Seriously, especially when you are in a bird of prey, it is extremely annoying. If each runabout had the ability to activate its tractor beam randomly every 10 minutes or something, it might be reasonable, but when you have a dozen of them activating it every few seconds, it is extremely annoying.
Carrier spam is bad enough, but this is just OP, especially when the runabouts' tractor beams will often decloak a B'rel.
"Carrier spam. It isn't going away. Carrier pets are fun as hell. As a PvE player I want *more* pet spam, not less. If it wasn't for the grind, no-one would play it. Grinding keeps folks in the game."
With this kind of attitude from PvEletts, I'm scared.
Sometimes I will get hit with several of them at the same time, and i will hit my omega 3, and it will still hold me, and im like wtf. It doesnt do it all the time, but more often than i would like. Does this happen to anyone else?
Yeah, sometimes they will not even decloak you but other times they will lock a dozen tractor beams onto you and stop you dead in your tracks.
Before the Runabout spam, players actually had to spec into tractor beams and they had a cooldown. Now, they can just spam a dozen tractor-beam pets at you which means effectively no cooldown for the effect. It completely unbalances the game for birds of prey which rely on stealth and battle cloaks to compensate for their inherent weaknesses.
One idea would be to make the runabout tractor beams as effective as a regular beam, but give it a long cooldown and make it a player-activated power. The strength of the beam would scale based on how many runabouts you had deployed and their quality.
"Carrier spam. It isn't going away. Carrier pets are fun as hell. As a PvE player I want *more* pet spam, not less. If it wasn't for the grind, no-one would play it. Grinding keeps folks in the game."
With this kind of attitude from PvEletts, I'm scared.
I can't really blame people for finding carriers fun. It's a cool concept, and really somewhat enjoyable in game. It's not the pveletts fault that they have mass tractor beams or power siphons.
Really, I think the gui just isn't made to handle the spam gracefully. With some balance tweaks, and perhaps a lot of interface polish, I doubt they'd be nearly so disruptive to pvp.
Did i miss an update where siphon drones suddenly became a problem?I've been running the same build on my vo'quv for 2 years and they've worked the same way this whole time AFAIK. Combine them with energy siphon chaining and polarons and you have yourself a perma-disabled target. As long as your target is not an engineer.
As a matter of fact, even a couple of months ago all I had seen anyone say about them is "Don't use them. They suck."
So did they get a buff or something or is the build just gaining in popularity?
Playing an Klink eng captain on a cruiser I don't face any problems with these tractor beam pets. They are mainly slightly annoying but die fast with cycling FAWs the whole time. I general, I would say they are balanced more or less.
Simply adapt and replace DHCs against DBB or some arrays combined with FAWIII and II and you should not have any problems as en escort too. Or just ask your friendly comrade to do this for you.
skill tree overhaul changed how they and everything worked, super siphons were the result
I guess its just recently got big then because I ran siphons before and after the skill revamp andi never noticed any appreciable difference in the time it took to offline a target. Then again, i dont think i ever saw anyone else running siphons before the revamp so perhaps the problems always been there.
Playing an Klink eng captain on a cruiser I don't face any problems with these tractor beam pets. They are mainly slightly annoying but die fast with cycling FAWs the whole time. I general, I would say they are balanced more or less.
Simply adapt and replace DHCs against DBB or some arrays combined with FAWIII and II and you should not have any problems as en escort too. Or just ask your friendly comrade to do this for you.
This is about the only sensible remark I've heard regarding the entire 'issue' with the danube. Thanks for bringing some common sense into the equation.
I can't really blame people for finding carriers fun. It's a cool concept, and really somewhat enjoyable in game.
I can kinda blaim people for finding carriers fun, now, becuase that fun has always been here on the KDF side and all they had to do was try the ridged side to enjoy it.
But thats a different thread all together.
The way they TB counter ingame work need to be looked at and implemented as well as the ability to throw so many TBs on a single player and have them all effective.
PH should counter all TBs for the duration of its effect (15 seconds)
ApO should counter all TBs for the duration of its effect but possibly have lessened effect timer based on number of TB being used against it. Possibly rebuffed based on Player Engine power ( 15 seconds)
A2D should counter all TBs for the duration of its effect but possibly have lessened effect timer based on number of TB being used against it. Possibly rebuffed based on Player Auxillary power (15 seconds)
Playing an Klink eng captain on a cruiser I don't face any problems with these tractor beam pets. They are mainly slightly annoying but die fast with cycling FAWs the whole time. I general, I would say they are balanced more or less.
