It's very debatable that the danubes were nerfed. Now, you're chained.
Siphons, likewise were supposed to be adjusted by a change in mechanics. In theory there's a max amount a person can be drained that's above zero, and the lower the drain the greater the drain resistance. Also, skill changes were made that were supposed to mitigate this as well, but for some reason the resistance to NPCs is lower then the resistance to Boff abilities.
The one where instead of being 8x tractor beamed simultaneously, you're now 8x tractor beamed sequentially.
If that counts as a nerf, then they are still way, way OP. You can still be multi tractored by the pets if any of the danubes are not within 4km of each other.
The one where instead of being 8x tractor beamed simultaneously, you're now 8x tractor beamed sequentially.
If that counts as a nerf
Its a huge nerf.
Pre-nerf you could actually stop people from running away. If they allowed themselves to eat 3+ TB's they were stuck and had to tank it as best they could, or somehow get rid of the runabouts and try and get out of dodge as it were (which was possible).
Now with it being more or less limited to 1TB from a single set of runabouts you can APO/PH out of them without issue. Basically making them inherently worthless since ANYONE can escape from a single TB.
To get multiple TB's from runabouts you now need to game the system pretty hard or have multiple carriers working together in a semi-organized fashion to the point it would just be easier to have your teammates use there sci-ensigns for TB1 instead.
Pre-nerf you could actually stop people from running away. If they allowed themselves to eat 3+ TB's they were stuck and had to tank it as best they could, or somehow get rid of the runabouts and try and get out of dodge as it were (which was possible).
Now with it being more or less limited to 1TB from a single set of runabouts you can APO/PH out of them without issue. Basically making them inherently worthless since ANYONE can escape from a single TB.
To get multiple TB's from runabouts you now need to game the system pretty hard or have multiple carriers working together in a semi-organized fashion to the point it would just be easier to have your teammates use there sci-ensigns for TB1 instead.
Are you kidding? All it takes is a second tractor beam from the pets owner, or another nearby ship, or a danube that strayed away and flew back i nthe course of fighting and you're back to square one. And this is before we get to the chroniton and phaser procs somebody mentioned. And to a ship without APO and PH, they're actually even worse now.
Carriers in general are back to causing big balance issues. But the Danubes are offending on three counts.
It's very debatable that the danubes were nerfed. Now, you're chained.
Siphons, likewise were supposed to be adjusted by a change in mechanics. In theory there's a max amount a person can be drained that's above zero, and the lower the drain the greater the drain resistance. Also, skill changes were made that were supposed to mitigate this as well, but for some reason the resistance to NPCs is lower then the resistance to Boff abilities.
At max insulators, I still get all power levels set to to about 30 from siphons. Coupled with the speed at which they can be re-launched makes them completely OP. It's practically impossible to clear the spam unless you're running multiple FAW's. Basically there are so many and they spawn at such a high rate and they are such high priority targets that even WITH MAX INSULATORS it's not feasible to focus on the carrier.
I can't believe this hasn't been addressed yet.
Honestly, I barely queue FvK anymore because of those alone. I have no complaints really about any other klingon builds.
Are you kidding? All it takes is a second tractor beam from the pets owner, or another nearby ship, or a danube that strayed away and flew back i nthe course of fighting and you're back to square one. And this is before we get to the chroniton and phaser procs somebody mentioned. And to a ship without APO and PH, they're actually even worse now.
Carriers in general are back to causing big balance issues. But the Danubes are offending on three counts.
I would argue that no competitive pvp player (or very few) in a cat carrier would run a tractor beam on a boff. Or anything that really needs you to point at your target so that argument is basically mute. Danubes are about where they need to be right now. You don't see them as the only pet people use anymore. Before it was 8x danubes all day, now you see 4+ another pet usually, which is what they should be in a balanced state.
I would argue that no competitive pvp player (or very few) in a cat carrier would run a tractor beam on a boff. Or anything that really needs you to point at your target so that argument is basically mute. Danubes are about where they need to be right now. You don't see them as the only pet people use anymore. Before it was 8x danubes all day, now you see 4+ another pet usually, which is what they should be in a balanced state.
