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Fleet Marks in PVP

dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
edited July 2012 in PvP Gameplay
As much as I would love to see them added to PvP, I do not see how it would improve PvP.

If the rewards would be for everyone, no matter if on winning or loosing sides, there will simply be more afkers/leechers = boring matches, waste of time.

If the rewards will be only for winners, no randoms will queue against premades, so in the end there will not be much of PvP happening. Even now people ask in OPVP for people to join even FvF queues :rolleyes:

Sooo, why not introduce Fleet PvP queues - tournaments of sorts, where fleets could compete against each other for some high fleet mark/special token rewards and there could also be some ranking list to see which fleet is really good :)

FvF would be tournaments, FvK would be war effort.

If there would be some special tokens for winning, maybe they could be used to improve the starbase somehow. Visually, or providing upgrades for "pvp stores" with "pvp consumables" "pvp sets" and all that gear TRIBBLE.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Post edited by dalnar83 on

Comments

  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited July 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    If the rewards will be only for winners, no randoms will queue against premades, so in the end there will not be much of PvP happening. Even now people ask in OPVP for people to join even FvF queues :rolleyes:

    How is this any different than the queues now?
  • fakehilbertfakehilbert Member Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    If the rewards would be for everyone, no matter if on winning or loosing sides, there will simply be more afkers/leechers = boring matches, waste of time.
    True. Fleet marks just for participating are probably a bad idea.
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    If the rewards will be only for winners, no randoms will queue against premades, so in the end there will not be much of PvP happening.
    I don't see how fleet marks for winning could possibly make the current situation worse.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Well I can imagine that if marks are only for winning, more people will group up. So queues will be "full" of premades, hence the average joe won't bother to queue at all, and thus increase the waiting time...
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited July 2012
    there seems to always be at least a pugmade in the queues now. doing this will decrease the wait time for them to get a pop. It would also discourage ppl farming marks and not participating which is a bigger concern imo than premades in the queues. trying to pug when 1-2 ppl are afk and fighting 3v5 is much more frustrating than losing a 5v5 badly.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Well, from my experience. There is not much difference between 2 afk/leechers and 2 people people who say "ah premade, pointless - goes afk" after they are killed off the first time.

    Hence why I think fleet marks should be in fleet vs. fleet matches. In these matches everyone will try to win and noone will be afk. Improving the quality of the match for those who care.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited July 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    Well, from my experience. There is not much difference between 2 afk/leechers and 2 people people who say "ah premade, pointless - goes afk" after they are killed off the first time.

    Hence why I think fleet marks should be in fleet vs. fleet matches. In these matches everyone will try to win and noone will be afk. Improving the quality of the match for those who care.

    and completely killing the normal queues
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Why so ?? I would expect it to be a daily for fleet marks. Like win 3 fleet matches. But ye, I know what you mean. But that's the problem. There is no ideal solution. How would you solve that ??

    But knowing Cryptic they will just give marks to everyone and increase the number of leechers :rolleyes:
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    As much as I would love to see them added to PvP, I do not see how it would improve PvP.

    If the rewards would be for everyone, no matter if on winning or loosing sides, there will simply be more afkers/leechers = boring matches, waste of time.

    If the rewards will be only for winners, no randoms will queue against premades, so in the end there will not be much of PvP happening. Even now people ask in OPVP for people to join even FvF queues :rolleyes:

    you could say the same thing about the pve mark events. they give marks for showing up and others fighting. it would just encourage more quing up, of afkers and not. just like for every other game type that has a unique reward incentive.
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    Sooo, why not introduce Fleet PvP queues - tournaments of sorts, where fleets could compete against each other for some high fleet mark/special token rewards and there could also be some ranking list to see which fleet is really good :)

    FvF would be tournaments, FvK would be war effort.

    If there would be some special tokens for winning, maybe they could be used to improve the starbase somehow. Visually, or providing upgrades for "pvp stores" with "pvp consumables" "pvp sets" and all that gear TRIBBLE.

    the ques are barely full enough for pvp games to start fairly regularly now, i don't think enough people would ever que up, and it would be dead.
  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited July 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    Why so ?? I would expect it to be a daily for fleet marks. Like win 3 fleet matches. But ye, I know what you mean. But that's the problem. There is no ideal solution. How would you solve that ??