Simply adapt and replace DHCs against DBB or some arrays combined with FAWIII and II and you should not have any problems as en escort too. Or just ask your friendly comrade to do this for you.
Your post does not address the issue at all. The issue is that birds of prey are specifically balanced in the game in a certain way. In return for a battle cloak, they have to pay by being the weakest ship in the game in almost every other respect. The issue is not with killing the runabout spam. It is with a dozen runabouts spamming their tractor beam non-stop, preventing the use of the battle cloak.
Your post does not address the issue at all. The issue is that birds of prey are specifically balanced in the game in a certain way. In return for a battle cloak, they have to pay by being the weakest ship in the game in almost every other respect. The issue is not with killing the runabout spam. It is with a dozen runabouts spamming their tractor beam non-stop, preventing the use of the battle cloak.
I don't think the Battle Cloak or the BoP is a factor in the unbalanced TB pets. Its merely that the amount of TBs in use by the pets is too much for the counters to overcome if used as they are intended to be used ingame.
Your post does not address the issue at all. The issue is that birds of prey are specifically balanced in the game in a certain way. In return for a battle cloak, they have to pay by being the weakest ship in the game in almost every other respect. The issue is not with killing the runabout spam. It is with a dozen runabouts spamming their tractor beam non-stop, preventing the use of the battle cloak.
So then how do you combat a battle cloak?
Tractor Beams? Individual tractor beams are trivialized by the abundance of APO of tactical ships.
Multiple player tractor beams? Realistically you need 3 player to tractor a single bop/escort. Speccing into graviton/consoles doesn't do much in this regard, nor does running TB3.
The only way to keep someone from running is TB, currently its laughably ineffectual unless its used from multiple sources. Runabouts allow tractors from multiple sources and suddenly tac ships go "zomg I am not dps jesus anymore NERF NERF NERF! DEATH TO SCIENCE AND ALL THAT IS NOT DPS!".
Runabouts are easily and effectively countered by cruisers, both with FAW and EWP.
Science ships can deal with runabouts rather well too, GW, PSW, etc all deal with fighters of all sorts respectably.
Escorts/Bops are the only ship types that have real issues with fighters/runabouts. "oh noes I can't run away!" stay and fight you cowardly little wrinkle head, or has your "honor" already deserted you?
EVERY carrier out there right now has pets that are stupid. For the Atrox is runabouts, but frankly I'd say these are the least worrisome of the options. Oh noes I can't move is hardly as bad as "oh noes I can't do ANYTHING".
Siphon drones, orion dudes with weapon/engine shutoffs, Karfi Frigates... Wheres the unbridled and fiery wrath about the imbalance and lack of fun such fighters bring to pvp?
Siphon drops with a drain build Karfi can and will drain you to nothing and roast you dead without much you can do about it. Regardless of ship type. Your biggest hope is CONSUMABLES to help online a system at the right time to make a break for it.
Orion Dudes (I forget which orion one it is inparticular). They offline weapons and engines, congrats you can't run and you can't fight, ps your defense just went to TRIBBLE. Oh yeah these guys spam chron torps TOO oh yeah and KDF actually has flight deck doffs so they can be spammed EVEN more... OH YEAH these guys get summoned in THREES! Clearly runabout chron procs are op!
Karfi Frigates? gotta like trico spam, not to mention they are VERY hard to kill to the point you pretty much have to ignore them since by the time you kill one another can and will just take its place.
Where is the outcry of rage and hate for the Orion chron spammers? Where is the sensible approach in realizing that CC counters running?
Should the runabouts be tweaked? Yeah and guess what its already confirmed THEY ARE GETTING TWEAKED!
As a counter to the BoP pet, the Runabouts can stay the way are. Let them use a full TB2, let them fire Chrono torps, but only let each hanger support 2 wings of 1 pet just like the BoP pets. This will get rid of most all crying about them. Will people still cry? Always, but with this we'll hear ALOT less from people.
Comments
With this kind of attitude from PvEletts, I'm scared.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=4207610#post4207610
There's another thread about it too saying it was looked at but I can;t find it right off.
