing the F ktinga has a shield mod of 1.07 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.09999

      looks like tier 5 ships turned fleet ships are accurate, judging by my admittedly small survey sample.
      gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
    5. Options
      misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
      edited August 2012
      dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »
      vorcha refit- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922327877/B8699BCF56A9D11F1C26C4071E3000FEFEEA7E10/

      mirror vorcha- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922329495/BA79846517F77E31549BE45487BC05E1EBA0FA1C/

      fleet ktinga- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922330854/A57E3E8944E21EF2B7F901DAAD761918D5560B56/

      fleet vorcha- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578964650922577654/E728AB2E25405EF4C11D3934F4A07EF7164F3E09/

      conclusions-

      the mirror and refit vorcha have the exact same stats, and a shield mod of 1.0. though the F ktinga has a lower shield listing then the vorcha R on the shield tool tip, the actual shield hitpoints are higher. based on the shield tool tip i figure the F ktinga has a shield mod of .94579 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.1

      but, judging by the hit points per shield facing the F ktinga has a shield mod of 1.07 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.09999

      looks like tier 5 ships turned fleet ships are accurate, judging by my admittedly small survey sample.

      Cool, thanks. :)
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