Feeling somewhat disappointed to say the least. I went to great personal effort to organize a PvP-based tournament. Spent hours, no weeks trying to put together a tournament I thought would promote and attract players to PvP.
If PvP fails in the game, its because WE let it. We would rather rant about what it isnt, or about the latest dev. blasphemy that has hit Holodeck than step-up and support someone whos just trying to make an effort.
Its so much easier to sit on the sideline and watch another fail at something, and then throw insults about them on a public channel, than roll-up ones own sleeve and take the risk of failing. You never are going to know how good you really are, until you go out, and face failure.
There are numerous reasons why STO Frontlines was fighting an uphill battle. I was aware of that when I started. But in the final analysis, the diehard PvP protagonists didnt lift a finger to see something PvP-related success.
I know that I am not very popular. I tend to stand up for the little guy, but I was hoping people could be mature enough to set aside their differences for the sake of the future of PvP. Those of you that did come out and support me, "Kudu's to you and God bless."
Feeling somewhat disappointed to say the least. I went to great personal effort to organize a PvP-based tournament. Spent hours, no weeks trying to put together a tournament I thought would promote and attract players to PvP.
If PvP fails in the game, its because WE let it. We would rather rant about what it isnt, or about the latest dev. blasphemy that has hit Holodeck than step-up and support someone whos just trying to make an effort.
Its so much easier to sit on the sideline and watch another fail at something, and then throw insults about them on a public channel, than roll-up ones own sleeve and take the risk of failing. You never are going to know how good you really are, until you go out, and face failure.
There are numerous reasons why STO Frontlines was fighting an uphill battle. I was aware of that when I started. But in the final analysis, the diehard PvP protagonists didnt lift a finger to see something PvP-related success.
I know that I am not very popular. I tend to stand up for the little guy, but I was hoping people could be mature enough to set aside their differences for the sake of the future of PvP. Those of you that did come out and support me, "Kudu's to you and God bless."
its not that the fleets wouldnt support it, its not that it wasnt a good idea.
this games pvp just isnt fun. the last best hope (imo. ) was the TSI funday just before the resist changes. but even that failed because of the resist changes keep ur rules handy. there wiull be a time and place for it.
Feeling somewhat disappointed to say the least. I went to great personal effort to organize a PvP-based tournament. Spent hours, no weeks trying to put together a tournament I thought would promote and attract players to PvP.
If PvP fails in the game, its because WE let it. We would rather rant about what it isnt, or about the latest dev. blasphemy that has hit Holodeck than step-up and support someone whos just trying to make an effort.
Its so much easier to sit on the sideline and watch another fail at something, and then throw insults about them on a public channel, than roll-up ones own sleeve and take the risk of failing. You never are going to know how good you really are, until you go out, and face failure.
There are numerous reasons why STO Frontlines was fighting an uphill battle. I was aware of that when I started. But in the final analysis, the diehard PvP protagonists didnt lift a finger to see something PvP-related success.
I know that I am not very popular. I tend to stand up for the little guy, but I was hoping people could be mature enough to set aside their differences for the sake of the future of PvP. Those of you that did come out and support me, "Kudu's to you and God bless."
Have you ever considered that the damage to PvP in this game has been too great for it to ever repair?
There are a lot of factors that contribute to the degree of success for any event in a game. I know you worked hard to try to pull things together. I'm sorry it didn't work out as you'd hoped. I do hope you aren't taking it too personally though.
I have a lot of respect for the folks who try to pull things together for the community. The TSI Funday, Panda Cubs training channel, all these great guides full of builds and advice are incredible. I hope everyone will continue to try. Maybe things will work out better in future attempts?
I am currently not interested in participating in PvP much.
I also was never interested in organizing PvP related stuff other than organizing my own posts or my char's inventory. I don't expect or even want other players to do such organization - not that I don't appreciate it, but I think the game should offer tools for this to make it a lot easier than it is.
I was afraid that the STO frontiers thing would end up being disappointing to you, but I couldn't bring it over me to tell you (and I am not sure why you should listen to me anyway.)
I think, 1-2 years ago you may have had a chance with it. The community is too small now to support any event of this kind. You need a lot more active PvP fleets and PvP players than STO has now.
I think we're all waiting for Gozer's miracle cure for PvP. I am at least.