Firing a tractor beam is like eating a box of chocolates...
...both can, and will, come flying out of your *** at nearly relativistic velocity.
At max insulators, I still get all power levels set to to about 30 from siphons. Coupled with the speed at which they can be re-launched makes them completely OP. It's practically impossible to clear the spam unless you're running multiple FAW's. Basically there are so many and they spawn at such a high rate and they are such high priority targets that even WITH MAX INSULATORS it's not feasible to focus on the carrier.
I can't believe this hasn't been addressed yet.
Honestly, I barely queue FvK anymore because of those alone. I have no complaints really about any other klingon builds.
I would argue that no competitive pvp player (or very few) in a cat carrier would run a tractor beam on a boff. Or anything that really needs you to point at your target so that argument is basically mute. Danubes are about where they need to be right now. You don't see them as the only pet people use anymore. Before it was 8x danubes all day, now you see 4+ another pet usually, which is what they should be in a balanced state.
My point wasn't that the siphon balancing pass was a good one, just that it happened. Just like the danube pass happened, but isn't very effective either. I'm also a bit puzzled why by design player counter skills like power insulators are more effective vs player boff abilities than NPC abilities.
Pets that spam debuffs like phaser procs, cronts, and tbs in mass aren't balanced. Just like adv orion intercepters and adv frigs aren't balance. They have cront debuffs, spam weapon/engine power reduction/ace beam and the adv frig also has HY trics. It's like they nerfed the TRIBBLE out of sci boff abilities and gave them in spirit to carriers via pets, but with the ability to apply them more often and to more targets.
Fyi, you don't need to "point at your target" to use tbs. You just have to be in the tb range.
I don't think that any of these two are "overpowered". They are just useful for specific circumstances, but that is true for any weapon.
For example, the Danubes are little threat to anything but escorts and raiders. And the energy siphon drones can be easily countered by, for example, EWP.
To say that any of these is "overpowered" is just like stating "escorts are overpowered", because they are the bst DPS machines.
I don't think that any of these two are "overpowered". They are just useful for specific circumstances, but that is true for any weapon.
For example, the Danubes are little threat to anything but escorts and raiders. And the energy siphon drones can be easily countered by, for example, EWP.
To say that any of these is "overpowered" is just like stating "escorts are overpowered", because they are the bst DPS machines.
I'm calling them OP because there are too many to clear, they are too great a threat to ignore, and cause too much of a power swing.
My opinion is that they need balancing. It's just that. My opinion. It doesn't "feel" right.
I suggest reducing the number of these launched per click, increasing the effect and hull power of each (so as to not reduce optimal conditions), and increasing the cooldown on launching them so that losing them is a bigger deal. Right now, it's too easy to replace them all nearly instantaneously.
Ya making them fire sequentially is a buff 100%... another example of Cryptic having NO idea what the hell they are doing. lol
Anyone that thinks otherwise also has no idea what they are doing.
However I don't much care really... they have never really bothered me outside of 4 carriers worth of them... Target the real issue "carrier" and remove all the spam in one good clean burst.
Y[...]
I suggest reducing the number of these launched per click, increasing the effect and hull power of each (so as to not reduce optimal conditions), and increasing the cooldown on launching them so that losing them is a bigger deal. Right now, it's too easy to replace them all nearly instantaneously.
Okay, I can see that making sense, but that would make them on par with the Vo'Quv's BoPs.
I feel like the holds from the Danubes are significantly worse than the Klink's BoP pet, and they are more dangerous versus something other than an Escort (which is more likely to run multiple movement buffs). Disables, especially the Siphon pets, or unclearable chroniton procs are out of control.
Ya making them fire sequentially is a buff 100%... another example of Cryptic having NO idea what the hell they are doing. lol
I think the problem before was having more than 3 tractors made it so that APO/PH would no longer render you immune. At least it is counterable now as the only source of the hold. If other players are also tractoring you that is different.
