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pvp weekly update- 7/31/2012

matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
edited August 2012 in PvP Gameplay
hey there doodz and doodettes!

since last week... uhh...

we got.... uhh....

er....

uuhh.......

interaction about some bugs! thats right!

ooo and i think plasmonic leach got fixed/broken/nerfed

ummm anything else?
somthing else!-
Hey now - bugs are important!

Ok, here's a quick list. Over the past week, we've managed to:

1) Track down and fix a stacking error in our code that is (and has been) causing powers to not behave the way in which they are designed. The most notable among these is Plasmonic Leech, but other powers may have been affected as well. This fix should appear on Tribble on Holodeck very soon.

The result of this fix will be that Plasmonic Leech behaves as intended: Stack Limit of 8 on any target receiving the debuff, and a Stack Limit of 8 on any player using the console. If 3 players use it on a single target, he gets 8 debuffs and each player gets 8 buffs.

2) Reliably reproduce a series of UI calls that were causing KDF-Red UIs to be erroneously replaced with FED-Blue UIs. This fix will also be going live soon.

This was unrelated to various "Weapons cannot fire" threads going around.

3) Unreliably repro the "Weapons Stop Functioning" bug. But even unreliable repro is better than none. We have a theory we are exploring at this time, and hope to have a working fix by the end of this week.

4) Finalize the Mine Revamp which should be arriving on Tribble in the next day or two. While this isn't directly a PvP-related change, many of you may be relieved to hear that part of the changes include reducing the number of mines that are launched. It's not a huge drop, but it will reduce "mine spam" by a small amount.

That's just the list off the top of my noggin. May've been more. Watch for a Tribble update soon to see if anything else is coming your way.

too bad the latest changes on tribble completely made all this stuff utterly pointless.

whos bright idea was it to make chrono mines 100% proc? and transphasic mines cause such massive healing reduction?


cya next week!
Post edited by matteo716maikai on

Comments

  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited July 2012
    thats great news.

    just.......

    great.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited July 2012
    Hey now - bugs are important!

    Ok, here's a quick list. Over the past week, we've managed to:

    1) Track down and fix a stacking error in our code that is (and has been) causing powers to not behave the way in which they are designed. The most notable among these is Plasmonic Leech, but other powers may have been affected as well. This fix should appear on Tribble on Holodeck very soon.

    The result of this fix will be that Plasmonic Leech behaves as intended: Stack Limit of 8 on any target receiving the debuff, and a Stack Limit of 8 on any player using the console. If 3 players use it on a single target, he gets 8 debuffs and each player gets 8 buffs.

    2) Reliably reproduce a series of UI calls that were causing KDF-Red UIs to be erroneously replaced with FED-Blue UIs. This fix will also be going live soon.

    This was unrelated to various "Weapons cannot fire" threads going around.

    3) Unreliably repro the "Weapons Stop Functioning" bug. But even unreliable repro is better than none. We have a theory we are exploring at this time, and hope to have a working fix by the end of this week.

    4) Finalize the Mine Revamp which should be arriving on Tribble in the next day or two. While this isn't directly a PvP-related change, many of you may be relieved to hear that part of the changes include reducing the number of mines that are launched. It's not a huge drop, but it will reduce "mine spam" by a small amount.

    That's just the list off the top of my noggin. May've been more. Watch for a Tribble update soon to see if anything else is coming your way.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Glad to hear that PL is back in business. Thanks Bort!
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    In regards to mines, might we see them become STATIONARY in space, rather than "heat-seeking" mines, as they are currently? Perhaps have the heat-seeking feature be a part of some advanced type of mine ability?
    HvGQ9pH.png
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    For pvp update relations as Cryptic or PWE decided to staff up GM's to deal with the ungodly amount of exploiters/cheaters that will arise when a pvp revamp/redesign actually goes forward?

    I like pvp but its just forseen that with a statement that was made by someone that there is just not enough people at Cryptic or PWE to handle STO in the magnitude of where its being taken.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Hey now - bugs are important!