They just do not care about the players. Ask players that have been around for over a years. Cryptic/PW will tell people anything to keep them playing but fix PVP? Forget it. There is always a reason why it did not make it into the game but if you wait we will fix it.
sorry dk i personally failed to help you out. i had some forgotten about business to attend to saturday
do npot despair, all of your work can be re used one day if the situation calls for it. lets see what season 6 brungfs and if there is need/room for private player run campaign/tournament scenarios
I'm not a hardcore PvPer but I sympathize with you. Maybe you could work with Bran Flakes in setting this up on a more formal basis?
I am sure there is interest and that it can be made to work in the future. Of course, I also think there are many PvPers that just like to destroy pugs with their premades and feel good about themselves. They need to be more like the Hirogen or Klingon and value a worthy opponent....;)
People don't really want to do tournaments when the game is this broken. Winning isn't as sweat, losing has a more bitter taste, and the general feeling changes to one where bringing more cheese becomes more important than actual skill.
If PvP balance were in a better state, I would have loved to participate in your tournament.
I am at fault. I lost track of the event during the course of my Saturday dealing with a RL issue that popped up and had to be handled.
I am sorry I missed it, as I was looking forward to it.
What was STO Frontlines, and why did I not know about it? If there was a Space PvP tournament that I missed I am going to kick myself really hard.
I also think there wasn't enough publicity. Maybe when Season 6 hits, and more people come back to play, get a lot of big announcements, get BranFlakes to sticky a thread, or something.
Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement. It means a lot because, not only am I fond of you all, but most of us grew-up in STO together , but I really enjoy each of your quirks and personalities you bring to the game.
The thing about me is, I'm like a rabid ol' dog. Once I latch onto something, I rarely let go. Just backing-up for a running start, thats all.
At least I warned you ahead of time that I would not be able to participate Saturday due to obligations. (Maybe you should have also "Advertised" it for STOked to get more support?) And so what if you maybe didn't get the participation you wanted saturday? You set it up to be an Ongoing thing, not just a one shot tournament right? Then just either re-schedule the previous event, or extend the schedule to make it a week long event to give everyone interested time to participate.
Then after that plan the next event and continue on. I liked the Idea you had going for it. And I can see the potential of it until we get to Season 7 (Because quite honestly, Season 6 will be too early IMO for the PVP Changes to bare fruit) which should hopefully be a bigger pick up of PVP once Gozer has had his time to Iron out what he is able to give us from Season 6 and beyond.
At least I warned you ahead of time that I would not be able to participate Saturday due to obligations. (Maybe you should have also "Advertised" it for STOked to get more support?) And so what if you maybe didn't get the participation you wanted saturday? You set it up to be an Ongoing thing, not just a one shot tournament right? Then just either re-schedule the previous event, or extend the schedule to make it a week long event to give everyone interested time to participate.
Then after that plan the next event and continue on. I liked the Idea you had going for it. And I can see the potential of it until we get to Season 7 (Because quite honestly, Season 6 will be too early IMO for the PVP Changes to bare fruit) which should hopefully be a bigger pick up of PVP once Gozer has had his time to Iron out what he is able to give us from Season 6 and beyond.
Thanks bud. Am not giving up on the idea for sure!
I would have loved to participate. Honestly , I am new to PvP and starting to enjoy the community of helpful folk, etc etc. It seemed like the only way to sign up for your event was to go to your website and sign up for the forums of a fleet I am not involved with in any way.
If perhaps , as a means of organizing , you just said HEY !! ALL INTERESTED OFFICERs , MEET HERE at such and such a time. We will be using the In Game Channel "Organized PvP" to coordinate things the day of the event. I just wasn't willing to sign up for yet another website, just to participate.
Also, RL kind of ambushed me and took me hiking with friends that day, but I would have loved to participate.
We tend to be quite literal about PVP because there's not much else to do that I know of. There's only so many times I can play the same few maps in a day before I get bored and do something else, ironically, the forums as a whole are so much more entertaining then the current game that time tends to be split 50/50! I haven't PVP'd for as long as a lot of others, but it's plain even to my eyes that PVP has been shafted since the beginning. And as those that do PVP are more technically minded them the rest of the playerbase, they're passionate to see their time not wasted.
But you only have to look at the thread names that have been made in the last fewe weeks (since Gozer started his weekly updates) to know how much more POSITIVE the PVP forums were from before.
