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Advanced Heavy Cruiser Re-Fit Build

dashuk2381dashuk2381 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Federation Discussion
So I'm getting kind of bored with my Odyssey and wanted to try the Excelsior Re-fit. This is a proposed build I am working on right now, mostly for a tanking role. I mainly just play space STFs now. This would be a beam boat type set up.

I haven't decided on weapon type yet, I will probably go with Antiprotons, though I could swap over my Mark XII Disruptors from my Ody, they are all purple Mk XII and I believe a mix of CritD, CritChance, and Dmg. I am still working on getting my Mk XI and XII Anti-proton set up so it would be nice to already have all the Mk XII weapons available.

Bridge Officer Stations:

Sci Lt - Hazard Emitters, Polarize Hull
Eng Ensign - EPTS
Eng Lt. - EPTS, ENG Team II
Eng. Cmdr. - EPTW, Aux to Struct, ENG Team III, not sure of 4th power yet(suggestions?)
Tac Lt. Cmdr. - Beam Fire At Will, Tac Team II, Beam Overload

Fore:
4X Beam Array(or 3X Beam Array and Harp'engh Torpedo)

Aft:
4X Beam Array

Consoles:
Sci - 2X Field Generator
Eng - 2X Neutronium Armor, Point Defense Console, Borg Console
Tac - 3X Weapon Type Damage(Disruptor or Anti-Proton)

Engines - Borg
Deflector - MACO
Shields - MACO

Not sure what to take with the 4th Engineering power, since I don't find Aceton Beam to be all that effective though that seems to be the most common power in that slot I can find at the trainer or on Exchange BOs. Also thinking about swaping Eng Team II for another EPTW to keep weapon power up.
Post edited by dashuk2381 on

Comments

  • rrincyrrincy Member Posts: 1,023
    edited August 2012
    Looks good to me , excelsior can work quite nicely as a beam boat , and has a decent turn rate to boot , might want to consider running a torpedo front and back though , its nice for an extra punch , especially if you load out tricobalts
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  • areikou#8990 areikou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    For a tank build, I would suggest the CMD Eng slot be used for Aux to Structural 3. You'd have to get a boff specifically with this ability, but it's well worth it. 66% up time on the resistance (Good ones at that) and a decent hull heal every time it's used.

    Also note, Tactical Team 1 and 2 aren't very different. For tanking purposes, take TT1, and use FAW2 instead. BO isn't really going to be overly effective as it really drains your weapon power for mediocre damage, and shares a global cooldown with FAW. I would advise a Quantum torp with Torp spread 3 (Jem Hadar Boff needed I think for that).
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  • dashuk2381dashuk2381 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Thanks for the pointers so far.

    Just curious, has anyone tried running a phased Tetryon build with the Omega set? I was thinking about trying it, the only issue I have is the Omega deflector seems to be horrible compared to both the Borg and MACO deflectors and since I'd be using the MACO shields I just can't seem to bring myself to sacrifice the structural intergrity bonus from either deflector just to get the 2 piece Tetryon bonus.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited August 2012
    To build on what daiouvegeta2

    Polarise Hull is as good as it gets at Rank 1, where Hazard Emitters heals more each rank it goes up.

    Tac Team is as good as it gets at Rank 1, Beam Fire at Will will fire more shots as it's rank increases.

    Beam Overload, with nothing but single Beam Arrays, you'd be better off with an attack pattern or even another copy of Fire at will which increases single target damage too. Beam Overload isn't for people who use multiple beams on Autofire, let's just say that too.

    I'd go as far as to say avoid Engineering team too, it will get in the way of Tac Team which is far more useable and should be coupled with a Purple and Blue Conn Officer to get it's cooldown down so you can use it like a pair.

    Not a single Reverse Shield Polarity? It's a great tanking skill.

    Try this

    TT1 > BFAW2 > APD
    EPtS > X > ExS2 > Aux2SIF
    EPtS > RSP > DEM2
    EPtW
    PH1 > HE2

    X is the real hole here. You put an EPtS2 in there and change the EPtS1 to EPtW1 so you have two of each. You could put an ET2 in there or another RSP, maybe even an Aux2D for quick turns. Aux2Bat and some Technicians to speed up all your cooldowns but I think that shares a cooldown with EPtX.
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  • dashuk2381dashuk2381 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To build on what daiouvegeta2

    Polarise Hull is as good as it gets at Rank 1, where Hazard Emitters heals more each rank it goes up.