    Ok, here's a quick list. Over the past week, we've managed to:

    1) Track down and fix a stacking error in our code that is (and has been) causing powers to not behave the way in which they are designed. The most notable among these is Plasmonic Leech, but other powers may have been affected as well. This fix should appear on Tribble on Holodeck very soon.

    The result of this fix will be that Plasmonic Leech behaves as intended: Stack Limit of 8 on any target receiving the debuff, and a Stack Limit of 8 on any player using the console. If 3 players use it on a single target, he gets 8 debuffs and each player gets 8 buffs.

    2) Reliably reproduce a series of UI calls that were causing KDF-Red UIs to be erroneously replaced with FED-Blue UIs. This fix will also be going live soon.

    This was unrelated to various "Weapons cannot fire" threads going around.

    3) Unreliably repro the "Weapons Stop Functioning" bug. But even unreliable repro is better than none. We have a theory we are exploring at this time, and hope to have a working fix by the end of this week.

    4) Finalize the Mine Revamp which should be arriving on Tribble in the next day or two. While this isn't directly a PvP-related change, many of you may be relieved to hear that part of the changes include reducing the number of mines that are launched. It's not a huge drop, but it will reduce "mine spam" by a small amount.

    That's just the list off the top of my noggin. May've been more. Watch for a Tribble update soon to see if anything else is coming your way.

    sounds great! we all really appreciate your work getting done on these things, and we appreciate you drooping by the pvp forum and engaging with us. the leach will still be as overpowering as ever. can you at least make power insulators reduce the number of stacks?

    mines basically arent spam anymore. they are invisible till you get in range. spam=pets now a days.

    good luck with the weapon disable bug, luckily its a problem in pve too so i expect theres a crunch to solve that ;)
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    So, refreshing <3

    Borticus for PVP Overlord Mk. II?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    in keeping with the live updates!

    mines on tribble are out of control.

    mainly chrono mines

    they will now have a 100% slow proc chance.

    transphasic mines will slow down shield healing....

    what the hell!


    all this hard work at making the game better, just went out the window with this mine ****.
  • mavairomavairo Member Posts: 579
    edited August 2012
    Don't worry, we have Sins of a solar empire rebellion, endless space, and soon Mechwarrior.

    Cryptic, we want to love this game, we want to love you. Plz stop kicking us in the face when we try. :(
  • ussenterpisezussenterpisez Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    So the plan was to reduce spam by removing a single mine! However...

    By buffing them so much the number of people using them will increase tenfold, resulting in MOAR SPAM!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited August 2012
    Just get rid of mines altogether, problem solved.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    chrono mines procing 100% is ludicrous. at 33% theres a huge chance 1 of the 5 mines was gonna proc you, there was NO absence of procs from them

    transphasics reducing the ability to heal shields sounds like the most broken addition yet. 90% or more of someones survivability in pvp relies on a persons ability to heal their shields and stack resists on them. if getting hit with transphasic mines reduces some ones ability to heal shields, you just removed 50% of their defense. you might as well double the amount of damage every weapon does in game, this change is THAT bad.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If I may...

    Mines are still targetable, still destructable as ever... these changes simply make them more viable.

    They're still easily taken care of with FAW or CRF, or even GW or EWP.

    AND they're still under consideration and feedback. This is not the final result.
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    trek21 wrote: »
    If I may...

    Mines are still targetable, still destructable as ever... these changes simply make them more viable.

    They're still easily taken care of with FAW or CRF, or even GW or EWP.

    AND they're still under consideration and feedback. This is not the final result.

    That last part made me giggle for a moment, I cant remember the last time feedback was given and something on tribble was changed to meet that outside of season testing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Borticus for PVP Overlord Mk. II?
    no, no noooo! Don't say it!!!!! Dam, too late... now you gone jinxed it! :(

    chrono mines procing 100% is ludicrous. at 33% theres a huge chance 1 of the 5 mines was gonna proc you, there was NO absence of procs from them

    transphasics reducing the ability to heal shields sounds like the most broken addition yet. 90% or more of someones survivability in pvp relies on a persons ability to heal their shields and stack resists on them. if getting hit with transphasic mines reduces some ones ability to heal shields, you just removed 50% of their defense. you might as well double the amount of damage every weapon does in game, this change is THAT bad.

