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how to counter tb danube carrier/akira spam?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2012 in PvP Gameplay
Lately ive seen more and more pet spam especially since the release of danubes with the akira and the cat carriers in pvp and i wondered how do i not lose my bonus defense and keep myself maneuvrable. i already use 2x omega 1 and still thats 50% of the time match totally perma-tractored!

What is there to be done about this? any tips would be much appreciated.

last time i was in match i asked them if they reeally needed all that tb spam then to win nd still said gg y?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Everyone should use FAW and Scramble Sensors on pets if I'm to seriously take the advice of some around here. Can't fit Gravity Well on an Escort, can we? Spam has changed since the days when CSV and Warp Plasma were good enough to help level the playing field. The old standby powers still work to a degree but most rely on some level of movement which pets on both sides are good at denying you.

    Refusing to engage or burning everything you have to escape, in between chroniton procs, seems most effective. You tell me how much fun that is. The poor pets won't have anything to play with! Someone has to speak for the pets!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    It's bad now, but I can't way to see how bad it gets once flight deck doffs are more common fed side.

    A sci with grav well seems to work alright, but tbh faw only hits so many and with how spammable pets are I'm not sure it's up to the task anymore.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    yesterday before i left i dropped my rsp and tss1 for a aux2ID1 and PH1 to go with my 2 omega1's

    i already run an evasives nonstop anywho.

    i mean, its not like these guys are doing any kind of spike damage (unless they are a tac captain rocking BO2!) (lol)

    somehow danoobs still tractored me.

    i may spec into inertial dampners (?) if thats the counter...i cant remember right now.....

    plus go back to 2 copies or csv.....idunno. i hate pet spam

    have fun kill danoobs

    horizon
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    SteveHale wrote: »
    Refusing to engage or burning everything you have to escape, in between chroniton procs, seems most effective. You tell me how much fun that is. The poor pets won't have anything to play with! Someone has to speak for the pets!

    We need an STO PETA!

    I was running 2x CSV on my excel, it was clearing pets pretty well even adv runabouts.

    EWP works, not that well against the more robust pets (runabouts, frigates, etc) but against the fighters it does a pretty solid job. It also works best when used proactively, EWP bomb the carrier and anything it launches is stuck ineffectually in the EWP. This is almost the opposite of how alot of people are using it right now where its "oh noes I'm tractored, quickly EWP!" and they expect it to do something.

    PDS p2w console from the thunderchild. It pwns every pet/mine/big torp within 5k of you. Yeah it has a 3min CD but if you run it like some premades run AMS, you just heavily shutdown any spam based team. Just make sure to coordinate an order of activation for your team.

    The intercept command on other carriers... yes spam to counter spam, hooray awesome circle of logic! Peregrines, ToDuj, and Stalkers all make pretty solid interceptors. The frigates from the KDF namely the BoP wtfpwn opposing fighters.

    GW, it works, most fighters can't escape even a GW1, with the doff a team could get pretty spamy with GW which pretty much just gobbles up pets.

    Using the above in combination. Dropping GW on a carrier, then CSV'ing into that grouping of stuff. PDS'ing a groups pets then EWP'ing all over them so there redeploys fail. These sorts of things can be handled by a single ship and can realistically negate the pets of multiple ships.

    Theres also FAW, Spread, and afew other things you can do aswell, but generally I think the ones above tend to work better for massive spam.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    shelev wrote:
    We need an STO PETA!

    I was running 2x CSV on my excel, it was clearing pets pretty well even adv runabouts.

    EWP works, not that well against the more robust pets (runabouts, frigates, etc) but against the fighters it does a pretty solid job. It also works best when used proactively, EWP bomb the carrier and anything it launches is stuck ineffectually in the EWP. This is almost the opposite of how alot of people are using it right now where its "oh noes I'm tractored, quickly EWP!" and they expect it to do something.

    PDS p2w console from the thunderchild. It pwns every pet/mine/big torp within 5k of you. Yeah it has a 3min CD but if you run it like some premades run AMS, you just heavily shutdown any spam based team. Just make sure to coordinate an order of activation for your team.

    The intercept command on other carriers... yes spam to counter spam, hooray awesome circle of logic! Peregrines, ToDuj, and Stalkers all make pretty solid interceptors. The frigates from the KDF namely the BoP wtfpwn opposing fighters.

    GW, it works, most fighters can't escape even a GW1, with the doff a team could get pretty spamy with GW which pretty much just gobbles up pets.

    Using the above in combination. Dropping GW on a carrier, then CSV'ing into that grouping of stuff. PDS'ing a groups pets then EWP'ing all over them so there redeploys fail. These sorts of things can be handled by a single ship and can realistically negate the pets of multiple ships.

    Theres also FAW, Spread, and afew other things you can do aswell, but generally I think the ones above tend to work better for massive spam.

