Yep, but some people dont understand a ship is nothing without a good commander. You can have the most powerful ship or starship in the world but if you dont know what your doing or how to use it, well then you can end up getting blown away like it was nothing.
On the last T5 thread I put forward that the Iowa Class battleships were not much better than the New York class from the turn of the century. No one could understand the point I was making so I just dropped it. Sure the Iowa could throw her shells farther but she consumed more fuel thus having a shorter range than the older class, she carried a few more shells than the older new york class, and her accuracy was pitiful while both were still serving. The math pointed out her accuracy at 30,000 yards was around just 7% meaning 7 hits out of 100 shots fired.
But I am getting off topic and besides that I need to cut my post short here seeing as how I have to leave for work.
The Grand Nagus has a very valid point, which I might add, has been covered at length in the past.
If Cryptic has finally decided that a T5 Nova and a T5 Sabre are acceptable within the game, then there is no argument that can be made for the exclusion of the Excalibur and the Vesper.
Both ships are 2400 era designs, making them newer and functionally superior to both the Nova and the Sabre.
And, seeing how Cryptic has locked certain ship skins from use on other vessels, for example, the Refit skin not being available on the T3 Excelsior, it shouldn't present a difficulty to lock out the Connie Refit skin from a T5 Excalibur / Vesper.
Yes, I know some people would not be happy unless they have their true blue TOS Connie or Connie Refit as a T5 vessel. (BMoney, I'm looking at you)
But the fact remains, regardless of the reasons why, or who denied it, Cryptic has said no to a T5 Connie.
However, seeing that their own lore states the Excalibur was designed as a new ship, only aesthetically based on the original Constitution, the Excalibur (and by default, the Vesper) should be treated independently, and therefore, a T5 version should be made available.
Now if only Cryptic would comment on these 2 particular ships...
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
The Grand Nagus has a very valid point, which I might add, has been covered at length in the past.
If Cryptic has finally decided that a T5 Nova and a T5 Sabre are acceptable within the game, then there is no argument that can be made for the exclusion of the Excalibur and the Vesper.
Both ships are 2400 era designs, making them newer and functionally superior to both the Nova and the Sabre.
And, seeing how Cryptic has locked certain ship skins from use on other vessels, for example, the Refit skin not being available on the T3 Excelsior, it shouldn't present a difficulty to lock out the Connie Refit skin from a T5 Excalibur / Vesper.
Yes, I know some people would not be happy unless they have their true blue TOS Connie or Connie Refit as a T5 vessel. (BMoney, I'm looking at you)
But the fact remains, regardless of the reasons why, or who denied it, Cryptic has said no to a T5 Connie.
However, seeing that their own lore states the Excalibur was designed as a new ship, only aesthetically based on the original Constitution, the Excalibur (and by default, the Vesper) should be treated independently, and therefore, a T5 version should be made available.
Now if only Cryptic would comment on these 2 particular ships...
That really is the point. Regardless of whatever happens with the whole T5 connie issue, the Excalibur/Exeter/Vesper should be in the fleet store *now*.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
That really is the point. Regardless of whatever happens with the whole T5 connie issue, the Excalibur/Exeter/Vesper should be in the fleet store *now*.
The problem is, people can't see past the mistake that Cryptic initially made, by linking the skin for a 100+ year old ship (Constitution Refit) to the same vehicle that contains skins for 2 brand new ships (Excalibur, Vesper) which never should have happened in the first place.
In all honesty, had I been making the design decisions, the TOS Connie would have been Tier 1, as it is now, the Connie Refit would have been Tier 2, as it is now, but with 2 additional TMP era skins available. Perhaps the slightly off-canon Akula (Seen here) and the Constellation Class (Seen here).
Then, the Excalibur/Vesper/Exeter would have resided in Tier 3, as obvious "next in line" design advancements of their Connie predecessors.
But, sadly, we can only deal with what we have in front of us, and because a mistake was made, we're having a tough time correcting it in such a way that doesn't upset TOS Connie and Connie Refit purists.
---EDIT---
I'd even go so far as to say that the Cruiser line of ships should have been split into 2 trees. Light Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser, and the Light Cruiser line could have started with a TOS Connie, and progressed all the way to T5, ending with the Excalibur, representing a "frigate" type ship from start to finish.
Then, the Heavy Cruiser line would have started with the Miranda, progressed to a new T2 ship in that line, and from there, progressed along the current Cruiser path as it currently exists.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
The problem is, people can't see past the mistake that Cryptic initially made, by linking the skin for a 100+ year old ship (Constitution Refit) to the same vehicle that contains skins for 2 brand new ships (Excalibur, Vesper) which never should have happened in the first place.
In all honesty, had I been making the design decisions, the TOS Connie would have been Tier 1, as it is now, the Connie Refit would have been Tier 2, as it is now, but with 2 additional TMP era skins available. Perhaps the slightly off-canon Akula ( Seen here) and the Constellation Class (Seen here).
