Honor is what makes a Klingon a hunter and a warrior rather than a wild and cunning beast that walks on two legs. Honor tempers and shapes our instincts for battle. Honor is the hammer that, along with the heat of Klingon blood, forges our will into a blade of steel which cannot be broken. A Klingon can be defeated and die, but honor lives forever."
I'm thinking about writing a fanfic piece about a "Starfleet" Klingon. But I'm not sure if the backstory I have in mind is plausible, so I wanted to ask a few questions here and get a response from people who would be more versed in Klingon lore than I am.
Before I do, I'd like to stress that I am not really looking for opinions that aren't grounded in "fact". I'm not interested in what people think would be true... I'm interested in opinions that are based on events and dialogue that happened in an official series, movie, book, or game.
So, here goes...
If a Klingon were captured as a child, forced into slavery, and then subsequently rescued by Starfleet...
1. Would that child be considered to have lost his honor permanently?
2. Would his father, the leader of his House, accept him back?
3. From a Klingon perspective, is it possible that the individual might feel a debt of honor to the ones who rescued him from slavery?
4. How do Klingons view debts of honor or life-debts?
5. Could a Klingon consider their own personal code of honor more important than the honor of their House?
6. How would the Empire react to one who could be viewed as a defector? Could that individual's House restore the honor they would lose as a result? If so, how?
I'm thinking about writing a fanfic piece about a "Starfleet" Klingon. But I'm not sure if the backstory I have in mind is plausible, so I wanted to ask a few questions here and get a response from people who would be more versed in Klingon lore than I am.
Before I do, I'd like to stress that I am not really looking for opinions that aren't grounded in "fact". I'm not interested in what people think would be true... I'm interested in opinions that are based on events and dialogue that happened in an official series, movie, book, or game.
So, here goes...
If a Klingon were captured as a child, forced into slavery, and then subsequently rescued by Starfleet...
1. Would that child be considered to have lost his honor permanently?
2. Would his father, the leader of his House, accept him back?
3. From a Klingon perspective, is it possible that the individual might feel a debt of honor to the ones who rescued him from slavery?
4. How do Klingons view debts of honor or life-debts?
5. Could a Klingon consider their own personal code of honor more important than the honor of their House?
6. How would the Empire react to one who could be viewed as a defector? Could that individual's House restore the honor they would lose as a result? If so, how?
All depends if the child was made aware of how honor is handled in the Klingon society before he/she was captured and forced into slavery.
The house may not take him back if just freed by someone elses hand. They may take them back if they where freed by thier own hand.
Debts of honor/ life-debts are almost more important (if not actually are) than a blood oath or a oath of eality to a superior.
Only if the House in question is not acting with honor to begin with, otherwise No. Honor of the Empire, Honor of ones House, then personal Honor. The only factor involved is when the Empire or House is acting without obviuos honor.
No, to turn tratoir by one own decision is final and one dies to the Empire and the House that spawned them.
Special cases like Worfs in the federation where due to special circumstances that where beyond the control of the individual involved.
All depends if the child was made aware of how honor is handled in the Klingon society before he/she was captured and forced into slavery.
The house may not take him back if just freed by someone elses hand. They may take them back if they where freed by thier own hand.
Debts of honor/ life-debts are almost more important (if not actually are) than a blood oath or a oath of eality to a superior.
Only if the House in question is not acting with honor to begin with, otherwise No. Honor of the Empire, Honor of ones House, then personal Honor. The only factor involved is when the Empire or House is acting without obviuos honor.
No, to turn tratoir by one own decision is final and one dies to the Empire and the House that spawned them.
Special cases like Worfs in the federation where due to special circumstances that where beyond the control of the individual involved.
Ok, I probably need to rethink some aspects of this. I have some follow-on questions.
You said that obligations of honor rank from highest to lowest: Empire, House, personal. But you also said that life-debts could be considered more important than a blood oath or an oath to a superior. Where does that seem to fall on the scale?
