I am a big escort guy. On the FED side I have all of them, with the exception of the MVAE and on the Klingon side I have all the raiders, raptors, and of course my beloved Guramba.
I am very excited about the new T5 Akira/Armitage. Now most of my escorts are all set up in pretty similar ways, I want to try something different with this new ship. In the description the Armitage is a carrier/gunship boat and uses a new photon torpedo point defense system, this is what I want to take advantage of.
I want to set the ship up as a photon torp boat and will mainly be used to STF. The idea of this build will be to strip the shields as fast as I can and than hurl as many photons as possible. To accomplish this I will be using tetryon weapons and the omega set tetryon glider skill. My build will be as follows.
Fore weapons- 2 Photon torpedo launchers mk xii [borg], 2 Dual tetryon cannons mk xii [borg]
Aft weapons- 3 tetryon turrets mk xii [borg]
Deflector- Positron deflector array mk xii [flwc] [shds] [ins]
Impulse- Omega force hyper impulse engines mk xii
Shield- Omega force shield array mk xii
Eng consoles- Photon point defense console, rule 62 multipurpose combat console (+11% torp dmg, +46% pwr transfer, +17 flwc), Electorceramic hull plating mk xi
Science consoles- 2 Field generators mk xi
Tactical consoles- 3 Photon Detonation Assembly mk xi, 1 Tetryon Pulse Generator mk xi
Hangar bay- Advanced Delta Flyers
Devices- Shields battery, Subspace field modulator
Doff layout- 3 Projectile weapons officer, 2 Shield distribution officer
Never tried a torpedo build before, I am anxcious to see how this works with the new ship. Don't know how viable it would be for PVP and everything is subject to change. Any advice is welcome.
Because of the carrier aspect, this might work quite well. If you have an Atrox, you might consider some Stalkers to help bring those shields. down for your torps.
Has there been any confirmation whether other consoles that boost torpedo dmg will effect the Photon Point Defense?
it is highly likely that the Photon Point Defense will function in a way that is very similar if not identical to that of the already existent Point Defense Console with the exception of doing Kinetic Damage instead of Phaser Damage. What this means is that it is highly likely that it will not gain any advantages from the Torpedo Damage Boosting Console or the Kinetic Damage Boosting Console.
Which if this is the case, I have to wonder whether people will still insist on turning the Armitage into a Torpedo Boat, or if it will eventually evolve into the standard role of most Escorts (Cannon Boats)?
I'm considerign a smilar build, except instead of the cannons, I plan on using the Dual Beam Arrays from "The Missing Link" with 3 Target Shields Subsytem I.
*EDIT*: And on a side note, if you want massive shield draining, you could consider the Jem'Hadar deflector. It adds +24 to flow capacitors.
hmmm, it appears you are correct. You have my apologies. Still doesn't change the fact that the wiki could do with an update to include this fact.
No problem. Either way I know the multi point defense system is great on the peregrine fighter for the vault. Time to see if a shuttle can fire that many torps to the same effect.
Will TS work with cannons? My only experience with subsystem targeting is with Science ships, where on an all single cannon, turret and torp build it's usually been recommended to add a dual beam array for SST purposes.The Wiki mentions it only working with beam weapons... wazzup? Would make the build a lot nicer being able to stick with all cannons. Can anyone confirm that TS works with cannons?
Will TS work with cannons? My only experience with subsystem targeting is with Science ships, where on an all single cannon, turret and torp build it's usually been recommended to add a dual beam array for SST purposes.The Wiki mentions it only working with beam weapons... wazzup? Would make the build a lot nicer being able to stick with all cannons. Can anyone confirm that TS works with cannons?
Like mentioned earlier the advanced stalkers will not equip onto the Armitage. I am a little disappointed about that. I have been using the advanced Delta flyers and am happy with them. The hanger bay is a huge advantage to the ship no matter how you set it up.
The photon consoles do increase the damage for the torpedo point defense system. I had hoped the recharge time would be 2 mins, but it ended up being 3 mins like it's phaser counter part. If shields are up on your targets the damage seems to be negligible and is best used to overwhelm a single target when shields drop.
I ended up with a little different Boff layout. Been trying to test today, but allot of people are flooding the pve matches and it has been hard trying to gauge everything. I can spit out allot of photons with my setup, dps seems to be on par with a basic escort cannon build. Will have to wait for STF's for tomorrow to see how well it truly works.