Then, the Excalibur/Vesper/Exeter would have resided in Tier 3, as obvious "next in line" design advancements of their Connie predecessors.
But, sadly, we can only deal with what we have in front of us, and because a mistake was made, we're having a tough time correcting it in such a way that doesn't upset TOS Connie and Connie Refit purists.
---EDIT---
I'd even go so far as to say that the Cruiser line of ships should have been split into 2 trees. Light Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser, and the Light Cruiser line could have started with a TOS Connie, and progressed all the way to T5, ending with the Excalibur, representing a "frigate" type ship from start to finish.
Then, the Heavy Cruiser line would have started with the Miranda, progressed to a new T2 ship in that line, and from there, progressed along the current Cruiser path as it currently exists.
It seems to me that with the ability to move swiftly past lower tiers (including Lt. Commander/Tier 2) starships, that it would do very little damage to the game to split those designs apart in some way now. Would that really affect any of us who have played for one or two years and have those lower tier starships on our account? After all, what folks are asking for are design decisions meant to benefit the end game which the Devs are predominantly focused upon at this time. I mean, the only reason any player has held on to any favorite lower tier version is lack of higher tier version.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
It seems to me that with the ability to move swiftly past lower tiers (including Lt. Commander/Tier 2) starships, that it would do very damage to the game to split those designs apart in some way now. Would that really affect any of us who have played for one or two years and have those lower tier starships on our account? After all, what folks are asking for are design decisions meant to benefit the end game which the Devs are predominantly focused upon at this time. I mean, the only reason any player has held on to any favorite lower tier version is lack of higher tier version.
I probably should have clarified, but I was speaking about design in the past.
Had I been in the design decisions chair back in 2009 or 2008 or whenever Cryptic got started on STO, then that is the path I might have taken, the whole Light / Heavy cruiser branches.
I agree that now, there would be virtually no benefit to making that change (unless Cryptic was planning a complete redesign of ships and tiers) and that it would probably do more harm than good.
I could have been a bit clearer about that. Just a case of the "what could have beens" creeping into my discussion of the "here and now".
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
It seems to me that with the ability to move swiftly past lower tiers (including Lt. Commander/Tier 2) starships, that it would do very damage to the game to split those designs apart in some way now. Would that really affect any of us who have played for one or two years and have those lower tier starships on our account? After all, what folks are asking for are design decisions meant to benefit the end game which the Devs are predominantly focused upon at this time. I mean, the only reason any player has held on to any favorite lower tier version is lack of higher tier version.
Which is why I still have all my starships back to my NX class. I like the style and lines of the starships I have currently and only have them still cause there is no higher tier version of them.
I even came up with a way to make the NX and Constitution class a T5 level but it would still not be as strong as more modern powerful T5 level starships which would have made everyone happy.
The problem is, some people can't see past the mistake that Cryptic initially made, by linking the skin for a 100+ year old ship (Constitution Refit) to the same vehicle that contains skins for 2 brand new ships (Excalibur, Vesper) which never should have happened in the first place.
Fixed for you. There have been numerous people in this thread and others that said they would be satisfied with a T5 Excal/Exeter/Vesper. And there have been others that said they would not. My response to the latter is simple: dont use it. It wont hurt my feelings one bit.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Fixed for you. There have been numerous people in this thread and others that said they would be satisfied with a T5 Excal/Exeter/Vesper. And there have been others that said they would not. My response to the latter is simple: dont use it. It wont hurt my feelings one bit.
Just use the Exeter, Can't argue it isn't new.....
Just use the Exeter, Can't argue it isn't new.....
The trick is, the Exeter is a C-store ship so that skin would only be available to people who have actually purchased it. So it could be a skin option on the T5 Excalibur for those that have purchased the Exeter ship.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
WHY the heck would CBS say no to our game making a T5 Constitution class starship!?
What would the problem be? what would it matter to them at ALL!?
PS: I love the wrath of Khan phaser beams too. I wouldn't call them pulse phasers- just on the grounds that the Defiant uses Pulsed phaser cannons, but I would call them oscilating phasers or something like that.
We have a TOS blue phaser for ships, and a tos hand phaser weapons set, why cant we get some cool wrath of Khan Phasers for ships and some star trek 2 or 3 hand phasers as seen here:
I've REALLY wanted this phaser to make my wrath of khan costumes complete. I couldn't find any good visuals on the hand phaser beam but it also "oscilates" like the Enterprise - A phaser beams did.
And on setting 2 when Kirk burns the worm that comes out of Checkov's ear the phaser beam splits into a multi spectrum beam like multiple smaller beams focusing into a point. It's really different and unique, PLEASE GIVE IT TO US! hehe
WHY the heck would CBS say no to our game making a T5 Constitution class starship!?
