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The Bortasqu': More than meets the eye?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited July 2012 in Klingon Discussion
The reviews on the BortasQu' as I have noticed are mixed. Some consider it one of the best cruisers ever, the others consider it the worst. I have recently purchased one and in my opinion, I never regretted it. It may turn like a two legged pig, but it is a beast if built right. So I have hatched the idea to utilize it's universal bridge officer slots to it's fullest. Here are some examples:

What you need: 4 bridge offficers, 2 Engineering, 1 Tactical, 1 Science. Mind you these are on top of the ones you already have. You might need to grind for dilithium or spend some $$$ to pull this off

Bortasqu' Cruiser (or Odyssey, any build with the Bortasqu' could work as well, if not better on the Odyssey).


Build 1: The Support Cruiser.

Your average, run of the mill, support and heal cruiser that can shell out respectable DPS. Great for PVP and PVE.

COM Engineering: EPTS 1, EPTS 2, ET3, ATSif3
LT Com Engineering: EPTA1, RSP1, ES2
Ensign Engineering: EPTA1
LT Science: ST1, HE2
LT Tactical: TT1, FAW2

Weapons of choice: Beam Arrays x8 or Beam Array x6, Torpedoes x2

The EPTA can chain with EPTS so you can have constant power to both subsystems. Plus Auxillary will help out with your healing abilities

Build 2: The Tactical Cruiser

This build boosts up the Burst Damage you can do with your beams in exchange for lower healing potency (Thank Roach for the idea)

COM Engineering: EPTW 1, EPTS2, ES2, AuxSif3
LT Com Engineering: EPTW1, EPTS2, ET3
Ensign Tactical: BO1
LT Science: ST1, HE2
LT Tactical: BO1, APB1
or
Bfaw1 ApB1
Bfaw1

Weapons of Choice: Dual Beam banks up front, Beam Arrays in the back

This build chains the Beam Overloads for greater spike damage, using Emergancy Power to Weapons to keep the power levels high. As the Bortasqu' is a slow turning ship, Beam Arrays are a more attractive idea than Dual Beam Banks at the cost of less DPS.

Those using the Odyssey have a significant advantage over the Bortasqu': Chevron Separation. Without the massive saucer, they can turn even quicker to bring their weapons into arc, making Dual Beam banks not a terrible idea.

Build 3: The Battlefield Controller

This build utilizes abilities like Eject Warp Plasma, Gravity Well, and Tractor Beam Repulsors to hinder and slow down you enemies for easy kills. Great for STFs to keep Nanite Spheres away in Infected Space, hinder BOP's and other ships in Cure Space, and the Probes making the mad dash for the portal in Khitomer Space. it also can be a respectable healing cruiser.

COM Engineering: EPTA 1, AID1, AID2, EWP3
LT Com Science: TSS1, TBR1, GW1
Ensign Engineering: EPTA1
LT Science: ST1, HE2
LT Tactical: TT1, FAW2

Please comment on what you think of my ideas and please give any advice on what I should change about any/all builds.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Have you tried?

    tactical BortasQu'

    EptW1 EptS2 ET3
    EptW1 EptS2 ExtS2 A2Sif3
    BO1 ApB1
    BO1
    or
    Bfaw1 ApB1
    Bfaw1
    ST1 HE2

    If using Bfaw1 you can switch the EptW1 out for EptA1 instead for higher heals. You will not be a DPV king but you should be able to keep the pressure and throw heals failry well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Well my idea was to switch out the Lt Commander Universal Slot for the different builds, though now that I looked at it again (and tested it out in a couple STF's) I realized I took away a bit too much engineering capabilities for an effective build. May need to rework my idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    For a fast moving BortasQu' vessel you could try;

