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Why PvP is dead....

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited November 2012 in PvP Gameplay
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=271684

People are too worried about making their ships look pretty and copying builds from carebear NPCs then Q up and get mad when said build is TRIBBLE.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Word

    Those pretty builds work fine in PVP if they run boarding party though...right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Aldo-Raine wrote:
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=271684

    Some People are too worried about making their ships look pretty and copying builds from carebear NPCs then Q up and get mad when said build is TRIBBLE.

    Fixed that for you. I've never had an issue queing up for my fair share of abuse. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Aldo-Raine wrote:
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=271684

    People are too worried about making their ships look pretty and copying builds from carebear NPCs then Q up and get mad when said build is TRIBBLE.

    I dunno Aldo I do both at the same time, If i dont like a ship i dont pvp in it. I try and make it as pretty as possible ^^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I dunno Aldo I do both at the same time, If i dont like a ship i dont pvp in it. I try and make it as pretty as possible ^^

    You always look pretty in my book.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    How about the fact that you can't even do PvP (FvK) until you're a Commander (as Starfleet). This ****es me off.

    I'm not exactly new to the game but I haven't played it for 2 years and the game has changed quite a lot. This being one of the things I just recently noticed. I went to the Neutral Zone with my level 9 Lieutenant character to fight against other same level Klingon players but apparently this isn't possible anymore because you can't be a Klingon until you're level 20-something. I have no interest in Fed "wargames", I just want to get down in the dirty frontline battles against our enemy, the Klingons. But smart and adaptable Klingons, not the unimaginative ones I face in PvE.

    So this is very unfortunate and makes me less inclined to care about PvP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Doesn't stop people queing for it though.:rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Dose not get better with pay to win format Cryptic seem to be going down. PW is truning STO in a copy of all there other MMOs. Nothing another 2k C-Store ship or Lockbox ship will not fix.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Sleeves wrote:
    PW is truning STO in a copy of all there other MMOs.

    I'm not familiar with any of PW's other MMOs. What's the PVP like in them?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    doesnt seem dead to me

    fvf = not dead
    fvk = not all that dead
    kvk = dead since day one
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I'm not familiar with any of PW's other MMOs. What's the PVP like in them?

    There biggest p2w argument is that you can get healing items/food/etc that are strictly better than in-game purchasables, thusly giving a pretty solid advantage in pvp.
    Also some really great gear can be bought.

    This is mostly my understanding of the game, as frankly I don't play either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I don't think PvP is dead...I like pugging and at Ker'rat I fight with the most powerful and nasty Klinguns in the world...very satisfactory...ahem...the few times I win...:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    LEONHART wrote: »

    kvk = dead since day one

    *Dead since FVF came out. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Miogaruna wrote: »
    *Dead since FVF came out. ;)

    well my 'first' toon was a negvhar healboat, didnt see those kvk much at all, if it did pop it mostly involved cloaking and playing the waiting game
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I trolled that thread. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    No, what the Op references is not why PvP is dying. The reason is much simpler: Too large teams in standard PvP. You will see many more people enjoying PvP when they add a 3v3 map.

    The reason for this is simple: Once four or more captains decide to shoot at your ship with alpha strikes, no tanking ability in the whole game will let you survive that. That means as a player, you have no influence at all on why your ship explodes, which is just an annoying experience, and such fights are also boring as hell. That is what many people experience when trying to PvP for the first time and what will not let them come back.

    In theory, your team mates could heal you to compensate the four or five alpha strikes, but thy need to react within a second (literally) to make that work, because your ship will be gone after two seconds.

    Now, with smaller teams (3 being the highest good number, in my experience), this cannot happen. Three alpha strikes are survivable for a good tank if the captain reacts quickly enough, and the individual ship makes much more of a difference then. Fights last longer, and are a much more rewarding experience.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Aldo-Raine wrote:
    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=271684

    People are too worried about making their ships look pretty and copying builds from carebear NPCs then Q up and get mad when said build is TRIBBLE.

    For me PvP is dead because of PvP'ers choosing words like theese...

    I have no respect or tolerance for that, and I stay out of PvP because of it...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    PVP Doesnt seem real dead to me i think the main issue is people arnt queing up because of the Haxcellant Panda's mind you they dont even hack but i think this games playerbase are too how to say this right i think this games playerbase cant deal with us PVPERZ pvp seems decent actually since Free to Play it seems to have grown a bit this is just my opinon anyway :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Possible reason PvP isn't as popular #1:

    You can't exercise to legal-in-several-nations option of slugging someone who constantly uses the word "noob" in the mouth.

    Possible reason PvP isn't as popular #2:

    Most people are secure enough that they don't have to shoot at someone else's pixel pile as a form of validation.