    Then i suppose i need 7 turrets + scattered in order to shoot all the danubes flying above me, under me, left of me and right of me etc? :p

    hehehe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    torpedo spread any good for this? i hate the fact I am even considering speccing into torps just to kill these damn crappy pets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Then i suppose i need 7 turrets + scattered in order to shoot all the danubes flying above me, under me, left of me and right of me etc? :p

    hehehe

    4 single cannons + 3 turrets, please lets be realistic. ;)

    4 turrets on the rear of my excel where able to pop some runabouts, obviously my forward arc did better but the turrets the few times I got locked down or was just flying like a moron got the job done.

    If you are literally surrounded by runabouts, fall back to PDS console, TBR, or GW something close to you.

    That said runabouts (and all other single or double launch hangars) could stand to lose some hull from what they have right now. Runabouts (adv) are at like 16k or so hull which is pretty crazy when you think about it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I lost reputation points for using TBR:(.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    shelev wrote:
    4 single cannons + 3 turrets, please lets be realistic. ;)

    4 turrets on the rear of my excel where able to pop some runabouts, obviously my forward arc did better but the turrets the few times I got locked down or was just flying like a moron got the job done.

    If you are literally surrounded by runabouts, fall back to PDS console, TBR, or GW something close to you.

    That said runabouts (and all other single or double launch hangars) could stand to lose some hull from what they have right now. Runabouts (adv) are at like 16k or so hull which is pretty crazy when you think about it.

    so... what about killing my real non npc targets? Single cannons + turrets and scattered? That will be pwny!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Watch out for Sarah Palin and her 2x TBR tac Karfi. But really, I keep finding more and more matches where all I see is a screen full of pets.
    -
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Unless you're on a team w/more than 1 person using TBR, I don't see TBR being effective.

    1. TBR has a max target limit. (Nothing more annoying than using TBR and not hitting the pet TBing you b/c all the other TRIBBLE around.)

    2. Pets tend to go flying off meaning they may survive and fly back.

    3. Doffs make pet deployment rates a joke.

    Still haven't tried Scramble Sensors out, but I do have a question. Did the cloak reveal ever get fixed, for example when SS a Fed would reveal KDF allies cloaked? If not Scramlbe Sensors could be a non-starter. If it has been fixed, I'd be willing to try it out w/my brel if for no other reason than to turn the various debuff spam back on the carriers. I'm kinda surprised w/all the AMS/SS that Fed PuGs had been using this hasn't come up in FvF.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I haven't noticed the cloak reveal issue, but Scramble isn't as common as it once was either so that could be why. It does still steal Evasives though and that is irritating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Iamid wrote:
    Unless you're on a team w/more than 1 person using TBR, I don't see TBR being effective.

    1. TBR has a max target limit. (Nothing more annoying than using TBR and not hitting the pet TBing you b/c all the other TRIBBLE around.)

    2. Pets tend to go flying off meaning they may survive and fly back.

    3. Doffs make pet deployment rates a joke.

    Still haven't tried Scramble Sensors out, but I do have a question. Did the cloak reveal ever get fixed, for example when SS a Fed would reveal KDF allies cloaked? If not Scramlbe Sensors could be a non-starter. If it has been fixed, I'd be willing to try it out w/my brel if for no other reason than to turn the various debuff spam back on the carriers. I'm kinda surprised w/all the AMS/SS that Fed PuGs had been using this hasn't come up in FvF.

    TBR and SS are both sub-optimal choices (when your intent is to counter pets).

    TBR will likely NOT kill stronger pets (runabouts, frigates, etc) unless it hits them multiple times.
    TBR can glitch the system about no simultaneous activation of abilities such as tractor beam, sometimes (rarely) you can TBR some runabouts only to have them come swarming back and drop multiple TB's.

    If you get scrambled deploy more pets, those fresh pets arn't scrambled, profit?
    Also scrambled pets are just as likely to start popping themselves/eachother and random TRIBBLE as they are to TB a friendly player.
    Scramble helps but it would take a pretty coordinated SS effort to do it effectively, sure you can run SS1 in a lt slot, but for most things that run SS2 or so why not just run GW1 instead? Besides helping with the pets its also snatches up the redeployed pets unless the carrier runs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Pets are fine, quit trying to change everything to suit your desires MT.
    It's f2p there's nothing you can do or say that's going to make things better so just suck it up.




    /serious mode on: Nothing. And it's only going to get worse once the Flight Deck Doffs hit fedside. Best bet is to just hose the screen down in warp plasma, gravity wells, TBR, Torp Spreads, and FAW and hope for the best.

    And by hose, I mean literally hose. The screen should be purple, green, and white blue by the time you and your team are finished. Every ship needs the above skills, at least 2 of the 3 to even have a chance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Add Polarize Hull to your list of debuff countering powers? Then die to whatever power you lost a counter for.

    I don't really understand why the most annoying pets lately have also been the toughest. (See also, tachyon drones.)

    Like, power siphons are annoying and powerful, but they have all the hitpoints of a box of tissue papers. They die to angry glares. So there was some balance there, at least.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Target Aux and VM the carrier too?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I carry an extra boff with torp spread 3 plus scatter volley 3 on my sci scort. If the spam is effecting my team that much ill disengage my BO3 and swap my dbb for a plasma torp. Doesnt do quite the same dps but if my team isnt harrassed as much we'll fight better anyway. Then fly around and watch all the pets burn!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    SteveHale wrote: »
    I lost reputation points for using TBR:(.

