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Atrox Carrier weapon layout advice needed

djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Federation Discussion
Captains,
I'm buying the Atrox Carrier tonight, and would like some advice on the weapons build. I've been told by several people that the Atrox can load cannons. I thought that sounded cool...a way to use cannons without being so squishy. However, The turn rate is so bad that I might need to stick with beam arrays like my Oddy. What do you guys and gals think?

Edit 1...thought you might want to know I mostly play elite STFs right now, as they give me the best dilithium farming value. Thanks.
C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Post edited by djf021 on

Comments

  • sadorsador Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I load a dual beam bank, 2 cannons on front and 3 turrets on the back with Tac Team 1 and RF1 on my tactical officer. The best thing for the carrier itself to do is hang back and CC/repair the team. It's taken a bit, but I've gotten used to letting the fighters to the work. Now I need to respec out of threat generation...
  • thoroonthoroon Member Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    djf021 wrote: »
    Edit 1...thought you might want to know I mostly play elite STFs right now, as they give me the best dilithium farming value. Thanks.

    Turnrate in STFs is a non-issue:
    Cubes hardly move
    Probes/BOPs/Raptors usually follow distinct travelpaths before required to be destroyed
    Spheres are rather slow and if you stay at range, you won't have a problem (they use EPTE once in a while though).
    And as an Sci-heavy ship you are able to use various abilities which allow you to get enemy ships where you want them and stay there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kylesal24kylesal24 Member Posts: 312
    edited July 2012
    Hey, I am a tac captain who uses this carrier. I do mostly pve, so my build is setup for that. I use 2 dual heavy cannons plus a quatom torpedo in the front. Then 3 turrets in the back. I use tac team 1 and cannon rapid fire 1. 3 eng heals, and then a few sci heals and a few holds. Hope this helps. Also, there is NO perfect build for this ship. I am one of the few people who puts cannons on this ship. Everyone has their own opinion about what to use. Just about anything works. Just make sure to get blue lvl fighters, but what type of fighters to get is really taste. I go with 2 wings of Preg. fighters.
    Kyle
    Delta Fleet Command
  • hakaishinlegionhakaishinlegion Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    ...*facepalm*

    You're taking a ship that only has 2 tac slots, and giving it 3 different types of weapons?

    Seriously?

    Is there no such thing as a PvEer capable of sound build design? *sigh*

    You like single beams? Take them.

    You like single cannons/turrets? Take them.

    You like DBB? Take them.

    You like Torps? Take them.
    BUT PICK ONLY ONE AND RUN WITH IT.

    One.

    Not two.

    Not three.

    Not ten.

    One.

    Only one.

    Uno.

    Doesn't matter if you're a Tac, Engi, or Sci. One.

    Only.

    Now, with that out of the way... WHY only one you ask? "10,000 different weapons is uber!" you say?

    You have 2 tac slots. That said, if you plan on having Tac Team, that means you only have 1 Tac weapon ability. If you don't want Tac Team, that means you can only cycle 1 Tac weapon ability for continual effect.

    Example: 2x FAW for continuous mutli-single beam loadout splendor.

    You aren't an Escort. Doesn't matter if you're a Tac captain or not.

    STOP PRETENDING TO BE ONE!!!

    People ask me all the time how I got the Dreadnought to be effective as the single-most-laughed-at ship in the game at the time (even Gal-R had more utility back then).

    Answer is posted above. I didn't pretend to be something I am not. I took the strengths of the ship and amplified them until its strength was impossible to deny.

    Atrox is NO DIFFERENT.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
  • toeofdoomtoeofdoom Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Not all tactical abilities actually care if you have more than one weapon. With science ships and carriers, you can stick a beam on just for the target subsystem abilities. Torpedos and beam overload similarly require just one weapon. So 5 cannon type weapons and a beam actually makes perfect sense, if you can figure out how to keep weapon power up and any auxiliary you need for science or fighters.
  • hakaishinlegionhakaishinlegion Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    toeofdoom wrote: »
    Not all tactical abilities actually care if you have more than one weapon. With science ships and carriers, you can stick a beam on just for the target subsystem abilities. Torpedos and beam overload similarly require just one weapon. So 5 cannon type weapons and a beam actually makes perfect sense, if you can figure out how to keep weapon power up and any auxiliary you need for science or fighters.