IMO the OP is reading a bit too much into this and needs to stop rabbiting on about his Frontlines project >.> I was lead to assume it was some sort of video project from that PM you sent me, I wasen't aware it had any baring at all on PVP.
I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well, I was a bit gutted when I realised it was the same Saturday as Collectormania, but don't consider my absence this time a lack of interest in general.
I'm sorry dude, seriously, I mean it with no sarcasm. I have alot to do during the day on saturdays, & it is extremely hit or miss I'd even make it. I think your Frontlines project is an excellent idea & its sad that a community member has to implement something like this on their own because the devs have let PVP stagnate for so long. Its very telling that there is a dev that comes into the forums to ask us "if these dry bones can live" when a project like this gets largely ignored. I WANT this to succeed. I don't care about EC, rewards or a seat on some council. We've all been PVPing without that anyway. I want this to succeed because it brings some meaning to STO's convoluted storyline. It gives PVP some relevance to the game. And it sets a goal to aim for. Many people may not want leaderborads & the like, but how will you know how good you really are. I'm tired of picking my targets by their fleet tags just to test myself. I want to know who the best currently are so I can blow them up (...in the name of fun, don't flame me yet). The Frontlines project should be a Community Event (geez, where's Branflakes when you need him...).
Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement. It means a lot because, not only am I fond of you all, but most of us grew-up in STO together , but I really enjoy each of your quirks and personalities you bring to the game.
The thing about me is, I'm like a rabid ol' dog. Once I latch onto something, I rarely let go. Just backing-up for a running start, thats all.
Ill be back
hang in there wildman. I work on Saturdays so I could never make those events. I am just now starting to get back into STO simply due to the Star Bases that are being introduced with all the things promised. Lets keep our fingers crossed.
Feeling somewhat disappointed to say the least. I went to great personal effort to organize a PvP-based tournament. Spent hours, no weeks trying to put together a tournament I thought would promote and attract players to PvP.
If PvP fails in the game, its because WE let it. We would rather rant about what it isnt, or about the latest dev. blasphemy that has hit Holodeck than step-up and support someone whos just trying to make an effort.
Its so much easier to sit on the sideline and watch another fail at something, and then throw insults about them on a public channel, than roll-up ones own sleeve and take the risk of failing. You never are going to know how good you really are, until you go out, and face failure.
There are numerous reasons why STO Frontlines was fighting an uphill battle. I was aware of that when I started. But in the final analysis, the diehard PvP protagonists didnt lift a finger to see something PvP-related success.
I know that I am not very popular. I tend to stand up for the little guy, but I was hoping people could be mature enough to set aside their differences for the sake of the future of PvP. Those of you that did come out and support me, "Kudu's to you and God bless."
DK, I think the reason this never took off, is because well... there's no real teams left in sto other than a very small handful, most of those teams still have very conflicting schedules, I was interested but life (unfortuantely) intervened and I couldn't seem to find a good chunk of my buddies either.
The last tournament we tried also completely fell apart, because cryptic did something incredibly stupid right in the middle of the season, and then the usual drama went on and people left in droves.
If it's any consolation to you, I can't even get a good Shuttle Wars going anymore. Which is sad, because that was really some of the most fun you could have and keep your clothes on.
DK, I think the reason this never took off, is because well... there's no real teams left in sto other than a very small handful, most of those teams still have very conflicting schedules, I was interested but life (unfortuantely) intervened and I couldn't seem to find a good chunk of my buddies either.
The last tournament we tried also completely fell apart, because cryptic did something incredibly stupid right in the middle of the season, and then the usual drama went on and people left in droves.
If it's any consolation to you, I can't even get a good Shuttle Wars going anymore. Which is sad, because that was really some of the most fun you could have and keep your clothes on.
That or... or...
...or maybe I'll finish that somewhere I'm less likely to get banned. Like OPvP or 4chan. Well, I dunno about 4Chan, they can be kinda strict over there.
Anyway, PvP sucks in STO. I mean it's enjoyable, and fun, and there's some really spiffy things about it.
I like PvP in STO, both Ker'rat and arenas (I'm personally quite deficient in the latter, and only passable in the former, for a myriad of reasons but enjoy both nonetheless).
But PvP sucks in STO.