    Same here, I think this is the only viable option tho.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Lately ive seen more and more pet spam especially since the release of danubes with the akira and the cat carriers in pvp and i wondered how do i not lose my bonus defense and keep myself maneuvrable. i already use 2x omega 1 and still thats 50% of the time match totally perma-tractored!

    What is there to be done about this? any tips would be much appreciated.

    last time i was in match i asked them if they reeally needed all that tb spam then to win nd still said gg y?

    The tractors can be countered within reason, I really think that the problem is two-fold though. First being that there is no counter to the Chroniton proc, and the other being that Danubes (for some crazy reason) have 18,000 health compared to under 4k for every other deployable on the Fed side.

    I get that the Federation needed a high hull parallel to the KDF BoPs and Frigates but it should have been on the Delta Flyers or Class 10s and not the Danubes. If the Danubes had lower health then they could simply be controlled through anti-spam measures, but since they have high health they really become a mounting issue.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Does PSW break you free of the Danube TB?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    RedRicky wrote: »
    Does PSW break you free of the Danube TB?

    If it hits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Cpt_Duck wrote:
    torpedo spread any good for this? i hate the fact I am even considering speccing into torps just to kill these damn crappy pets.


    I'm specced into torps duck and I do ok. They just respawn soooo darn fast you can run an all aoe build and never be done. Serious. I have one build with two each of scatter volley, fire at will, and torpedo spread plus both point defense consoles. another wessel just runs two scatter volley and two torpedo spread. And that's fed side. KDF I have an all aoe loadout for my Borta as well as torpedo aoe for my Gorn ship. And I still get overwhelmed by pet spam.

    Great for stf's though! Getting kinda hard to tell if your in a cap and hold or infected.

    As far as the Bird of Prey goes teh Marmot H.O.D. mocks pet spam. MOCKS!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Thissler wrote:
    As far as the Bird of Prey goes teh Marmot H.O.D. mocks pet spam. MOCKS!!

    It does so by running away...

    Torp Spread is limited by a hard target cap based on rank. 5 at max, an Atrox can launch 4 runabouts instantly from two hangars, having a total of 8 out there.
    Then you have stuff like actual fighters (peregrins, toduj, interceptors, stalkers etc) which launch in 3's with a single deploy from both hangars popping out 6 targets.

    Ideally your AoE choices for dealing with pets need to not be target capped (this is why GW, EWP, and even FAW/CSV are good). As they can/will effect more pets that said spread will oneshot most non-durable pets so there is that for it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    best way to counter pet spam is with warp core explosions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    maicake716 wrote:
    best way to counter pet spam is with warp core explosions.

    Its like catnip to them, stop exploiting there weakness D:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    what about tacticaly buffed feedback pulse?

    that does still happen right?

    do pets do enough damage to kill themselves?

    it lasts for 15 sec, and if all the pets are on you maybe....through spec'ing into threat control?

    idunno, trying to think outside the box a little here....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    what about tacticaly buffed feedback pulse?

    that does still happen right?

    do pets do enough damage to kill themselves?

    it lasts for 15 sec, and if all the pets are on you maybe....through spec'ing into threat control?

    idunno, trying to think outside the box a little here....

    The danubes have 18,000 health and do very little damage, and therein lies the problem as they're not easily dispatched like KDF siphon pods; as I said on the previous page the problems are the Chroniton proc and the fact that the danube has such insanely high health.

    Make the Chroniton proc counterable and reduce the health of the Danube and the problem will be reduced by quite a bit...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    what about tacticaly buffed feedback pulse?

    that does still happen right?

    do pets do enough damage to kill themselves?

    it lasts for 15 sec, and if all the pets are on you maybe....through spec'ing into threat control?

    idunno, trying to think outside the box a little here....

    Not really, BoPs might, Peregrines/ToDuj probably could. Delta's and Runabouts could probably tank it like a champ. Karfi Frigates just spam torps/mines and circle things ineffectually most of the time, so probably not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    shelev wrote:
    It does so by running away...

    Torp Spread is limited by a hard target cap based on rank. 5 at max, an Atrox can launch 4 runabouts instantly from two hangars, having a total of 8 out there.
    Then you have stuff like actual fighters (peregrins, toduj, interceptors, stalkers etc) which launch in 3's with a single deploy from both hangars popping out 6 targets.

    Ideally your AoE choices for dealing with pets need to not be target capped (this is why GW, EWP, and even FAW/CSV are good). As they can/will effect more pets that said spread will oneshot most non-durable pets so there is that for it.

    Theres the kick in the nuts. It used to be that way sort of because of balance passes that were needed it now makes them jokes for all the spam cryptic introduced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    The Kar'fi phase shift could let you fly past the pets to hit the carrier. You'd have to hit it before the TBs got you.

    The subspace jumper could get you past the pets.
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