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Isometric Charge

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2012 in PvP Gameplay
This is pretty broken:

deals 57727 (84748) Electrical Damage(Critical) to you with Isometric Charge.

6 Starship Hull Plating, 6 Starship Armor Reinforcements

Seriously, that with the ludicrous burst coming out of the PSW bops anyways needs to get addressed. We're talking 130,000+ burst potential with 2 buttons that is usually accompanied by a 5 second stun (time to toss in a tricobalt to make it 150?), one of which is a console.



Here's an idea (I'm sure this will get flamed by klingons but who cares): how about we put AMS and Isometric Charge in the next boxes?.. I'll buy that..

Since you guys complain about AMS so much and all...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    First off.. That is a FULLY TAC BUFFED Isometric Charge. It's the only way to get it to do that kind of damage short of 5 man Debuffs from Sci/Beta/Delta stacking.

    Second, It looks more like a 4th shot in the chain, which is an AOE burst. And it's hard to get that 4th shot to hit things predictibly as far as I have seen.

    Now if people were getting 4 Shot chains STARTING with 50k and going up from there, then I might be in agreement. And that is saying Starting, as in, Not Tac Buffed and you not being Resist Debuffed.

    The way it is now, how ever, it's not as OP and annoying as AMS that can be chained off Scramble at least once every 15 seconds or so.. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I miss the old Tricobalts:(.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    First off.. That is a FULLY TAC BUFFED Isometric Charge. It's the only way to get it to do that kind of damage short of 5 man Debuffs from Sci/Beta/Delta stacking.

    Second, It looks more like a 4th shot in the chain, which is an AOE burst. And it's hard to get that 4th shot to hit things predictibly as far as I have seen.

    Now if people were getting 4 Shot chains STARTING with 50k and going up from there, then I might be in agreement. And that is saying Starting, as in, Not Tac Buffed and you not being Resist Debuffed.

    The way it is now, how ever, it's not as OP and annoying as AMS that can be chained off Scramble at least once every 15 seconds or so.. :rolleyes:

    Go do more KvK (lol I know it doesn't exist) and see how much you enjoy getting randomly one shotted, just because the person using Iso happened to be a tac and decided to buff himself.

    Its also fully random as all heck, so theres nothing to really do about it. They show up (cloaked), buff (while cloaked), uncloak and let the iso charge loose. What can you do besides go "ohwell someones dying because they used Iso, sucks for them, hopefully its not me, totally not worthy of a nerf".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    wrote:
    I miss the old Tricobalts:(.
    How, they didn't even have a defense bonus? :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Maybe you should use it and see just how often you get those numbers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i use it all the time ive only gotten that high like once fully buffed. Normally fully buffed on the last hit its around 35-50k, if that
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I've been hit by it and have hit many with it, I don't think I've yet to be hit that hard with it nor have I hit anyone that hard with it. It's anything but OP, it may occasionally throw out a big wad of damage but so do my torps on bare hull and my torps are more consistent with damage. Guess their OP too. I would, however, like to see Iso Charge in the next cross faction box to add to my anti carrier tactics.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i use it all the time ive only gotten that high like once fully buffed. Normally fully buffed on the last hit its around 35-50k, if that

    Are you stacking/skilled in partical generators I hear that helps.

    Its electric damage, its not resisted (though it does get reduced some, but nothing like kinetic or a standard energy type).
    Its easy to buff to all heck.

    Some good uses I've seen of Iso Charge include firing it into a friendly GW, it will likely get its first few bounces off pets and such before its big hit of doom.
    If someone is dumb enough to launch/use a boarding party, just Iso Charge the lead shuttle and watch the guy who launched them get pwnt by the hand of zeus.
    Drop it in the "fedball" and enjoy, realistically I think this is actually its intended use, punishing the fedball.

    Mostly all they should really do is change the damage type to something resistable in a more realistic fashion.
    Theres no reason to have a power ingame that can literally one shot a person, it just shouldn't exist.
    "but it doesn't happen often" IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.

