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Is PvP being replaced with monster/scenario play?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2012 in PvP Gameplay
This is my gut feeling based on Gozer's comments. It makes it more accessible. It allows for balanced eSport play. It doesn't impact development of anything else in the game. It also isn't faction dependent and yet doesn't force the end of the war. It also would probably be the kind of unconventional thing that would prompt Gozer's warning that it won't make sense to people who already like PvP.

You queue based on playstyle. You get assigned a ship and faction that match the PvP role you've queued for. The gear is preset.

Basically, you have pre-balanced PvP scenarios that you drop players into, controlling pre-selected ships rather than their own and not necessarily playing as their actual faction.

This is basically kindof like what DCUO calls its "Legends" PvP. It's basically monster play that is Monster v. Monster.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Take a cryptic standpoint, where is the money in this method of pvp?

    Right now pvp'ers are probably some of the biggest individual spenders cryptic has. The fact PVP actually has a dev now probably furthers this.

    They try to get special ships like bugships, galors, and d'koras (I've seen more of all three in pvp than in any stf). Most pvp matches don't tend to have any non-c-store ships, where as stfs have plenty of basic RA level "free" ships. The p2w consoles (bear with the term) are largely used for pvp, where in pve they have a smaller impact.

    Unless you are suggesting also adding "p2w monsters" that people can buy, and then use as a class selection for this sort of monster play. Even then though that would break your pre-scripted engagement idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012

    You queue based on playstyle. You get assigned a ship and faction that match the PvP role you've queued for. The gear is preset.

    I quit PvPing all together and lose all hope for Cryptic as a game developer, I stop buying Cryptic products based on this lack of hope and I tell my friends the reason why I no longer play. They tell others, word spreads and soon things take a down turn all becuase of Monster Play concepts that are not fun for the individual or the game as a whole.
    I curse the noob/newb/noobie that started the whole contorted affair by wishing to be a Kirk/Chang in PvP but not wanting to do the work involved to get good at PvP.
    I remember the lackluster difficulty of STO PvE and its unchallenging demeanor and still continue to not buy into thier products becuase of its effects on the PvP community.
    I become saddened and scrape the slightly radioactive numbers off 50,000 1945 GE alarm clocks to acquire what I hope is fissionable material for a device of questionable use. Travel to Los Gatos. Use Device.
    Become even more saddened as the glowing numbers on the 1945 GE alarm clocks lack the needed radioactivity to detonate properly. Device is found by Homeland security and I go back to jail.
    Spend decades in solitary bemaoning the poor state of PvP in STO, the first MMO game where I actually enjoyed PvP. Work on prison tats.

    I think Monster Play PvP a bad idea that leads to a bad ending for all involved and takes away from the possibilities that STO could achieve with PvP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    yeah while personally I used to play FPS games for hours and hours on end that essentially acted this way for PvP, this isn't aa FPS game, it's an MMORPG. Take out the rpg and it really negates most of the reason people are on here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    The only game that has done PvM properly is LOTRO... and in LOTRO you still go in with your regular every day toon... just the opposing faction is the "Monster" Play and get mostly pre-made end level toons.

    To be honest STO doesn't stand a chance of creating something as well made as LOTROS PvM.... LOTRO was also a game that had NO PvP prior to Monstor Play.... scrapping a working PvP for something like PvM would be a bad idea on STOs part....

    HOWEVER... A Monstor Play area with real objectives like LOTRO has would be cool... however I don't see it as replacing player ships at all...

    Fed and Klingon Enter the PvM area... and battle Together over control points (like Lotros PvM)... against the "Monster" Players... players who play pre-made Star Trek Monstors.... Things like Undine Borg... ect ect...

    Honesty it is a cool idea of a large kerrat type map... perhaps the Monstor Faction could be the Iconians... this way Cryptic doesn't have to worry about making Canon ships... They could just make a Monster Version Cruiser / Escort / Sci... and 3 captain types. So Players select a ship a captain type... and roll there Monster toon... and give those people there end game skill points... and have another Monster Play Dilithium Vendor that sells cheaper versions of the weapons and consoles (as this is a PvM Toon Only).... They could give subscribers 3 Monster toon slots... and F2P people 1 slot. This keeps lots of people willing to play both sides... and gives subs a perk.