As a cosmetic side note, I am quite fond of the Armitage setup with a Zephyr hull. It looks like an updated Miranda. http://i50.tinypic.com/ms11lh.png
Given that target shields doesn't work with cannons, could you share your updated Boff layout? Still looking for ideas...
Thanks.
sorry, by "TS" I never meant Target Shields, but rather Torpedo Spread.
*updated original post to my current boff layout
*switched out my dual heavy's for 2 dual cannons. I am thinking tetryon glider gives a negative shield bonus per pulse and dual cannons fire more pulses per volley. If anyone could confirm this it would be appreciated.
Neat, I was thinking of a similar build so would love to know how it goes. A comment and two questions though. First, I saw some math Cygone posted elsewhere (too lazy to hunt it down at the moment) that said that for some reason 3 torp doffs proc'ed only an insignificant amount often than running just 2, so that could free up another officer slot for you. I haven't tested it myself though and I only have 2 purples anyways, but they seem to keep up a pretty steady stream on my one-tube fleet escort.
My first question is, why not using the Omega deflector for the targeting bonus?
Second question is, does the torpedo console get any kind of accuracy or small-craft bonus the way the Thunderchild's console does? I can't find stats for that turret anywhere and I can't buy the ship yet to find out the hard way.
Neat, I was thinking of a similar build so would love to know how it goes. A comment and two questions though. First, I saw some math Cygone posted elsewhere (too lazy to hunt it down at the moment) that said that for some reason 3 torp doffs proc'ed only an insignificant amount often than running just 2, so that could free up another officer slot for you. I haven't tested it myself though and I only have 2 purples anyways, but they seem to keep up a pretty steady stream on my one-tube fleet escort.
Didn't know about a diminishing return from the projectile officers, definitely something I will have to look into. I would have no idea how to work the math on that to figure it for myself.
The projectile doffs are an important part of the build. I am able to work the dps math and it shows that you are better off using 4 energy weapon consoles instead of the torpedo consoles, no matter what the setup. The only way I can make up the difference is by having my projectile doffs give me a higher rate of torpedo fire.
My first question is, why not using the Omega deflector for the targeting bonus?
The main reason I am not using the Omega deflector is because it lacks a flow capacitor skill to help with the tetryon glider. I don't want to have to waste a sci console spot on a flow capacitor, so I want the deflector to have it. The tachyon deflector gives the best flow capacitor bonus, but because I have the rule 62 console, which gives a small flwc bonus, I can use it with a positron deflector array, which has more useful powers I think. Right now I am around -39 shields per pulse, if I just would use the omega deflector and and the rule 62 console I am around -21. Is the bonus targeting and graviton anchor worth the tradeoff? For a STF I am thinking these skills are less important. But everything is still debatable.
Second question is, does the torpedo console get any kind of accuracy or small-craft bonus the way the Thunderchild's console does? I can't find stats for that turret anywhere and I can't buy the ship yet to find out the hard way.
Nothing from the in game information on the photon defense console says it has any kind of bonus acc/dmg to different types of ships.
The main reason I am not using the Omega deflector is because it lacks a flow capacitor skill to help with the tetryon glider.
Have you ever considered the Jem'Hadar deflector? I think it may add even more to Flow Capacitors than yours does (unless I've misread the numbers, in which case: apologies).
Didn't know about a diminishing return from the projectile officers, definitely something I will have to look into. I would have no idea how to work the math on that to figure it for myself.
Unless I'm mistaken, it'd be somethign like this:
For 1 doffs the chance nothing happens is 0.8 (0.2 chance something happens).
For 2 doffs the chance nothing happens is 0.8*0.8=0.640 (0.36 chance something happens).
For 3 doffs the chance nothing happens is 0.8*0.8*0.8=0.512 (0.488 chance somethign happens).
I'm not entirely sure it works this way, as chance calculations aren't my strong point, but it's bound to be something like that. Basically what it means is that the number of favourable outcomes increases less as more doffs are added.
Didn't know about a diminishing return from the projectile officers, definitely something I will have to look into. I would have no idea how to work the math on that to figure it for myself.
The projectile doffs are an important part of the build. I am able to work the dps math and it shows that you are better off using 4 energy weapon consoles instead of the torpedo consoles, no matter what the setup. The only way I can make up the difference is by having my projectile doffs give me a higher rate of torpedo fire.