It sucks for the new guy who's got a better chance of winning the Lockbox Lottery when coming straight out of PvE, doubly so if he's entering the ques for the first time at VA.
It sucks for the tinkerer whose seen every nifty oddball ship he's made to work get turned on its head every time a new patch comes out that brings a new system up to functional status when all the abilities it affected were balanced around that system not working as intended.
It sucks for the vet who's seen game balance to be stuck in the "two steps forward, hop off ledge" cycle that constantly seems bent on reducing the interesting rock-paper-scissors game play that PvP hinges to a situation where viable, not just effective but specifically viable, team strategies (and I do mean strategies, not tactics) are whittled down to a handful of viable choices despite the breadth and depth of powers that exist in game.
It's not like the above must exist until the end of time. I mean, the game already has the basics built right into the basic ship and Captain classes (Tactical/Escort, Science/Science, Engineer/Cruiser), with interesting things happening when you just change the captain/ship pairing, which means straight off the bat you've got a huge leg up on having space for interesting choices.
I think I have more I want to say/ramble about regarding PvP and game mechanics and tall blonds in long jackets with massive portfolios... but it's almost 8 AM my time and long past when I should have gone to sleep.
In conclusion, you're not responsible for PvP not being bigger, the flaws with the system are what have kept it from drawing in more people, not the PvP community who, in my experience over the last few months, are sarcastic, cynical, occasionally smart-mouthed, a little short-tempered, and helpful to a fault. You're a damn sight more inviting to be around than a few different places I've wandered through, that's for sure.
My experience from playing around 10 years DAoC (imho most sucessfull PvP in a MMORPG) with breaks in other MMORPGs which also offered PvP is that PvP mostly fail because of the game setting, not because the player base. The player base mostly is too heterogenous to cooperate together. The game designer has to work out an system that is capable of controling and managing different play styles.
In DAoC this was given by things like:
1) 3 facton system
2) open-pvp with global objectives and reward system
3) easily obtainable equipment and dimishing return of rare equipment.
Without these 3 points, you cannot create a PvP enviroment in that everyone from the causal to the pro gamer can participate.
Comments
its not that the fleets wouldnt support it, its not that it wasnt a good idea.
this games pvp just isnt fun. the last best hope (imo. ) was the TSI funday just before the resist changes. but even that failed because of the resist changes keep ur rules handy. there wiull be a time and place for it.
Have you ever considered that the damage to PvP in this game has been too great for it to ever repair?
I have a lot of respect for the folks who try to pull things together for the community. The TSI Funday, Panda Cubs training channel, all these great guides full of builds and advice are incredible. I hope everyone will continue to try. Maybe things will work out better in future attempts?
I also was never interested in organizing PvP related stuff other than organizing my own posts or my char's inventory. I don't expect or even want other players to do such organization - not that I don't appreciate it, but I think the game should offer tools for this to make it a lot easier than it is.
I was afraid that the STO frontiers thing would end up being disappointing to you, but I couldn't bring it over me to tell you (and I am not sure why you should listen to me anyway.)
I think, 1-2 years ago you may have had a chance with it. The community is too small now to support any event of this kind. You need a lot more active PvP fleets and PvP players than STO has now.
I think we're all waiting for Gozer's miracle cure for PvP. I am at least.
For some people it's not a conscious decision to not participate, but rather that it simply didn't suit them to be playing at the time...
do npot despair, all of your work can be re used one day if the situation calls for it. lets see what season 6 brungfs and if there is need/room for private player run campaign/tournament scenarios
I am sure there is interest and that it can be made to work in the future. Of course, I also think there are many PvPers that just like to destroy pugs with their premades and feel good about themselves. They need to be more like the Hirogen or Klingon and value a worthy opponent....;)
If PvP balance were in a better state, I would have loved to participate in your tournament.
I am sorry I missed it, as I was looking forward to it.
I also think there wasn't enough publicity. Maybe when Season 6 hits, and more people come back to play, get a lot of big announcements, get BranFlakes to sticky a thread, or something.
Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement. It means a lot because, not only am I fond of you all, but most of us grew-up in STO together
The thing about me is, I'm like a rabid ol' dog. Once I latch onto something, I rarely let go. Just backing-up for a running start, thats all.