    No, it really doesn't.

    Weapon skills traditionally have a 30 second cooldown, 15 second duration (FAW being the exception for 10 second duration).

    This is of course aside from per-hit assaults (BO or Target Subsystems, for instance).

    You would derive greater use capitalizing on these weapons. a 3/3 weapon loadout common on Sci ships for example, having 6 beams benefiting from a FAW volley and having the Target Subsystem available off cooldown. This setup for the Atrox would mean you'd have a slot available for Tactical Team as well, without being over extended (all of your weapons would benefit from that 1 weapon skill, and you still have your Target Subsystems to use every cooldown without skipping a beat. And best of all, you can use your Target Subsystem on ANY firing arc without limitation, which helps a lot on this slow boat).

    Sound build design. This would mean you think about things like the aforementioned.

    No. It doesn't make perfect sense for the Atrox to load 5 cannon based weapons and a beam, regardless of it being a Sci ship.

    If you actually want to maximize ship efficiency (which if you AREN'T trying to do, you wouldn't be here asking for build advice), you wouldn't split it up in that fashion when you are already running with limited resources.

    Pick one. Under NO circumstances for the Atrox would that rule be viably broken.

    None.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
  • intrinsicalintrinsical Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    The only point I agree with is that you should maximize and amplify the strength of the ship you're using. The Atrox (and most science vessels) are meant to be multi-role ships. They perform best by fitting themselves into whatever situation and whatever gap needs to be filled in the group. This is why my Atrox has good but not amazing dps, can tank, can heal allies, can lock down opponents. It is achieved with the Omega Set, 1 single phased tetryon DBB, 2 quantum torpedoes and 3 tetryon turrets.

    The Omega set provides Tetryon Glider. In combination with turrets and the occasional target shields subsystem and tetryon beam boff ability, it consistently strip shields from opposing ships. That is when I activate Gravitic Anchor and let a constant stream of quantum torpedoes slam into the exposed hull. Combined with 4 flights of peregrine fighters, this is about the best dps a federation science vessel can hope to achieve while still being able to tank, heal and crowd control at the same time.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    With something as fat and slow as an Atrox, as well as having a single Lt. Tac station, whatever you put in there isn't really going to make a difference so long as it has a wide arc. You can go all single cannons and turrets in the rear if you like, but you lose out on the innate Subsystem Targeting. Take what I say with a grain of salt since I'd never fly the thing personally but I'd probably just go all beams with a single utility mine in the rear (tractor mines or chronitons or something), or hell just take six beams full stop. TT and FAW2 for your powers.

    ^^^ Torps and DBBs are terrible on a ship with a turn rate like a pig in molasses. Honestly I don't know why people put DPS torps instead of at least using chronitons on these ships, you can't buff them and you're going to end up being able to use them once in a full moon. Your overall DPS would end up being higher just running an unbuffed beam array.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • toeofdoomtoeofdoom Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Hakaishi: Beam target subsystem actually has an 85 second cool down, so working in even one beam fire at will waste one of the four. Cannons do more base damage especially with the lower weapons power likely for a carrier and still get one ability every 30 seconds, also allowing you to point forwards for max damage and 90 degree science abilities. So yes, it does make perfect sense. Your fit would work fine too, but isn't the only way to do things.

    The alternative might be using all cannons and just ignoring the target subsystems, but you don't lose much damage bringing one beam in anyway. Losing that full power 90 degree arc would be a huge pain on such a ship unless you cut out half of the science abilities.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    toeofdoom wrote: »
    Hakaishi: Beam target subsystem actually has an 85 second cool down, so working in even one beam fire at will waste one of the four. Cannons do more base damage especially with the lower weapons power likely for a carrier and still get one ability every 30 seconds, also allowing you to point forwards for max damage and 90 degree science abilities. So yes, it does make perfect sense. Your fit would work fine too, but isn't the only way to do things.

    The alternative might be using all cannons and just ignoring the target subsystems, but you don't lose much damage bringing one beam in anyway. Losing that full power 90 degree arc would be a huge pain on such a ship unless you cut out half of the science abilities.

