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Help with a MU Assault Cruiser as a TAC
starfleetfc
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello, I am currently using my first VA cruiser build by using a MU Assault Cruiser on my VA 50 TAC. Here is my load out:
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6096/screenshot2012072212532.jpg
(Be ware, I am slowly upgrading to MK XII once i get enough salvage)
Weaponry:
Fore:
Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XII [Borg]
Dual Antiproton Beam Bank Mk XII [Borg]
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XII [Borg]
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Borg]
Aft:
x3 Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Borg]
Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XI [Borg]
Systems:
Borg Deflector
Borg Engine
Assimilated Module
MACO Shield (recommended by Cedric in DOFFJOBS)
Consoles:
TAC:
Warhead Yield Chamber Mk XI (Blue Quality)
Zero Point Quantum Chamber MK XI (Green Quality)
Antiproton Mag Regulator (Common)
ENG:
Ablative Armor
Parametallic Hull Armor
Electroceramic Hull Armor
RCS Accelerator (all Rares)
SCI:
Assimilated Module
Antimatter Spread
So what do I improve? I want to run STF's, but I have alot of survivability and durability, and firepower if possible.
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6096/screenshot2012072212532.jpg
(Be ware, I am slowly upgrading to MK XII once i get enough salvage)
Weaponry:
Fore:
Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XII [Borg]
Dual Antiproton Beam Bank Mk XII [Borg]
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XII [Borg]
Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Borg]
Aft:
x3 Antiproton Beam Array Mk XI [Borg]
Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XI [Borg]
Systems:
Borg Deflector
Borg Engine
Assimilated Module
MACO Shield (recommended by Cedric in DOFFJOBS)
Consoles:
TAC:
Warhead Yield Chamber Mk XI (Blue Quality)
Zero Point Quantum Chamber MK XI (Green Quality)
Antiproton Mag Regulator (Common)
ENG:
Ablative Armor
Parametallic Hull Armor
Electroceramic Hull Armor
RCS Accelerator (all Rares)
SCI:
Assimilated Module
Antimatter Spread
So what do I improve? I want to run STF's, but I have alot of survivability and durability, and firepower if possible.
Post edited by starfleetfc on
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Comments
The only difference between the Mirror Universe Assault and the normal one is how it looks.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I will start by saying that OP has what my fleet calls a 'standard starfleet cruiser doctrine' type loadout with single fore and aft torpedo tubes, and 5BA/1DBB for primary weapons.
This loadout is perfectly feasible and easy to use, however your Tactical Console setup may need optimization.
For ships with less than 4-5 tac consoles, you may wish to try putting all Antiproton consoles for maximum primary weapon damage. This will allow you to increase your beam weapon damage (unbuffed) to somewhere very near to 1000 damage per shot or more if your Captain skills are specced for max damage.
The Borg 3 pc set gives you excellent auto repair and there is nothing wrong using the MACO shield for a power boost during combat maneuvers. (Power Conduit Link). Infact this is the most reliable recommendation for cruisers.
For armor setup I would recommend you take a review of the common threats you will be facing.
If it's STFs, save yourself a few bucks and use Electroceramic and Monotanium, because
1) Plasma weapon proc is deadly in Season 6 and EC armor gives you 35-38 specialized plasma resistance.
2) Monotanium is cheap anti torpedo defence.
However, for Fleet Actions you will now need to spec for variable threats per mission, thus 2-3 Neutronium Armor is recommended for versatility. Alone, a single N armor is not effective, but 2-3 stacked will give you at least 30-40 (depending on quality and captain skills) resistance to everything.
Lastly, you will need to shield tank a lot in a cruiser, and I strongly recommend considering putting Emitter Array, Field Generator, or Shield Emitter Amp in your Science consoles to increase your shield healing. In particular Emitter Amp allows more useful 'natural' shield regeneration in combat at 125 shield power.
FG increases shield capacity while emitter array slightly increases your EPTS, ST1, etc single-shot shield heals.
Feel free to experiment with either regen tanking (using 125 pwr and regen over time buff like TSS2 and Brace for Impact with shield distribution officer), or brute heal tanking or a combination thereof.
Finally, I would dump the RCS accelerator console as if you really want turnrate and fast attack capability, use the Omega 3 pc set for 15 deg/sec turnrate in combat plus a tactical cruise speed of impulse 28. Plus.. can't go wrong with Tetryon Rider.