    Possible reason PvP isn't as popular #3:

    The game isn't designed for it and people who do want to play a PvP game will drop an FPS into their console since it's what they signed up for.

    I'm betting on option one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    twg042370 wrote:
    Possible reason PvP isn't as popular #1:

    You can't exercise to legal-in-several-nations option of slugging someone who constantly uses the word "noob" in the mouth.

    Possible reason PvP isn't as popular #2:

    Most people are secure enough that they don't have to shoot at someone else's pixel pile as a form of validation.

    Possible reason PvP isn't as popular #3:

    The game isn't designed for it and people who do want to play a PvP game will drop an FPS into their console since it's what they signed up for.

    I'm betting on option one.

    Reasons why PvP is dead Real Reasons
    #1, PvEers can't handle losing to another player. They barely scrape by an already pathetic pve experience, and would much rather die to borg cubes one shotting them than someone else, because they have incredibly fragile egos.

    Reason #2 PvEers by and large in sto are social shut ins, who lack self confidence. The very idea of socializing even in a virtual environment, is terrifying to them. Couple this with #1 and well there you go. Outside of the pvpers, most of the people still playing this game are that guy the one that doesn't bathe regularly, is overweight probably lives in his mom's basement, and has pinup posters of Janeway.

    Reason #3, The PvE community in this game such as it is, can't even hack it in other games pve. So they come here for the Wii style experience and can pretend how awesome they are, and as long as they avoid the ques, they don't ever get disillusioned by reality, that frankly they aren't nearly as awesome as the Pve Experience tells them they are.

    the funny thing is, most of us pvpers? we're actually pretty well socially adjusted. I can't say the same for the PvE community that refuses to talk in team chat, even in open instance pve, refuses to play together, and refuses to actually engage in social events. out of any community, I see far more smack talk and Trash out of the pve crowd, particularly the STF crowd, most of the zone chat, and hate tells that I have Archived over the last two years comes from pveers that que up for pvp and rage that they got beat.

    While the above are all true 80 percent of the time.. here's the real reasons.

    #1, the QA and Systems team. They can't code their way out of a wet paper bag. The games numerous (even 2 years after launch.. and I'm talking Major bugs), poor balance decisions, refusal to look at how the math of the game actually works and repeated snarky holier than thou attitude has driven away many consummate People (not just players but out and out stand up great people like Bigredjedi). Those people leaving in turn created a cascade effect.

    #2, a total lack of pvp content. First link in my sig, read it. People got sick of "your call is very important to us" and left. We have lost scores of pvp fleets over the last year and a half.

    #3 people got bored of winning all the time. No seriously it's true. TSI, QEW, SOB, CAC, (I'm sure there are others but these are the ones I have personal experience with) and now a larger # of Pandas are leaving. There's no competition in this game, against pugs. And it's gotten worse rather than better over the last 2 years. now it's so bad that often one Premade Grade player is all you need to 15 and 0 the competition. Because there are people that even after 2 years refuse to learn how the game works, and would rather just ***** and whine about how evil and exploiting premades are (despite the fact that they don't exploit).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I don't know, Mavairo, maybe it would have been better to stay silent. The OP post was kinda... trollish, I'd say.

    The reason PvP fails has little to do with the players in this game. It has everything to do with the constant neglect PvP has suffered. I believe that every player has a potential to find PvP enjoyable and interesting. But this game fails at making it enjoyable and interesting for most players.

    Sure, some "unsocial" behavior that occurs in PVP can be problematic and turn people off. But this has nothing to do with PvP on its own, but is a problem of unsocial players. And they are not limited to PvP. Just look at the STF discussion, you can get just as annoying people there.

    But all that is totally irrelevant to success or failure of PvP. PIck any game with lots of PvP (including ego shooters), and you will find the irrating players there, and yet those PvP games are succesful, but STO's PVP game is not. So it's to figure out what's wrong with STO PvP, not what's wrong with STO players.

    Which is something we both agree on... So we should probably both delving much on comments indicating otherwise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    anazonda wrote: »
    For me PvP is dead because of PvP'ers choosing words like theese...

    I have no respect or tolerance for that, and I stay out of PvP because of it...

    See my post above - that may be the reason PVP is dead to you, but it's not the reason PvP is dead. People that use terms like this exist in other PvP games and those PvP games are succesful.

    And I am not even sure that it's a reason for you, either. It's very easy to ignore such stuff in a succesful game as well. You will just think "What a d*ck" and move on playing with all the really cool people in the game and doing all the fun things the game allows you to do. But STO PvP is so small and so weak that it's hard to ignore irrations like that, because even if there are those cool players - their aren't that many fun things to do and it gets boring fast.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    anazonda wrote: »
    For me PvP is dead because of PvP'ers choosing words like theese...

