We are not talking about faction completion, but the possible slow dismantling of the KDF by the process of having our once unique signature abilities sold off in the future.
Why does the KDF (or anyone else) get unique signature abilities though? What makes them so special?
Cause 5 shows were about Starfleet and we're the main story, not the bad-guy expansion pack.
Cause thats where resources were allocated.
Cause we outnumber you 5-1.
Such a tired arguing point.
Star Wars Had six movies about the Republic, yet in ToR more play the Empire then the Republic. IF the KDF had been handled right, we more than likely would have RETAINED the numbers of KDF players we had at launch, (back when Quo'Nos had far more than ten instances), instead of losing them completely. As we did. Most of the KDF fans just left and do not even play Fed.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
The idea that Feds are "good guys" and the Klinks/Rommies are "bad guys" is self-defeating in and of itself. The whole point of the series is to open minds to horizons and expand definitions of these terms to show the perspectives of other cultures.
Nevertheless, my thoughts more or less reflect the points Roach has made through the thread. Still, my final thoughts will always rest on the implications of PvP, as what is good for PvP is ultimately good for the survival of the game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Hence my fears. I'm all for growth and diversity but so far that seems to be disapeering in STO and makes me wonder if its not prepping for folding the KDf into the federation rather than attempt to repair it.
Of course that different rumor all together.
True, but then why did the feds never fix it and use it against the Borg, the Romulans, the Klingons, etc?
The Phase shift cloak was a secret exparment that starfleet command started, while violating sevral treaties. That is why Picard made sure to decloak the Enterprise where the Romulans could see them, so Starfleet would have to answer for it.
Sollaf: Join date Sep 2009, Lifer. Disgruntled with the JHSS, my Bug feels less shiny now.
Really? Let people pay for what they want. besides in a Star Trek Universe, what's wrong with practicality when your basically a universe at war or cold-hot war.
Hey we live in a JJ Abrams Star Trek universe where practicality and the need to be tactically sound . So ef the old cannon.
The idea that Feds are "good guys" and the Klinks/Rommies are "bad guys" is self-defeating in and of itself. The whole point of the series is to open minds to horizons and expand definitions of these terms to show the perspectives of other cultures.
And yet look at the mission design. The DOFF missions are an assortment of Blackmail, Assassinate, Pilliage Farming Colony, Raid Unarmed Freighter, Sell Prisoners To Slavers, on and on and on. The few story missions are little better, where even when you do the right thing the dialogue reminds you that you're doing it for selfish, violent, or devious reasons. My favorite eps of TNG usually had Duras or Gowron in them, because I found Klingon politics fascinating, but this game doesn't have those Klingons. These Klingons are, at best, TOS Klingons, orcs in space. Moral relativism only goes so far.
Well they never fixed it due to the treaty of Algeron. But any good diplomat will tell you a treaty is only valid as long as the entities party to the treaty are able to enforce it.
With the Romulans unable to enforce the treaty the Fed could of taken the Pegasus out of mothballs
according to what ive read in game, the Federation considers the Treaty of Algeron to be defunct ever since the loss of Romulus, because the romulan government no longer existed. the current romulan government is considered to be an entirely new political entity. (and that was basically the federation response when diplomatically confronted about the blatantly cloaking ships)
and with that being said, it could be argued that it is illogical for every federation ship to Not have cloak. it allows you to avoid a fight just as easily as start one. its easy to make easy to install and significantly increases the ship, and by extension crew, survival rate. there is no logical reason for the federation not to embrace cloaking tech.
that being said, fed has enough cloak for now in my opinion. if new stuff is made for the feds, it should be something unique that further defines the faction, not just another klingon rip off. maybe more transwarp or better slipstream, something resulting from the fruits of all that science the federation does instead of killing people.
These Klingons are, at best, TOS Klingons, orcs in space. Moral relativism only goes so far.
Which is why fans like myself are asking for a complete and better KDF faction, so we do not stay Orks in space but have some sense of the greatness of teh KDF and Pve content to go with it.
Of course most times that subject comes up in the forums, its barked down by some feds whom seem to only want the orks in space to fight as they (feds) play basically Earth Warmonger and opportunistic Politician. Niether faction is as it should be represented.