To compensate for lack of tanking ability my MUAC is specced to rapid fire single copies of every shield buff and regen power there is, and all Tactical bridge officer power recharge times are only 9 to 15 seconds (as opposed to 30 for normal).
This coupled with extremely high standard combat speed and turnrate allows for much more effective tanking and offensive capability than the usual MACO setups... enough to run continuous cannon rapid fire (alpha strike in excess of 2.2k DPS) with polaron weapons.
As a defense suppression vessel polaron procs (especially from Phased Polaron from "Boldly They Rode" has the potential to create massive debuffs and can literally shut down PvE enemies with just a few salvoes, since Flow Capacitors captains skill enhances all those power drains. This with the effective CRF1 recharge time of less than 9 seconds, created a much more effective "destroyer" ship than just relying on Antiproton criticals.
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Not entirely true. The Mirror Assault has the Star Cruiser's +200 crew advantage.
Since you are a tac you could try out DEM3 or warp plasma 3 instead of 2. Or even aux2sif3 if you need some more hull heals.
something like
tac team 1, high yield 2
fire at will 1
shields 1, rsp 1, warp plasma 1, dem 3
shields 1, eng team 2, aux2sif 2
hazard emitter 1, transfer shields 2
this is a really basic setup. You could try swapping a few things around, like aux2sif 3/dem2.
You could also try 2 power to weapons 1 with 2 power to shields 2.
Consoles,
Eng: whatever plasma resist is x3, borg console
Sci: field gen "for extra shields" and either another field gen, or whatever p2w you have in there.
Tac: 3x antiproton
The turn rate console is a waste of time, you turn slow! a console isnt going to help.
3 more things, try out all beams and grab a beta 1. Whatever you do please answer this one question, what is power to aux 2 doing for you???? and 3rd, the name SFC3 as in star fleet command 3!
I very much disagree with the Electroceramic and Monotanium combination, 2 Neutronium are much better than either of these and suited to ever situation and also help against the Borg's Shield ignoring Antiproton beams.
You have got me there but 200 crew in a game where crew have little effect isn't such a big deal.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
EC (rare) = +35 Plasma / Tetryon Resistance, dirt cheap
Mono (rare) +35 Kinetic Resistance, dirt cheap
N (varying quality = +16 to +18 to all resistance, for a new player, he has to fork out quite a lot or know where to get them as mission rewards.
For a pure STF ship or a non-fleeted player learning STFs for the first time, he does not need to spend upwards of 400k (depending on seasonal variation) for a set of Neutroniums.
It is also proven that in pre S6 double or even triple Monotanium can almost torpedo proof a ship and this can be very useful to create adaptive resistance loadouts running a combination of Neutronium and focused resistances versus specific threats, at the player's discretion. In post S6, plasma resistance becomes important due to the plasma fire proc improvements.
There are many cases where you are going to expect to face certain enemy types in certain campaigns or scenarios.
For players like you and I who have been around for a while, we can afford Rare or Very Rare Neutronium for primary ships, and I do run 2-3 N armor at all times for the fleet actions for the reasons you mention.
That's all well and good provided the toon in question is rich and overflowing with EC.
For any other cases and especially for the newer pilots amongst us it's much cheaper to armor against certain primary threats - such as the insane projectile damage from PvE enemies, and ignore stuff that doesn't pose a threat, such as antiproton beams from Borg Cubes. They do so pitiful damage that a single A2SIF can out-heal the beam effectively.
Neutronium armor, esp. multiple copies thereof is definitely very effective.
But just like there are many ways to combine a variety of tactical, eng and sci solutions to create a powerful combat vessel, there's a lot more to starship defence than just "Neutronium everything", or at least, I do hope that the OP will approach starship design with an open mind instead of conforming to rules that he/she does not yet realize or comprehend.
Many players do take ideas off the forums for their own builds. Some do wholesale copies in the hope they are the top dog in combat performance.
Others take in the ideas involved in starship construction. They experiment, compare notes, review strategies and create their own custom high performance solution.
Ideas make for highly effective Captains who then go out to teach other newer players the art of starship construction, and explain why certain trends are popular and how to achieve goals using a variety of methods.
Like all my current STO related activities, I don't tell people "run DHCs and turrets only". STO is structured in an open and (outside of certain modes of gameplay) experimentation-friendly format that it'll be a waste to dumb it down to one or two strategies that everyone reports "noobs failing" on.