    Before, you would typically be hit with 5 mines, each with a 33% chance of applying a 100% debuff, you would statistically receive a 166% magnitude debuff if eating a whole cluster.

    Now, the chance to proc is 100%, but the magnitude is reduced to 25%, meaning that from swallowing a full cluster you will get a 100% magnitude debuff.

    To me, this looks like a 40% reduction in effectiveness... no?


    And for shield healing debuff, I love it! Survivability is way too high in STO! This will also be extra noticable for tanky cruisers and sciships. My escorts heals are close to useless anyway, and I live and die by my elusiveness/defence.

    And better mines makes GW/tykens a better ability to pack, so it's actually a little buff to sci/cc :)
  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    no, no noooo! Don't say it!!!!! Dam, too late... now you gone jinxed it! :(




    Before, you would typically be hit with 5 mines, each with a 33% chance of applying a 100% debuff, you would statistically receive a 166% magnitude debuff if eating a whole cluster.

    Now, the chance to proc is 100%, but the magnitude is reduced to 25%, meaning that from swallowing a full cluster you will get a 100% magnitude debuff.

    To me, this looks like a 40% reduction in effectiveness... no?


    And for shield healing debuff, I love it! Survivability is way too high in STO! This will also be extra noticable for tanky cruisers and sciships. My escorts heals are close to useless anyway, and I live and die by my elusiveness/defence.

    And better mines makes GW/tykens a better ability to pack, so it's actually a little buff to sci/cc :)

    problem is the chrono mines can stack. and it doesnt say by how much. so in theory this makes them even more powerful even thought they can be "resisted"
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dassemsto wrote: »
    Before, you would typically be hit with 5 mines, each with a 33% chance of applying a 100% debuff, you would statistically receive a 166% magnitude debuff if eating a whole cluster.

    Now, the chance to proc is 100%, but the magnitude is reduced to 25%, meaning that from swallowing a full cluster you will get a 100% magnitude debuff.

    To me, this looks like a 40% reduction in effectiveness... no?

    PLENTY of times i ate ~5 mines and had no procs, but now that will never happen again. chain perma chrono proced to at least some degree is what we have to look forward too if a premade is evil enough to deploy this on mass.

    dassemsto wrote: »
    And for shield healing debuff, I love it! Survivability is way too high in STO! This will also be extra noticable for tanky cruisers and sciships. My escorts heals are close to useless anyway, and I live and die by my elusiveness/defence.

    And better mines makes GW/tykens a better ability to pack, so it's actually a little buff to sci/cc :)

    "Transphasic Mines:
    Increased shield bleedthrough from 40% to 80%.

    Transphasic mines will disrupt the enemy shields, leaving a Shield Healing debuff in place.
    For 5sec after being hit with a TP Mine, Shield healing is 50% less effective on the target.

    Shield Redistribution will also be less effective during this debuff.

    Debuff magnitude does not stack, but multiple hits will extend the duration of the debuff.
    More mines make for a longer debuff."

    k, unless they forgot to mention a proc chance, theres a 100% chance of that happening per mine with the duraction stacking. with enough trans mines, you could basically cancel out a running EPtS and TT, wile also making the standard redistribute half as effective. if you cant kill someone that befuddled in less then 10 seconds, you are fail. as it looks now 50% of your ability to 'shield' in every way is removed with a 100% chance, concurrent stacking debuff. its complete insanity. if these mines have a proc chance higher then 10%,
    (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Unfortunately, with these changes to the mines, I can only see this increasing the mine spam.

    You were pretty much guaranteed a Chron proc on someone before, even with "just" a 33% chance. Now, with a 100% chance, everyone's going to be pumping out Chrons like no other.