    Tac Team is as good as it gets at Rank 1, Beam Fire at Will will fire more shots as it's rank increases.

    Beam Overload, with nothing but single Beam Arrays, you'd be better off with an attack pattern or even another copy of Fire at will which increases single target damage too. Beam Overload isn't for people who use multiple beams on Autofire, let's just say that too.

    I'd go as far as to say avoid Engineering team too, it will get in the way of Tac Team which is far more useable and should be coupled with a Purple and Blue Conn Officer to get it's cooldown down so you can use it like a pair.

    Not a single Reverse Shield Polarity? It's a great tanking skill.

    Try this

    TT1 > BFAW2 > APD
    EPtS > X > ExS2 > Aux2SIF
    EPtS > RSP > DEM2
    EPtW
    PH1 > HE2

    X is the real hole here. You put an EPtS2 in there and change the EPtS1 to EPtW1 so you have two of each. You could put an ET2 in there or another RSP, maybe even an Aux2D for quick turns. Aux2Bat and some Technicians to speed up all your cooldowns but I think that shares a cooldown with EPtX.

    I'll have to try RSP, I had it on my Ody but honestly never found it that useful. My shields are capped around 15k hp per facing and between two EPTS 1s and rotate shield frequency along with the DOFF that heals shields with brace for impact, my shields are hardly ever an issue. Plus I run the dual shield/engines batteries from the Lobi store.

    I normally have two copies of ENG Team, one kind of for the "oh TRIBBLE" situation that might arise and another for healing teammates. I very rarely if ever use it on myself. STFs are much easier if everyone is alive and I noticed on PuGs that very rarely does anyone focus on hull healing so it's nice to have those to bail out those in the group who get themselves in trouble or fly off on their own.

    I switched up my Tac Officer to my Jem Hadar, so I'm rolling with Tac Team 1, Beam FAW II, and Torpedo Spread III. I went ahead and swapped over to a 3-beam array, 1 quantum fore and aft build for weapons to take advantage of the AOE from Torp Spread.

    I'll play around with my Engineering officers and swap my Science officer up in terms of Polarize Hull and Hazard Emitters.

    I've also been considering a 4 single cannon/4 turret anti-proton set-up, but more on that later. I have my other Tac officer with Tac Team I, Scatter Volley I, Cannon RF II so that could easily slide into the tac slot if I went with cannons.
  • areikou#8990 areikou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The 4 cannon, 4 turret approach is similar to Hakaishin's dreadnought. Works well for individual mobs and in pvp, not so much at getting attention of multiple enemies and holding aggro so that you can tank.
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  • dashuk2381dashuk2381 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The 4 cannon, 4 turret approach is similar to Hakaishin's dreadnought. Works well for individual mobs and in pvp, not so much at getting attention of multiple enemies and holding aggro so that you can tank.

    Yeah I tried a 4 cannon/turret anti-proton build on my Noble in STFs and it was pretty lackluster despite being great in single missions for PVE. Even with the 180 degree cannons you can't keep them on target long enough to do good sustained DPS, and the turrets are sort of laughable when they become your primary weapon.

    I'm loving the Excelsior though, tough little ship and I switched up my build a bit going with 2 Disruptor Beam Arrays up front, and two Photon Launchers, then 3 beam arrays in back with a photon launcher. All the torps are 4% crit chance and 20% crit severity so when I critical the damage is awesome and with the Jem Hadar Torp Spread 3 and BFAW II it does some pretty ridiculous burst damage with the torp spreads. With only 5 beams broadsiding the energy drain is pretty managable with just one EPTW and EPS Power Transfer(captain power) and the damage resistance debuff with the disruptors was working awesome, I was criting for over 2k damage per shot at one point with the beam arrays and the escorts also seem to enjoy the extra damage. I actually dropped the point defense turret for another armor and survivability took a big jump. I figured since I had BFAW going enough the turret was pointless. While the Noble is still my favorite ship in terms of looks, the Re-fit heavy cruiser is becoming my favorite ship to play.