    TT1 CSV1 BFAW3
    TSV1 ApD1
    EPTS1 A2D1 A2D2 A2SIF3
    EPTS1
    ST1 HE2

    Mount (3) turrets and (3) beam arrays and (2) torpedo bays

    you could use the hilbert method of cycling CSV1/ ApD1/ BFAW3/ TSV1/ EPTS1/ EPTS1/ A2D1/ A2D2 on the spacebar with SHIELD DISTRIBUTE and FIRE ALL commands.
    Saving A2Sif3/ HE2/ ST1 for heals.
    The twin A2D should give you a boost to turn, speed and a nice kinetic resist buff, but no general defense buff or bonus to damage buffing.
    The question is, will two A2Ds give enough bonus to turn and speed to make a difference?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Ah so what you're saying is: I had a good idea, I was just using the wrong universal slots?

    The two ATD's did give a better speed defense to make up for the lack of heals, but looking back, I would of stuck with the lower speed defense in exchange for more heals (and supporting ability).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    cliftona91 wrote:
    Ah so what you're saying is: I had a good idea, I was just using the wrong universal slots?
    Not all. You where merely doing what you like and finding a build idea that suits your playstyle. Thats the key to fun in STO, do what you enjoy even if it doesn't always gel with the status quo of what is best.
    The two ATD's did give a better speed defense to make up for the lack of heals, but looking back, I would of stuck with the lower speed defense in exchange for more heals (and supporting ability).
    Yes, the second idea of mine is not meant to be a healboat and since a DPV cruiser is not always effective, it may be more a fun playstyle choice over a good PvP build.
    Though you could remove ST1 and slot TSS1instead, or swap them out for HE1 & TSS2 to add a bit more of a heal factor to the mix.
    As well if the speed and turn buff is significant, you could have a TT1 CRF1 CRF2 / THY1 ApD1 set-up and mount (3) forward cannons & Torp (like 2 DHCs and 1 SCs) and (4) turrets in the rear and try to go for a massive forward attack posture.
    Or try TT1 CRF1 BO3 / TSV1 CRF1 and do a 2 DHCs, 1 DBB and 1 torp set-up on the forward arc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Well if what the Dev's are going to do about the nerfed Science abilities, my third idea might make a bit more sense now.

    And I edited part of the OP because your idea of Two BO's and EPTW was actually a pretty awesome idea, though I might run into a bit of a power drain problem (not that that can't be cured by nifty Engineering Captain power lol).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    cliftona91 wrote:
    Well if what the Dev's are going to do about the nerfed Science abilities, my third idea might make a bit more sense now.

    And I edited part of the OP because your idea of Two BO's and EPTW was actually a pretty awesome idea, though I might run into a bit of a power drain problem (not that that can't be cured by nifty Engineering Captain power lol).

    I currently tested the 2 BO1 idea in Ker'rat and found it had little effect on drain. Weapons power would drop to about 75 on the use of a BO1 shot then rebound very quickly. Its an atrition boot and will never equal a spike of the escorts but if one can keep yourself alive it can be effective.
    I would swap the ST1 for TB1 and use it to capture and kill escorts if the use of 2xApO was not so prevelant in escort builds to make the TB1 useless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    I currently tested the 2 BO1 idea in Ker'rat and found it had little effect on drain. Weapons power would drop to about 75 on the use of a BO1 shot then rebound very quickly. Its an atrition boot and will never equal a spike of the escorts but if one can keep yourself alive it can be effective.
    I would swap the ST1 for TB1 and use it to capture and kill escorts if the use of 2xApO was not so prevelant in escort builds to make the TB1 useless.

    But due to the BortasQu's less than stellar turn rate (which compared to the comparitively nimble Vorcha and Negh'var, is readily apparent), can't really maximize the DPS with Dual Beam Banks, so Beam Arrays will have to do.

    Though I have noticed that there isn't really much of a damage drop between an overloaded Beam Array and an overloaded Beam Bank.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    cliftona91 wrote:
    But due to the BortasQu's less than stellar turn rate (which compared to the comparitively nimble Vorcha and Negh'var, is readily apparent), can't really maximize the DPS with Dual Beam Banks, so Beam Arrays will have to do.