What would the problem be? what would it matter to them at ALL!?
We havent been given any specific reason, but the truth is the reason doesnt matter because they still said no. What does matter, however, is that the excal *isnt* a connie, so there is no reason it shouldnt be in the fleet store.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
I like the TOS Connie design. I have also seen as said before; T1 ships are usable in T5 content. Having a T5 Connie would be cool, but I also got another idea. Cryptic could add ship upgrades. The lower the tier, the more upgrades the ship could have, but with much higher cost.
Lets say you bought a connie for 500 Zen. You wanted to upgrade the boff slots on the ship. Let?s say that would be a tolal of 50 000 Dilithium to give you a T5 console setup. That would be something around 500 Zen.
If we also say that an hull upgrade would be 500 zen and the console slot upgrade 500 zen. All that would be a total of 2000 Zen for getting a T5 ship out of a T1.
Higher tier ship should also have upgrades, but fewer and cheaper. That would make it more expensive to get a T5 ship out of a T1 in the long term, but it would allow users to fly the ship they want to fly.
Superspeed500
- I am one of the owners of SN Fleet. Join us in our next adventure!
My gripe about the Connie is that it is a tier 1 vessel and the BO and console slots are very limited.
I am hoping for at least a Commander lvl tier upgrade. I would love to fly my Connie without overly being handicapped.
I don't mind not having a tier 5 version, but I do mind not having at least a Commander level Connie.
Players here gave a Great idea in regards to upgrades - Please sell limited Upgrade packages for older ships that will not hinder Fleet Ship acquisitions or CStore ship acquisitions.
I am more than willing to BUY a Commander Tier Upgrade package for my Connie or Centaur.
To be honest, the Centaur class doesn't even belong at Tier 1 nor next to teh Miranda - That vessel was used during the Dominion War and went head to head with the Jem'Hadar Attack Fighter. Go figure :rolleyes:
EDIT: This thread has been closed due to being a "necro" thread. Remember, if a thread has not been posted to in over 30 days, please start a new thread to discuss a topic Thanks! ~BranFlakes
Comments
Yep, but some people dont understand a ship is nothing without a good commander. You can have the most powerful ship or starship in the world but if you dont know what your doing or how to use it, well then you can end up getting blown away like it was nothing.
On the last T5 thread I put forward that the Iowa Class battleships were not much better than the New York class from the turn of the century. No one could understand the point I was making so I just dropped it. Sure the Iowa could throw her shells farther but she consumed more fuel thus having a shorter range than the older class, she carried a few more shells than the older new york class, and her accuracy was pitiful while both were still serving. The math pointed out her accuracy at 30,000 yards was around just 7% meaning 7 hits out of 100 shots fired.
But I am getting off topic and besides that I need to cut my post short here seeing as how I have to leave for work.
If Cryptic has finally decided that a T5 Nova and a T5 Sabre are acceptable within the game, then there is no argument that can be made for the exclusion of the Excalibur and the Vesper.
Both ships are 2400 era designs, making them newer and functionally superior to both the Nova and the Sabre.
And, seeing how Cryptic has locked certain ship skins from use on other vessels, for example, the Refit skin not being available on the T3 Excelsior, it shouldn't present a difficulty to lock out the Connie Refit skin from a T5 Excalibur / Vesper.
Yes, I know some people would not be happy unless they have their true blue TOS Connie or Connie Refit as a T5 vessel. (BMoney, I'm looking at you)
But the fact remains, regardless of the reasons why, or who denied it, Cryptic has said no to a T5 Connie.
However, seeing that their own lore states the Excalibur was designed as a new ship, only aesthetically based on the original Constitution, the Excalibur (and by default, the Vesper) should be treated independently, and therefore, a T5 version should be made available.
Now if only Cryptic would comment on these 2 particular ships...
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
That really is the point. Regardless of whatever happens with the whole T5 connie issue, the Excalibur/Exeter/Vesper should be in the fleet store *now*.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
The problem is, people can't see past the mistake that Cryptic initially made, by linking the skin for a 100+ year old ship (Constitution Refit) to the same vehicle that contains skins for 2 brand new ships (Excalibur, Vesper) which never should have happened in the first place.
In all honesty, had I been making the design decisions, the TOS Connie would have been Tier 1, as it is now, the Connie Refit would have been Tier 2, as it is now, but with 2 additional TMP era skins available. Perhaps the slightly off-canon Akula (Seen here) and the Constellation Class (Seen here).
Then, the Excalibur/Vesper/Exeter would have resided in Tier 3, as obvious "next in line" design advancements of their Connie predecessors.
But, sadly, we can only deal with what we have in front of us, and because a mistake was made, we're having a tough time correcting it in such a way that doesn't upset TOS Connie and Connie Refit purists.
