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Does Beam Overload have its own modifier or is it weapon dependant?

naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
edited August 2012 in PvP Gameplay
Does Beam Overload have its own modifier or is it weapon dependant?
Post edited by naz4 on
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I though BO just was a damage boost and the ACC/CRITH/CRITS aspects of the attack where dependent on the weapon used?
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  • beezle23beezle23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It's "weapon dependent" in that it only works with Beam Arrays and Dual Beam Banks.

    As far as modifiers -- your skills that affect the weapon will work in conjunction with it:

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  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I don't think that acc mod (weapon's mod) affects it (but I think it should). My Bo misses semetimes even in pve with acc x3 modifier. Same as faw. I think Mancom was one of the first (if not first) that posted that a while ago...

    Edit: cannon acc mod seems fine though, but I really have no clue on how to test this, parsing logs is a pain in the butt if you don't know your opponents defense at that time.
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Seems silly that weapon mods would not effect BO. Silly but not shocking.:P
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  • mavairomavairo Member Posts: 579
    edited August 2012
    I miss an awful lot more without my Acc2 CrtH DBBs fired on Overload than when I have em on.

    Acc3 does not seem to work properly but the acc2 seems fine for overloads. at least 1 and 2.

    Overload also does drain a hefty amount of accuracy off your weapons.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    mavairo wrote: »
    I miss an awful lot more without my Acc2 CrtH DBBs fired on Overload than when I have em on.

    Acc3 does not seem to work properly but the acc2 seems fine for overloads. at least 1 and 2.

    Overload also does drain a hefty amount of accuracy off your weapons.

    im just trying out an acc2/crtD dbb myself over an acc3, to see how it goes. acc2 beam arrays with BO don't seem any more accurate then an acc3 DBB in my experience though. if you use BO, your best bet is to have a snare like tractor beam to use it before you fire it off, you almost never miss then. neck deep in plasma poo works great too.

    it also doesn't hurt to have a ton of weapons batteries and an eps console to help with that instant drain. for those of us that run weapons energy higher then 125, BO seems to not take that into account, and just drains as if we had 125 energy, unfortunately. thats really annoying because any shots right after have TRIBBLE damage no mater what.
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I'll have to try out some beams that have no acc modifier. It will be hard to test w/o knowing the targets defense though. But I have a hunch that acc mod is not considered when using beam abilities such as bo and faw. Or those abilities don't count all acc, meaning that only a part from weapon acc is used for faw or bo. But definitely the whole acc is not applied towards bo and faw in case of acc3. When I fly the bortasqu, I hit escorts in evasives almost 100% using regular beam fire (with acc3), as soon as I use faw and bo the misses increase. Would be nice to know if that's an intended behavior or a bug.
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  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    naz4 wrote: »
    Does Beam Overload have its own modifier or is it weapon dependant?

    And yea, lol, in case you didn't know you (re)opened a can of worms.
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  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Overload 3 seems to miss a lot more than 1 or 2.


    And maybe it's just me, but I hardly ever notice 1 missing whereas 2 does miss sometimes. 3 hits once a month, though.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I started this thread because i moved from accx3 to crthx3 and see no difference. I miss 1 in 10 shots with both but crth gives higher damage.
  • mavairomavairo Member Posts: 579
    edited August 2012
    Gawd, am I going to have to do yet another test of this?
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    mavairo wrote: »
    Gawd, am I going to have to do yet another test of this?

    If it gives you something productive to do.... :)
  • mavairomavairo Member Posts: 579
    edited August 2012
    naz4 wrote: »
    If it gives you something productive to do.... :)

    I just want to make fun pvp vids.

    I feel like I'm the Opvp Community QA guy now or something.

    I tested, the BO and ACC thing, before season 6, and Acc was most definitely working. (at least AccX2 CrtH was). Tested it fairly recently too. I might include it in my next set of field tests, which I'm not doing till we know more about the next mine patch coming.
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I got a full array of beams with various modifiers ranging from accx3 to crthx3 if you need the help.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Here's just a little bit of chiming in just because. I use beam overload 3. I admit it. I FEEL like it misses more than it should.

    But I know I'm wrong because I've gone over hours and hours of video that says otherwise.

    But who knows, maybe something changed in season 6 because I have that feeling again of it missing more than I expect it to. Maybe I was wrong all along.