    Also technically the Iso Charge can jump outside of weapon range. Meaning you drop it on an enemy at about 9k away, it justs to another enemy about 13-14k away from you, and it can continue to jump farther and farther away. Getting randomly hit by the final hit of Iso Charge when you are literally 20k+ away from the person who used it is pretty darn dumb.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    shelev wrote:
    Are you stacking/skilled in partical generators I hear that helps.

    Its electric damage, its not resisted (though it does get reduced some, but nothing like kinetic or a standard energy type).
    Its easy to buff to all heck.

    Some good uses I've seen of Iso Charge include firing it into a friendly GW, it will likely get its first few bounces off pets and such before its big hit of doom.
    If someone is dumb enough to launch/use a boarding party, just Iso Charge the lead shuttle and watch the guy who launched them get pwnt by the hand of zeus.
    Drop it in the "fedball" and enjoy, realistically I think this is actually its intended use, punishing the fedball.

    Mostly all they should really do is change the damage type to something resistable in a more realistic fashion.
    Theres no reason to have a power ingame that can literally one shot a person, it just shouldn't exist.
    "but it doesn't happen often" IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.

    Also technically the Iso Charge can jump outside of weapon range. Meaning you drop it on an enemy at about 9k away, it justs to another enemy about 13-14k away from you, and it can continue to jump farther and farther away. Getting randomly hit by the final hit of Iso Charge when you are literally 20k+ away from the person who used it is pretty darn dumb.

    Yeah im heavy into particle generators. I like to save my ISO for fed balls thats where it shines
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Did Emo shoot somebody "too well" again?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    First off.. That is a FULLY TAC BUFFED Isometric Charge. It's the only way to get it to do that kind of damage short of 5 man Debuffs from Sci/Beta/Delta stacking.

    Second, It looks more like a 4th shot in the chain, which is an AOE burst. And it's hard to get that 4th shot to hit things predictibly as far as I have seen.

    Now if people were getting 4 Shot chains STARTING with 50k and going up from there, then I might be in agreement. And that is saying Starting, as in, Not Tac Buffed and you not being Resist Debuffed.

    The way it is now, how ever, it's not as OP and annoying as AMS that can be chained off Scramble at least once every 15 seconds or so.. :rolleyes:

    And the flaming begins... where to start...

    Well, regardless of the career launching it and the debuffs, it's practically a one-shot, and it is NOT hard to hit things consistently when people are playing in groups and there are carriers involved, and you know it.

    Second, pretty sure AMS shares immunity effect with SS now and you cannot be affected by either until the last has had 30 seconds of clear time so that argument is mute. The fact that you would even say that a ONE-SHOT is not as OP as a SCRAMBLE is just ridiculous. And AMS is cleansible with ST, anyways. Pretty sure you can't cleanse dead, chief.

    You just just don't want your secret super toy taken away or given to the opposing faction. The truth probably is as soon as feds get this, it will get balanced, so lets put it in the next box and let it happen.

    **edited for spelling**
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Arbitre wrote:
    And the flaming begins... where to start...

    Well, regardless of the career launching it and the debuffs, it's practically a one-shot, and it is NOT hard to hit things consistently when people are playing in groups and there are carriers involved, and you know it.

    Second, pretty sure AMS shares immunity effect with SS now and you cannot be affected by either until the last has had 30 seconds of clear time so that argument is mute. The fact that you would even say that a ONE-SHOT is not as OP as a SCRAMBLE is just ridiculous. And AMS is cleansible with ST, anyways. Pretty sure you can't cleanse dead, chief.

    You just just don't want your secret super toy taken away or given to the opposing faction. The truth probably is as soon as feds get this, it will get balanced, so lets put it in the next box and let it happen.

    **edited for spelling**

    Well it was never 30 sec it was bugged and the Immunity would start 5 sec after you got hit with it even if you didnt clear it yet. and its not 30 sec anymore they changed it to 20. And you can Cleanse Dead it called the respawn button.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I'm pretty sure disagreeing with a particular view point is not the same as flaming.

    Also, one shot is a misnomer. Especially since this particular one shot requires multiple buffs, excellent timing, some luck and 3-4 other targets before it connects for a hit like the one reported.

    Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible that I just haven't been hit with this before. Normally though, I'm back to the forums pretty quickly to point out that I'm unhappy with a particular mechanic (shuttle pets, siphon pets, perma holds, drains, phaser procs, etc). If someone can demonstrate easily replicable and indefensible critical results then I'll jump on board the nerf train. So far I've not seen the big deal. Maybe I've just been lucky.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Arbitre wrote:

    You just just don't want your secret super toy taken away or given to the opposing faction. The truth probably is as soon as feds get this, it will get balanced, so lets put it in the next box and let it happen.

    **edited for spelling**

    They had already pre-emptively complained back when it was due for release and had it nerfed once.
    Until EmoJoe discovered its buffable by tac abilities, no one used it till recently at all.
    Whats the CD on it? Does it allow for constant use?

    If its broke its broke, and they can fix it when they fix they fix the Point Defense System.
    Unfortuantely it will go back to being ignored if the only way to make it effective is via tac buffing and it sucks for every other class that uses it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Jsimon22 wrote: »
    And you can Cleanse Dead it called the respawn button.

    So one shot dead, respawn, working as intended, huh? When you're talking about arena's, it's a big balance issue, which is where most people who want to be competitive are concerned about.
    SteveHale wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure disagreeing with a particular view point is not the same as flaming.

    Also, one shot is a misnomer. Especially since this particular one shot requires multiple buffs, excellent timing, some luck and 3-4 other targets before it connects for a hit like the one reported.

    Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible that I just haven't been hit with this before. Normally though, I'm back to the forums pretty quickly to point out that I'm unhappy with a particular mechanic (shuttle pets, siphon pets, perma holds, drains, phaser procs, etc). If someone can demonstrate easily replicable and indefensible critical results then I'll jump on board the nerf train. So far I've not seen the big deal. Maybe I've just been lucky.

    Copied the combat log data and the proof is in the pudding.
    deals 57727 (84748) Electrical Damage(Critical) to you with Isometric Charge.

    Buffs aside, one-shot's aren't sporting and shouldn't happen.

    Yea, you see TRIBBLE in the movies like ships scanning some asteroid, shields down, etc so it's in canon but that doesn't happen in a warzone where everyone presumably knows there are enemies about. Borg excluded... but I digress.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    They had already pre-emptively complained back when it was due for release and had it nerfed once.
    Until EmoJoe discovered its buffable by tac abilities, no one used it till recently at all.
    Whats the CD on it? Does it allow for constant use?

    If its broke its broke, and they can fix it when they fix they fix the Point Defense System.
    Unfortuantely it will go back to being ignored if the only way to make it effective is via tac buffing and it sucks for every other class that uses it.

    Whats wrong with the PDS, I've been using it and haven't seen anything getting vaporized besides fighters, mines, and the like (what its supposed to vaporize).

    The biggest change they should make would just be to normalize the damage abit more make the first three hits more powerful, while reducing the third hit.
    The issue isn't that a console can do the damage its that it can front load enough damage to one shot people when the moons align (aka rarely, but entirely possible).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    shelev wrote:
    Whats wrong with the PDS, I've been using it and haven't seen anything getting vaporized besides fighters, mines, and the like (what its supposed to vaporize).

    The biggest change they should make would just be to normalize the damage abit more make the first three hits more powerful, while reducing the third hit.
    The issue isn't that a console can do the damage its that it can front load enough damage to one shot people when the moons align (aka rarely, but entirely possible).

    If buffed properly the PDS can do 600+ damage a hit for as many strikes as it can crank out easily reaching 6000+ total damage in a single volley. making it far better than any turret or the pre-order PDS. A poor-mans DHC is you will....
    There is nothing anymore wrong with it than the Isometric charge, just all in how well its used and buffed, but if they are gonna start re-balancing things based on how they can be buffed by a tac toon in a best case scenario then it needs a pass as well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Arbitre wrote:
    So one shot dead, respawn, working as intended, huh? When you're talking about arena's, it's a big balance issue, which is where most people who want to be competitive are concerned about.



    Copied the combat log data and the proof is in the pudding.
    deals 57727 (84748) Electrical Damage(Critical) to you with Isometric Charge.

