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Energy Drain // Support Atrox Build, Suggestions Welcome!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2012 in PvP Gameplay
I have been trying to figure out the best way to go about using the Atrox carrier in PVP. My current setup is being used in pugs where I attempt to debuff/ imobolize a target while providing heals to my teammates. I will post more details later.

The U.S.S. Encephalon:

Sci captain: Dopamine

BOFFs
Tac- TT1 // AP:B
Eng: EPtS1 // RSP // AtSIF2
Sci: Tractor Beam 1 // ST2 // ES2 // ES3
Sci: HE1 // TSS2 // HE3

Weapon layout- 6 Polaron arrays. Each have at least 1 Acc

4 piece Borg set for the Borg ES tractor beam
Special Devices: Red Matter
Eng slots: 3 18 resist all
Sci slots: 2 Shield generators // 1 Borg piece // Flow capacitor (+26)
Tac slots: 2 Polaron +26%
Hangars: Adv Danube // Adv Stalkers (not sure if I like the Stalkers)

My DOFFs are currently 3 ST and 2 TT buffs, not sure what else to use atm.

My current belief is that it is best to not use any abilities that require the opponent to be in my front 90 arc. I switch my power levels depending on the situation obviously, but all of the ES keeps my levels really high.. I also try to call out targets so that my debuffs are taken advantage of. What suggestions can you guys suggest?
I am considering switching RSP out, but I dislike that extend shields can only be used on allys, I often save RSP for saving myself if I get focus fired.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I am no pro or whatever, just also been working on my own carrier ideas. So please feel free to take anything I post with a grain of salt.


    I would drop the 4-piece retro Borg and slot the Maco shield. I know, everyone talks about it all the time, but there's a decent reason for it. It's resilient, has a nice capacity, and gives you better energy resistance. Sure, it's regen isn't as high, but the other aspects more than make up for it.

    If you really liked the tractor, it may be quite viable for you to drop the HE1 and slot a second tractor beam. AFAIK tractors don't share cooldowns, but I may just be remembering wrong (I don't have two on any ship at the moment and am not sure if I tried that before).

    I've never run more than one copy of energy siphon, so I cannot speak to whether or not that is a good idea. But really if you're liking it I don't see why not. However if you dropped one you could slot, say, Viral Matrix or PSW or TBR. However those aren't energy drains per so, so they may not fit your theme/aim at all! Instead you could look at Tachyon Beam instead of ES 2.

    *shrug* Just some ideas / comments.


    edit: Oops I thought this but didn't actually type it -- You may want to try out dropping one of your armor Eng. consoles for a SIF generator to boost Aux2SIF and HE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I would be using the MACO shield if it ever dropped... I've got 2 engines and deflector arrays, but I have never seen the shield. As soon as it drops, I do plan on making that switch.

    Up until last night I had been running two tractor beams and the Borg beam, in PVP it is quite nice, so I'm not sure if saving an ally with HE is worth more. Tractor beams do share cool downs when used, but when running 2 normal TB, one will almost always be up if the other isn't being used. It may be more efficient to be using abilities that I can use anytime. Though I have the same issue with ST2 and TT1, but they are both so good...

    I do like VM3, so that is always a possibility


    Thanks for the ideas!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    [...]
    edit: Oops I thought this but didn't actually type it -- You may want to try out dropping one of your armor Eng. consoles for a SIF generator to boost Aux2SIF and HE.

    That won't make a significant impact. Hull resistance is usually worth more, IMHO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Which Hangars have people found the best results with? I think keeping one set of Adv Danube is a good idea for free TB's. Perhaps peregrine for strait up dps?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I have been trying to figure out the best way to go about using the Atrox carrier in PVP. My current setup is being used in pugs where I attempt to debuff/ imobolize a target while providing heals to my teammates. I will post more details later.