    And here's the warning about things like Beam Overload. Unless you are actually recording and measuring the event in some way that you can go back later and objectively assess the event, you won't be getting an answer. At all. None. Honest.

    Because due to the nature of life and things like life, Events carry weight. Beam Overload is an event that we count on to work. Its highly visible. When it misses you KNOW it missed. If you miss 3 out of ten Beam Overloads you KNOW they all missed and your ANNOYED. When you miss 3 out of ten cannon shots you don't even know it happened.

    So yah Mav. Get a pen and paper, fire up Fraps, and do about a thousand iterations and we'll have some good numbers.

    Have ralph bring popcorn.

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  • marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If craptic did everything correctly, your weapon accuracy should stay the same no matter what you use (Rapid fire, CSV, Beam overload, FaW)

    The only reason why these values would suddenly change is

    Cryptic doesnt take the time or doesnt know HOW to fix the ability without being Over/Under powered or get a good balance. Like what happened to FaW.

    PErsonally I do not believe the "Beam overload 3 misses more then beam overload 2 and 1" speculations. I think its better to properly test it against a target with a fixed bonus defense for with like 100 Beam overload shots of both ranks with an acc x3 weap and with a common weapon.

    Make sure not to use any weapons like phasers or polaron which can affect the targets bonus defense.
    If you finished these tests you will have some accurate results and we can ditch all the speculation.

    Im honestly not bothered with doing these tests myself as Ive ditched beam overload a long time ago, Otherwise i definately would. Yeh I'm selfish i know.
  • mavairomavairo Member Posts: 579
    edited August 2012
    naz4 wrote: »
    I got a full array of beams with various modifiers ranging from accx3 to crthx3 if you need the help.

    I will take you up on that :)
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It's just pure instinct and not any sort of empirical knowledge speaking here, but after thinking about it I'm sure Thissler is right. We don't really watch the misses for the hundreds of thousands of cannon/beam shots, but since BO is only something that goes off a few times a minute at best, the misses stick in our brains like a bad acid trip. It's kind of the same way cold reading or psychic charlatans work.
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  • radkipradkip Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    it also doesn't hurt to have a ton of weapons batteries and an eps console to help with that instant drain. for those of us that run weapons energy higher then 125, BO seems to not take that into account, and just drains as if we had 125 energy, unfortunately. thats really annoying because any shots right after have TRIBBLE damage no mater what.
    What's the point in running over 125 energy in any subsystem? As far as I knew, anything over 125 wasn't counted, or did they change that at some point?

    Then again, I'm not a space guru. Are you using it to pad out the energy drain from firing multiple weapons at once? That's the only reason I could see it being useful and it seems horribly inefficient in keeping your defenses and healing up to snuff.
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  • thepleasuredomethepleasuredome Member Posts: 308
    edited August 2012
    doesn't ACT have a specific power hit/miss % datapoint that is displays, and a general accuracy datapoint as well?
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  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    radkip wrote: »
    What's the point in running over 125 energy in any subsystem? As far as I knew, anything over 125 wasn't counted, or did they change that at some point?

    Then again, I'm not a space guru. Are you using it to pad out the energy drain from firing multiple weapons at once? That's the only reason I could see it being useful and it seems horribly inefficient in keeping your defenses and healing up to snuff.

    Dontdrunk can answer this better than me, but few seasons ago (season 3 or 4???) cruiser weapon power stopped (visually) at 125 but there was a hidden additional 10 in weapons power. Like if you would set the power to weapons at 140, you see on your HUD 125, but in fact you would have 135 real. Damage I think was same as at 125, but the whole purpose was to give you a bigger/better energy "bucket", and the drains from using the beams to be less. In other words, for example, you would have 125 power, 8 beams on faw, you could experience draws to power level to 60-50. With 135, drain would've been 70-60. Apparently this +10 extra "bucket" comes and goes from patch to patch...

    Edit: this only applied to cruisers, not escorts or sci, as far as I know.
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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    radkip wrote: »
    What's the point in running over 125 energy in any subsystem? As far as I knew, anything over 125 wasn't counted, or did they change that at some point?

