So, I'm not really that invested in PvP, I generally do not enjoy it and could take it or leave it, but... I had an idea and I figured I'd post it.
The thing that has always driven me away from PvP is getting ganged up on. It would just happen to me constantly when I did PvP... I couldn't tell if I was being targeted specifically, every time, or if it was simply a matter of the opposing team being organized such that they focus fired each of their opponents in turn, all five on one, and then moved on in cycle to another opponent while that one was sent to respawn limbo.
What if there was an incentive that encouraged PvP opponents to target people who target them? Here's my thought: if you fire weapons in a PvP and you aren't targeting another player who has you as their primary target, you get a short duration debuff (damage resistance, maybe). This would discourage the whole getting constantly ganged up on phenomena that drives me (and I would guess, quite a number of others) away. Furthermore, it creates a situation where you have a vested interest in matching up with one other specific opponent, mutually, so that you both avoid the debuff. The buff wouldn't stack and would go away very quickly if you stopped firing on PvPers who weren't targeting you. It wouldn't factor into PvE combat at all, whether in the main game or with respect to NPCs in PvP maps.
Good idea? Bad idea? Doesn't address any actual problem? I'm not sure. I will say that my intuition tells me there's a major flaw with this idea, but I can't think of one.
while i agree it sux to be ganged up on....... it would defeat the purpose of team pvp is this were to be implemented........ u might as well just get rid of the 5v5 que and install a 1v1 que.........
Chances are it wouldn't address the problem that much. The people who focus fire and blow ships up in a few seconds are extremely refined machines and they'll blow you up in... two more seconds. Or worse, you'll see your team slaughtered around you while you wittle away at a shield facing, and just as you get it down, you're the last one standing and the only remaining target.
The only real way to combat teamwork is with teamwork of your own, but it's a difficult situation. You'll get your ragtag team to follow a few commands and orders, but the other teams have been doing it for years and are just inherently better at the game and at countering the counters others throw at them.
In short, a damage resistance debuff probably wouldn't help much to be honest.
The thing that has always driven me away from PvP is getting ganged up on. It would just happen to me constantly when I did PvP... I couldn't tell if I was being targeted specifically, every time, or if it was simply a matter of the opposing team being organized such that they focus fired each of their opponents in turn, all five on one, and then moved on in cycle to another opponent while that one was sent to respawn limbo.
Its teamwork on the oppossing teams part. Most Premades use it and many KDF PuGs use it as well.
A dueling system would be interesting (1 vs 1) que-ups, but in a an open queing system focus fire happens.
Cue auxiliary based healers never targeting anything but friendlies and minespam in arena matrches to utilise constant DR vs everything.
I don't think that is a good idea. For one, you would be discouraging coordination, which seems counter-intuitive to me. For another, for any such damage reduction boost to be signifigant enough as to be an effective deterrant to a second or third or fourth person focusing on you it would need to be very big indeed (otherwise it would make no difference whatsoever), which would only worsen the problem I stated above.
Can you FAW without a target? Any cruiser could than just wallow around fawing and not actually targeting anything (or chosing targets based upon whomever is not shooting at them)
Cue auxiliary based healers never targeting anything but friendlies and minespam in arena matrches to utilise constant DR vs everything.
"DR vs everything?" I'm not entirely sure what you mean -- or maybe you don't understand what I mean. And minespam is of severely limited utility. It's not even that useful (not merely spamming them anyway) in PvE, I have a hard time believing that would happen in PvP. Because it would be happening now.
For one, you would be discouraging coordination, which seems counter-intuitive to me.
I disagree. If you have to leverage your assets by figuring out which person on your team is the best counter for a specific opponent on the opposite team, that's a fair bit of coordination right there. What this discourages is one specific type of coordination, 5-to-1 targeting. And it doesn't prevent people from doing it still, it just means they need to take on a weakness to engage in the behavior. 5-to-1 gangups are less about strategy and real coordination, and more about trigger finger and DPS. It's four people doing "attack his target" while targeted on the team leader.
For another, for any such damage reduction boost to be signifigant enough as to be an effective deterrant to a second or third or fourth person focusing on you it would need to be very big indeed (otherwise it would make no difference whatsoever), which would only worsen the problem I stated above.