    The U.S.S. Encephalon:

    Sci captain: Dopamine

    BOFFs
    Tac- TT1 // AP:B
    Eng: EPtS1 // RSP // AtSIF2
    Sci: Tractor Beam 1 // ST2 // ES2 // ES3
    Sci: HE1 // TSS2 // HE3

    Weapon layout- 6 Polaron arrays. Each have at least 1 Acc

    4 piece Borg set for the Borg ES tractor beam
    Special Devices: Red Matter
    Eng slots: 3 18 resist all
    Sci slots: 2 Shield generators // 1 Borg piece // Flow capacitor (+26)
    Tac slots: 2 Polaron +26%
    Hangars: Adv Danube // Adv Stalkers (not sure if I like the Stalkers)

    My DOFFs are currently 3 ST and 2 TT buffs, not sure what else to use atm.

    My current belief is that it is best to not use any abilities that require the opponent to be in my front 90 arc. I switch my power levels depending on the situation obviously, but all of the ES keeps my levels really high.. I also try to call out targets so that my debuffs are taken advantage of. What suggestions can you guys suggest?
    I am considering switching RSP out, but I dislike that extend shields can only be used on allys, I often save RSP for saving myself if I get focus fired.

    Hmm... Well first thing I'd state, is that Energy Siphon gets resisted heavily, as does Tykens Rift. The only reason the KDF side has a better ability to support a Carrier Drain build, is due to Siphon Drones and the Console known as Plasmonic Leech. Those two combined with Polaron Weaponry and then Tykens Rift and/or Energy Siphon can provide nasty results to enemies.

    On the fed side, with the current state of Sci Resists, I do not believe it is possible to actually do what can be done on the KDF side. Tyken's Rift only stacks up 2 times and gets defended against just like Energy siphon by the Insulators skill last I checked. Even with Target Subsystem abilities, it still as far as I've noticed just is not as comparable to what the KDF side does.

    Now that does not make Energy siphon entirely useless. Energy siphon, despite it getting resisted against a target, still can provide a MASSIVE boost to all power levels with a duration that is based on how high your aux setting is. (On my KDF character that uses Energy Siphon 3, I get a +42 to all power systems for about 40 seconds at 125 Aux)

    With that being said, a Drain build should not be considered as viable at this time with the Federation Carrier Atrox. I am sorry to have to say this, but I have not come across a build that I could do well with while also trying to provide the healing support that the Atrox can be used to provide.

    My Current Atrox Sci build, is a healer build (As best I can get it) with:
    TT 1, Scatter Volley 1
    Emergency Power to shields 1, Aux to Sif 1, Extend shields 2
    Tractor beam 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Science team 3, Scramble Sensors 3 or Photonic Shockwave 3, or Tractor Repulsors 3 (Depends on the team I'm running against)
    Tractor Beam 1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer Shields 3

    I also use MACO shield mk XI, Borg Engine, Borg Deflector

    For weapons I'm using 6 Mk X Phaser Turrets till I can eventually get 6 Prototype Borg Salvage to swap those out for Mk XII [Borg] Turrets and then save up the funds to get better Turrets down the line. I use the Turrets only for Proc Support with 2x Peregrine Fighters. I plan to eventually try to get Advanced Peregrine Fighters as well as Advanced danubes and Advanced Stalkers Depending on what I can scrounge up in the future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I have been curious about wether the PI resist was making me far less effective than I thought... That's a shame. I liked the build so much because it allowed me to use any of my abilities regardless of my position. Do you think that the power level boost might be worth it alongside a minimal drain? I had been using phaser arrays before, I like them for the subsystem targeting and the slightly higher dps. I could certainly see myself switching those back in.

    Before I go switching out of ESing, what power levels do you think I should use? Should I cap aux before using it, and then switch -40 or so to allow the buff to be utilized?
    I do like your BoFF setup though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I have been curious about wether the PI resist was making me far less effective than I thought... That's a shame. I liked the build so much because it allowed me to use any of my abilities regardless of my position. Do you think that the power level boost might be worth it alongside a minimal drain? I had been using phaser arrays before, I like them for the subsystem targeting and the slightly higher dps. I could certainly see myself switching those back in.

    Before I go switching out of ESing, what power levels do you think I should use? Should I cap aux before using it, and then switch -40 or so to allow the buff to be utilized?
    I do like your BoFF setup though.

    Yeah The Power insulator resists is quite bad for powers like Energy siphon, Tykens rift, and the like by themselves.