    And seeing how essential shield healing is to being any sort of effective, Transphasics are going to be churned out as well.

    Not to say, though, that these changes are unwelcomed/unwanted. I definitely like the idea of giving weapon procs a revamp. It's just that these are going to pump out more mine spam instead of reducing it. Perhaps if these procs were instead applied to torpedoes...? :o
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    PLENTY of times i ate ~5 mines and had no procs, but now that will never happen again. chain perma chrono proced to at least some degree is what we have to look forward too if a premade is evil enough to deploy this on mass.




    "Transphasic Mines:
    Increased shield bleedthrough from 40% to 80%.

    Transphasic mines will disrupt the enemy shields, leaving a Shield Healing debuff in place.
    For 5sec after being hit with a TP Mine, Shield healing is 50% less effective on the target.

    Shield Redistribution will also be less effective during this debuff.

    Debuff magnitude does not stack, but multiple hits will extend the duration of the debuff.
    More mines make for a longer debuff."

    k, unless they forgot to mention a proc chance, theres a 100% chance of that happening per mine with the duraction stacking. with enough trans mines, you could basically cancel out a running EPtS and TT, wile also making the standard redistribute half as effective. if you cant kill someone that befuddled in less then 10 seconds, you are fail. as it looks now 50% of your ability to 'shield' in every way is removed with a 100% chance, concurrent stacking debuff. its complete insanity. if these mines have a proc chance higher then 10%,
    (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

    I did test transphasic mines a little before I went off to work. The proc is 100%, but it didn't look to me it stacks, just refreshes the 5s duration on every hit.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The shield distro debuff seems silly (if I've specced this hard into things like EPS I'd like to imagine I can move shields from one side to another) but on paper they don't really look that bad. You don't really want to be using that many shield heals when you actually need them anyway, it's a preventative measure for the resist components.

    Again, this is completely without having seen them in action at all, but I'd imagine if they're even as nasty as they're being made out to be, you can just bang BFI and keep something good at filling shields like TSS on cooldown. If the debuff doesn't affect the -25% reduction to shields from EPtS it's not even that big a deal. The chrono mines look like far more of a pain.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    I did test transphasic mines a little before I went off to work. The proc is 100%, but it didn't look to me it stacks, just refreshes the 5s duration on every hit.

    so getting hit with 4 or 5, or 10 or 20 at once wouldn't really make it worse or stack 1 after another. it would only be crippling if 1 or more mines hit every 5 seconds. still, a one two punch of hit by mines, and an alpha strike will make the alpha melt shields twice as easily, and TT will by half as able to out transfer the damage, on top of the damage hitting shields with much less resistance. with TT defeated, and running with the equivalence of set to power level 25 shields with no EPtS active, 5 seconds is an eternity. well we know why the cluster torp does not have this proc. if it did it would be, fire cluster, hit buffs, wait for mine explosion, deal 1 shot.

    overall, im still in (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ mode.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Still transphasic look at least interesting now. I can imagine using 2 launchers on sci ship. Same goes for plasma. Never linked chronitons much (I dont like cheesy stuff). Quantums well, those things now have nice blast radius, I wouldn't want to eat many of them while my shields are down tbh.

    Good thing about that 80% bleedthrough is that you can nicely pump it up with abilities to do like 1,5-2k per mine. That's not bad at all. When I'm back from work I will test dispersal pattern III with them and see how it goes.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    problem is the chrono mines can stack. and it doesnt say by how much. so in theory this makes them even more powerful even thought they can be "resisted"
    old chrono also stacked, and would in theory accumulate 66% faster than the new system

    PLENTY of times i ate ~5 mines and had no procs, but now that will never happen again. chain perma chrono proced to at least some degree is what we have to look forward too if a premade is evil enough to deploy this on mass.
    If the devs % numbers are correct, then an equal number of times you would have eaten a single mine and got a 100% proc.

    By the numbers the devs served us, flying through a minefield of chronos will leave you 40% less debuffed with the new system.