Worsen which problem, exactly?
Can you FAW without a target? Any cruiser could than just wallow around fawing and not actually targeting anything (or chosing targets based upon whomever is not shooting at them)
Nobody is going to be taking down opponents with FAW. Because if that were possible... again... everyone would have it in PvP now.
"DR vs everything?" I'm not entirely sure what you mean -- or maybe you don't understand what I mean. And minespam is of severely limited utility. It's not even that useful (not merely spamming them anyway) in PvE, I have a hard time believing that would happen in PvP. Because it would be happening now.
I disagree. If you have to leverage your assets by figuring out which person on your team is the best counter for a specific opponent on the opposite team, that's a fair bit of coordination right there. What this discourages is one specific type of coordination, 5-to-1 targeting. And it doesn't prevent people from doing it still, it just means they need to take on a weakness to engage in the behavior.
Nobody is going to be taking down opponents with FAW. Because if that were possible... again... everyone would have it in PvP now.
What I mean is, you could have a healer ship not targeting any specific enemy, thereby acquiring your defensive buff to anybody shooting at them, by virtue of the healer not targeting anybody that might be shooting at them.
The point is nothing to do with the usefulness of minespam.
Fair point about the different types of coordiantion, but the mast basic form of teamwork is focus fire, easily transmitted to pug's via a simple keybind. Without that, you're going to hav people floating aroun for 10 mins at the start of each match deciding who is going to be dueling whom in this 5 vs 5, team match. Like I said, totally counter-intuitive.
The point about FAW is not to do with it's effectivity, that is besides the point. Cruisers fo bruiser type dps, they kill very little in pvp by virtue of their own dps. The point is about them not specifically targeting anybody (or chosing target on the basis of that target shooting somebody other than self) to gain defensive buffs vs anybody trying to shoot at them.
There is no defensive buff in what I'm proposing. There is a debuff for targeting another PvPer who is not targeting you -- or more accurately, the way I phrased it, firing a weapon only gives you a debuff if your primary target, isn't also targeting you.
A support ship will not be any intrinsically more or less vulnerable, or powerful.
If you do not target somebody, you are not going to do significant damage to them. Area affect attacks simply do not put out enough DPS, to rely on them, and that healer isn't going to be doing much more than minor damage to anybody, even with the debuff in effect. And anyway, the best counter to that is to not target the healer and only attack him with area attacks. It's a two way street.
People are not gaining buffs. You can only earn a debuff in what I'm proposing.
There is no defensive buff in what I'm proposing. There is a debuff for targeting another PvPer who is not targeting you -- or more accurately, the way I phrased it, firing a weapon only gives you a debuff if your primary target, isn't also targeting you.
A support ship will not be any intrinsically more or less vulnerable, or powerful.
If you do not target somebody, you are not going to do significant damage to them. Area affect attacks simply do not put out enough DPS, to rely on them, and that healer isn't going to be doing much more than minor damage to anybody, even with the debuff in effect. And anyway, the best counter to that is to not target the healer and only attack him with area attacks. It's a two way street.
People are not gaining buffs. You can only earn a debuff in what I'm proposing.
OK, so people aren't gaining buffs, but theoretically an entire team gets a damage debuff? Same difference really, in my view you are punishing the most basic form of coordination.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, counter-intuitive.
I don't know. I feel like dueling is for the private queues.
But hey, maybe they'll come up with some P2W tanking console that follows this concept. There are obviously enough people who think they should be able to enter a multiplayer queue but not have to face more than one person at a time.
If you want to duel - there are Plenty of avenues to do it. - i wont go into them as you should be smart enough to figure them out urself.
Now if you want carefree dueling - the answer has be arrived at before.
In jedi Outcast there was a feature where if you challenged someonem and they accepted; both got a blue aura around them and they were immune to any interference during their duel.
Of course that was a simple load it up and fight game. It was a free for all - not really team based.
That sorta system would sadly be so very exploitable in STO. It would ruin more fun than it creates. You have to think carefully about an idea before you implement it or ask for it to be implemented. Don't just think about the benefit you could gain from it - think about all the ways the swarms of douchebags who play mmos could use such an idea and turn it into yet another avenue to grief other players.