This thread though is not about the feds failing to live to the ideals of the UFP or the KDF failing to move above the brutality of being space orks, but is about Cloaking and the BoP possibly being sold out from under the KDF to make a quick buck. Nothing more.
And yet look at the mission design. The DOFF missions are an assortment of Blackmail, Assassinate, Pilliage Farming Colony, Raid Unarmed Freighter, Sell Prisoners To Slavers, on and on and on. The few story missions are little better, where even when you do the right thing the dialogue reminds you that you're doing it for selfish, violent, or devious reasons. My favorite eps of TNG usually had Duras or Gowron in them, because I found Klingon politics fascinating, but this game doesn't have those Klingons. These Klingons are, at best, TOS Klingons, orcs in space. Moral relativism only goes so far.
And yet all these things are subject to your personal outlook. The Klingon Empire has the smallest fraction of the Federation's resources, and its only means of self-sustainability is its ability to make use of their massive military might to conquer surrounding territories and assimilate their resources. They weren't always like that. The loss of the Tal'Ihnor Gates, and later Praxis, they've suffered tremendously. What does a fiercely independent warrior society do at that point to maintain their way of life?
They find new resources, even if they must take it by force.
You apply your democratic ideology (a flawed one at that, as you aren't even open-minded to the cultures of others in which a democratic society exists to honor) to an ideology that doesn't at all incorporate it. It simply doesn't apply.
When you lose all means of self-sustainability as a society that would rather die than be assimilated into the culture of someone else's society (a mindset similar to the USA, for instance - the idea of surrendering our sovereignty to another nation is asinine), yet are left with an incredibly powerful army and navy made up of fiercely loyal and ferociously independent warriors, what would you do?
If you say you would seek outside help through peaceful negotiation, you'd probably be assassinated (and rightfully so).
There is no such thing as a "bad guy" race, a "bad guy" country, etc. Just different. The exception stands as the Borg, but even then, they aren't. Their collective hive mind is, the facility that controls them.
Replace that collective hive mind with Jesus and suddenly you'd have a very different Borg.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
This thread though is not about the feds failing to live to the ideals of the UFP or the KDF failing to move above the brutality of being space orks, but is about Cloaking and the BoP possibly being sold out from under the KDF to make a quick buck. Nothing more.
Sadly I think that it no longer about the IP or keeping the factions unique. It is about selling stuff through the store.
Where are the FE's? Where is the ongoing content? You can't even buy content in the cash shop. It has turned into nothing but a cash grab. The least amount of resources spent for the most money gained.
And the easiest thing to do is cannibalize (rather that complete or finish) the half done faction to put onto the store.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
======================================
Dazed and confused at what goes on in STO since Feb 2010
There is no such thing as a "bad guy" race, a "bad guy" country, etc. Just different.
And if they slaughter a bunch of other cultures, commit a little genocide and enslavement here and there, its okay for them because its their culture and we shouldn't judge? No, there comes a point where you need to be willing to say something is flat out wrong, because otherwise that argument can be used (and has been used) to justify anything.
Sadly I think that it no longer about the IP or keeping the factions unique. It is about selling stuff through the store.
Where are the FE's? Where is the ongoing content? You can't even buy content in the cash shop. It has turned into nothing but a cash grab. The least amount of resources spent for the most money gained.
And the easiest thing to do is cannibalize (rather that complete or finish) the half done faction to put onto the store.
I'd love to be able to buy a cross faction starship or a newer klingon ship.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
And if they slaughter a bunch of other cultures, commit a little genocide and enslavement here and there, its okay for them because its their culture and we shouldn't judge? No, there comes a point where you need to be willing to say something is flat out wrong, because otherwise that argument can be used (and has been used) to justify anything.
and the federation does not do this?
how many refugees have I rescued from Starfleet aggression? how much genocide dies Starfleet tolerate in the name of survival?
and the answer is to steal cloaking technology from the Romulans or the Klingons? to further marginalize others in the name of Starfleet amusement?
yes, the answer for all the crimes of the Klingon Empire is writing off the Klingons, for the greater glory of your Starfleet.
yes, steal the phased cloak, like Picard should have done, correct? that is the true face of Starfleet... a mirror for the ork.
And if they slaughter a bunch of other cultures, commit a little genocide and enslavement here and there, its okay for them because its their culture and we shouldn't judge? No, there comes a point where you need to be willing to say something is flat out wrong, because otherwise that argument can be used (and has been used) to justify anything.