Before the Runabout spam, players actually had to spec into tractor beams and they had a cooldown. Now, they can just spam a dozen tractor-beam pets at you which means effectively no cooldown for the effect. It completely unbalances the game for birds of prey which rely on stealth and battle cloaks to compensate for their inherent weaknesses.
One idea would be to make the runabout tractor beams as effective as a regular beam, but give it a long cooldown and make it a player-activated power. The strength of the beam would scale based on how many runabouts you had deployed and their quality.
The fix isn't actually live yet.
I can't really blame people for finding carriers fun. It's a cool concept, and really somewhat enjoyable in game. It's not the pveletts fault that they have mass tractor beams or power siphons.
Really, I think the gui just isn't made to handle the spam gracefully. With some balance tweaks, and perhaps a lot of interface polish, I doubt they'd be nearly so disruptive to pvp.
As a matter of fact, even a couple of months ago all I had seen anyone say about them is "Don't use them. They suck."
So did they get a buff or something or is the build just gaining in popularity?
Simply adapt and replace DHCs against DBB or some arrays combined with FAWIII and II and you should not have any problems as en escort too. Or just ask your friendly comrade to do this for you.
I guess its just recently got big then because I ran siphons before and after the skill revamp andi never noticed any appreciable difference in the time it took to offline a target. Then again, i dont think i ever saw anyone else running siphons before the revamp so perhaps the problems always been there.
This is about the only sensible remark I've heard regarding the entire 'issue' with the danube. Thanks for bringing some common sense into the equation.
Your post does not address the issue at all. The issue is that birds of prey are specifically balanced in the game in a certain way. In return for a battle cloak, they have to pay by being the weakest ship in the game in almost every other respect. The issue is not with killing the runabout spam. It is with a dozen runabouts spamming their tractor beam non-stop, preventing the use of the battle cloak.
I don't think the Battle Cloak or the BoP is a factor in the unbalanced TB pets. Its merely that the amount of TBs in use by the pets is too much for the counters to overcome if used as they are intended to be used ingame.
So then how do you combat a battle cloak?
Tractor Beams? Individual tractor beams are trivialized by the abundance of APO of tactical ships.
Multiple player tractor beams? Realistically you need 3 player to tractor a single bop/escort. Speccing into graviton/consoles doesn't do much in this regard, nor does running TB3.
The only way to keep someone from running is TB, currently its laughably ineffectual unless its used from multiple sources. Runabouts allow tractors from multiple sources and suddenly tac ships go "zomg I am not dps jesus anymore NERF NERF NERF! DEATH TO SCIENCE AND ALL THAT IS NOT DPS!".
Runabouts are easily and effectively countered by cruisers, both with FAW and EWP.
Science ships can deal with runabouts rather well too, GW, PSW, etc all deal with fighters of all sorts respectably.
Escorts/Bops are the only ship types that have real issues with fighters/runabouts. "oh noes I can't run away!" stay and fight you cowardly little wrinkle head, or has your "honor" already deserted you?
EVERY carrier out there right now has pets that are stupid. For the Atrox is runabouts, but frankly I'd say these are the least worrisome of the options. Oh noes I can't move is hardly as bad as "oh noes I can't do ANYTHING".
Siphon drones, orion dudes with weapon/engine shutoffs, Karfi Frigates... Wheres the unbridled and fiery wrath about the imbalance and lack of fun such fighters bring to pvp?
Siphon drops with a drain build Karfi can and will drain you to nothing and roast you dead without much you can do about it. Regardless of ship type. Your biggest hope is CONSUMABLES to help online a system at the right time to make a break for it.
Orion Dudes (I forget which orion one it is inparticular). They offline weapons and engines, congrats you can't run and you can't fight, ps your defense just went to TRIBBLE. Oh yeah these guys spam chron torps TOO oh yeah and KDF actually has flight deck doffs so they can be spammed EVEN more... OH YEAH these guys get summoned in THREES! Clearly runabout chron procs are op!
Karfi Frigates? gotta like trico spam, not to mention they are VERY hard to kill to the point you pretty much have to ignore them since by the time you kill one another can and will just take its place.
Where is the outcry of rage and hate for the Orion chron spammers? Where is the sensible approach in realizing that CC counters running?
Should the runabouts be tweaked? Yeah and guess what its already confirmed THEY ARE GETTING TWEAKED!