I did some PVP yesterday and there were two carriers on the opposing team. They were pretty close together so I hit an aux battery and did a grav well in the middle of them. All the craft they had just launched died instantly.
I did some PVP yesterday and there were two carriers on the opposing team. They were pretty close together so I hit an aux battery and did a grav well in the middle of them. All the craft they had just launched died instantly.
One green flight deck doff reduces the launch rate of the pets by 10%. The base rate for ad frig KDF side is approx 50 sec. The rate for fighters is approx 24 sec. So a player launches an ad frig and cooldown reduced to 45 sec for the ad frig and approx 22 sec for fighters. Player launches fighters and cooldown reduced to 20 sec while advanced reduced to 40 sec.
A player used gw gets lucky and all the pets are in it's range and die. Gw goes on cooldown.
20 sec later player launches fighters advanced reduced to 15 sec fighters at 22 sec. 15 sec later ad launch, and fighters reduce to 5 sec. ad @ 45 sec. Then fighters launched ad @ 35 sec. Gw still on cooldown and I haven't factored aux levels in and only talking about 1 green doff.
In otherwords you won't be able to keep up even if under ideal situations you catch the carrier pilot launching his/her pets w/GW. I wouldn't count a players mistakes/foolishness of having carriers fly w/in a single GW's event horizen as a counter either.
Fyi, ad frigs KDF side have over 30k hp hulls. For both my tac & sci captains it's more then their BoPs Hull hps. I don't see a single GW killing those w/o further factors coming into play.
Yeah, I'm gonna be experimenting with projectile weapon doffs using photon and tricobalts to see what kind of Tricobalt ROF I can get going. Using one to drag the other down strikes me as an unintentional side affect.
Yeah, I'm gonna be experimenting with projectile weapon doffs using photon and tricobalts to see what kind of Tricobalt ROF I can get going. Using one to drag the other down strikes me as an unintentional side affect.
It seems to be even worse then I thought. Instead of the 25 sec cooldown being reduced by 2.5 sec, it appears it's reduced by 5 seconds which would be 10% of the 50 sec cooldown. Again this is just 1 green doff.
Yep, I can definitely confirm that's the case on my RSV. The cooldown on the back Tric is reduced by the forward-firing Quantums with Projectile DOffs.
Comments
Siphons, likewise were supposed to be adjusted by a change in mechanics. In theory there's a max amount a person can be drained that's above zero, and the lower the drain the greater the drain resistance. Also, skill changes were made that were supposed to mitigate this as well, but for some reason the resistance to NPCs is lower then the resistance to Boff abilities.
The one where instead of being 8x tractor beamed simultaneously, you're now 8x tractor beamed sequentially.
If that counts as a nerf, then they are still way, way OP. You can still be multi tractored by the pets if any of the danubes are not within 4km of each other.
Its a huge nerf.
Pre-nerf you could actually stop people from running away. If they allowed themselves to eat 3+ TB's they were stuck and had to tank it as best they could, or somehow get rid of the runabouts and try and get out of dodge as it were (which was possible).
Now with it being more or less limited to 1TB from a single set of runabouts you can APO/PH out of them without issue. Basically making them inherently worthless since ANYONE can escape from a single TB.
To get multiple TB's from runabouts you now need to game the system pretty hard or have multiple carriers working together in a semi-organized fashion to the point it would just be easier to have your teammates use there sci-ensigns for TB1 instead.
Also, lol @ 8xtractor, 8xchroniton and 8xphaser proc pets being 'basically worthless'.
Are you kidding? All it takes is a second tractor beam from the pets owner, or another nearby ship, or a danube that strayed away and flew back i nthe course of fighting and you're back to square one. And this is before we get to the chroniton and phaser procs somebody mentioned. And to a ship without APO and PH, they're actually even worse now.
Carriers in general are back to causing big balance issues. But the Danubes are offending on three counts.
At max insulators, I still get all power levels set to to about 30 from siphons. Coupled with the speed at which they can be re-launched makes them completely OP. It's practically impossible to clear the spam unless you're running multiple FAW's. Basically there are so many and they spawn at such a high rate and they are such high priority targets that even WITH MAX INSULATORS it's not feasible to focus on the carrier.