    Well, you can use energy Siphon if planned to switch between Aux power and Weapon Power often for a more Direct Damage build. But a Carrier really isn't great for that purpose. And it might prove better on a Tac Carrier (As I have suggested in a previous Tac based Post concerning the Atrox)

    Beam Arrays are fine. I'm just using what I had at the time. And since I am mostly in 125 Aux power setting, using the turrets just for Procs is what I'm doing with it at the time. Of course eventually I might change my mind on the turrets and go back to beams for Target subsystems to attempt Disable procs from those as well.

    Dispite Viral Matrix being a 90 degree Frontal Arc, you could also go with that when you get some one in your Subnuc Arc to not only Strip their buffs, but to disable their Weapons, Engines, And/or Aux power for ease at killing them. Though that gets abit trickier to manage and you can't really utilize it more then a Sci ship can unfortunately.

    Gravity Well 3 is also a useful tool in helping to control Enemy pets. Especially when you run into Energy Siphon based Carrier groups.

    Other wise it just depends on what powers you need to fill a gap. Having multiple Powers on different offers to change when the oppertunity arises is also very useful on a Carrier. Because you can't always predict when you might need a Gravity well, a Tractor Repulsors, or a Photonic Shockwave. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I have a BOFF with VM3, I may try going back to him, with maybe another TB instead of the ES.
    One thing is bothering me, I went on my KDF, bought the Energy siphon drones and sent them to my Fed, it says that they work on carriers, but when I try to equip them it says that I do not meet the requirements... What a shame.
    Also, do you believe that a good number of players have points in Power Insulators?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I have a BOFF with VM3, I may try going back to him, with maybe another TB instead of the ES.
    One thing is bothering me, I went on my KDF, bought the Energy siphon drones and sent them to my Fed, it says that they work on carriers, but when I try to equip them it says that I do not meet the requirements... What a shame.
    Also, do you believe that a good number of players have points in Power Insulators?

    Most of the ones that belong to good Fleets do. And anyone who reads the forums. Not to mention it's a very low tier skill making it easy to dump at least 6 points in with out costing anything else in most builds. Given how small the PVP community is supposed to be, I'd expect that to make the chances very good.

    But of course there are exceptions. Especially when facing up against P.U.Gs. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I am currently trying Scramble Sensors 2 and VM3. Perhaps Scramble sensors 3 might be very good as it does not have the 90 degree arc like VM3. Is VM resisted like ES is?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    VM's defense I believe tied to Subsystem Repair from the Engineering tree. And that defense does not work well since it's also tied to Crew that EAISLY gets removed. Same with anything that can disable a subsystem. Engineering team can provide a 5 Second immunity to it's effects, but it does not clear it.

    Scramble Sensors has a resist in Sensor training. While it's not always as highly trained, you can expect at least Science officers to have training in it since it buffs sensor scan. Even untrained, Scramble Sensors 3 can last about 12 seconds maybe 15 before Resists are taken into account. And even against some Premades, Scramble Sensors 3 seems to last at least 5-10 seconds with out training in the skill necessary.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    SS2 and 3 is proving to be pretty nifty. I noticed that it seems to reset my opponents targeting when it hits. That provides a nice recover period for my teammates. I might ACTUALLY switch to Extend Shields over a second EPTS, but I am still on the edge.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    SS2 and 3 is proving to be pretty nifty. I noticed that it seems to reset my opponents targeting when it hits. That provides a nice recover period for my teammates. I might ACTUALLY switch to Extend Shields over a second EPTS, but I am still on the edge.

    Extends is only necessary if you feel you need it as an extra heal. Though I usually have to use it with another quick shield heal like my Sci team 3 to make sure the shields are full while they get their resists from the Extends. I know it's not a great way to use my Sci team 3..

    Also for my Sci Team 3, I have the Doffs necessary to get it's Cool down to the 15 second Global Cool down. So even if I use a Tac Team, I'll still have my Sci team 15 seconds later. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Are you using Tac Team Doffs too?
    I just used Extend shields and I had over 4x more heals than the rest of the team, very helpful.
    Thanks!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Are you using Tac Team Doffs too?
    I just used Extend shields and I had over 4x more heals than the rest of the team, very helpful.
    Thanks!