Optimum weapon console loadout will depend on your skillpoints, achievable torp-per-minute rate (this is hard capped at just under 1 torp every 2 seconds before skills) and if you're firing on Hull or not, although it's worth noting that Photon Consoles will only buff the Kinetic (not [borg] ) component of your shots.
In my own Nebula testing, 1 Disruptor console + 1 Photon console was my optimum loadout; but going for 3 Disruptor + 1 Photon ended up working better on my Guramba due to the Javelin, the extra Fore DHC and the KHG equipment's 2-piece set bonus.
Have you ever considered the Jem'Hadar deflector? I think it may add even more to Flow Capacitors than yours does (unless I've misread the numbers, in which case: apologies).
When I initially tested my tetryon glider skills I had my ship power levels set wrong. I will mention my toon has 6 lvls in his flow capacitor skills. I retested with the correct power setting on three different deflectors and here is the result with weapon pwr setting at 121.
When I add the rule 62 console it gives and extra -2 shield drain to each setup. Because of the close results I will be using the Omega deflector, unless something better is found.
Optimum weapon console loadout will depend on your skillpoints, achievable torp-per-minute rate (this is hard capped at just under 1 torp every 2 seconds before skills) and if you're firing on Hull or not, although it's worth noting that Photon Consoles will only buff the Kinetic (not [borg] ) component of your shots.
In my own Nebula testing, 1 Disruptor console + 1 Photon console was my optimum loadout; but going for 3 Disruptor + 1 Photon ended up working better on my Guramba due to the Javelin, the extra Fore DHC and the KHG equipment's 2-piece set bonus.
..also, no Borg Console in your OP?
Thanks for the link, I will have to read through everything.
I am not using a borg console atm because I don't know where I would put it. My first choice would be to take the electroceramic hull plating off and put it there or lose the photon defense console, since my build is kinda based around this console I'm holding off on that route.
Did do my first STF run and the ship performed well. There is allot of micro managing involved using the carrier skills in conjunction with the normal escort skills. Hot keys make all the difference.
Thanks for the link, I will have to read through everything.
I am not using a borg console atm because I don't know where I would put it. My first choice would be to take the electroceramic hull plating off and put it there or lose the photon defense console, since my build is kinda based around this console I'm holding off on that route.
Did do my first STF run and the ship performed well. There is allot of micro managing involved using the carrier skills in conjunction with the normal escort skills. Hot keys make all the difference.
No worries, and I'd drop the 2nd Field Generator Console: More often than not, my Fleet Escort doesn't need to use any of them, and the Armitage is hardier than a FE with the ability to slot EPTS2/3 and still take Aux2SIF. The Electroceramic strikes me as a bit superfluous too - generally if my FE is going to die, it'll be from torpedo hits on the hull, where a Field Generator and an Electroceramic Armor won't help me, but a Monotanium Alloy Console can make a good bit of difference. Especially with no Borg 2-Piece Set bonus.
I'd suggest you may want to re-examine your assumptions about Tetryon Glider's effectiveness though. In theory there's a lot of synergy to stack it and Tetryons, but in practice I've found that the 5% Recharge bonus from the MACO set works out better, as having your Tac Abilities up more regularly means higher damage, which beats out the small always-on shield drain. Ditto for Tetryon Weaponry versus Disruptors - the extra 10% damage from Disruptors tends to beat Tetryon's small drain potential for reducing the amount of time you spend killing an enemy, even with shields up.
I gave a similar build a go. Major diffenrces were phasers instead of tetryons for energy weapon and my quad phaser cannons.. I also thru a tcd launcher in place of one of the turrets in back (Denatra did not like it to much when I flipped a b... And she took one plus ts2 to her naked hull) . It was a lot of fun to try something different than the standard 3+1 weapon setup. I also ran d-fliers with runabouts on standby and both point defense mods.
Started a KA PuG run (not elite, I was paranoid the build was going to be FAIL). After the tac cube fell, I sprinted over to the right side for probe blocking. Yeah.. That god boring fast.. Posted up about 12k from the gate and didn't move for 4 or 5 waves. When I started on the generators (only one on the right side). Only lost two probes ( the kids distracted me if you were in the game with me, sorry for losing the opt for you) and dropped the gate about 20 to 30 seconds before the left side. (yes some else joined me)
Switched out to the runabouts for Denatra. With all tractors firing off between my one and my pets (not sure if anyone else was using holds, there were to many beams slamming her to tell). She couldn't cloak there were so many. I didn't get a chance to pharse the run, yeah I forgot...