Spoken like someone truly ignorant to the Klingon society and general trek story. Enjoy your evening... I'm pretty good, but while I can occasionally treat it, I can't cure stupid.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
And if they slaughter a bunch of other cultures, commit a little genocide and enslavement here and there, its okay for them because its their culture and we shouldn't judge? No, there comes a point where you need to be willing to say something is flat out wrong, because otherwise that argument can be used (and has been used) to justify anything.
Reginamala.....I will give you a quote from this fine gentleman I use as my sig-avatar.
- "Did you guys ever even watch the show?"
Serioulsy.. it is very apparent that you have not watched hardly any Star Trek. Especially anything pertaining to Klingons, since you know next to nothing about them. So far, seemingly everything you have ignorantly assumed about Klingon culture and way of life you have gotten off of Fed QQ threads.
If you don't know what you are talking about, don't go throwing your opinion around and thrusting it into everyone's face. It makes you look ignorant. Secondly, before you start trying to take up arms and defend some obscure standpoint, make sure you are actually helping it instead of doing it a further disservice with your blatant ignorance. Unless, of course, you are really a Klingon trying to make Feds look like complete idiots... which is still wrong and not needed, and doesn't help anyone.
Serioulsy.. it is very apparent that you have not watched hardly any Star Trek. Especially anything pertaining to Klingons, since you know next to nothing about them. So far, seemingly everything you have ignorantly assumed about Klingon culture and way of life you have gotten off of Fed QQ threads.
If you don't know what you are talking about, don't go throwing your opinion around and thrusting it into everyone's face. It makes you look ignorant. Secondly, before you start trying to take up arms and defend some obscure standpoint, make sure you are actually helping it instead of doing it a further disservice with your blatant ignorance. Unless, of course, you are really a Klingon trying to make Feds look like complete idiots... which is still wrong and not needed, and doesn't help anyone.
I was writing about my impressions of the Klingon faction as based on the dialogue and mission descriptions for the story and doff assignments as written in the game. Yes they are quite different in other sources, as Roach pointed out above, but thats not whats in the game. But then I let myself get caught up and sidetracked on my opinions on the failings of moral relativism, which is seperate and only tangentially relevant thing. As to the show viewings, TNG several times and about a third each of DS9 and Enterprise (and a bit of Voyager but couldn't stand it), so not as much as some but not "ignorant."
The original point I was trying to make (despite not even wanting a Fed BoP, just for adding an alternate point of view to the discussion), and apparently failing miserably at, was that the Klingons as they are now are not a full faction and likely never will be, and so the 'we are unique and special' argument does not stand up very well. That is obviously just my opinion, but I was under the impression that is what this sort of forum was for, everyone states their opinions and we go back and forth on the merits and weaknesses of each opinion offered. Clearly I haven't made my arguments very well (sidetracking myself doesn't help), nor have I seen anything to make me change my own view much, and/or I misjudged the purpose of this thread to begin with.
Which is why fans like myself are asking for a complete and better KDF faction, so we do not stay Orks in space but have some sense of the greatness of teh KDF and Pve content to go with it.
Do you really think having more missions would somehow fix that? What makes anyone think Cryptc would give the KDF 25 more missions that weren't more of the same? Read the Doff assignments the KDF has, its clear Cryptic views them as the bad guys. By the same token that the KDF are Orcs in Space, Starfleet are mostly lawful stupid (Its a reference to bad Paladin or other "good people" characterization in RPGs if anyone didn't get it). Most of my characters are Feds and I hate my faction being lawful stupid.
Seriously, its like DS9 never happened to inject just a little depth to Star Trek!
P.S. My memory is a bit hazy on the episode, but if Picard really did decloak just to stand on his high horse and get in the way of people trying to defend the federation he would be considered a traitor in spirit if not in law, and removed from command and starfleet as soon as possible. But alas... main character plot armor.
Well, someone who can't stand Voyager can't be all bad:)
I play both factions with an equal number of of characters on either "side" of the coin. I'm a sucker for an underdog so my sympathies and by extension my loyalties are with the KDF.
I agree that "uniqueness" of one faction is not a valid arguement whether made on the part of a whole or incomplete faction. I would however argue that the preservation of the intellectual property as a whole is justified by that same argument.