    But knowing Cryptic they will just give marks to everyone and increase the number of leechers :rolleyes:

    Well, I think your right in that there is no ideal (perfect) solution. Just adding fleet marks to the winning team isnt even a great solution in the normal queues, because I dont believe a lot of the farmers are even fleeted.

    Changing the reward system to only reward EC, dilithium, and fleet marks to the winning team would be a step in the right direction to invigorate the queues and discourage afk'ers.

    Sure it sucks when a pug runs into a premade. Its a rough match. The penalty for leaving that match should be the same as leaving a stf. However, as much complaining as I've heard about pugging and running into a premade, I sure havent heard many ideas about pugging a STF and queueing to find yourself on a horrible team that doesnt have a chance at completing the objectives. When you pug, you run the risk of being outmatched. Maybe a change like this will encourage players to play as a team and to start looking for some ppl that want them to team with them?
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Or to not play at all, since they can farm marks elsewhere.....
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • falloutx23falloutx23 Member Posts: 456
    edited July 2012
    If they don't want to pvp because it's "hard", then they can farm elsewhere. I hate the E1 should get a prize for participating mentality.
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Change kerrat back from a daily, that will get rid of a lot of unwanted afkers in the queues.

    Add marks as a reward for PVP (arenas and C&H,) but give double rewards to the victor. I've heard people complain they didn't get marks in the starbase missions, but they didn't do ****, so one must ask... Not a for foreign concept, unless it was a bug.


    While not an ideal solution, perhaps it's a good middle ground since PVP isn't the easiest of game play. However, by providing a reward win or lose, while giving double marks for victory, that could increase the attention new players/old players, that are new to PVP, take in the game. End result, more skilled players, more active queues?

    Just an idea.
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited July 2012
    Since fleet marks are supposed to be for fleet activities, how about something like this:

    Losing side: 2 fleet mark for for every kill the team scores. Max would be of course the number of kills setup for the match. Plus one fleet mark for each member of your fleet in the match.

    for example in a typical 15 kills match, 5 fleet members, the max each member gets is
    28+5 = 33
    While the minimal count is 5

    Winning side: Gets the same, but only 1 fleet mark for kills, and 9 marks for the win.

    Same example:
    9+15+5=29
    and minimal is also 29

    Why the heck this? To facilitate participating by the loosing side, just sitting there AFK gives minimal marks, while actually playing and getting kills in will give you a lot more. so yes, been the losing side can get you more marks hen the winning side, however for that it has to be a very close match. If the loosing side will just afk or slack, the rewards are minimal.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    falloutx23 wrote: »
    If they don't want to pvp because it's "hard", then they can farm elsewhere. I hate the E1 should get a prize for participating mentality.

    Problem I think is that games have a hard time rewarding individual player performance since it's so hard to quantify. Reward raw K/D/A? People will either exclusively play escorts, or maybe cruisers/AoE sci ships will get lucky finishing blows even though they didn't really contribute. Reward damage dealt/healing? I shudder to imagine the amount of cheese people would brew up trying to game this one.

    It ends up with the game stagnating into whatever it already is at the time and discourages innovation or new FOTM tactics. The best thing IMO would be to just award bonus FMs (or whatever) for being on the winning team. It's not perfect but it beats the other options.
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Make it so the Winning side gets 5 per match (for a total of 15 for three matches/ finishing a single PvP play ques mission) and the loser only gets 1 per match.

    so for mission that have a "Play in X amount of X type PvP matches X times" to complete the winner will reap more benefits than the losers. Put a cap on how mnay times said matches can be played and viola.

    5 to 1 odds should hopefully make people at least try to play.
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  • edited July 2012
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  • gx4th23gx4th23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Let's see, dalnar started this yesterday. Starting clock on when they'll actually add starbase fleet marks into pvp.
    "No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." -Logimo
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    gx4th23 wrote: »
    Let's see, dalnar started this yesterday. Starting clock on when they'll actually add starbase fleet marks into pvp.

    Never? Why they don't? That could possibly improve PVP. Why they changed kerrat from a repeat to daily, QQ from newb-sausages about getting ***** by PVPers waiting for a Queue.

    Their solution, make kerrat a daily. Promise PVP content in S6, change mind, make it all PVE fail = kill PVP. Make PVE only game = mo'money.
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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