    Anyway long post for something I doubt would ever happen... as an open type area though it could be pretty fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    would be cool to fly around in a premade borg cube
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Husanak wrote: »
    Fed and Klingon Enter the PvM area... and battle Together over control points (like Lotros PvM)... against the "Monster" Players... players who play pre-made Star Trek Monstors.... Things like Undine Borg... .

    I'd hate to lose traditional PvP, as I have always been a big fan of the open PvP or territory control idea, but it doesn't sound like that's in the cards for STO. I've got to say that your idea actually sounds fun. I'd probably play something like what you've proposed. I'd totally love to play a Borg cube in an effort to assimilate a colony or some other objective driven task, against other players.

    Thumbs up on this :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    You queue based on playstyle. You get assigned a ship and faction that match the PvP role you've queued for. The gear is preset.

    In other worse, remove virtually all forms of individual player customization and diversity, and negate any semblance of individual or group/fleet progression. Across the board homogenization.

    Yeah... no thanks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Too early to tell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    In other worse, remove virtually all forms of individual player customization and diversity, and negate any semblance of individual or group/fleet progression. Across the board homogenization.

    Yeah... no thanks.

    My thing is, this is a revamp where they've all but said they aren't looking to target the existing PvPers' interests. Actually, I think they basically DID say that this is PvP targeted at people who don't like PvP and that it may not please PvPers.

    I'm not pitching this. I'm speculating on the breadcrumbs we've gotten.

    What I suggested here sounds a lot like what the hosts on STOked 125 were playing with as a PvP idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    And if that's true, that's just sad. Not terribly surprising given any number of their other terrible decisions, but sad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    I think we're at the point where speculating on the basis of what Cryptic has not said is A) ineffective, and B) unintentionally misleading.

    In fact, I have no information that Gozer has said anything specific about what ideas he's kicking around. He is actively soliciting ideas from the community at present.

    So... I'm not opposed to Monster Play as an additional option.

    I'm not opposed to Preset Scenarios as an additional option.

    I think I agree that ripping out "freestyle" PvP altogether is a bad idea and that something needs to be done to revitalize that. Somehow. So lets keep throwing out ideas.

    I think that Objective/Scenario-based PvP, Tournament-based PvP, and Fleet vs. Fleet PvP is what STO needs. Player-Authored PvP scenarios would revolutionize the whole genre if they can pull that off.

    This is Star Trek, darn it. We don't just throw ships and away teams at each other. We have battles for reasons. Leave the Deathmatch arenas in DOOM and its' clones where they belong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I think we're at the point where speculating on the basis of what Cryptic has not said is A) ineffective, and B) unintentionally misleading.

    In fact, I have no information that Gozer has said anything specific about what ideas he's kicking around. He is actively soliciting ideas from the community at present.

    So... I'm not opposed to Monster Play as an additional option.

    I'm not opposed to Preset Scenarios as an additional option.

    I think I agree that ripping out "freestyle" PvP altogether is a bad idea and that something needs to be done to revitalize that. Somehow. So lets keep throwing out ideas.

    I think that Objective/Scenario-based PvP, Tournament-based PvP, and Fleet vs. Fleet PvP is what STO needs. Player-Authored PvP scenarios would revolutionize the whole genre if they can pull that off.

    This is Star Trek, darn it. We don't just throw ships and away teams at each other. We have battles for reasons. Leave the Deathmatch arenas in DOOM and its' clones where they belong.

    I have to agree with everything in this post. I certainly hope that whatever they do to PvP, it ADDS to PvP, rather than eliminating options and replacing them with something else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    Felderburg wrote: »
    Originally Posted by bluegeek
    I think we're at the point where speculating on the basis of what Cryptic has not said is A) ineffective, and B) unintentionally misleading.

    In fact, I have no information that Gozer has said anything specific about what ideas he's kicking around. He is actively soliciting ideas from the community at present.

    So... I'm not opposed to Monster Play as an additional option.

    I'm not opposed to Preset Scenarios as an additional option.

    I think I agree that ripping out "freestyle" PvP altogether is a bad idea and that something needs to be done to revitalize that. Somehow. So lets keep throwing out ideas.

    I think that Objective/Scenario-based PvP, Tournament-based PvP, and Fleet vs. Fleet PvP is what STO needs. Player-Authored PvP scenarios would revolutionize the whole genre if they can pull that off.