    I wouldn't really recommend relying on 90 degree Sci abilities with something on a five turn rate. It sounds like you're trying to force a square peg into a round hole; there are other, more offensive Science ships that can do what you're describing in that case.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • intrinsicalintrinsical Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I captain an Atrox every day and I can say putting energy draining weapons in all 6 weapons slots is not a good idea. Simply put, weapons isn't a science vessel's strong spot. Its 6 weapons cannot even compete with a 8 weapon slot cruiser so don't waste your ship's energy trying to squeeze every drop of dps out of thiose 6 weapons. That's trying to maximize the Atrox's weak point and it isn't going to get you very far.

    This is why I chose Tetryon Turrets with Tetryon Glider more for their shield stripping ability rather than for their dps. Likewise, the Tetryon Dual Beam Bank is not for dps but rather to apply Target Shields Subsystem and bring down the enemy's shields. Thankfully your main dps weapons are torpedos and fighters and they do not use any ship power at all. So you can dial your ship's weapon systems down to 25% without sacrificing any dps. Doing this actually allows you to direct most of your ship's power to Auxiliary and Shields, allowing your science and engineering abilities to shine.

    And don't worry about the narrow angle of your DBB and torpedoes. Short of PvP, the DBB and torpedo setup works very well. In STFs, most targets are static or their positions can be anticipated so it is easy to get the "pig" into the right position most of the time. In the season 6, crowd control is a must for most of the space fleet actions so you're using Gravity Well a lot. Guess what, Gravity Well requires your ship to be facing the right direction to begin with. And once Gravity Well is active, it locks the enemy ships directly ahead of your ship, allowing your torpedoes to deal their best damage.
  • toeofdoomtoeofdoom Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Yeah, it's not going to be easy and requires good positioning. Like was mentioned earlier there are tractor beams available too and in PVE things move reasonably predictably. Because you have 2 hangar bays you would be doing much more damage than those other science ships when you get it right.

    The point is that's the main advantage of cannons here as they have approximately equal damage (at high power levels, after abilities) to 6 beams - 90 degree abilities with 5 or 6 beam arrays just won't fit. But because the omnidirectional stuff just plain does less damage or has short range you do get something in return. Doesn't really affect you if you go for healing, though.
  • tgebhardttgebhardt Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Well my load out is:

    2x polaron beam arrays + 1x chronium torp at each end

    My tac lt gets 1 tac team and 1 torp spread 2.

    Omega deflector and engine give me the shield stripping ability and I use the Maco shield.

    Consoles:

    eng: 1x Eps flow + 2x neutronium (eps flow because I switch around power settings a lot in a fight)

    sci: Field gen, borg console, 2x shield emitter

    tac: 2x polaron consoles


    eng lt cmd epts 1 + 2, aux to sif 2

    sci lt cmdr Polarize Hull 1, he 2, transfer shield strength 3

    sci cmdr he 1, transfere shield strength 2, tractor beam repulsor 2 and Grav well 3

    I also use regulary Beam Target to engines and Beam Target to shields

    With this set up you can have effective crowd control, tank and do quite a bit of damage.

    I can deal with right probes in KASE and at the same time kill the left transformer (including the cube) while the rest of the team deals with left gate, at least with my tac.

    My Engineer is a bit slower and usually only manages to kill 2 generators and the cube.

    The main problem i usually have is to designate the 2 back generators as targets for my pets, while I remain on station to deal with the probes.
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Thanks for all the suggestions. So far I've settled on 4 tetryon beams and to torps. I'm just not good yet surviving in this slow ship with mostly forward facing weapons as I'd have to with cannons and turrets. (Because lets face it, if an enemy is behind me, turrets would just tick spheres off and increase my threat gen. Can't quite make myself give up the Quantums, although I've considered it due to all the torpedoes flying from the peregrine fighters.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • tgebhardttgebhardt Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    if you go with torp spread and have a chronium torp in the back, getting away from spheres is easy. Just run away and slow them down with a chronium spread.

    Also if you really want to get your atrox moving, set all energy to engines and hit evasive. 8 seconds at 160 impulse really put the distance between you and the enemy. Works also if you want to close the distance, just be careful, because getting the atrox to stop once you move with such speed can be difficult.