---EDIT---
I'd even go so far as to say that the Cruiser line of ships should have been split into 2 trees. Light Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser, and the Light Cruiser line could have started with a TOS Connie, and progressed all the way to T5, ending with the Excalibur, representing a "frigate" type ship from start to finish.
Then, the Heavy Cruiser line would have started with the Miranda, progressed to a new T2 ship in that line, and from there, progressed along the current Cruiser path as it currently exists.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
It seems to me that with the ability to move swiftly past lower tiers (including Lt. Commander/Tier 2) starships, that it would do very little damage to the game to split those designs apart in some way now. Would that really affect any of us who have played for one or two years and have those lower tier starships on our account? After all, what folks are asking for are design decisions meant to benefit the end game which the Devs are predominantly focused upon at this time. I mean, the only reason any player has held on to any favorite lower tier version is lack of higher tier version.
I probably should have clarified, but I was speaking about design in the past.
Had I been in the design decisions chair back in 2009 or 2008 or whenever Cryptic got started on STO, then that is the path I might have taken, the whole Light / Heavy cruiser branches.
I agree that now, there would be virtually no benefit to making that change (unless Cryptic was planning a complete redesign of ships and tiers) and that it would probably do more harm than good.
I could have been a bit clearer about that. Just a case of the "what could have beens" creeping into my discussion of the "here and now".
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Which is why I still have all my starships back to my NX class. I like the style and lines of the starships I have currently and only have them still cause there is no higher tier version of them.
I even came up with a way to make the NX and Constitution class a T5 level but it would still not be as strong as more modern powerful T5 level starships which would have made everyone happy.
Fixed for you. There have been numerous people in this thread and others that said they would be satisfied with a T5 Excal/Exeter/Vesper. And there have been others that said they would not. My response to the latter is simple: dont use it. It wont hurt my feelings one bit.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Just use the Exeter, Can't argue it isn't new.....
Dec/2008
The trick is, the Exeter is a C-store ship so that skin would only be available to people who have actually purchased it. So it could be a skin option on the T5 Excalibur for those that have purchased the Exeter ship.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
What would the problem be? what would it matter to them at ALL!?
PS: I love the wrath of Khan phaser beams too. I wouldn't call them pulse phasers- just on the grounds that the Defiant uses Pulsed phaser cannons, but I would call them oscilating phasers or something like that.
We have a TOS blue phaser for ships, and a tos hand phaser weapons set, why cant we get some cool wrath of Khan Phasers for ships and some star trek 2 or 3 hand phasers as seen here:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051012055448/memoryalpha/en/images/4/43/Constitution_class_refit_configuration_phasers.jpg
&
http://images.wikia.com/startrek/images/5/5c/Terrell_phaser.jpg
&
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Atalskes_phaser_IV
I've REALLY wanted this phaser to make my wrath of khan costumes complete. I couldn't find any good visuals on the hand phaser beam but it also "oscilates" like the Enterprise - A phaser beams did.
And on setting 2 when Kirk burns the worm that comes out of Checkov's ear the phaser beam splits into a multi spectrum beam like multiple smaller beams focusing into a point. It's really different and unique, PLEASE GIVE IT TO US! hehe
We havent been given any specific reason, but the truth is the reason doesnt matter because they still said no. What does matter, however, is that the excal *isnt* a connie, so there is no reason it shouldnt be in the fleet store.
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Lets say you bought a connie for 500 Zen. You wanted to upgrade the boff slots on the ship. Let?s say that would be a tolal of 50 000 Dilithium to give you a T5 console setup. That would be something around 500 Zen.
If we also say that an hull upgrade would be 500 zen and the console slot upgrade 500 zen. All that would be a total of 2000 Zen for getting a T5 ship out of a T1.
Higher tier ship should also have upgrades, but fewer and cheaper. That would make it more expensive to get a T5 ship out of a T1 in the long term, but it would allow users to fly the ship they want to fly.
- I am one of the owners of SN Fleet. Join us in our next adventure!
An Escort that can't turn is not an Escort.
I am hoping for at least a Commander lvl tier upgrade. I would love to fly my Connie without overly being handicapped.
I don't mind not having a tier 5 version, but I do mind not having at least a Commander level Connie.
Players here gave a Great idea in regards to upgrades - Please sell limited Upgrade packages for older ships that will not hinder Fleet Ship acquisitions or CStore ship acquisitions.
I am more than willing to BUY a Commander Tier Upgrade package for my Connie or Centaur.
To be honest, the Centaur class doesn't even belong at Tier 1 nor next to teh Miranda - That vessel was used during the Dominion War and went head to head with the Jem'Hadar Attack Fighter. Go figure :rolleyes:
EDIT: This thread has been closed due to being a "necro" thread. Remember, if a thread has not been posted to in over 30 days, please start a new thread to discuss a topic