If the core concepts of the franchise are persistently discarded for whatever reason over the course of time it will eventually cease to be Star Trek. We all have different definitions of when we reach that point depending on our backgrounds; But we all have a threshold.
It was STO that decided Klingons would once again be a threat to the Federation. If anything gave them a bad rep(space ork)it was the game.
I remember when TNG was just getting rdy to launch. Every news channel was talking about Worf and how Klingons were going to be our friends now and how that reflected upon real life with the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Worf was a transcending character, he more than any other Klingon defined what it means to be a Klingon. Anyone familar with bushido, the way of the warrior, will see many of the same facets. Worf possessed great honor and courage, he also had a big heart. He showed us how much Klingons and Humans had in common. I cannot give Micheal Dorn enough credit for his role.
Klingons will never, ever be orks in space-atleast to me. STO has wrongly tarnished their heritage. I can understand why they chose Klingons to be the other faction, its written on the wall that Klingons are the runaway favorite non-fed faction. The reason why it didn't work is you can't undo everything we saw and learned in TNG and DS9.
Klingons are too noble, too awesome, to be the sterotype villian.
Hasn't really changed. At the start sure that was the selling point but the Fed/KDF war has been at a standstill since they uncovered B'vat's plot in the first featured series. There has been story progression since then.
And K'Valk was cool. He was all about that ramming speed. He didn't sell out.
the Federation considers the Treaty of Algeron to be defunct ever since the loss of Romulus, because the romulan government no longer existed. the current romulan government is considered to be an entirely new political entity. (and that was basically the federation response when diplomatically confronted about the blatantly cloaking ships)
The problem is that we don't really know what's happening in the Romulan Star Empire. Shoot we don't even know exactly how big the empire is. Looking around the internets wikipedia has this to say about the size of the empire:
There is no canonical information concerning the true size of the Romulan Empire in comparison to the Federation. Star Trek writer/producer Ronald D. Moore has indicated that it is larger than the Klingon Empire but smaller than the Federation. However, in the Voyager computer game, Elite Force, the Romulan Star Empire is approximately two-thirds larger than the Klingon Empire, and is well over five times as large as the Federation, considering the Romulans' expansive nature. In the Star Trek Atlas, the Romulan Star Empire is about 1/3 the size of the Klingon Empire and surrounded by the Federation. Their territory has a spherical shape with a small tail shape extension heading to the Delta Quadrant. In the book The Romulan Way by Diane Duane and Peter Morewood set in the 23rd century, it is implied that the Federation's resources far outstrip the Romulans, and in any conflict, the Federation would prevail by sheer weight of numbers. Several other episodes and licensed materials such as the Next Generation episode Face of the Enemy and the video game Star Trek: Starfleet Command III support this, and give the indication that the force multipliers of cloaking technology and other such secrecy is the only way they can maintain an even footing with the numerically superior Federation.
This is important to know because we don't know just how much damage the supernova caused. They lost the Capital System and sure that would put things into a tailspin but then again their culture is used to dealing with all manner of government take overs. If they only lost a couple of systems then there are still billions and billions of Romulans left after the disaster.
Playing through the Romulan arcs in the FE missions I didn't get the feeling that they were affected quite that much by the events. A little fighting to figure out who is in charge and moving the capital to a new star system and then it's business as usual.
Getting back to the Treaty of Algeron, sure the government has changed hands again but no matter who is running the show the citizens of the RSE are still the same people they were before the supernova. Whether the treaty is active or not the people of the RSE will remember that the Federation dumped the treaty with them the first chance they had. If the Federation have any hope of someday becoming friends with the RSE then the Federation need to honor all Treaties between them. Otherwise it could leave hostilities that resulted in open warfare. This is why I think the Federation should not be using any cloaking technology.
Its not cloaking that define the KDF...
Its not carriers that define the KDF...
Its not BOPs that define the KDF...
Its being an unfinished faction that defines the KDF.
And don't worry, Feds are NEVER going to take that away from you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To Borgly Go Webcomic - Season 1, Season 2, Season 3 Dei schware Pheisa Launzn trifft'n Robotazombiewiarfl und schlitzt eam fui auf. 50.000 Schodn, oida.