But of course, I am taking this stand because I've seen a lot of cases where a radically different idea starts to take a foothold in a certain department and start to grow into a viable strategy through collaborative input and sharing of ideas.
And that's what I'm here to do. I don't tell people learning the game (as OP obviously is doing, judging from the Bridge Officer setup alone) to run Neutronium and put a full stop to that.
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I keep a couple pieces on each character when I win it in STFs for that next ship, Also with the exchange currently bugged to the Delta Quadrant and back I'm finding prices weird and all over the place.
I don't know how fast he can grind Dilitium, but if he's hitting 8k a day it might be quicker for him to get it out of the D-Store than buy it off the exchange.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Stick with 6 beam arrays minimum, 7 would be better.
You're not really going to get very much out of multiple torpedo launchers and you won't have any powers to justify the DBB.
Tac consoles should be 3x AP Mag Regulator.
Beams make up the vast bulk of your damage output, anything else like a single Torpedo Launcher is a fun diversion at best.
Optimize for your beams.
Switch to 2 to 3 Neutronium MK XI as soon as you can farm them (I forget which episode you can get this from).
4th slot I would put the Borg console.
RCS accelerator isn't useful or needed, and with more beam arrays not even a concern.
Switch to 2x Field Generator as soon as you can craft or afford them.
Antimatter Spread is not really useful in PvE, is overpowered in PvP and is the exact opposite of what you want out of a console as a Cruiser.
What I mean by that is part of what Antimatter spread does is placate enemies.
You don't want them placated, you want them shooting at you and not not the Escorts and Sci ships on your team.
If you can't craft Field Generators yourself, and can't afford them from the exchange you can send me a tell or mail in-game @USS_Ultimatum and if you provide the unreplicatable materials then I'll craft them for free.
Here is a BOFF template for you to work from:
MUAC BOFF Template
You'll notice some slots are left blank, this is on purpose.
Some suggestions:
1 Open Tac Power: APB 1 or BFAW 2 or APD 1 (APD only if you have threat control, if you're focusing on PvE and you are in a Cruiser you should have Threat Control)
Open Eng powers
Either 2x EPTS 2 or 2x EPTS 3 or a combination of EPTS 2 or 3.
Two copies of EPTS regardless, but you have flexibility here.
Other powers:
RSP (good on Elite STFs)
Extend Shields (good for allies, blockade, no win situation)
Eject Warp Plasma (good for blockade, STFs, most fleet content)
It has a lot of awesome sauce potential but if done wrong it will have problems killing anything with substantial hitpoints.
In PvP, sure, ditch the quantum torpedoes, they're not very useful in that context due to different engagement parameters.
By contrast most of the high performing teammates in PvEs, ESTFs and new fleet actions do use torpedoes effectively for coordinated burst damage.
DPS is not the only thing that matters in that environment, and I would simply ditch the threat control function altogether if OP is still learning his Boff setup.
There are many ways to use these ships. Stereotyping them as function X or function Y simply kills the possibility of a less inexperienced pilot appreciating the diversity of STO starship construction.
The strategy for OP's experience level would be : -
Keep the functional BA / DBB / torpedo loadout.
Explore a higher survivability Boff power setup, including RSP, Aux2SIF3, EPTSx2, ET1 with supporting Science powers for improved shield resistance.
Slap on a Shield Redistribution Officer so Brace for Impact is another shield booster.
Give him as much survivability as possible so he has room to play.
He will get his 8 beam loadout for optimal DPS and he will get his Threat Control by himself through gameplay experience. He will extend shields or supply team heals in future through his own initiative and efficient piloting methods that no longer require a dozen self defence options.
Asking the OP to max out Threat Control right now will lead to him having huge difficulties in any PvE situation. He will have to either get a crash course in uber tanking filling in a role he is unprepared for, or give up and get an expensive respec so he doesn't get killed 500 times per Fleet Alert.
The important thing to consider is this: -
Does OP run premade teams with specialist team roles in fixed strategies? No, or not all the time.
Is OP capable of surviving aggro from either i) a whole Fleet Alert enemy wave or ii) 5 Elite Borg Spheres simultaneously. No.
Ditch the threat control and let him learn boff power synergy gradually, to work up to the required competency for TC tanking.
So this is what I propose: -
There are already a lot of good ideas in this thread featuring multiple paths of development each focusing on a different aspect of the game.
