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Testing the Waters: New and Continuing Leagues

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2012 in PvP Gameplay
Hey all,

The ideas and requests for new tournaments have been bounced around on these forums from time to time and they've either fizzled out or been played out, either way there is nothing going on right now that I'm aware of and people are posting about a lack of things to do. Furthermore, all of previous tournaments have been largely the same with full teams of 5, so I think a little bit of change is in order and I'm looking to see the kind of interest that there would be from the PvP community.

I'm proposing the creation of three continuous leagues: 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3; each with random draw brackets and a ranking listed based off of performance. Each match played would require screenshot proof and it would be submitted to me (or whoever happened to be running/officiating the leagues at the time) to be compiled and updated for all to see.

Here's an example of the rules for the 1v1 League:
[list=0]1v1:[list=0]
[*]Matches in the 1v1 League are to 5 kills, whoever hits 5 kills first is the winner[list=0]
[*]Matches that end in a tie are replayed[/list]
[*]All Matches in the 1v1 league must have an observer who submits the scoreboard screenshot and ensures fair play
[*]Matches will run a maximum of 20 minutes (enforced by the match's observer)[list=0]
[*]If time limit is reached then the match ends and the player with the highest score wins
[*]Matches can go no more than 5 minutes without combat (enforced by the match's observer)[list=0]
[*]If a match goes longer than 5 minutes without combat then the match ends with the player that refused to engage forfeiting the match
[*]Players can request an AFK for real life issues, if this occurs then the game clock is stopped while player(s) are away; attacks on the AFK player will cause the match to end with the attacking player forfeiting the match. Furthermore, the AFK player must announce that they're back and have it acknowledged by all before they attack, or they will forfeit the match[/list][/list]
[*]All brackets and data will be officially updated on/by Saturday night (eastern) and new matches posted Sunday morning; all players have 1 week to complete their match and have the results submitted
[/list][/list]

The leagues will be either single or double elimination based on the number of people who sign up to play, which coincidentally also dictates the length that a given 'season' lasts. At the end of a given season, there is a one week 'off-season' to sign up again and/or work things out with your teams.

For the 2v2 and 3v3 leagues, teams would be based on players, not their fleets and would designate their own name. Additionally, players can participate in all three leagues at the same time, but cannot be on more than one team in a particular league.

Finally, the C-Store ships and consoles raise some debate for these things as to whether they should be allowed or not. Based on the amount of interest in the league(s) and how much people care about the console/ships then the leagues would be split in two where one league allowed any ship/console in the game and the other league was non-Cstore items only.

Anyway, that's an example of what I'm proposing and yes I'm willing to put in the work if there is interest. So the big question is.....would yall be interested in a 1v1, 2v2 and/or 3v3 league?

Please post and thanks for yalls time :)
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    im not much of a dueler, but i'd throw my hat in the ring here and there

    as for 3v3......keep a close eye on ship and class restrictions, the last thing anyone wants is a 3v3 cruiser snorefest.

    either way, anyone who could bring in some structure in this format would be welcomed i think

    have fun kill bad guys

    horizon
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I like the conceptual Idea.

    As far as C-store goes, I'd say just limit the Consoles to either Nothing above Tier 5, or No Consoles at all. Because the ships aren't necessarely as terrible as the Consoles they bring forth.

    I guess I could be up for it depending on if/when things happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Oh Sivar! You know I love 1v1's!

    Honestly though Sivar, lets be realistic. The game is F2P now. And everyone who stopped subbing basically has to pay for any Tier 5 ship now. There is no more Free token. (Well unless ur a Subber or lifetimer, but thats basically 'paid' as well'

    Defiant is a pay2win ship now as well,
    MVAM is a pay2win ship.

    No matter how you put it, every Tier 5 VA ship is basically pay2win some way or another. Be it with dilithium or Cpoints, or even just EC's. (For the grabbag lockbox ships).

    Everyone at some point has spent some thing on this game and if you're a new f2p'er and dont want to spent a single penny (whatever currency ingame, real currency, etc) stick with your Tier 4 ship and don't whine.

    I think making 2 different leagues for 'paid' ships and 'free' ships will only divide the community more.

    What about f2p consoles then? In my example; I'm not going to fight someone in the 'payed ships' league who fits his whole ship with these things.

    I think you should keep it basic; All ships allowed, no p2w allowed. The most important thing to keep this league fair is probably to keep all the p2w consoles out. Allow all ships.