The amount of mission in this game is on the anemic side, no matter the faction.
Considered that it was a p2p game in the past, most other games have more missions for level 1-10 then sto has in its entirely.
Do you really think having more missions would somehow fix that?
I think a complete KDF faction with level one to endgame playability and missions that tie-up the loose ends of the KDF, give life to the houses of the Empire and put real focus on what we are doing in STO can only improve the KDF and the games options for overall playability.
I believe that the continued pimping out of all things that may bring a dollar in profit and focusing that aproach just on one faction near exclusively is going to kill STO in the long run and hurt the games chances of every being more than a fan driven ego stroke with no real substance.
Comments
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Cause its cosmetic.
Cause 5 shows were about Starfleet and we're the main story, not the bad-guy expansion pack.
Cause thats where resources were allocated.
Cause we outnumber you 5-1.
Such a tired arguing point.
Star Wars Had six movies about the Republic, yet in ToR more play the Empire then the Republic. IF the KDF had been handled right, we more than likely would have RETAINED the numbers of KDF players we had at launch, (back when Quo'Nos had far more than ten instances), instead of losing them completely. As we did. Most of the KDF fans just left and do not even play Fed.
Nevertheless, my thoughts more or less reflect the points Roach has made through the thread. Still, my final thoughts will always rest on the implications of PvP, as what is good for PvP is ultimately good for the survival of the game.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
The Phase shift cloak was a secret exparment that starfleet command started, while violating sevral treaties. That is why Picard made sure to decloak the Enterprise where the Romulans could see them, so Starfleet would have to answer for it.
ef the old canon ?
There wouldn't be Trek without the old canon.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
And yet look at the mission design. The DOFF missions are an assortment of Blackmail, Assassinate, Pilliage Farming Colony, Raid Unarmed Freighter, Sell Prisoners To Slavers, on and on and on. The few story missions are little better, where even when you do the right thing the dialogue reminds you that you're doing it for selfish, violent, or devious reasons. My favorite eps of TNG usually had Duras or Gowron in them, because I found Klingon politics fascinating, but this game doesn't have those Klingons. These Klingons are, at best, TOS Klingons, orcs in space. Moral relativism only goes so far.
according to what ive read in game, the Federation considers the Treaty of Algeron to be defunct ever since the loss of Romulus, because the romulan government no longer existed. the current romulan government is considered to be an entirely new political entity. (and that was basically the federation response when diplomatically confronted about the blatantly cloaking ships)
and with that being said, it could be argued that it is illogical for every federation ship to Not have cloak. it allows you to avoid a fight just as easily as start one. its easy to make easy to install and significantly increases the ship, and by extension crew, survival rate. there is no logical reason for the federation not to embrace cloaking tech.
that being said, fed has enough cloak for now in my opinion. if new stuff is made for the feds, it should be something unique that further defines the faction, not just another klingon rip off. maybe more transwarp or better slipstream, something resulting from the fruits of all that science the federation does instead of killing people.
Which is why fans like myself are asking for a complete and better KDF faction, so we do not stay Orks in space but have some sense of the greatness of teh KDF and Pve content to go with it.
Of course most times that subject comes up in the forums, its barked down by some feds whom seem to only want the orks in space to fight as they (feds) play basically Earth Warmonger and opportunistic Politician. Niether faction is as it should be represented.
This thread though is not about the feds failing to live to the ideals of the UFP or the KDF failing to move above the brutality of being space orks, but is about Cloaking and the BoP possibly being sold out from under the KDF to make a quick buck. Nothing more.
R.I.P
And yet all these things are subject to your personal outlook. The Klingon Empire has the smallest fraction of the Federation's resources, and its only means of self-sustainability is its ability to make use of their massive military might to conquer surrounding territories and assimilate their resources. They weren't always like that. The loss of the Tal'Ihnor Gates, and later Praxis, they've suffered tremendously. What does a fiercely independent warrior society do at that point to maintain their way of life?
They find new resources, even if they must take it by force.
You apply your democratic ideology (a flawed one at that, as you aren't even open-minded to the cultures of others in which a democratic society exists to honor) to an ideology that doesn't at all incorporate it. It simply doesn't apply.