I can't believe this hasn't been addressed yet.
Honestly, I barely queue FvK anymore because of those alone. I have no complaints really about any other klingon builds.
I would argue that no competitive pvp player (or very few) in a cat carrier would run a tractor beam on a boff. Or anything that really needs you to point at your target so that argument is basically mute. Danubes are about where they need to be right now. You don't see them as the only pet people use anymore. Before it was 8x danubes all day, now you see 4+ another pet usually, which is what they should be in a balanced state.
Firing a tractor beam is like eating a box of chocolates...
...both can, and will, come flying out of your *** at nearly relativistic velocity.
My point wasn't that the siphon balancing pass was a good one, just that it happened. Just like the danube pass happened, but isn't very effective either. I'm also a bit puzzled why by design player counter skills like power insulators are more effective vs player boff abilities than NPC abilities.
Pets that spam debuffs like phaser procs, cronts, and tbs in mass aren't balanced. Just like adv orion intercepters and adv frigs aren't balance. They have cront debuffs, spam weapon/engine power reduction/ace beam and the adv frig also has HY trics. It's like they nerfed the TRIBBLE out of sci boff abilities and gave them in spirit to carriers via pets, but with the ability to apply them more often and to more targets.
Fyi, you don't need to "point at your target" to use tbs. You just have to be in the tb range.
For example, the Danubes are little threat to anything but escorts and raiders. And the energy siphon drones can be easily countered by, for example, EWP.
To say that any of these is "overpowered" is just like stating "escorts are overpowered", because they are the bst DPS machines.
You're right I had a brain TRIBBLE.
I'm calling them OP because there are too many to clear, they are too great a threat to ignore, and cause too much of a power swing.
My opinion is that they need balancing. It's just that. My opinion. It doesn't "feel" right.
I suggest reducing the number of these launched per click, increasing the effect and hull power of each (so as to not reduce optimal conditions), and increasing the cooldown on launching them so that losing them is a bigger deal. Right now, it's too easy to replace them all nearly instantaneously.
Anyone that thinks otherwise also has no idea what they are doing.
However I don't much care really... they have never really bothered me outside of 4 carriers worth of them... Target the real issue "carrier" and remove all the spam in one good clean burst.
Okay, I can see that making sense, but that would make them on par with the Vo'Quv's BoPs.
I think the problem before was having more than 3 tractors made it so that APO/PH would no longer render you immune. At least it is counterable now as the only source of the hold. If other players are also tractoring you that is different.
Yea, or delta's even. They launch 2 at a time and are a little tougher. I don't think they are bop tough, though I could be mistaken.
One green flight deck doff reduces the launch rate of the pets by 10%. The base rate for ad frig KDF side is approx 50 sec. The rate for fighters is approx 24 sec. So a player launches an ad frig and cooldown reduced to 45 sec for the ad frig and approx 22 sec for fighters. Player launches fighters and cooldown reduced to 20 sec while advanced reduced to 40 sec.
A player used gw gets lucky and all the pets are in it's range and die. Gw goes on cooldown.
20 sec later player launches fighters advanced reduced to 15 sec fighters at 22 sec. 15 sec later ad launch, and fighters reduce to 5 sec. ad @ 45 sec. Then fighters launched ad @ 35 sec. Gw still on cooldown and I haven't factored aux levels in and only talking about 1 green doff.
In otherwords you won't be able to keep up even if under ideal situations you catch the carrier pilot launching his/her pets w/GW. I wouldn't count a players mistakes/foolishness of having carriers fly w/in a single GW's event horizen as a counter either.
Fyi, ad frigs KDF side have over 30k hp hulls. For both my tac & sci captains it's more then their BoPs Hull hps. I don't see a single GW killing those w/o further factors coming into play.
It seems to be even worse then I thought. Instead of the 25 sec cooldown being reduced by 2.5 sec, it appears it's reduced by 5 seconds which would be 10% of the 50 sec cooldown. Again this is just 1 green doff.