    If you want to go strict, you would probably want to deny Cruiser Engineers with RSPx2 against each other as well, because I can hardly believe there will be any progress of an outcome with those 2 fighting each other in the next 10 years.

    Zombiecruisers FTW!
    I like the conceptual Idea.

    As far as C-store goes, I'd say just limit the Consoles to either Nothing above Tier 5, or No Consoles at all. Because the ships aren't necessarely as terrible as the Consoles they bring forth.

    I guess I could be up for it depending on if/when things happen.

    Then comes the next question, If we do allow Tier 5 consoles, how would a Bop vs Defiant end? Both cloaked? who will decloak first? Etc etc etc. Its getting a bit complicated this way. I think if this ought to happen we just need some basic rules and be a little flexible in the matches itself. Defiant escort says to Bop: Ok man, i will be the one not using the cloak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sci/zombiecruiser lf1v1?!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I think you should keep it basic; All ships allowed, no p2w allowed. .

    except that the p2w jem ship is far superior alone to every p2w console added together. better idea. no rules, no restrictions on ship/consoles. kkthnks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    EmoeJoe wrote:
    except that the p2w jem ship is far superior alone to every p2w console added together. better idea. no rules, no restrictions on ship/consoles. kkthnks

    Haha love you mini <3

    Cloak = OP shouldn't be allowed, lets be honest, we cant play kikaboo in 1v1's with both ships cloaked. Both parties need to make concessions.

    :)

    its ok kk
    kkthxchnk
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Then comes the next question, If we do allow Tier 5 consoles, how would a Bop vs Defiant end? Both cloaked? who will decloak first? Etc etc etc. Its getting a bit complicated this way. I think if this ought to happen we just need some basic rules and be a little flexible in the matches itself. Defiant escort says to Bop: Ok man, i will be the one not using the cloak.

    Bop Decloaks.. waits for Defiant to Decloak, Jams him, gets behind him.. and full alpha strikes him. Problem solved. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Bop Decloaks.. waits for Defiant to Decloak, Jams him, gets behind him.. and full alpha strikes him. Problem solved. :D

    defiant uses ST, and goes to town anyhow?

    What about BoP vs BoP?

    Cloak vs Cloak fights are pretty much on par with undying cruisers/carriers fighting eachother.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Bop Decloaks.. waits for Defiant to Decloak, Jams him, gets behind him.. and full alpha strikes him. Problem solved. :D

    What about, Bop decloaks, waits for defiant to decloak, jams him. Defiant sciteam's himself, bop nukes Defiant, defiant screwed. (This assigntment Requires a Duty Officer with the 'Noob' trait for Critical Success though :)

    ^^ :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    What about, Bop decloaks, waits for defiant to decloak, jams him. Defiant sciteam's himself, bop nukes Defiant, defiant screwed. (This assigntment Requires a Duty Officer with the 'Noob' trait for Critical Success though :)

    ^^ :D

    Hehe that works too. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    im not much of a dueler, but i'd throw my hat in the ring here and there

    as for 3v3......keep a close eye on ship and class restrictions, the last thing anyone wants is a 3v3 cruiser snorefest.

    either way, anyone who could bring in some structure in this format would be welcomed i think

    have fun kill bad guys

    horizon

    I hear ya, but this was just trying to see if there would be any interest at all in the idea itself before I loaded people down with the rules of each league. As for the 3v3, I had a point system in mind to prevent mega-tank groups or all carrier groups, etc etc etc.

    Believe me I'd given this a fair bit of thought before posting and I'm not saying it's perfect, just trying to see if people would even want to do it before I out in the effort of getting things going :).
    Oh Sivar! You know I love 1v1's!

    -snip-

    Then comes the next question, If we do allow Tier 5 consoles, how would a Bop vs Defiant end? Both cloaked? who will decloak first? Etc etc etc. Its getting a bit complicated this way. I think if this ought to happen we just need some basic rules and be a little flexible in the matches itself. Defiant escort says to Bop: Ok man, i will be the one not using the cloak.

    Yeah I'd forgotten about the loss of ship tokens since I'd returned, good point; it was a bit of a stigma to use p2w stuff when I was playing before but now it's just par for the course I guess :(

    As for the double cloak matches, remembering that there needs to be a kill to win the match or it's a tie, but that aside I was thinking of having a random roll by the observer to see who decloaks first and alternate after each kill.
    Zorena wrote:
    sci/zombiecruiser lf1v1?!