    Though I have noticed that there isn't really much of a damage drop between an overloaded Beam Array and an overloaded Beam Bank.

    Tis true, The BortasQu' and Bortas move so slow even the Voquv pilots laugh as they race by............
    Throttle control and the use of EngBatts and Duet burn can help this though.

    If BO3 strikes one can see a damage output of a average of 24k from a DBB while a BA will come in at around 10k-12k if lucky. Of course that just may be my experience and skilling can cuase it to differ.

    Of course due to the BO3 miss issues, one may go with BO2 and have a CRF1 & 2 instead.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    Tis true, The BortasQu' and Bortas move so slow even the Voquv pilots laugh as they race by............
    Throttle control and the use of EngBatts and Duet burn can help this though.

    If BO3 strikes one can see a damage output of a average of 24k from a DBB while a BA will come in at around 10k-12k if lucky. Of course that just may be my experience and skilling can cuase it to differ.

    Of course due to the BO3 miss issues, one may go with BO2 and have a CRF1 & 2 instead.

    Well when I tested my original layout, the Dual Beam Bank overload (I had 4 up front so there would be a 100% chance of using a DBB for the Beam Overload) did upwards of 14k damage with BO2, while a BA overload did about 8K.

    Now that I think of it, I could replace BFAW2 on my current build with BO2 and put in an extra Dual Beam Bank. I would still have a damage spike and my heals.

    Amazing what happens when you have a discussion with another player lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    cliftona91 wrote:

    Amazing what happens when you have a discussion with another player lol.

    Think tanking the second most OP thing about STO. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Roach wrote: »
    Think tanking the second most OP thing about STO. :D

    Is cash the first most OP thing about STO?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    cliftona91 wrote:
    Is cash the first most OP thing about STO?

    No comment comes to mind that would not have me back in solitary..........................
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Using it right now in elite stf's and pve.
    Don't like it.
    The bop sucks. And this is a big one for me because since it is such a big ship and needs to have the target in front to be effective(unlike the oddy) the bop is really the only dps you have.
    Don't like going full throttle and teleporting my target in front of me just to run right over him.

    This ship needs a karfi style makeover
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Staran wrote: »
    Using it right now in elite stf's and pve.
    Don't like it.
    The bop sucks. And this is a big one for me because since it is such a big ship and needs to have the target in front to be effective(unlike the oddy) the bop is really the only dps you have.
    Don't like going full throttle and teleporting my target in front of me just to run right over him.

    This ship needs a karfi style makeover

    I actually never considered the Special consoles it came with (maybe the Disruptor cannon thingy) as being more than fluff.
    The BortasQu' are designed with the Klingon concept of face your enemy and fight for a game that states the Circle and shoot method for cruisers is better. If the consoles where of a design that leaned towards the Klingon idea of being a tough gun boat over a big slow raptor, then it would have faired better.
    Something along the lines of extra built in turrets or somesuch.
    Now it just makes for a tough cruiser beamboat before anything else.
    I find it fun though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Staran wrote: »
    Using it right now in elite stf's and pve.
    Don't like it.
    The bop sucks. And this is a big one for me because since it is such a big ship and needs to have the target in front to be effective(unlike the oddy) the bop is really the only dps you have.
    Don't like going full throttle and teleporting my target in front of me just to run right over him.

    This ship needs a karfi style makeover

    As I mentioned before, if you take all the consoles off it and just run it as a bigger, tougher Negh'var (with variation), then it performs admirably.

    In my opinion, it's best feature is it's versatility. Sure we would all want a Commander Universal Station instead of a LTC Universal and the like, but we can't have everything in life.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Which is why I don't like it.

    In elite stf's the only way to take down the structures in reasonable time is with kinetic energy (torps).
    You need maneuverability/torps or a working pet.

    With this you have none
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    The question is whether there is any good build for a Bortasqu that can't be done better with a VorCha. I haven't seen one yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Staran wrote: »
    Which is why I don't like it.