When I initially tested my tetryon glider skills I had my ship power levels set wrong. I will mention my toon has 6 lvls in his flow capacitor skills. I retested with the correct power setting on three different deflectors and here is the result with weapon pwr setting at 121.
When I add the rule 62 console it gives and extra -2 shield drain to each setup. Because of the close results I will be using the Omega deflector, unless something better is found.
Just got a question if you're around while all these damage numbers are nice I'm kind of wondering what you're actual flow capacity skill is with all of this gear equipped. I'm considering messing with this myself, but I'm wondering how much flow cap skill I'd need to get in order to produce decent numbers in terms of bonus damage.
Comments
Just an FYI. Of course we'll see tomorrow if that changes.
Not yet. Looks like we won't find out till later today.
it is highly likely that the Photon Point Defense will function in a way that is very similar if not identical to that of the already existent Point Defense Console with the exception of doing Kinetic Damage instead of Phaser Damage. What this means is that it is highly likely that it will not gain any advantages from the Torpedo Damage Boosting Console or the Kinetic Damage Boosting Console.
Which if this is the case, I have to wonder whether people will still insist on turning the Armitage into a Torpedo Boat, or if it will eventually evolve into the standard role of most Escorts (Cannon Boats)?
The Current point defence system gets a boost from phaser relays. if it works the same way then it will.
*EDIT*: And on a side note, if you want massive shield draining, you could consider the Jem'Hadar deflector. It adds +24 to flow capacitors.
Then the Wiki needs to be updated because it doesn't mention anything about that on the wiki.
Have you ever just added the console and hovered over it to see what it can do and remove/add a phaser relay to see what happens to that number?
hmmm, it appears you are correct. You have my apologies. Still doesn't change the fact that the wiki could do with an update to include this fact.
No problem. Either way I know the multi point defense system is great on the peregrine fighter for the vault. Time to see if a shuttle can fire that many torps to the same effect.
It doesn't.
The photon consoles do increase the damage for the torpedo point defense system. I had hoped the recharge time would be 2 mins, but it ended up being 3 mins like it's phaser counter part. If shields are up on your targets the damage seems to be negligible and is best used to overwhelm a single target when shields drop.
I ended up with a little different Boff layout. Been trying to test today, but allot of people are flooding the pve matches and it has been hard trying to gauge everything. I can spit out allot of photons with my setup, dps seems to be on par with a basic escort cannon build. Will have to wait for STF's for tomorrow to see how well it truly works.
As a cosmetic side note, I am quite fond of the Armitage setup with a Zephyr hull. It looks like an updated Miranda.
http://i50.tinypic.com/ms11lh.png
Going to upgrade my fighters but can't decide between the delta flyer or advanced peregrines.
would love to use the stalkers but from what i've read they don't work.
Given that target shields doesn't work with cannons, could you share your updated Boff layout? Still looking for ideas...
Thanks.
*updated original post to my current boff layout
*switched out my dual heavy's for 2 dual cannons. I am thinking tetryon glider gives a negative shield bonus per pulse and dual cannons fire more pulses per volley. If anyone could confirm this it would be appreciated.
My first question is, why not using the Omega deflector for the targeting bonus?
Second question is, does the torpedo console get any kind of accuracy or small-craft bonus the way the Thunderchild's console does? I can't find stats for that turret anywhere and I can't buy the ship yet to find out the hard way.
Good to know.
Didn't know about a diminishing return from the projectile officers, definitely something I will have to look into. I would have no idea how to work the math on that to figure it for myself.
The projectile doffs are an important part of the build. I am able to work the dps math and it shows that you are better off using 4 energy weapon consoles instead of the torpedo consoles, no matter what the setup. The only way I can make up the difference is by having my projectile doffs give me a higher rate of torpedo fire.
The main reason I am not using the Omega deflector is because it lacks a flow capacitor skill to help with the tetryon glider. I don't want to have to waste a sci console spot on a flow capacitor, so I want the deflector to have it. The tachyon deflector gives the best flow capacitor bonus, but because I have the rule 62 console, which gives a small flwc bonus, I can use it with a positron deflector array, which has more useful powers I think. Right now I am around -39 shields per pulse, if I just would use the omega deflector and and the rule 62 console I am around -21. Is the bonus targeting and graviton anchor worth the tradeoff? For a STF I am thinking these skills are less important. But everything is still debatable.
Nothing from the in game information on the photon defense console says it has any kind of bonus acc/dmg to different types of ships.