    Well if there is enough interest and I get this going then maybe it will help Cryptic spot one of the game's problems :p
    EmoeJoe wrote:
    except that the p2w jem ship is far superior alone to every p2w console added together. better idea. no rules, no restrictions on ship/consoles. kkthnks

    That could add up into some serious grudge matches with some of the consoles, lol.

    In all seriousness though, that was another reason for this thread; to get a feel for people's positions on the C-store items and their use.



    Please keep the responses coming, trying to see if it's worth the effort to set up :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sivar wrote: »
    That could add up into some serious grudge matches with some of the consoles, lol.

    In all seriousness though, that was another reason for this thread; to get a feel for people's positions on the C-store items and their use.

    A single p2w console is not a huge deal in a 1v1 match (except maybe plasmotic leech).
    AMS can be annoying, but without a chorus of chained AMS's its not so bad, you can clear it or tank the damage/wait for abit.
    Acetons can get spammy but it really needs afew people doing it, and because they are stationary in an arena you can just run away.

    Your main concerns need to be stuff like super drain builds on karfi's, bug ships that can dps with the best escort but self heal for insane numbers, ships that just don't die.

    Most of this can be overcome/worked around in a group since there is always the good ol fallback of "focus fire and subnuc it to death". Its really hard to burst down a cruiser or carrier solo, well tanked ones will pretty much NEVER die in a 1v1 barring insane strings of lucky crits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Points system for team build works nicely, in theory :) And if you went with that Sivar, I know that I will participate in the action.

    I actually think that if you went to a point system for team builds. you could have T5 ship with a few T3s, assuming e can weight each ship apropriately.

    Thats just me thinking outside of the box. Cake?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Most of the problematic abilities only get really problematic if used by teams.

    Exception is probably really only self-healing Cruisers. And maybe BoP alpha strikes with every burst console and ability there is?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    shelev wrote:
    A single p2w console is not a huge deal in a 1v1 match (except maybe plasmotic leech).
    AMS can be annoying, but without a chorus of chained AMS's its not so bad, you can clear it or tank the damage/wait for abit.
    Acetons can get spammy but it really needs afew people doing it, and because they are stationary in an arena you can just run away.

    Your main concerns need to be stuff like super drain builds on karfi's, bug ships that can dps with the best escort but self heal for insane numbers, ships that just don't die.

    Most of this can be overcome/worked around in a group since there is always the good ol fallback of "focus fire and subnuc it to death". Its really hard to burst down a cruiser or carrier solo, well tanked ones will pretty much NEVER die in a 1v1 barring insane strings of lucky crits.

    The problem is, there are no calculations made by any Supercomputer on any aspect of this game to basically give us results on what would be equally fail in 1v1's, or 2v2's or 5v5's for that matter. Its impossible. The variables on all aspects are too complex for that. The best you can do is compare ship by ship, and 1 ship having 42K hull and the other only 32K but with a cloak can completely destroy any reasonable comparision.

    Its just impossible. The only thing we have is our own opinions on this. You use the cat carrier yourself, its a P2W ship as well, you obviously use petspam with it as well, (Sorry to call this petspam). But the guy under me might not think its OP, or that its balanced against another ship of a total different pace. The guy posting above me might have 100% different opinion about it.

    You get my point. Its so near impossible to make any decent and accurate conclusions on this except for our own subjective opinion. It will be this way, always, in every MMO, in PvP.

    Eventually its up to the player to _realize_ that a MMO will never be 100% balanced in every single aspect. Lets drop those numbers back to 50-60% at best. Eventually its up to the player to take what will make him a optimal player and balance the unbalance of this game, any game, in your own favor. yes, eventually this will include a P2w ship or console.

    The most reasonable thing to do here is probably set up a voting system on what should, and what shouldn't be allowed, and the participation on this event will be based on that. Unforutnately, even that will most likely be totally subjective, and lets make an example, if 70% of the players that vote on that system have no D'kora, Galor, jemmy, or another Cstore ship, they will most likely vote against the use of any of those ships.

    Which will result in 30% players not participating most likely, and this is just for the ship matter, lets move on to consoles now...

    You basically _cannot_ exclude anything out of a P2W and F2P game anymore. Everything is now merged, Cstore, Real Money, Dilithium, Energy Credits, at some point they are all related to each other now. There is no more non-pay2win Tier 5 ship, unless you Sub montly or are a lifetimer, wouldn't you call that pay2win either? I know of people who gladly want a Lifetime but they just cannot get the money together for it. I know people who do no longer want to sub because they cannot afford a monthly or they do not think its worth it. Other people who are sub or lifetime get 400 points a month, a few months and u can get a new cstore ship. Etc etc etc. Im not sure on this, but nobody gets any more VA tokens, at least not if u do not sub or have lifetime. Basically all the T5 ships are now P2w, you can bend the fact, you can try and talk your way around it, its the truth. If some f2p'er has no lifetime and doesnt sub, and he dearly wants a B'rel Retrofit on KDF and he pays for it tru the Cstore, he has a p2w ship. Thats that. Just an example. but its too short sighted to just say this is p2w and that is not p2w.