Not saying some sort of dueling feature couldnt be worked out - but it would have to be implemented very carefully. I think the war zone has it hard enough without ppl running around doing safety duels to avoid death. That's just the first exploit that came to mind.
--- My Idea.
Now - If they would have taken my idea for spectator arenas and added gladiator 1 v 1 style duels - then everyone would get what they want - with zero impact to the war zone. I think it would be great for the game itself - hell they could even add a sector to the war zone where this takes place - so ppl who just want to duel can fly over and do what they want - and the rest of the ppl who enjoy battle royales can have their usual war zone fun.
Assuming you want this to take place in the war zone.
But of course this idea will begin to manifest itself exactly one day after that company realizes it's player base knows better what to do with the pvp they live and breathe than the guys they pay, who barely get to play perhaps 10 hours a week. IF that.
So, I'm not really that invested in PvP, I generally do not enjoy it and could take it or leave it, but... I had an idea and I figured I'd post it.
The thing that has always driven me away from PvP is getting ganged up on. It would just happen to me constantly when I did PvP... I couldn't tell if I was being targeted specifically, every time, or if it was simply a matter of the opposing team being organized such that they focus fired each of their opponents in turn, all five on one, and then moved on in cycle to another opponent while that one was sent to respawn limbo.
What if there was an incentive that encouraged PvP opponents to target people who target them? Here's my thought: if you fire weapons in a PvP and you aren't targeting another player who has you as their primary target, you get a short duration debuff (damage resistance, maybe). This would discourage the whole getting constantly ganged up on phenomena that drives me (and I would guess, quite a number of others) away. Furthermore, it creates a situation where you have a vested interest in matching up with one other specific opponent, mutually, so that you both avoid the debuff. The buff wouldn't stack and would go away very quickly if you stopped firing on PvPers who weren't targeting you. It wouldn't factor into PvE combat at all, whether in the main game or with respect to NPCs in PvP maps.
Good idea? Bad idea? Doesn't address any actual problem? I'm not sure. I will say that my intuition tells me there's a major flaw with this idea, but I can't think of one.
Thats just the way it is. If you have no experience in pvp what so ever you will be ganked upon.
I know, it sucks, but actually this drove me to where I am now, and this goes for alot of valued PvP members in the community..
You can only learn and improve if you keep trying and trying, either you improve or you do not. And we pvp'ers really love to help with anything we can for the most part.
the main problem why only 1% of the community regularly pvp's is because of the exact same reason you do not PvP. There is only a very small fraction of people that think 'Wow this is actually much more fun than stomping some brainless NPC's" and "Wow this is way more of a challenge than this stupid PVE TRIBBLE". If youre a new PVP'er you will just have to take it for granted that most other pvp'ers are just way and way better then you initially.
Isnt that the CHALLENGE? the THRILL? I cannot understand why people bail out of PVP so fast in a MMO simply because their first initial pvp encounter was a failure. Sorry if i offend you with it, its not intended. I just cannot believe that people have this attitude instead of damn, i wanna take u back no matter the cost, and he begins to train and train, and train, and finally u can TRIBBLE back the guy that once TRIBBLE u when u were a noob.
THATS the whole challenge of pvp, and this is in all MMO's basically. It just requires willpower and a bit of smart sense in terms of, i want to be better then stomping some idiotically dumb Mobs. If you stay on that level, you basically end up on how a Pug Cure Elite space ends up.
I just cannot believe that people have this attitude instead of damn, i wanna take u back no matter the cost, and he begins to train and train, and train, and finally u can TRIBBLE back the guy that once TRIBBLE u when u were a noob.
That, right there, is one problem some people have with PvP.
Friendly competition and trash talk all in good fun? No problem, unless one of the players is a whiny little snot who forgets this is just a game.
Sadistic little trolls (not calling you one) preying on "noobs" because they get a kick out of dominating others and ruining their fun? Not good.
Playing PvP just to get back at somebody? Sucks the fun right out of it for some folks.
Me, for one. I don't have the time to learn to be a master at PvP and I don't have the attitude that likes to stick it to other people.
I can enjoy team-ups when there's actual teamwork involved and everybody's in it for a little friendly competition. I know from these forums that there are PvP players out there who feel this way.