Ill be back
Then after that plan the next event and continue on. I liked the Idea you had going for it. And I can see the potential of it until we get to Season 7 (Because quite honestly, Season 6 will be too early IMO for the PVP Changes to bare fruit) which should hopefully be a bigger pick up of PVP once Gozer has had his time to Iron out what he is able to give us from Season 6 and beyond.
Thanks bud. Am not giving up on the idea for sure!
If perhaps , as a means of organizing , you just said HEY !! ALL INTERESTED OFFICERs , MEET HERE at such and such a time. We will be using the In Game Channel "Organized PvP" to coordinate things the day of the event. I just wasn't willing to sign up for yet another website, just to participate.
Also, RL kind of ambushed me and took me hiking with friends that day, but I would have loved to participate.
But you only have to look at the thread names that have been made in the last fewe weeks (since Gozer started his weekly updates) to know how much more POSITIVE the PVP forums were from before.
IMO the OP is reading a bit too much into this and needs to stop rabbiting on about his Frontlines project >.> I was lead to assume it was some sort of video project from that PM you sent me, I wasen't aware it had any baring at all on PVP.
that is the options Gozer is looking at.
hang in there wildman. I work on Saturdays so I could never make those events. I am just now starting to get back into STO simply due to the Star Bases that are being introduced with all the things promised. Lets keep our fingers crossed.
DK, I think the reason this never took off, is because well... there's no real teams left in sto other than a very small handful, most of those teams still have very conflicting schedules, I was interested but life (unfortuantely) intervened and I couldn't seem to find a good chunk of my buddies either.
The last tournament we tried also completely fell apart, because cryptic did something incredibly stupid right in the middle of the season, and then the usual drama went on and people left in droves.
If it's any consolation to you, I can't even get a good Shuttle Wars going anymore. Which is sad, because that was really some of the most fun you could have and keep your clothes on.
That or... or...
...or maybe I'll finish that somewhere I'm less likely to get banned. Like OPvP or 4chan. Well, I dunno about 4Chan, they can be kinda strict over there.
Anyway, PvP sucks in STO. I mean it's enjoyable, and fun, and there's some really spiffy things about it.
I like PvP in STO, both Ker'rat and arenas (I'm personally quite deficient in the latter, and only passable in the former, for a myriad of reasons but enjoy both nonetheless).
But PvP sucks in STO.
It sucks for the new guy who's got a better chance of winning the Lockbox Lottery when coming straight out of PvE, doubly so if he's entering the ques for the first time at VA.
It sucks for the tinkerer whose seen every nifty oddball ship he's made to work get turned on its head every time a new patch comes out that brings a new system up to functional status when all the abilities it affected were balanced around that system not working as intended.
It sucks for the vet who's seen game balance to be stuck in the "two steps forward, hop off ledge" cycle that constantly seems bent on reducing the interesting rock-paper-scissors game play that PvP hinges to a situation where viable, not just effective but specifically viable, team strategies (and I do mean strategies, not tactics) are whittled down to a handful of viable choices despite the breadth and depth of powers that exist in game.
It's not like the above must exist until the end of time. I mean, the game already has the basics built right into the basic ship and Captain classes (Tactical/Escort, Science/Science, Engineer/Cruiser), with interesting things happening when you just change the captain/ship pairing, which means straight off the bat you've got a huge leg up on having space for interesting choices.
I think I have more I want to say/ramble about regarding PvP and game mechanics and tall blonds in long jackets with massive portfolios... but it's almost 8 AM my time and long past when I should have gone to sleep.
In conclusion, you're not responsible for PvP not being bigger, the flaws with the system are what have kept it from drawing in more people, not the PvP community who, in my experience over the last few months, are sarcastic, cynical, occasionally smart-mouthed, a little short-tempered, and helpful to a fault. You're a damn sight more inviting to be around than a few different places I've wandered through, that's for sure.
My experience from playing around 10 years DAoC (imho most sucessfull PvP in a MMORPG) with breaks in other MMORPGs which also offered PvP is that PvP mostly fail because of the game setting, not because the player base. The player base mostly is too heterogenous to cooperate together. The game designer has to work out an system that is capable of controling and managing different play styles.
In DAoC this was given by things like:
1) 3 facton system
2) open-pvp with global objectives and reward system
3) easily obtainable equipment and dimishing return of rare equipment.
Without these 3 points, you cannot create a PvP enviroment in that everyone from the causal to the pro gamer can participate.