    Buffs aside, one-shot's aren't sporting and shouldn't happen.

    Yea, you see TRIBBLE in the movies like ships scanning some asteroid, shields down, etc so it's in canon but that doesn't happen in a warzone where everyone presumably knows there are enemies about. Borg excluded... but I digress.
    Also, one shot is a misnomer. Especially since this particular one shot requires multiple buffs, excellent timing, some luck and 3-4 other targets before it connects for a hit like the one reported.

    The "evidence" presented is self serving and incomplete.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Arbitre wrote:
    So one shot dead, respawn, working as intended, huh? When you're talking about arena's, it's a big balance issue, which is where most people who want to be competitive are concerned about.



    Copied the combat log data and the proof is in the pudding.
    deals 57727 (84748) Electrical Damage(Critical) to you with Isometric Charge.

    Buffs aside, one-shot's aren't sporting and shouldn't happen.

    Yea, you see TRIBBLE in the movies like ships scanning some asteroid, shields down, etc so it's in canon but that doesn't happen in a warzone where everyone presumably knows there are enemies about. Borg excluded... but I digress.


    Well from reading this thread its not most people its just you who thinks this consoles is a balance issue. And we are not all BOP capts tryin to cover up our "secret super toy". And escorts one-shoting people has been around for a lot longer then this console.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    SteveHale wrote: »
    The "evidence" presented is self serving and incomplete.

    No, you just refuse to acknowledge the numbers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Tricobalt torpedoes need a nerf. They do entirely too much damage to the target upon detonation.
    Here is an example from sonicshower's "signange"

    [Combat (Self)] Your High Yield Tricobalt Explosion I deals 80811 (89518) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Logimo.

    Look at the numbers!!!! LOOOOOOOOK!!!!!!!!!

    Thank Kahless its only when somebody buffs them , times it well and gets a lucky crit, much like the Isometric Charge, PSW, BO, TBR, FBP or any other lucky, fully buffed attack from a tactical toon.

    Now if players where doing this sort of damage all the time, we may have an issue.

    hELL, i'M GOING TO BUY ONE NOW!!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Arbitre wrote:
    No, you just refuse to acknowledge the numbers.

    Get a hundred samples under a variety of conditions, and then we'll talk.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Naevius wrote:
    Get a hundred samples under a variety of conditions, and then we'll talk.

    i DON'T CARE. i'M GONNA BUY TWELVE!!! FIll up every console slot I have on my BortasQu and keep two for spares. I shall rule PVP!!! Rule I tell you!!!!!
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!


    I'll run it right behind my tac buffed TBR, follow up it with a tac buffed FBR, throw a Tricobalt torp into the mix, Cloak and decloak quickly, press my OP Iwin pawn button and rule!!!!!!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    Tricobalt torpedoes need a nerf. They do entirely too much damage to the target upon detonation.
    Here is an example from sonicshower's "signange"

    [Combat (Self)] Your High Yield Tricobalt Explosion I deals 80811 (89518) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Logimo.

    Look at the numbers!!!! LOOOOOOOOK!!!!!!!!!

    Thank Kahless its only when somebody buffs them , times it well and gets a lucky crit, much like the Isometric Charge, PSW, BO, TBR, FBP or any other lucky, fully buffed attack from a tactical toon.

    Now if players where doing this sort of damage all the time, we may have an issue.

    hELL, i'M GOING TO BUY ONE NOW!!!!!


    Hey bro, why don't you learn game mechanics and realize that the Iso Charge BYPASSES SHIELDS and can't be resisted or countered in any way.

    Thats the deal with Iso Charge, it will randomly "sometimes" just go "oops you die now" and there isn't a damn thing ANYONE can do about it.
    You can't shoot the big slow HY torp coming your way, you can't stack resists, you can't make sure to keep up a shield/facing... NOTHING can be done to better your odds of surviving the "death touch" of that "lucky" Iso Charge.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    i DON'T CARE. i'M GONNA BUY TWELVE!!! FIll up every console slot I have on my BortasQu and keep two for spares. I shall rule PVP!!! Rule I tell you!!!!!
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHa!!!!