    In any case, these are the most reasons why these events mostly end up in failure. I definately do not hope so, but...

    /Discuss.


    (btw on ur statement on Aceton assimilators, stationary, etc. But if all your systems are drained to 0 you can use anything you want but you cannot get away. Plasmonic leech, energy syphons, stack it all baby yeh. :p

    Last time not even my Engine bat worked because somehow it was greyed out. Oh well just saying)
    shelev wrote:
    Your main concerns need to be stuff like super drain builds on karfi's, bug ships that can dps with the best escort but self heal for insane numbers, ships that just don't die..

    Sorry but perhaps you should consider getting out of that Cat carrier and go into a escort yourself, Ive seen numberous bugs pop each day including myself, they are far from invincible. Most even take DEM1 as an extra dont let me laugh lol. No offense dude but perhaps you should team up with a decent escort so that he can take them out for ya? :) And no, that doesnt necessarily have to be a bug in order to win.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Edited for size reasons

    I pretty much agree that to a large extent its left to the eye of the beholder, but at the same time certain things just don't work unless you are TRIBBLE.

    How do you 1v1 with zombie cruisers/super tanks that don't die to a single players damage?
    How do you 1v1 "fairly" with ships on both sides that cloak?

    If you ban/prevent super tanks, you may aswell all just fly escorts.
    An alternating setup of player A decloaks first, then player B, repeat style thing but it still leaves something to be desired.

    1v1 in this game just isn't that great.

    Sorry but perhaps you should consider getting out of that Cat carrier and go into a escort yourself, Ive seen numberous bugs pop each day including myself, they are far from invincible. Most even take DEM1 as an extra dont let me laugh lol. No offense dude but perhaps you should team up with a decent escort so that he can take them out for ya? :) And no, that doesnt necessarily have to be a bug in order to win.

    Karfi's with drain stacking are dumb, you pretty much agree'd in your above post. Well not so much to karfi's in particular but drain stacking and imo karfi's are the best at it.

    Unkillable/super tank/zombie/whatever is an issue, and I admit my ship will generally toe this line and barring lag/dc I'm generally not gonna die outside of some serious focus fire with subnucs or getting drained dry. Alot of other people can manage this too, its not something that special which is sorta part of the reason its a problem.

    Bugships can get obscene heal values compared to other escorts. While there alphas are pretty much inline with the rest of the gang there self healing is obscene. I've seen bugships finish arena matches with 600k+.
    In general bugships also tend to seem like a goodluck charm in Arena's. If the pug I end up in actually has a bugship, more often than not we already won, conversely if the opposing team has a bugship generally we lose. If both teams have one (used to be rare, maybe not so much after this doff event) its the usual TRIBBLE shoot.
    How/why bugships get such huge healing numbers, I'm not really sure statistically they shouldn't be pumping heals like that but they are. Currently I'm guessing its something to do with SDO's, but I'm not really sure.


    As to your suggestion of having a pet escort follow me around, I'd love to have one, but I don't play regularly enough (mostly weekends maybe afew hours after work on weekdays), so mostly I can't have that luxury.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well this hasn't received any responses in about a week so I'm guessing that there isn't enough interest to do a 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 league?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    if i didnt have a retail schedule across 3 states and a 5 year old, and a demanding wife.....

    i'd love to be part of anything like this. heck, ive only been on a full panda team a few times in the past month. it breaks my big sad panda heart.

    my opinion is that someone well known needs to spearhead it and sell it like hotcakes. tsi fundays were great.

    i would have called them Horizon fundays, but thats just me... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    3v3 for sure , as there is only 3 of us :p

    No console ,, and no zombie chains ,, nice and simple


    Oh and no pets ,, it is pvp after all :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012

    i would have called them Horizon fundays, but thats just me... :)

    You sir, are full of teh epic winz!

    :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well there appears to be some interest both from here and in game so I'll give this a shot and start making an official thread with sign-ups and rules, etc.
  • hocofaisanhocofaisan Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    This sounds like fun, and I can't wait to try it.
    POSITIVE ABOUT CO IN 2013!
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