    No, just the 2 Rare and 1 Uncommon science team Doffs and I only have 1 Shield Distro right now and 1 Damage control. I plan to go 2 Purple Shield Distros when I get them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sophlogimo wrote:
    That won't make a significant impact. Hull resistance is usually worth more, IMHO.

    Useless?! As a healer/supporter? I don't know, with a SIF Generator you can help your team much better than completely resi buff your ship with those consoles. Right now I run two SIF and one 18% res console, works decent. I found no benefit of using more than two 18% armors - even those two I haven't used since weeks because I found them not worth it.

    ASIF2:
    0 SIF - 6.594 heal
    1 SIF - 6.961 heal
    2 SIF - 7.329 heal

    HE2:
    0 SIF - 17.583 heal
    1 SIF - 18.563 heal
    2 SIF - 19.543 heal


    I would write more, but I don't have time for it right now :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Teslanar wrote:
    [...]
    ASIF2:
    0 SIF - 6.594 heal
    1 SIF - 6.961 heal
    2 SIF - 7.329 heal

    HE2:
    0 SIF - 17.583 heal
    1 SIF - 18.563 heal
    2 SIF - 19.543 heal


    I would write more, but I don't have time for it right now :(

    Those are about the same numbers from my tests. That is hardly a significant impact. Increase is below 5% per console. You're probably better off with an aux energy boost, but I haven't tested that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sophlogimo wrote:
    Those are about the same numbers from my tests. That is hardly a significant impact. Increase is below 5% per console. You're probably better off with an aux energy boost, but I haven't tested that.

    I think a 5.5% increase is better then a 3.5 power increase in aux power. :) better off running EPS units and switching power to full aux before you use your heals.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Running 4 Piece borg set is a waste, the assimilated tractor's proccs are not worth the 4 minute cooldown.
    I suggest you look into the following:

    Maco (survivability) / Omega Shields (glider)
    Maco (survivability) / Omega Def (Glider)
    Borg Engines
    Borg Universal Console.

    This will give you the 2 piece set bonus of each and will significantly aid survivability.

    Finally, unless you are tac you arent going to get much dps out of the atrox even with 2 sets of fighters. (unless you are running a FBPIII build - in which case seek out "Sarkonis" in game)

    I suggest switching out your regular polarons for Phased Polarons (with the tet procc) and run the 2 piece omega.

    On my Karfi my Phased Pols curently procc the following: -

    2.5% -49 Power Levels
    2.5% -319 Shields

    This is excluding the Plasmonic leech which for me is -3 levels per shot for 15 secs AND If i run the two piece omega each beam drops an additional -45 shields.

    This can be used to devestating effect if used in conjunction with FAW, Energy Siphon and/or Tykens. (And for all my KDF brothers, Aceton Assim and Power Siphons)

    I have the Atrox on my Sci Fed. - I would stay the HELL away from any Boff power that requires a 90 degree arc. - So Viral matrix and tykens would be a No No. In the heat of battle, between healing, hitting buffs, switching power levels, its quite dificult to get your enemy into fore arc. (Sure hitting Evasive maneuveirs and reverse works - but without evasive its near impossible to keep a high impulse speed ship in arc.)

    IMO - Your best bet WITH phased pols and Omega would be running Siphon III, Tractor III, ST (Or TSS) and a HE. Adv Danube (Tractors) and Peregrine (Phaser Proccs)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    husanak and kilaw are spot on. Energy Drain Carriers don't really work with the ATrox. As for cc your can either go down the subsystem disable route or the immobilce route. Nothing strikes me as horrible choices from your build.

    So for subsytem disabales (spec accordingly) use Peregrin fighters (for phaser procs) and phaser beams / or turrets if you can live with having low dps stats at the end of each match. VM is cool but tricky, i didn't like it in my disable build, I think you get more fun out of SS3/FBP3. Make your TSS and ST lt cmd skills for better support.

    Don't understimate the healing supression of the STalker pets, very effective against heal cruisers. With two TB1 in en Sci slots one hanger danube and one stalker can be nasty. Cmd sci skill of choice and preference. I found ES to be hard to use since the Atrox turns like the a carrier. Might want to switch to ES1-Aux2Sif2 since your temamates will receive the AUx2Sif more often.
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