I'd like to get specific about some of the circumstances I'm plotting out, if you don't mind.
Let's say this is before the Empire declared war on the Federation during a time when the alliance was still in full force and relations with the Federation were still relatively good.
Further, let's say that this individual Klingon is a citizen of the Empire who has not yet sworn any oaths to serve the Empire in a military capacity. Perhaps he hasn't even passed the Rite of Ascension yet. If this hypothetical Klingon wanted to join Starfleet instead of the KDF, what would have been the implications to his House and his standing within Klingon society?
STO somehow justifies Klingons serving in Starfleet. I'm trying to figure out what kinds of circumstances not exactly like Worf's would allow for such a thing to happen. Are they all defectors and considered to be without honor? Are they effectively sentenced to death in absentia?
You said that obligations of honor rank from highest to lowest: Empire, House, personal. But you also said that life-debts could be considered more important than a blood oath or an oath to a superior. Where does that seem to fall on the scale?
A life-debt is most important becuase your life is basically owned by them that you owe the debt to but such a payment of debt can not go against your loyalty to the Empire, Your house or yourself.
Hence you can owe and enemy a life-debt but are not expected to honor it if said enemy wishes you to bertray the Empire to fulfill it. Such an action would repay said debt but bring more dishonor upon you in doing it.
I'd like to get specific about some of the circumstances I'm plotting out, if you don't mind.
Let's say this is before the Empire declared war on the Federation during a time when the alliance was still in full force and relations with the Federation were still relatively good.
Further, let's say that this individual Klingon is a citizen of the Empire who has not yet sworn any oaths to serve the Empire in a military capacity. Perhaps he hasn't even passed the Rite of Ascension yet. If this hypothetical Klingon wanted to join Starfleet instead of the KDF, what would have been the implications to his House and his standing within Klingon society?
Thats a toughie. Since he has given no alliegence to the Empire he is free to go where he wishes, but leaving the Empire may put him in a stance of social outcasts among those who are sworn to the Empire and even the house that spawned him.
STO somehow justifies Klingons serving in Starfleet. I'm trying to figure out what kinds of circumstances not exactly like Worf's would allow for such a thing to happen. Are they all defectors and considered to be without honor? Are they effectively sentenced to death in absentia?
Plot devices written by the producers?
Worf was a special case, Bellana was a special case. Most appearances of Fed Klingons fall into the special case for ease of plotlines, even in STO it exists just becuase some fans wished to play a character like Worf's.
In a state or war, being Klingon, you are expected to hold the banner of the Empire. If civilian or Soldier.
How you may be recieved if trying to re-enter is a matter for the writers and most likley linked to your actions and the why you wish to rejoin the Empire.
Thanks, Roach. I appreciate your thoughts on this.
My thinking was, if I could make it possible for my hypothetical Klingon to join Starfleet, what would happen when the War broke out?
I would expect that Klingon to be ordered back to the Empire and be forced to make the choice to resign their commission in Starfleet or at the very least be considered a non-entity. I would also expect the act to disobey would bring dishonor to the House 'that spawned him'. Not sure how the House would react, or how the Empire would treat the House. Would they want to kill him, or simply disown him?
I would need a good rationale for that Klingon to want to remain with Starfleet and create tension. I figure in most cases a Klingon raised in House and Empire would follow orders. From the sound of it, a life debt would not normally interfere with that and thus does not create a lot of tension. Which is no good for my purposes.
What if he did go back? Say he does return as ordered and then is put into a situation where obedience means killing the person he owes the life debt to? What if that death would somehow be dishonorable?
Comments
Before I do, I'd like to stress that I am not really looking for opinions that aren't grounded in "fact". I'm not interested in what people think would be true... I'm interested in opinions that are based on events and dialogue that happened in an official series, movie, book, or game.
So, here goes...