    I'll run it right behind my tac buffed TBR, follow up it with a tac buffed FBR, throw a Tricobalt torp into the mix, Cloak and decloak quickly, press my OP Iwin pawn button and rule!!!!!!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    :D Go Roach!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    oUCH, NOW i GOT A HEADACHE. No more 4th cup of coffee in the morning........

    Random oops you die. Sounds like a lucky crit hit to me, backed by a lot of pre-buffing.
    Something that happens from time to time.
    Slap the Iso on a non-tac toon vessels and tell me what it does to the target.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I got killed by it.. now nerf it.

    Get over it feds. How long has this thing been out and how few have cried over it? *raspberries* :-P

    Get rid or your little auto turret and we get rid of our ISO charge. ( which I have bought and rarely use because to me it is a waste of a console space )
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    vinru821 wrote: »
    I got killed by it.. now nerf it.

    Get over it feds. How long has this thing been out and how few have cried over it? *raspberries* :-P

    Get rid or your little auto turret and we get rid of our ISO charge. ( which I have bought and rarely use because to me it is a waste of a console space )

    Just make both available by cash box, then. Shouldn't make a difference to you.
    Roach wrote: »
    Tricobalt torpedoes need a nerf. They do entirely too much damage to the target upon detonation.
    Here is an example from sonicshower's "signange"

    [Combat (Self)] Your High Yield Tricobalt Explosion I deals 80811 (89518) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Logimo.

    Look at the numbers!!!! LOOOOOOOOK!!!!!!!!!

    Thank Kahless its only when somebody buffs them , times it well and gets a lucky crit, much like the Isometric Charge, PSW, BO, TBR, FBP or any other lucky, fully buffed attack from a tactical toon.

    Now if players where doing this sort of damage all the time, we may have an issue.

    hELL, i'M GOING TO BUY ONE NOW!!!!!

    Off topic. This discussion is about isometric.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    vinru821 wrote: »
    I got killed by it.. now nerf it.

    Get over it feds. How long has this thing been out and how few have cried over it? *raspberries* :-P

    Get rid or your little auto turret and we get rid of our ISO charge. ( which I have bought and rarely use because to me it is a waste of a console space )

    I don't give to ****s about what kills me, ISOMETERIC CHARGE HAS NEVER ONE SHOTTED ME PERSONALLY.

    The issue is one of balance, its a simple fact that fully buffed an Iso Charge can take a VA tier ship from full to dead, INSTANTLY. No need for a downed facing, no need for shield damage period. No way to resist it or reduce the damage.
    You simply go "hooray I'm fully alive!" to "lulz I died" without ONE DAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

    How does that compare to the PDS which even in the worst case scenario (which doesn't exist) could one shot you from full shields/hull. Well for starters you could stack resists, try to RSP it (since its a multi-hit attack), try to make sure you are running EPTS, use BFI+doffs... The list goes one. There are plenty of ways to combat the "potential threat" of a super broken PDS... which by the way DOESN'T EVEN EXIST! But if for some reason it did, YOU COULD FIGHT IT, unlike Iso Charge.

    Iso Charge is super random and most of the time its just "lol that tickles" or "stupid charge bypassing shields D: ". Though when fully buffed it has the potential to ONE SHOT a ship full to dead in an instant. WITH NO WAY TO PREVENT IT.

    THIS IT THE ONLY PLAYER ABILITY IN THE GAME CAPABLE OF THIS.

    How can you argue that being able to one shot things, even if rarely, is balanced?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    vinru821 wrote: »
    I got killed by it.. now nerf it.

    Get over it feds. How long has this thing been out and how few have cried over it? *raspberries* :-P

    Get rid or your little auto turret and we get rid of our ISO charge. ( which I have bought and rarely use because to me it is a waste of a console space )

    Exactly. Until it was widely known to be buffable by tac abilities, nobody used it. ever.
    Before the fednerf train runs it down more testing needs to be done on wether its an always up sort of effect from buffing, just a tac buff thing, or if its the lucky high crit that happens on occassion like one gets with the Tricobalt torps or PSW3 that is well timed and really lucky.
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