If I fell in with some of those people I might actually learn to enjoy PvP in STO, but I do have this time factor issue. I can't give my teammates 100% focus until everybody else in my house is out cold asleep... and then I'm missing MY sleep. I hate to join a team knowing that I might have to drop out at any time to go take care of one of my kids. And then I am a liability instead of an asset. Don't like doing that to people who are serious about PvP.
I need to play with other guys like me who AREN'T serious about it and can appreciate nice big explosions even when it's our own ships in that fireball.
Meh. Like I said, I'm not invested in PvP. I'm starting to think there is no solution, and it really should just die. There aren't enough people who enjoy it, and there's no way to make it enjoyable for a majority of people because it is such an inherently Darwinistic motive where four losers are what it takes to make one winner. I'll just stick to cooperative gameplay, I guess.
Meh. Like I said, I'm not invested in PvP. I'm starting to think there is no solution, and it really should just die. There aren't enough people who enjoy it, and there's no way to make it enjoyable for a majority of people because it is such an inherently Darwinistic motive where four losers are what it takes to make one winner. I'll just stick to cooperative gameplay, I guess.
People don't think as highly of your suggestion as you do so the obvious conclusion is that PvP should be removed? It actually takes 5 losers to make 5 winners. If people are cooperating to defeat an opponent then people should cooperate to defend a teammate.
Comments
The only real way to combat teamwork is with teamwork of your own, but it's a difficult situation. You'll get your ragtag team to follow a few commands and orders, but the other teams have been doing it for years and are just inherently better at the game and at countering the counters others throw at them.
In short, a damage resistance debuff probably wouldn't help much to be honest.
I don't think that is a good idea. For one, you would be discouraging coordination, which seems counter-intuitive to me. For another, for any such damage reduction boost to be signifigant enough as to be an effective deterrant to a second or third or fourth person focusing on you it would need to be very big indeed (otherwise it would make no difference whatsoever), which would only worsen the problem I stated above.
Can you FAW without a target? Any cruiser could than just wallow around fawing and not actually targeting anything (or chosing targets based upon whomever is not shooting at them)
I disagree. If you have to leverage your assets by figuring out which person on your team is the best counter for a specific opponent on the opposite team, that's a fair bit of coordination right there. What this discourages is one specific type of coordination, 5-to-1 targeting. And it doesn't prevent people from doing it still, it just means they need to take on a weakness to engage in the behavior. 5-to-1 gangups are less about strategy and real coordination, and more about trigger finger and DPS. It's four people doing "attack his target" while targeted on the team leader.
Worsen which problem, exactly?
Nobody is going to be taking down opponents with FAW. Because if that were possible... again... everyone would have it in PvP now.
What I mean is, you could have a healer ship not targeting any specific enemy, thereby acquiring your defensive buff to anybody shooting at them, by virtue of the healer not targeting anybody that might be shooting at them.
The point is nothing to do with the usefulness of minespam.
Fair point about the different types of coordiantion, but the mast basic form of teamwork is focus fire, easily transmitted to pug's via a simple keybind. Without that, you're going to hav people floating aroun for 10 mins at the start of each match deciding who is going to be dueling whom in this 5 vs 5, team match. Like I said, totally counter-intuitive.
The point about FAW is not to do with it's effectivity, that is besides the point. Cruisers fo bruiser type dps, they kill very little in pvp by virtue of their own dps. The point is about them not specifically targeting anybody (or chosing target on the basis of that target shooting somebody other than self) to gain defensive buffs vs anybody trying to shoot at them.
A support ship will not be any intrinsically more or less vulnerable, or powerful.
If you do not target somebody, you are not going to do significant damage to them. Area affect attacks simply do not put out enough DPS, to rely on them, and that healer isn't going to be doing much more than minor damage to anybody, even with the debuff in effect. And anyway, the best counter to that is to not target the healer and only attack him with area attacks. It's a two way street.
People are not gaining buffs. You can only earn a debuff in what I'm proposing.
OK, so people aren't gaining buffs, but theoretically an entire team gets a damage debuff? Same difference really, in my view you are punishing the most basic form of coordination.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, counter-intuitive.