We are not going to tell him how cruisers should be used.
What I want to hear is where the OP wants to go next, because if we would listen to the 'client' here, we will avoid the sort of massive confusion and conflict of priorities that are all too common in any ship discussion thread.
Person A would say, I have this ship, I kinda like it and would like to see if others can help make it better.
Person B comes along, says, no you're doing it ALL WRONG, do it this way instead.
What does this conversation chain accomplish? Nothing. Confusion and player development never takes place due to that rude interruption, that's what happens.
OP already has good ideas on how he wants his ship to be setup. I would propose listening to him first and foremost, to help him find his niche, and plan out a path to development for that 8-AP beam crit monster that in open team gameplay, is very elusive for a reason : -
It needs appreciation for min-max synergy and a specialist engagement style to make it work. Newer or less experienced players will not attain that synergy immediately.
So stick to the loadout OP has, is familiar with, and work on the next issues one step at a time.... which is bridge officer setup.
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But as ussultimatum said, beams arrays will still make up the bulk of your firepower. And I can't justify the dual beam banks. You will have a difficult enough time keeping your target in your forward arc. When that occurs, your torpedoes will deal more than enough damage. For the rest of the time, you be spending a lot of time at broadsides, so freeing up the DBB slot and replacing it with a beam array will significantly improve your damage dealing capacity.
Finally, consider looking into a single mine launcher. They are surprisingly useful. The wide spread of the launch will dissuade anyone from trying to attack you from the rear and instead go for your stronger front or formidable flanks. A well-timed launch will cause high-yield plasma torpedoes to re-target towards the mines instead. I can't tell you how many times this has happened for me, and there's a miniscule chance the spread might confuse a torpedo spread into targeting the mines instead of your teammates. In theory anyway, haven't checked if it works in practice.
And if you set the mine launcher on autofire, well... Think of a puppy that hasn't been housebroken yet.
1) EDIT: Changed my original post as what I posted and what I remembered posting were in-congruent.
2) Power management was already provided in the BOFF template with 2x EPTW 1.
There is nothing to it beyond that.
Torpedos are not ideal for cruisers. They lack the Tac slots and turn rate to make effective use of them.
Even the AC with its base 7 turn rate still has to pull its rear beams off of targets to use a forward torpedo.
In fleet actions NPC ships can often be destroyed before a torpedo can even cover the distance to a target, and the big ships are generally designed to withstand that kind of burst through massive hull values.
And last, burst damage is the purview of escorts.
You can try to shoehorn some burst onto a Cruiser but it really is not optimal.
That's what the OP here is looking for, he's looking to improve beyond what he is currently running and the best way he can do that is to drop at least 2 of the 3 unneeded weapons he has.
This is the worst advice to anyone flying a cruiser.
You're saying that DPS is not that important and that he should also ditch threat control?
DPS does matter. Many enemies are still giant masses of hull.
Cruisers without threat control are the bane of PvE Fleet actions. They think their DPS is useful, they don't heal anyone and they don?t hold threat.
End result: Sci ships and Escorts take the brunt of attacks and end up doing most of the heavy lifting.
Cruisers need to be built for either healing or threat control, or a combination of both.
So if the OP is uncomfortable with holding threat, then he will need to build for more heals for the ships that will be taking damage for him.
I know a lot of people dislike typical MMO roles, and we are lucky in this game that we are given some flexibility within standard MMO roles.
However that doesn't elements of those roles are non-existent.
I've been grinding Fleet Actions in the queue since they went live, playing a Sci ship, a Cruiser and an Escort. The last thing I want to see are 4 cruisers none of whom apparently have threat control.
Low damage, non-threat ships that don't heal anyone are not a benefit to any group.
You don't have to hold threat, and you don't have to heal but you need to at least be doing one of them to really be useful.
Support DPS is also a part of the role, but it is secondary to the rest of what a Cruiser brings to the table.
6 is the best for the learning curve with a front and rear torp. 8 is not optimal i do not care what forums say my power even when chaining 2 EPTW would still drop to below 75 then damage is less then 6 beams any ways.
and i fly a galaxy and do not have any issues getting my front or rear on target even with out ditching the saucer
i do not run threat control and still get aggro in a galaxy running 6 beams and 2 torps
I suggested the following:
"Stick with 6 beam arrays minimum. 7 or 8 would be best."
That does leave some room for interpretation, I'll edit the original post.