    In elite stf's the only way to take down the structures in reasonable time is with kinetic energy (torps).
    You need maneuverability/torps or a working pet.

    With this you have none

    Not true. I've taken down Nanite Transformers, Generators, even the Gateways with nothing but Beam or Dual Heavy Cannons and still got the optionals

    @ Naevius: Nothing except for a more Engineering focused build. And even then, that could be done just as good, if not better in a Negh'var.

    I might grind the dilithium and get me a Vor'cha Retrofit if I wanted more of a bite with a cruiser. But for anything else, I'll stick with the BortasQu'.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Staran wrote: »
    Which is why I don't like it.

    In elite stf's the only way to take down the structures in reasonable time is with kinetic energy (torps).
    You need maneuverability/torps or a working pet.

    With this you have none
    I've used mine in only two STFs, KA and the Cure, on elite and while I was responsible for us failing the optional the 1st time (silly beams kept firing after I had a transformer down to 10%), we did well on subsequent attempts.
    I will be honest though, I have a much easier time completing STFs in a BoP and I play teh BortasQu' mainly to be a healboat for Pugging in PvP.
    Naevius wrote:
    The question is whether there is any good build for a Bortasqu that can't be done better with a VorCha. I haven't seen one yet.

    Easy answer, No. The BortasQu' is not any better than the existing battle Cruisers ingame. A failing of its design in my opinion as this vessel should have only one purpose - battle field combat control, a floating bunker and staging point, a CNC vessel with Crush and Conquer being the definition.
    Of course I don't find it any worse iether in many aspects if one resigns oneself to play it as a DPV support vessel.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    You use a bop in an elite stf? Wow. Those are some big bachee balls you are carrying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Staran wrote: »
    You use a bop in an elite stf? Wow. Those are some big bachee balls you are carrying.

    lol- it worked well enough on cranking out the damage but died no less than anything else flown in a STF.
    Of course if the STF death penalty goes live, I wouldn't be as quick to use a BoP in one.

    EDIT: in case you where curiuos the set-up for that BoP was this;

    TT1 CRF1 BO3 CRF3
    TT1 APB1 THY3
    EPTS1 A2D1
    EPTS1 A2D1 worked really well for damage but is reliant on hull heals from another player and has excellent mobility.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I had to save more than one BOP who was stupid enough to stay still and try to tank the Tactical Cube in Infected Space.

    In my BortasQu' mind you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I just wish they would stay within Extend shields range when PuGing in Ker'rat.
    I'm more than happy to waddle my BortasQu' close to the fedball and keep the heals going if they will do thier DPS blow things up magic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I run a covariant MK11 on my raptor and can tank pretty well.
    I will not bother anyone with my build. However, the exact same build worthless on the Bortasqu.
    Shields are paper thin. They should at least be the same as the Raptor no?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    I run the following on the command cruiser c-store variant. It is built for STFs, don't care for PvP so would likely suck in that.

    Boffs:
    TT1, CRF1, APO1
    TT1, CRF1

    ET1, A2SIF1, EptS3, AB3
    ST1
    HE1, TSS2


    Consoles:
    2x Neutronium's, borg, plasmonic leech
    Field Generator, Shield Emitter
    Energy x2, Theta Radiation, Auto Cannon

    Ship gear:
    Disruptor energy type used to sync with auto cannon.
    2x MKXII borg Dual Heavy cannons, 1x MKXII borg Dual Cannon, 1x MKXII borg Photon torp
    4x MKXII borg turrets
    MKXII Honor Guard deflector
    MKXII Honor Guard shield
    Borg engine


    Doffs:
    2x borg Projectile officers (improve cooldown on torp)
    2x Damage control officers (the ones that buff emergency power cooldown times)
    1x Conn officer (to buff TT1 and APO1)

    Can tank pretty much everything on elite including Donata (bar the uber weapon obviously) and dish out a fair bit of DPS, I think anyway.
    Gates and tac cubes have to be a little careful with but other wise can solo regular cubes, spheres, negvars and raptors easily.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Question? How did you solve it's two legged Targ rate of turn?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    Den3067 wrote:
    I run a covariant MK11 on my raptor and can tank pretty well.
    I will not bother anyone with my build. However, the exact same build worthless on the Bortasqu.
    Shields are paper thin. They should at least be the same as the Raptor no?