    This is Star Trek, darn it. We don't just throw ships and away teams at each other. We have battles for reasons. Leave the Deathmatch arenas in DOOM and its' clones where they belong.
    I have to agree with everything in this post. I certainly hope that whatever they do to PvP, it ADDS to PvP, rather than eliminating options and replacing them with something else.
    This is something that I, too, completely agree with. note- ADDITIONAL OPTION, NOT REPLACMENT OF OLD SYSTEM
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I think we're at the point where speculating on the basis of what Cryptic has not said is A) ineffective, and B) unintentionally misleading.

    In fact, I have no information that Gozer has said anything specific about what ideas he's kicking around. He is actively soliciting ideas from the community at present.

    So... I'm not opposed to Monster Play as an additional option.

    I'm not opposed to Preset Scenarios as an additional option.

    I think I agree that ripping out "freestyle" PvP altogether is a bad idea and that something needs to be done to revitalize that. Somehow. So lets keep throwing out ideas.

    I think that Objective/Scenario-based PvP, Tournament-based PvP, and Fleet vs. Fleet PvP is what STO needs. Player-Authored PvP scenarios would revolutionize the whole genre if they can pull that off.

    This is Star Trek, darn it. We don't just throw ships and away teams at each other. We have battles for reasons. Leave the Deathmatch arenas in DOOM and its' clones where they belong.

    < standing ovation> And I was not a "true fan" of Star trek until I starting playing STO and met those fans who have found enjoyment in it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2012
    There is surprisingly little which needs to be done to fix PvP. In fact, the surprise isn't in what needs to be done, but in what has needed to be done for so long and gone undone.

    1) Bug fix and balance issues are clearly outlined in many threads on these topics. If Gozer and the System Design team sat down for one hour with reps of the top PvP fleets, they could make a list and probably have the fixes on Tribble in a week.

    2) Once balance is seriously addressed, create a matching program to put the elites in matches with other elites and noobs in matches with other noobs. This would round out the learning curve and eliminate most of the three second kills that discourage so many from playing PvP.

    3) Make the new information available in a consistent and accurate format for new and old players alike so a player can see that he was hit with a particular power, look it up, discover what counters it, and adapt his munchkin PvE ship to PvP play.

    Currently bug fixes often break existing powers or 'fix' issues which weren't broken, matchmaking is the first ten guys to queue, and advertisement for PvP is, "Stay the hell away from that, those guys kill you fast!" Given this situation, is is any wonder that we now need a PvP Developer to come in and 'fix' things?

    I use the swingset analogy: They built a swingset and promised to install the swings later, but never did. Now they want to justify taking away the swingset because few players use it. Hunh?

    We don't need fancy stuff, just a fix to what is probably the best PvP system out there, (potentially.) Forcing the Systems team to play PvP for a week would resolve almost all of these issues. But I'm malicious: I'd make them play Science captains in Science ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    brian334 wrote:
    3) Make the new information available in a consistent and accurate format for new and old players alike so a player can see that he was hit with a particular power, look it up, discover what counters it, and adapt his munchkin PvE ship to PvP play.

    This would be a HUGE help. Either a better combat log, or a better way to parse through it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Roach wrote: »

    I quit PvPing all together and lose all hope for Cryptic as a game developer, I stop buying Cryptic products based on this lack of hope and I tell my friends the reason why I no longer play. They tell others, word spreads and soon things take a down turn all becuase of Monster Play concepts that are not fun for the individual or the game as a whole.
    I curse the noob/newb/noobie that started the whole contorted affair by wishing to be a Kirk/Chang in PvP but not wanting to do the work involved to get good at PvP.
    I remember the lackluster difficulty of STO PvE and its unchallenging demeanor and still continue to not buy into thier products becuase of its effects on the PvP community.
    I become saddened and scrape the slightly radioactive numbers off 50,000 1945 GE alarm clocks to acquire what I hope is fissionable material for a device of questionable use. Travel to Los Gatos. Use Device.
    Become even more saddened as the glowing numbers on the 1945 GE alarm clocks lack the needed radioactivity to detonate properly. Device is found by Homeland security and I go back to jail.
    Spend decades in solitary bemaoning the poor state of PvP in STO, the first MMO game where I actually enjoyed PvP. Work on prison tats.

    I think Monster Play PvP a bad idea that leads to a bad ending for all involved and takes away from the possibilities that STO could achieve with PvP.

    ditto.

    Qapla'!
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