If a Klingon were captured as a child, forced into slavery, and then subsequently rescued by Starfleet...
1. Would that child be considered to have lost his honor permanently?
2. Would his father, the leader of his House, accept him back?
3. From a Klingon perspective, is it possible that the individual might feel a debt of honor to the ones who rescued him from slavery?
4. How do Klingons view debts of honor or life-debts?
5. Could a Klingon consider their own personal code of honor more important than the honor of their House?
6. How would the Empire react to one who could be viewed as a defector? Could that individual's House restore the honor they would lose as a result? If so, how?
All depends if the child was made aware of how honor is handled in the Klingon society before he/she was captured and forced into slavery.
The house may not take him back if just freed by someone elses hand. They may take them back if they where freed by thier own hand.
Debts of honor/ life-debts are almost more important (if not actually are) than a blood oath or a oath of eality to a superior.
Only if the House in question is not acting with honor to begin with, otherwise No. Honor of the Empire, Honor of ones House, then personal Honor. The only factor involved is when the Empire or House is acting without obviuos honor.
No, to turn tratoir by one own decision is final and one dies to the Empire and the House that spawned them.
Special cases like Worfs in the federation where due to special circumstances that where beyond the control of the individual involved.
Ok, I probably need to rethink some aspects of this. I have some follow-on questions.
You said that obligations of honor rank from highest to lowest: Empire, House, personal. But you also said that life-debts could be considered more important than a blood oath or an oath to a superior. Where does that seem to fall on the scale?
I'd like to get specific about some of the circumstances I'm plotting out, if you don't mind.
Let's say this is before the Empire declared war on the Federation during a time when the alliance was still in full force and relations with the Federation were still relatively good.
Further, let's say that this individual Klingon is a citizen of the Empire who has not yet sworn any oaths to serve the Empire in a military capacity. Perhaps he hasn't even passed the Rite of Ascension yet. If this hypothetical Klingon wanted to join Starfleet instead of the KDF, what would have been the implications to his House and his standing within Klingon society?
STO somehow justifies Klingons serving in Starfleet. I'm trying to figure out what kinds of circumstances not exactly like Worf's would allow for such a thing to happen. Are they all defectors and considered to be without honor? Are they effectively sentenced to death in absentia?
Hence you can owe and enemy a life-debt but are not expected to honor it if said enemy wishes you to bertray the Empire to fulfill it. Such an action would repay said debt but bring more dishonor upon you in doing it.
Thats a toughie. Since he has given no alliegence to the Empire he is free to go where he wishes, but leaving the Empire may put him in a stance of social outcasts among those who are sworn to the Empire and even the house that spawned him.
Plot devices written by the producers?
Worf was a special case, Bellana was a special case. Most appearances of Fed Klingons fall into the special case for ease of plotlines, even in STO it exists just becuase some fans wished to play a character like Worf's.
In a state or war, being Klingon, you are expected to hold the banner of the Empire. If civilian or Soldier.
How you may be recieved if trying to re-enter is a matter for the writers and most likley linked to your actions and the why you wish to rejoin the Empire.
My thinking was, if I could make it possible for my hypothetical Klingon to join Starfleet, what would happen when the War broke out?
I would expect that Klingon to be ordered back to the Empire and be forced to make the choice to resign their commission in Starfleet or at the very least be considered a non-entity. I would also expect the act to disobey would bring dishonor to the House 'that spawned him'. Not sure how the House would react, or how the Empire would treat the House. Would they want to kill him, or simply disown him?
I would need a good rationale for that Klingon to want to remain with Starfleet and create tension. I figure in most cases a Klingon raised in House and Empire would follow orders. From the sound of it, a life debt would not normally interfere with that and thus does not create a lot of tension. Which is no good for my purposes.
What if he did go back? Say he does return as ordered and then is put into a situation where obedience means killing the person he owes the life debt to? What if that death would somehow be dishonorable?