When you lose all means of self-sustainability as a society that would rather die than be assimilated into the culture of someone else's society (a mindset similar to the USA, for instance - the idea of surrendering our sovereignty to another nation is asinine), yet are left with an incredibly powerful army and navy made up of fiercely loyal and ferociously independent warriors, what would you do?
If you say you would seek outside help through peaceful negotiation, you'd probably be assassinated (and rightfully so).
There is no such thing as a "bad guy" race, a "bad guy" country, etc. Just different. The exception stands as the Borg, but even then, they aren't. Their collective hive mind is, the facility that controls them.
Replace that collective hive mind with Jesus and suddenly you'd have a very different Borg.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Sadly I think that it no longer about the IP or keeping the factions unique. It is about selling stuff through the store.
Where are the FE's? Where is the ongoing content? You can't even buy content in the cash shop. It has turned into nothing but a cash grab. The least amount of resources spent for the most money gained.
And the easiest thing to do is cannibalize (rather that complete or finish) the half done faction to put onto the store.
======================================
Dazed and confused at what goes on in STO since Feb 2010
And if they slaughter a bunch of other cultures, commit a little genocide and enslavement here and there, its okay for them because its their culture and we shouldn't judge? No, there comes a point where you need to be willing to say something is flat out wrong, because otherwise that argument can be used (and has been used) to justify anything.
I'd love to be able to buy a cross faction starship or a newer klingon ship.
and the federation does not do this?
how many refugees have I rescued from Starfleet aggression? how much genocide dies Starfleet tolerate in the name of survival?
and the answer is to steal cloaking technology from the Romulans or the Klingons? to further marginalize others in the name of Starfleet amusement?
yes, the answer for all the crimes of the Klingon Empire is writing off the Klingons, for the greater glory of your Starfleet.
yes, steal the phased cloak, like Picard should have done, correct? that is the true face of Starfleet... a mirror for the ork.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Spoken like someone truly ignorant to the Klingon society and general trek story.
"Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
Reginamala.....I will give you a quote from this fine gentleman I use as my sig-avatar.
- "Did you guys ever even watch the show?"
Serioulsy.. it is very apparent that you have not watched hardly any Star Trek. Especially anything pertaining to Klingons, since you know next to nothing about them. So far, seemingly everything you have ignorantly assumed about Klingon culture and way of life you have gotten off of Fed QQ threads.
If you don't know what you are talking about, don't go throwing your opinion around and thrusting it into everyone's face. It makes you look ignorant. Secondly, before you start trying to take up arms and defend some obscure standpoint, make sure you are actually helping it instead of doing it a further disservice with your blatant ignorance. Unless, of course, you are really a Klingon trying to make Feds look like complete idiots... which is still wrong and not needed, and doesn't help anyone.
Yeah, that's right.
I was writing about my impressions of the Klingon faction as based on the dialogue and mission descriptions for the story and doff assignments as written in the game. Yes they are quite different in other sources, as Roach pointed out above, but thats not whats in the game. But then I let myself get caught up and sidetracked on my opinions on the failings of moral relativism, which is seperate and only tangentially relevant thing. As to the show viewings, TNG several times and about a third each of DS9 and Enterprise (and a bit of Voyager but couldn't stand it), so not as much as some but not "ignorant."
The original point I was trying to make (despite not even wanting a Fed BoP, just for adding an alternate point of view to the discussion), and apparently failing miserably at, was that the Klingons as they are now are not a full faction and likely never will be, and so the 'we are unique and special' argument does not stand up very well. That is obviously just my opinion, but I was under the impression that is what this sort of forum was for, everyone states their opinions and we go back and forth on the merits and weaknesses of each opinion offered. Clearly I haven't made my arguments very well (sidetracking myself doesn't help), nor have I seen anything to make me change my own view much, and/or I misjudged the purpose of this thread to begin with.
Whatever the case may be, enjoy your thread.
Do you really think having more missions would somehow fix that? What makes anyone think Cryptc would give the KDF 25 more missions that weren't more of the same? Read the Doff assignments the KDF has, its clear Cryptic views them as the bad guys. By the same token that the KDF are Orcs in Space, Starfleet are mostly lawful stupid (Its a reference to bad Paladin or other "good people" characterization in RPGs if anyone didn't get it). Most of my characters are Feds and I hate my faction being lawful stupid.
Seriously, its like DS9 never happened to inject just a little depth to Star Trek!