    As for the partial proc, I'm curious to see how the now working resist handles this. Does it influence duration or slow-effect? If the system is well designed, speccing into Dampers should make a low magnitude debuff a mere annoyance.

    All in all, with the resists, and the counter skills to chronos now working, I think chronos are really not that good anymore. Be it old chrono or new chrono. Don't we have 3 skills now giving immunity?

    Anyway, it's all theoretical. Everyone is going to use the new OP transphasics anyway!
    "Transphasic Mines:
    Increased shield bleedthrough from 40% to 80%.

    Transphasic mines will disrupt the enemy shields, leaving a Shield Healing debuff in place.
    For 5sec after being hit with a TP Mine, Shield healing is 50% less effective on the target.
    I think that even if they were to cut ALL shield heal capacity by 50% (not from mines, just ageneral nerf), it wouldn't necessarty be a bad thing (ofc 50% is a bit over the top, but ..) As long as the resists are left alone.

    Shield heals are so strong now, that breaking through some players shields is virtually impossible. This is seen in the ever-increasing number of ships built to kill by bleedthrough.

    I think what we're seeing, is mines becoming relevant in PvP. Not owerpowered, just powered. How does a mine compare to a aft array/turret/torp now?

    Anyway, it's all theoretical. Everyone is going to use the new OP chronitons anyway!

    Adopt, Adapt and Improve!
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    problem is the chrono mines can stack. and it doesnt say by how much. so in theory this makes them even more powerful even thought they can be "resisted"

    Better go on exchange and get some mine launchers while still cheap... Lol. No more torps, just use mines...
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • brokenmirror2012brokenmirror2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Opnion on Mines.

    Photon Mines: 8/10, Good job
    Quantum Mines, Perfectly fine
    Plasma Mines: great job on the buff
    Transphasic Mines: Yea No, -70000/10, These are OP Little ****ers, remove the shield heal resist, and add a -10 NON-stacking shield power reduction.
    Chrono mines: Just.... Increase the magnitude but make it nonstacking, non chaining. Even resistiable, not everyone chains resistances. 100% proc, flying through 100 of these things will make u stop moving. Then moar mines can come.
    Tricobalt: Havnt checked them out yet
    Tachyon: NO! NO! NO! NO! Lower the shield damage Lower the proc, lower the AOE, lower the general useage, Increase the Cooldown, and Get them OUT OF PVP. Unspeced, on Holodeck, i can take these mines, and Blow away an entire teams shields, on Tribble speced, i can delete your shields for 10 seconds."-infinite resistance" Its not op...

    Mines in general: Get rid of MES, if ur gonna keep heat seakingness. Get rid of Heat Seakingness if your gonna keep MES, Lower MES's Stealth range and lower the mines heat seakingness range. Add a skill to STO that makes mines ignore you. Mines would track your impulse trail to get heat seaking,

    add a skill to ensign/lt/ltc tactical, Use Auxillary Thrusters, for 15/20/25 seconds Mines can not see you 45 sec CD, lowers your speed by 10%, Makes it impossible to drain or disable engine power during this duration. 30 sec universal, No doffs.

    Engineering ensign/Lt/LTC, Mask Core Signiture, For 15/20/25 seconds mines can not see you, Energy Syphon Drones drain cut in half, Lowers all powerlevels by 5 for 10 seconds. 45 second CD, no doffs.

    science ensign/Lt/LTC, Mask Impulse Trail, For 15/20/25 seconds, Mines can not see you, Boosts magnitude of Mask Energy Signiture, or cloak, by 1000 stealth. -10 engine and shield power, Universal Cooldown with Photonic Displacement consol.

    But still remove the transphasic shield nuke thing!
    And Tachyon mines are still OP, either disable them in pvp, or make their resist debuff nonaffective to players.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    bort in the tribble patch thread said that chrono mines area actually going to proc at 80%, not 100%. 100% was from earlier testing and it got bumped down to 80% for the final value.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2012
    80% is the correct value. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
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