    Have you tried cycling two Emergency Power to Shields abilities and possibly using a tactical team or Rotate Shield Polarity with them?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    erad84 wrote: »
    I run the following on the command cruiser c-store variant. It is built for STFs, don't care for PvP so would likely suck in that.

    Boffs:
    TT1, CRF1, APO1
    TT1, CRF1

    ET1, A2SIF1, EptS3, AB3
    ST1
    HE1, TSS2


    Consoles:
    2x Neutronium's, borg, plasmonic leech
    Field Generator, Shield Emitter
    Energy x2, Theta Radiation, Auto Cannon

    Ship gear:
    Disruptor energy type used to sync with auto cannon.
    2x MKXII borg Dual Heavy cannons, 1x MKXII borg Dual Cannon, 1x MKXII borg Photon torp
    4x MKXII borg turrets
    MKXII MACO deflector
    MKXII MACO shield
    Borg engine


    Doffs:
    2x borg Projectile officers (improve cooldown on torp)
    2x Damage control officers (the ones that buff emergency power cooldown times)
    1x Conn officer (to buff TT1 and APO1)

    Can tank pretty much everything on elite including Donata (bar the uber weapon obviously) and dish out a fair bit of DPS, I think anyway.
    Gates and tac cubes have to be a little careful with but other wise can solo regular cubes, spheres, negvars and raptors easily.

    How did you get MACO on a KDF ship? I take it you meant Klingon Honor Guard or Omega.
    DO you find the ApO1 to help considerably with the turn and speed?
    Don't sell yourslef short on PvP, the learning curve is steep but easily attainable and many in the PvP corner of the game are willing to be helpful.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2012
    cliftona91 wrote:
    Question? How did you solve it's two legged Targ rate of turn?
    PvE, turn rate isn't everything. Especially if tanking/DPSing the tough things.
    Can sit still or reverse for some added defense whilst keeping whatever in 45 degree arc.

    When I need to shift though APO1, helps with turns, speed and breaking out of tractor beams. Primarily use evasive maneuvers ability to really turn it around (able to use every 30 secs, which for PvE is ok).

    That and fore thought about what I'm doing and where I'm going. Like start turning before enemy is destroyed, letting turrets finish off whilst I line up next enemy with DHCs. With chained TT1's and all my shield abilities I don't have to worry about shield facings much, just keeping them in my arc.

    Reverse is an underused ability by cruisers imo, but in this thing with 45 arc I use that tactic quite often. Saves having to worry about doing 270 degree turns. Means they have to over take you to get out of the arc, and in PvE they're not that smart :)
    If revving too long power will drain, so just come to a full stop for 2 secs while your power comes back and start again.
    Roach wrote: »
    How did you get MACO on a KDF ship? I take it you meant Klingon Honor Guard or Omega.
    DO you find the ApO1 to help considerably with the turn and speed?
    Don't sell yourslef short on PvP, the learning curve is steep but easily attainable and many in the PvP corner of the game are willing to be helpful.

    Haha, YES! I meant Klingon Honor Guard :)
    I'll update the post..

    APO1 is a little boost but it's not as good as evasive, I use APO mainly to boost damage output, but if I'm needing to turn or go fast it's a good backup to evasive. Only about half as effective as evasive so only use it if evasive is in cooldown.

    If you need to you can get DOFFs to lower cool down on evasive maneuvers so you can pop it quite often.
    I'm specced into thrusters as well so turn rate after all skills applied on it is like 8 or so which is quite decent. Equals base turn rate of most regular cruisers.
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