P.S. My memory is a bit hazy on the episode, but if Picard really did decloak just to stand on his high horse and get in the way of people trying to defend the federation he would be considered a traitor in spirit if not in law, and removed from command and starfleet as soon as possible. But alas... main character plot armor.
Well, someone who can't stand Voyager can't be all bad:)
I play both factions with an equal number of of characters on either "side" of the coin. I'm a sucker for an underdog so my sympathies and by extension my loyalties are with the KDF.
I agree that "uniqueness" of one faction is not a valid arguement whether made on the part of a whole or incomplete faction. I would however argue that the preservation of the intellectual property as a whole is justified by that same argument.
If the core concepts of the franchise are persistently discarded for whatever reason over the course of time it will eventually cease to be Star Trek. We all have different definitions of when we reach that point depending on our backgrounds; But we all have a threshold.
I remember when TNG was just getting rdy to launch. Every news channel was talking about Worf and how Klingons were going to be our friends now and how that reflected upon real life with the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Worf was a transcending character, he more than any other Klingon defined what it means to be a Klingon. Anyone familar with bushido, the way of the warrior, will see many of the same facets. Worf possessed great honor and courage, he also had a big heart. He showed us how much Klingons and Humans had in common. I cannot give Micheal Dorn enough credit for his role.
Klingons will never, ever be orks in space-atleast to me. STO has wrongly tarnished their heritage. I can understand why they chose Klingons to be the other faction, its written on the wall that Klingons are the runaway favorite non-fed faction. The reason why it didn't work is you can't undo everything we saw and learned in TNG and DS9.
Klingons are too noble, too awesome, to be the sterotype villian.
And K'Valk was cool. He was all about that ramming speed. He didn't sell out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulan
This is important to know because we don't know just how much damage the supernova caused. They lost the Capital System and sure that would put things into a tailspin but then again their culture is used to dealing with all manner of government take overs. If they only lost a couple of systems then there are still billions and billions of Romulans left after the disaster.
Playing through the Romulan arcs in the FE missions I didn't get the feeling that they were affected quite that much by the events. A little fighting to figure out who is in charge and moving the capital to a new star system and then it's business as usual.
Getting back to the Treaty of Algeron, sure the government has changed hands again but no matter who is running the show the citizens of the RSE are still the same people they were before the supernova. Whether the treaty is active or not the people of the RSE will remember that the Federation dumped the treaty with them the first chance they had. If the Federation have any hope of someday becoming friends with the RSE then the Federation need to honor all Treaties between them. Otherwise it could leave hostilities that resulted in open warfare. This is why I think the Federation should not be using any cloaking technology.
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Its not carriers that define the KDF...
Its not BOPs that define the KDF...
Its being an unfinished faction that defines the KDF.
And don't worry, Feds are NEVER going to take that away from you.
To Borgly Go Webcomic - Season 1, Season 2, Season 3
Dei schware Pheisa Launzn trifft'n Robotazombiewiarfl und schlitzt eam fui auf. 50.000 Schodn, oida.
Well by the rate things are going, and according to this, we get more "unique" every day.
Too bad it is at the loss of novel play mechanics.
Alpha-KDF
Does that somehow compensate for the loss of interesting play mechanics that could possibly help entice players to at least try KDF play?
Want cloaking ships? Play Fed
Want universal BO slots? Play Fed
Want to captain a carrier? Play Fed
Want a battlecloak? Just wait and play Fed
But hey the KDF has Alpha and nine other unique missions.
Oh wait the Feds have over fifty.
The writing was on the wall with ground play where Fed and KDF play is mechanically identical.
Considered that it was a p2p game in the past, most other games have more missions for level 1-10 then sto has in its entirely.
Consideration to the fact that all FEs are written from a Fed POV and then lightly rewritten for KDF I would say no.
My how clever you are. I most certainly will not be able to offer a counterpoint to such awesome logic. Alas I will attempt to avail myself.
My point was that once upon a time novel game mechanics were a draw to the KDF faction.
Episodes of Star Trek only reinforce this notion. Watch Balance of Terror and tell me that cloaking did not add to the Romulan mystique.
Mayhaps it is you who should watch more Star Trek?
Edited to add: Loaded questions that attempt to lead are fun.
R.I.P