    With the two torps up front and the DOFFs to reduce recharge time on the already quick recharging photons, I almost feel like that scene in Star Trek VI where Sulu is just lobbing torpedo after torpedo at the end, lol.
  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    First off, I'd bump up EPtS to have one copy at level 2 and one at level 3, and cycle them.

    Stick ET in only one slot (probably the Ensign slot), and use Aux2SIF3 for your Commander ability and cycle it as well. If you use Aux2SIF3, scrub the other Aux2SIF, the cooldown ensures there just isn't any reason to have more than one copy.

    I would strongly advocate a second copy of EPtW1. If you're desparate for things to fill the engineering slots with, Extend Shields can't hurt.

    You may want to consider a copy of TSS in your science slot over Polarize Hull, or at least have a BOff with HE and PH, and HE and TSS.

    I would personally ditch APD for APO, but that's just me - great for evading tractor beams. However, unless you're a tac the attack patterns are usually not all THAT helpful (Alpha is why most tacs dump points into the Starship Attack Patterns stat, and most non-tacs don't bother with it too much). In STFs, APB2 may also be quite good as well. You can cycle that single copy of TT1 if you have the proper BOffs for it (they are EXPENSIVE).

    Finally I would stick with 6 beam arrays, 7 absolute max. Put a torp or DBB up front. I'd also put a torp in back, but 7 is workable. From what I understand, only engineers can handle having 8 firing at once without eating into their own DPS, and even when they do that that requires things like using the EPS transfer skill, which gives you an abysmal uptime for your real total weapon power (some disagree with me, but I think it's something like 33%, max).
  • dashuk2381dashuk2381 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    red01999 wrote: »
    First off, I'd bump up EPtS to have one copy at level 2 and one at level 3, and cycle them.

    Stick ET in only one slot (probably the Ensign slot), and use Aux2SIF3 for your Commander ability and cycle it as well. If you use Aux2SIF3, scrub the other Aux2SIF, the cooldown ensures there just isn't any reason to have more than one copy.

    I would strongly advocate a second copy of EPtW1. If you're desparate for things to fill the engineering slots with, Extend Shields can't hurt.

    You may want to consider a copy of TSS in your science slot over Polarize Hull, or at least have a BOff with HE and PH, and HE and TSS.

    I would personally ditch APD for APO, but that's just me - great for evading tractor beams. However, unless you're a tac the attack patterns are usually not all THAT helpful (Alpha is why most tacs dump points into the Starship Attack Patterns stat, and most non-tacs don't bother with it too much). In STFs, APB2 may also be quite good as well. You can cycle that single copy of TT1 if you have the proper BOffs for it (they are EXPENSIVE).

    Finally I would stick with 6 beam arrays, 7 absolute max. Put a torp or DBB up front. I'd also put a torp in back, but 7 is workable. From what I understand, only engineers can handle having 8 firing at once without eating into their own DPS, and even when they do that that requires things like using the EPS transfer skill, which gives you an abysmal uptime for your real total weapon power (some disagree with me, but I think it's something like 33%, max).

    I've switched the build up a bit so I'll have to re-post it. Short version is I am cycling two sets of EPTS and also have two sets of EPTW. Along with the EPS captain power and the dual batteries from the Lobi store(those lock boxes are at least good for something lol) my weapon and shield power is pretty much at max 99% of the time. I added in a RSP III on my Engineering cmdr station for when I get bombarded.

    I've also gone to a 5-beam, 3 torp launcher loadout(2 fore, 1 aft), with my Jem Hadar BO as my Tac. He has Tac Team I, BFAW II, and Torp Spread III. With the quick recharge of photons and the torpedo recharge DOFF, I can just lob torpedoes at will on targets with no shields for good burst DPS and TSIII is just awesome especially when my torps crit. Works well with the disruptors de-buff and between FAW II and Torp Spread, everything on the map is angry at me and trying to blast me which leaves my escort friends free to fly around and do what they do best, blow stuff up! :D
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If you need a tank you want something like the following:

    Forward
    Mk XII Quantum torp launcher [Borg]
    Mk XII Tetryon beam array [Borg]
    Nk XI Polarised Tetryon Beam array
    Mk XI Phased Tetryon Beam array

    Aft
    Mk XII Quantum torp launcher [Borg]
    Mk XII Tetryon beam array [Borg]
    Nk XI Polarised Tetryon Beam array
    Mk XI Phased Tetryon Beam array