    I once tried to get to kang to hail, and overshot it by 10 km ...
  • kylesal24kylesal24 Member Posts: 312
    edited July 2012
    Sorry for being late to respond to this thread. @intrinsical, if you are just doing STFs, and you are going to be pointing in that 90 degree ark, why not use dual heavy cannons? Why does everyone hate one of the best things that this ship has? Ok, I use phaser cannons and turrets and quantum torpedoes. So i put one of each in my console slot, that way the fighters get the extra damage. Look, if you think that the console don't effect the fighters, then please explain why the fighters are doing the extra damage?

    Hope that we were all helpful here. Good luck to you in setting up your carrier and maybe see you in game.
    Kyle
    Delta Fleet Command
  • innuwarriorinnuwarrior Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Hi I use Atrox also as a sci off. My load out is 1 cannon, 1 dhc, 1 db up front. In back 2 turrets and 1 beam. Beam help me use target subsystem ability and having both front and rear one helps me use it all around. I try as much as possible to face whatever I'm shooting at. With my sci toon I never have 100% weapon power, I always put as much as possible in auxiliary to complement my sci power and sci bof, so having 5 weapons firing constantly instead of 6 on full frontal attack give a bit more punch with a bit less weapon drain, combine with pet and I get usable dps for stf.

    For bof tac power I prefer to use 2 tac team 1 and 2. Don't have to worry about balancing shield that much and concentrate on sci power and heal, crowd control and such. High dps is not what this ship is about.

    On that point, I'm still equiping the ship and I thing I'm gonna switch to tetryon based on comment in this tread and that will be my next goal. The omega engine and deflector is a good idea I will be aiming at also.

    Hope that help
    Jamal : Tactical space specialist. USS Bug Warrior and many others
    E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
    Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
    Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
  • nuclearwesslenuclearwessle Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I have to agree with the all or nothing rule here. You only have 1 free tac boff slot. So youre either going to use BfaW or CRF or CRV or a torp skill. That means if you use a cannon skill, all your beam weapons you have equipped are little more than a power drain. If you have BfaW, then your cannons/turrets arent going to benefit. All beams or all cannons are the way to go so you get the most mileage out of your tac boff skill choice.

    OR, you can run a torp build. With 2 or 3 quantums up front, 3 tet turrets in the rear with Tetryon glider, and the appropriate active DOffs, youll basically be spitting out a torpedo every second. You Need advanced stalkers or advanced delta flyers as your pets to help with shields though.

    I have 2 Atrox carrier alts, I run one with 6 beams and one with the torp build. In STFs, its hard to say which one does better. The beam build requires way more power management, I can run 100 aux with the torp build for strong Gravity Wells and Tykens
  • doomiciledoomicile Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I've been messing around with 3/3 Phased Polaron BA's, using TT1 and BFAW2.

    I have 1 Advanced Stalker and 1 Advanced Peregrine equipped.

    For Eng- ET1, RSP1 and EPtS3

    For Sci- ST1, TSS2, HE3, GW3

    TB1, SS1, ES2


    So far, it seems to be working out pretty well in STF's and Fleet Missions. Although the secondary Lt. Sci station might be better served with HE2.

    It's a pretty versatile ship. The main thing is keeping your Aux power up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hakaishinlegionhakaishinlegion Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Wife made me eggs, grilled bacon, smoked sausage, garlic bread, and had a half case of beer on ice on my new house's patio when I woke up.

    Today will be a good day.

    That is all.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
  • maelwy5maelwy5 Member Posts: 593 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Pick one. Under NO circumstances for the Atrox would that rule be viably broken.

    None.

    TT1. APB1.

    Turrets, Cannons, Beams, Torpedos... APB careth not. Also, your fighters'll do 30% more damage on your target, so it's kinda a good idea for a PVE carrier.

    For Bonus points, throw in a Aux2Bat1 on the LtCom Eng slot and a few Technicians to have APB (and whatever damage-orientated Sci Commander ability you took) up more often.

    Doesn't really matter therefore if you decided to mix and match weapon types a bit, assuming you can still bring most of your available DPS to bear on whatever you're shooting at. I would however strongly advise staying with the usual "pick one ENERGY type and stick with it" idea: you only have a few Tac Console slots, so make 'em count! ;)
    [ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
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