    I have no respect or tolerance for that, and I stay out of PvP because of it...

    ...and the Dutch?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Most of the ppl dont make pvp because there is no point of it ,yes except glory .Go buy stuff with glory, until they make some system with rerards like all mmogames ,its pointless to talk for pvp, to die for nothing, i know around 200ppl in this game and that all their opinion and theire friends too... so dont wonder why there is no pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    LastFrakk wrote:
    Most of the ppl dont make pvp because there is no point of it ,yes except glory .Go buy stuff with glory, until they make some system with rerards like all mmogames ,its pointless to talk for pvp, to die for nothing, i know around 200ppl in this game and that all their opinion and theire friends too... so dont wonder why there is no pvp.

    Lol...I get...your trolling us with the same message. I highly doubt you know half of sto's playerbase...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    sophlogimo wrote:
    No, what the Op references is not why PvP is dying. The reason is much simpler: Too large teams in standard PvP. You will see many more people enjoying PvP when they add a 3v3 map.

    The reason for this is simple: Once four or more captains decide to shoot at your ship with alpha strikes, no tanking ability in the whole game will let you survive that. That means as a player, you have no influence at all on why your ship explodes, which is just an annoying experience, and such fights are also boring as hell. That is what many people experience when trying to PvP for the first time and what will not let them come back.

    In theory, your team mates could heal you to compensate the four or five alpha strikes, but thy need to react within a second (literally) to make that work, because your ship will be gone after two seconds.

    Now, with smaller teams (3 being the highest good number, in my experience), this cannot happen. Three alpha strikes are survivable for a good tank if the captain reacts quickly enough, and the individual ship makes much more of a difference then. Fights last longer, and are a much more rewarding experience.

    The suggestion here seems to be that one person should be able to effectively negate the coordinated attack of multiple opponents. That being the case, how would anyone be defeated in PvP? Furthermore, one person certainly can survive multiple alpha strikes. They may not be able to do it indefinitely but why should one person be able to do that?

    Teamwork should counter teamwork.

    I'm not saying that 3 v 3 is a bad idea, just that it doesn't really solve anything either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    SteveHale wrote: »
    The suggestion here seems to be that one person should be able to effectively negate the coordinated attack of multiple opponents. That being the case, how would anyone be defeated in PvP? Furthermore, one person certainly can survive multiple alpha strikes. They may not be able to do it indefinitely but why should one person be able to do that?

    Teamwork should counter teamwork.

    I'm not saying that 3 v 3 is a bad idea, just that it doesn't really solve anything either.

    I'm telling you, damn those *******s for all shooting at the same target. How dare they!! Can't they find thier own?:p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    It's not a difficult problem to make PvP more interesting.
    We need new maps and content, normal awards. That's all!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    rarely post on the forum, I usually limit myself to read, but I want to speak my mind, this time.

    I like the harsh tones of Mav and I love the wisdom of Mustrum, you seemed fire and water. I have read references, if only conceptual, to the other pvp games.

    I'm no expert but I have dabbled, even "professionally", some very famous fps and another couple of mmo.
    The only constant that I seemed to see, is that where there is no open pvp, there is a split between pro and fun. I mean, if I want to do a couple of headshot, I am careful not to confuse "pro" with "fun" in the choice of server.

    And I'm talking about, for example, counter strike, a game where, taken teamwork and premade out, it's just pure skill ..... imagine a game where, only to find a build extremely competitive, it may take weeks, and for the whole team, months In a context where it is not considered at all by the manufacturer.

    Plus I personally believe that part of Mav's speech is correct, players grew by a pve with completely insignificant level of difficulty, keeping in mind the stigma of their heroes of the big and small screen (for all "picard" I have encountered in 2 years, our good jean luc should have inseminate half milky Way), have an huge ego. In my opinion, half sto players stop pvping the first Pro escort they met.

    Divide those who want only the dilitium by those who want to play premade, it's a little thing that would solve much of the problem .... I think.

    Peace ^^
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    SteveHale wrote: »
    The suggestion here seems to be that one person should be able to effectively negate the coordinated attack of multiple opponents[...]

    No. The suggestion is that there should be fewer opponents on the map.

    That was quite clearly stated. Understanding anything else but that requires serious misreading.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sophlogimo wrote:
    No. The suggestion is that there should be fewer opponents on the map.

    That was quite clearly stated. Understanding anything else but that requires serious misreading.


    3 on 3 will lead to some really really long matches unless it is setup to something like a first to 10 kills or a timer, or another objective.

    I was in a 4v4 a couple weeks ago that lasted almost 4 hours.
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