But hey, maybe they'll come up with some P2W tanking console that follows this concept. There are obviously enough people who think they should be able to enter a multiplayer queue but not have to face more than one person at a time.
Now if you want carefree dueling - the answer has be arrived at before.
In jedi Outcast there was a feature where if you challenged someonem and they accepted; both got a blue aura around them and they were immune to any interference during their duel.
Of course that was a simple load it up and fight game. It was a free for all - not really team based.
That sorta system would sadly be so very exploitable in STO. It would ruin more fun than it creates. You have to think carefully about an idea before you implement it or ask for it to be implemented. Don't just think about the benefit you could gain from it - think about all the ways the swarms of douchebags who play mmos could use such an idea and turn it into yet another avenue to grief other players.
Not saying some sort of dueling feature couldnt be worked out - but it would have to be implemented very carefully. I think the war zone has it hard enough without ppl running around doing safety duels to avoid death. That's just the first exploit that came to mind.
---
My Idea.
Now - If they would have taken my idea for spectator arenas and added gladiator 1 v 1 style duels - then everyone would get what they want - with zero impact to the war zone. I think it would be great for the game itself - hell they could even add a sector to the war zone where this takes place - so ppl who just want to duel can fly over and do what they want - and the rest of the ppl who enjoy battle royales can have their usual war zone fun.
Assuming you want this to take place in the war zone.
But of course this idea will begin to manifest itself exactly one day after that company realizes it's player base knows better what to do with the pvp they live and breathe than the guys they pay, who barely get to play perhaps 10 hours a week. IF that.
So... i'm guessing Never.
Thats just the way it is. If you have no experience in pvp what so ever you will be ganked upon.
I know, it sucks, but actually this drove me to where I am now, and this goes for alot of valued PvP members in the community..
You can only learn and improve if you keep trying and trying, either you improve or you do not. And we pvp'ers really love to help with anything we can for the most part.
the main problem why only 1% of the community regularly pvp's is because of the exact same reason you do not PvP. There is only a very small fraction of people that think 'Wow this is actually much more fun than stomping some brainless NPC's" and "Wow this is way more of a challenge than this stupid PVE TRIBBLE". If youre a new PVP'er you will just have to take it for granted that most other pvp'ers are just way and way better then you initially.
Isnt that the CHALLENGE? the THRILL? I cannot understand why people bail out of PVP so fast in a MMO simply because their first initial pvp encounter was a failure. Sorry if i offend you with it, its not intended. I just cannot believe that people have this attitude instead of damn, i wanna take u back no matter the cost, and he begins to train and train, and train, and finally u can TRIBBLE back the guy that once TRIBBLE u when u were a noob.
THATS the whole challenge of pvp, and this is in all MMO's basically. It just requires willpower and a bit of smart sense in terms of, i want to be better then stomping some idiotically dumb Mobs. If you stay on that level, you basically end up on how a Pug Cure Elite space ends up.
That, right there, is one problem some people have with PvP.
Friendly competition and trash talk all in good fun? No problem, unless one of the players is a whiny little snot who forgets this is just a game.
Sadistic little trolls (not calling you one) preying on "noobs" because they get a kick out of dominating others and ruining their fun? Not good.
Playing PvP just to get back at somebody? Sucks the fun right out of it for some folks.
Me, for one. I don't have the time to learn to be a master at PvP and I don't have the attitude that likes to stick it to other people.
I can enjoy team-ups when there's actual teamwork involved and everybody's in it for a little friendly competition. I know from these forums that there are PvP players out there who feel this way.
If I fell in with some of those people I might actually learn to enjoy PvP in STO, but I do have this time factor issue. I can't give my teammates 100% focus until everybody else in my house is out cold asleep... and then I'm missing MY sleep. I hate to join a team knowing that I might have to drop out at any time to go take care of one of my kids. And then I am a liability instead of an asset. Don't like doing that to people who are serious about PvP.
I need to play with other guys like me who AREN'T serious about it and can appreciate nice big explosions even when it's our own ships in that fireball.
People don't think as highly of your suggestion as you do so the obvious conclusion is that PvP should be removed? It actually takes 5 losers to make 5 winners. If people are cooperating to defeat an opponent then people should cooperate to defend a teammate.
PvP will never be for everyone.