However, I do not see how having 6, 7 or 8 beams will suddenly change how many buttons he will need to press.
BFAW is BFAW. You're going to press it once for all of your beams.
So unless you are a lunatic, and you are manually firing each and every beam without using any form of macro or spacebar I really would like for you to explain how more beams affects how he is going to chain his powers. (actually having less weapons to fire, like torpedos, will mean it will be easier to concentrate on other powers, not harder like you claim)
You, and several others, keep making the assumption we need to completely hold the OPs hand.
He's running MK XII borg gear already, he's obviously able to function in space combat I think he can figure out cycling EPTW 1.
If he would like a macro to chain his EPTX powers, we can help with that or he can find the really excellent guides already posted.
Front and rear torps are additions that will see him losing his optimal 70 degree broadside to fire a one off, nearly pointless quantum torpedo.
From my (admittedly limited) testing of beam DPS:
7 Beams > 8 Beams > 6 Beams
There were a few things I tried that saw 8 beams beating the rest, but I'm not going to go into them here.
So you are saying that when you fire your torpedos against mobile enemies you can also keep your rear beams on target?
You must instruct us all on how you manage to perform this magic trick.
Without threat control you will never hold aggro next to a well designed escort.
And you only need one second to fire torpedoes.
And yeah, threat control is pretty much recommended. For the damage resistance buff if nothing else.
I know exactly how maneuverable it is, because I own one.
That's not actually the point I'm making though.
You are better off keeping your target in your broadside arc, than wasting your time with them fore and aft to fire off a torpedo.
How many seconds to bring your nose on target?
How many more to bring your 70 degree broadside back on target?
How many total seconds did you lose?
Did you guarantee a hit against unshielded hull?
Did you use one of your 3 (Assault Cruiser) precious Tac slots for HYT or Torp Spread or are you firing a single, one off torpedo with no skill to back it up?
Will the resulting damage always, unequivocally, be massively better than just keeping your broadside arc for all of those seconds?
I can't answer any of these questions definitively, but my DPS parsings tell me the answer to the last question is "no".
I don't mean to come across as harsh.
I run a single fore mounted trico for fun. I just know that it's for fun, and that my beams are doing all of the important work.
If the OP wants to keep a quantum, because that's fun for them, then go for it.
Just be sure to optimize the rest of the weapon load out and use 6 or preferably 7 beam arrays.
From the artwork in the advert for the Tholian update, which shows an Assault Cruiser and Star Cruiser alongside the Tholian and Klingon ships, I assumed that it would just be a reskin of the existing hull, but instead the unpacked ship looks like a Star Cruiser.
I even checked to see if I could change the appearance, but the hull options are for the Vanguard and other Star Cruiser versions, not the Sovereign, etc.
Besides, you're running a tricobalt but (I suspect) without High Yield. That right there is a massively wasted potential, especially since high-yield tricobalts also come with a possible AoE chroniton proc. You should consider that.
To the OP, I'd like to recommend investing in a Subspace Jump console from the Exchange. It won't help you offensively, but it is great defensively to give you a few seconds breather while at the same time letting you pop off torpedoes before your target can react.
On the plus side, you unlock the "Mirror" material for normal Star Cruisers. Same with the other cruiser. I checked.
Actually yes the whole point of the Mirror Universe ships is to get a Star Cruiser shaped like a Sovereign (and a yellowish paint job) and a Assault Cruiser shaped like a Emmisary.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Fortunately there was a typo in something else, so I actually apologised for the previous /bug report with the second. That's the gentlemanly thing to do.
I'll stick to these simple and easy to understand things because it works. Who cares about DPS and threat? Fly the damn thing right and both will be taken into account more or less automatically. These ships reprise their movie roles as Trek cruisers that it's no difficulty learning to operate them seat of the pants and (surprise) newbie cruiser pilots are no liability to my teams, Elite map or not.
Any sort of argument RE: "I'm right you're all wrong" is no assistance to anyone reading the thread. Might as well put some political diatribe in like some other threads and call it a day, because the usefulness of the discussion had dissipated with the commencement of abovesaid debate.
This did confuse some on facebook and Dev Blog commenters too until someone pointed out the ships were meant to have "mirrored" roles. One of my favourite ship types now and when setup in the gunship / team healer role, a good complement to my patrol escorts.
Best of all? Prices are down to 350k so I'm getting MU ships for all my alts.
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