    Then again, I'm not a space guru. Are you using it to pad out the energy drain from firing multiple weapons at once? That's the only reason I could see it being useful and it seems horribly inefficient in keeping your defenses and healing up to snuff.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Asu87Jb5VCBgdHFKbmdpZjlEMHk3YUhfNGRTbllNY0E&output=html

    some one more dedicated then i crunched the numbers for this and came up with this result. he used an escort to test so it only had 7 beams, for a cruiser that uses 8 beams you would proboly want to shoot for ~150 energy for maximum benefit before its helpfulness diminishes and the opportunity cost for supporting that much energy out weighs the benefit.

    you weren't always able to overcap power, theres been a hard cap at 125, 135, and no hard cap all several times. its a golden age right now, a time were there is no limit to the useful amount of energy you can have in weapons.

    this doesn't make your best shot hit any harder, 125 is the maximum damage multiplier. but a pool of energy over 125 causes several of your weapons to fire without draining you below 125, so several shots fire for maximum damage, and the ones that don't wont fire at an energy level and damage modifier lower then 80 or so. set at just 125, only a single shot will do maximum damage, and you will have your worst shots deal damage at a crappy 60 power or so.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I got some data.

    Firing on a cruiser with a bonus defense of 60.

    Using dual beam banks of common variety. 15% bonus accuracy from skills.

    Beam Overload 3 and normal beam fire both had 24% miss rate.

    Call me lazy. Those were so close I didn't bother testing 1 and 2. I just moved on to the [acc]x3 test.

    There was a difference there.

    Normal beam fire missed 9%

    Beam Overload 1 and 2 missed only 4%

    Beam Overload 3 missed 20%

    Enough of a difference to think it needs to have a look at.

    So. Funny thing. I am surprised at the 4% results. I haven't parsed any data in a long while. If I could have BO3 hitting like that wow that would be great. I thought 20% was normal. Go figure.
  • marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    125 confirmed here as well a time ago.

    http://www.zeta-aquilae.net/Test/Beams.png
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    funny enough, there used to be no cap on going over the 125 visible cap...

    then they added a hidden cap at 135, specifically to address this issue...

    a season or two later, this patch went away again :p

    you know, the old story of ALL bug fixes. None lasts more than a few months at most.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    125 confirmed here as well a time ago.

    http://www.zeta-aquilae.net/Test/Beams.png

    I'm surprised how big the difference is as well.
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  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    125 confirmed here as well a time ago.

    http://www.zeta-aquilae.net/Test/Beams.png

    That's actually pretty interesting...Do I understand it correctly, that if theoretically I would put Emergency Power to Weapons III on a ship that is already at 125 weapon power, I could shoot 5 beams at full effect ?
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  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    That's actually pretty interesting...Do I understand it correctly, that if theoretically I would put Emergency Power to Weapons III on a ship that is already at 125 weapon power, I could shoot 5 beams at full effect ?

    I know for sure that instead of having x drain at 125 while firing N number of beams, at 145 power, firing same N number your drain is x-20. At least let's say it's about x-20. So yea, charts look to be right for me.

    I have to try this with an escort, 145 in an escort (not beamscort) should be lulz. Even though they don't suffer such big drains...
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  • marctraiderzmarctraiderz Member Posts: 539 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    But, back on topic about the whole Beam overload Accuracy modifier, As far as my logs show, the hitrate on my Polaron Beam array mk xi [acc]x3 was about 90% as espected from this mod, its no different then my dual cannons acc x3 which is also about 90%.

    Beam overload 3 also shows around 90% hitrate after alot of logchnking.

    So it seems to be all wild speculation and placebo effect that Beam overload 1 and 2 would be more accurate then 3.

    Unless someone else can provide clear evidence that this is not the case.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thissler wrote: »
    I got some data.

    Firing on a cruiser with a bonus defense of 60.

    Using dual beam banks of common variety. 15% bonus accuracy from skills.

    Beam Overload 3 and normal beam fire both had 24% miss rate.

    Call me lazy. Those were so close I didn't bother testing 1 and 2. I just moved on to the [acc]x3 test.

    There was a difference there.

    Normal beam fire missed 9%

    Beam Overload 1 and 2 missed only 4%

    Beam Overload 3 missed 20%

    Enough of a difference to think it needs to have a look at.

    So. Funny thing. I am surprised at the 4% results. I haven't parsed any data in a long while. If I could have BO3 hitting like that wow that would be great. I thought 20% was normal. Go figure.


    Some numbers. And some words.

    EDIT: So the hit rate for normal fire was about 90%. What theory says that actual number should be I don't know. But you would suspect that whatever testing showed it to be, it should remain consistent when abilities are used, or that abilities were consistent in their effects on that number. Neither of those things happen.
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