    Deflector: Aegis
    Engines: Aegis
    Shields: Aegis

    Consoles

    Engineering
    Borg Console
    Mk XI Neutronium alloy (Blue quality)
    Mk XI Ablative Hull armour (Blue quality)
    Transwarp computer

    Science
    2x MK XI Field Generator (Blue quality)

    Tactical
    3x MK XI Tetryon pulse generator (Blue quality)

    Power levels (Post bonouses)
    Wep: 100
    Def: 96
    Eng: 50
    Aux: 50

    BOFF abilities:
    Lt CMDR Tac: tac team, HY torp II and BFW III
    CMDR Engi: EPtW I, Reverse shield polarity I, EPtS3, Eject warp plasma 3
    Lt Engi: Engi team I, Aux to structural I
    Ensign Engi: EPtA I
    Lt Science: Sci team I, Jam targeting sensors II

    I'm an Engineer and I run this on my Excelsior retrofit (Got a tac to train the FAW 3) and when I'm on the ball I can solo Cure Space Elite negh'vars (I just about scrape them since season 6 but it's still capable of it) it maxes out at 1700 damage per hit (Emphasis on HIT) but overall it seems to be the best of three builds I've run. also one last word of advice The ship can't sensibly defend itself and power 8 beams (you lose out on a lot of damage potential or shields if you up the weapon power) if you are after an 8 beam ship then this is not the ship for you, you want an oddy for 8 beams
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  • defcon1776defcon1776 Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    My Excelsior-R build for what its worth :rolleyes:

    Forward
    Mk XII Quantum torp launcher [Borg]
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]

    Aft
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]
    Mk XII AP beam array [Borg]

    Deflector: Borg
    Engines: Borg
    Shields: MACO MK XII


    Engineering
    Borg Console
    1x Mk XI Neutronium alloy (Purple)
    2x Mk XI Monotanium (Purple)
    [Can swap out another Neutronium or energy specific for a Monotanium]

    Science
    2x MK XI Field Generator (Blue quality)

    Tactical
    3x MK XI AP Mag (2 Purple, 1 Blue)

    Devices: Sub-space Modulator, Jevonite, various LG batteries as needed.

    Base Power (pre-buff)
    Wep: 125
    Def: 63
    Eng: 64
    Aux: 56

    BOFF abilities:
    Lt CMDR Tac: TT1, TS2, FAW3
    CMDR Engi: EPtS I, RPS I, EPtS3, APtS3
    Lt Engi: EPtW, ES1
    Ensign Engi: EPtW I
    Lt Science: PHI, TSS2
    [/QUOTE]

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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    for pvp i use this with a tac captain. engineers are better off using an assault cruiser over an excelsior

    tetryon or polaron weapons

    TT1, BO2, BO3 for 8 beam arrays
    TT1, CRF1, CRF2 for single canons/turrets

    EPtS1, EPtS2, ET3, DEM3
    EPtW1, RSP
    EPtW1


    TB1, HE1

    2 TT con doffs, 3 shield distro doffs

    omega deflector and engine, maco shield

    EPS, borg, nutronium x2 with beam arrays
    RCS, borg, nutronium x2 with single cannons

    flow cap x2

    weapons energy x3
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I feel like beams in an Excel is a waste, but that's just me. Generally if you want a team ship you're better off going with something that can double up on Lt. Com. Eng. stuff. You can always take CSV and do more AoE than you would with beams (a 180 degree arc really isn't that hard to manage).

    The Excel also isn't as well-suited to Engies unless you play to Engie strengths (DEM3 gets mad buffed by EPS Power Transfer).

    RSP on almost any cruiser is excessive, in PvE it's completely unnecessary.
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  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dashuk2381 wrote: »
    Thanks for the pointers so far.

    Just curious, has anyone tried running a phased Tetryon build with the Omega set? I was thinking about trying it, the only issue I have is the Omega deflector seems to be horrible compared to both the Borg and MACO deflectors and since I'd be using the MACO shields I just can't seem to bring myself to sacrifice the structural intergrity bonus from either deflector just to get the 2 piece Tetryon bonus.

    I've posted a build here just a day or two ago:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5221751&postcount=152

    Go with Omega engines, keep the Borg/MACO deflector (ideally Borg since you can grab another set bonus with the console going). Omega shields synergize well with the Excel.
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