Have you ever considered the Jem'Hadar deflector? I think it may add even more to Flow Capacitors than yours does (unless I've misread the numbers, in which case: apologies).
Unless I'm mistaken, it'd be somethign like this:
For 1 doffs the chance nothing happens is 0.8 (0.2 chance something happens).
For 2 doffs the chance nothing happens is 0.8*0.8=0.640 (0.36 chance something happens).
For 3 doffs the chance nothing happens is 0.8*0.8*0.8=0.512 (0.488 chance somethign happens).
I'm not entirely sure it works this way, as chance calculations aren't my strong point, but it's bound to be something like that. Basically what it means is that the number of favourable outcomes increases less as more doffs are added.
Tests on Projectile DOFFs
Math on 2 Photon Launchers plus an Energy Weapon versus 3 Photon Launchers
Optimum weapon console loadout will depend on your skillpoints, achievable torp-per-minute rate (this is hard capped at just under 1 torp every 2 seconds before skills) and if you're firing on Hull or not, although it's worth noting that Photon Consoles will only buff the Kinetic (not [borg] ) component of your shots.
In my own Nebula testing, 1 Disruptor console + 1 Photon console was my optimum loadout; but going for 3 Disruptor + 1 Photon ended up working better on my Guramba due to the Javelin, the extra Fore DHC and the KHG equipment's 2-piece set bonus.
..also, no Borg Console in your OP?
When I initially tested my tetryon glider skills I had my ship power levels set wrong. I will mention my toon has 6 lvls in his flow capacitor skills. I retested with the correct power setting on three different deflectors and here is the result with weapon pwr setting at 121.
Positron deflector array [flwc]: -36
Jem'Hadar deflector array: -38
Omega deflector array: -35
When I add the rule 62 console it gives and extra -2 shield drain to each setup. Because of the close results I will be using the Omega deflector, unless something better is found.
Thanks for the link, I will have to read through everything.
I am not using a borg console atm because I don't know where I would put it. My first choice would be to take the electroceramic hull plating off and put it there or lose the photon defense console, since my build is kinda based around this console I'm holding off on that route.
Did do my first STF run and the ship performed well. There is allot of micro managing involved using the carrier skills in conjunction with the normal escort skills. Hot keys make all the difference.
No worries, and I'd drop the 2nd Field Generator Console: More often than not, my Fleet Escort doesn't need to use any of them, and the Armitage is hardier than a FE with the ability to slot EPTS2/3 and still take Aux2SIF. The Electroceramic strikes me as a bit superfluous too - generally if my FE is going to die, it'll be from torpedo hits on the hull, where a Field Generator and an Electroceramic Armor won't help me, but a Monotanium Alloy Console can make a good bit of difference. Especially with no Borg 2-Piece Set bonus.
I'd suggest you may want to re-examine your assumptions about Tetryon Glider's effectiveness though. In theory there's a lot of synergy to stack it and Tetryons, but in practice I've found that the 5% Recharge bonus from the MACO set works out better, as having your Tac Abilities up more regularly means higher damage, which beats out the small always-on shield drain. Ditto for Tetryon Weaponry versus Disruptors - the extra 10% damage from Disruptors tends to beat Tetryon's small drain potential for reducing the amount of time you spend killing an enemy, even with shields up.
I gave a similar build a go. Major diffenrces were phasers instead of tetryons for energy weapon and my quad phaser cannons.. I also thru a tcd launcher in place of one of the turrets in back (Denatra did not like it to much when I flipped a b... And she took one plus ts2 to her naked hull) . It was a lot of fun to try something different than the standard 3+1 weapon setup. I also ran d-fliers with runabouts on standby and both point defense mods.
Started a KA PuG run (not elite, I was paranoid the build was going to be FAIL). After the tac cube fell, I sprinted over to the right side for probe blocking. Yeah.. That god boring fast.. Posted up about 12k from the gate and didn't move for 4 or 5 waves. When I started on the generators (only one on the right side). Only lost two probes ( the kids distracted me if you were in the game with me, sorry for losing the opt for you) and dropped the gate about 20 to 30 seconds before the left side. (yes some else joined me)
Switched out to the runabouts for Denatra. With all tractors firing off between my one and my pets (not sure if anyone else was using holds, there were to many beams slamming her to tell). She couldn't cloak there were so many. I didn't get a chance to pharse the run, yeah I forgot...
Load Out
And
BOff Setup