There were a lot of them in the Dominion War, and judging from registry numbers, it looks like the Excelsior and Miranda were in full scale production. There was an Excelsior or two in the fleet meeting the Borg sphere at the end of Voyager, too.
Though that brings me to something I've always wondered: There were a huge number of TMP-era ships in Starfleet in the TNG/DS9 timeframe, which I can believe since tech manuals say ships are built to last upwards of a century or two with refits and upgrades. But there's a big hole in the ships seen on screen. TMP-era ships are the bulk of the fleet, and TNG-era ones (Galaxy, Nebula, Akira, etc) are the backbone, but the things in between, like the Ambassador, Cheyenne, Constellation, and so forth, are almost entirely absent. Most of the canon ship classes from that lost era of ship design don't even exist except as Wolf 359 wreckage. There should still have been a substantial number of them in service in that timeframe, if not also in production as the older ships were.
I've never had a problem with any of the ships still being around. Commodore put a modern computer in a classic Commodore 64 case. That doesn't mean it only runs DOS. To me, it's the tech in the ship that determines whether it is up to date or not.
Even if Starfleet has a PEZ dispenser that spits out Mirandas and Excelsiors, as long as the tech they fill it with is modern it doesn't matter.
Yes please! This is what I was asking too. I can't find the excelsior in the linked image. It must be the USS Waldo or something.
This makes me want a new series that randomly slips a specific ship into the the background of space shots, once per episode, just to see who can find it.
It's in the big dock immediately to the left in the foreground.
To my eyes, the visible ships are (L-R) Akira, Excelsior, Galaxy, Akira, Saber. I can't make out any of the others but that may be a Saber below and to the left of the Excelsior and maybe a Steamrunner in the background center. I just can't tell for certain.
This is from 2371, a new Excelsior, or a refit of an older one is going on.
I'm on the whole "this ship should be tier 5", vs the "this ship is over 100 years old!" argument. Just saw this and thought it was cool.
I'd just chalk it up to using existing assets for a background shot. Star Trek is notorious for reusing assets (reusing the old Excelsior model for Star Trek Generations, kitbashing, etc.) to keep the budget down.
Maybe it's a new production Excelsior. Maybe it's in drydock for repairs. Inconclusive.
Actually... look closely...
You can see that part of the "left?" side of the saucer is missing, but not like the Enterprise E when it was undergoing repairs in Nemesis, more Complete... This would indeed indicate direct construction rather than repairs...
Also... Seriously... Some of you can't see the excelsior? w00t? :eek:
You can see that part of the "left?" side of the saucer is missing, but not like the Enterprise E when it was undergoing repairs in Nemesis, more Complete... This would indeed indicate direct construction rather than repairs...
Also... Seriously... Some of you can't see the excelsior? w00t? :eek:
It lends some weight to your theory. However, I could conclude also that the ship uses modular construction. This would allow even entire sections to be swapped out and easily replaced.
So say a ship does get a huge chunk torn out of it. Ok, remove the damaged section blocks, put in new section blocks. Easy. :-)
So I say it's still up in the air as to whether or not that Excelsior you see is a brand new ship or a previously produced ship that is just getting repaired.
And we'll probably never know until some insider at Paramount actually confirms the Excelsior's production life.
I'd just chalk it up to using existing assets for a background shot. Star Trek is notorious for reusing assets (reusing the old Excelsior model for Star Trek Generations, kitbashing, etc.) to keep the budget down.
correct. the real reason you see them in later series episodes is entirely due to budget constraints, which require the use of pre-existing assets to save time and money required for making new ones.
realistically, neither the miranda, nor the constitution, nor the excelsior, nor most of the other old ships would actually be still in production for centuries at a time. they would be replaced as new design, construction and technological improvements are made that result in better ships.
correct. the real reason you see them in later series episodes is entirely due to budget constraints, which require the use of pre-existing assets to save time and money required for making new ones.
realistically, neither the miranda, nor the constitution, nor the excelsior, nor most of the other old ships would actually be still in production for centuries at a time. they would be replaced as new design, construction and technological improvements are made that result in better ships.
You're probably correct on this, but watching Trek episodes and seeing Excelsior Class ships always around in support always makes me smile
You can see that part of the "left?" side of the saucer is missing, but not like the Enterprise E when it was undergoing repairs in Nemesis, more Complete... This would indeed indicate direct construction rather than repairs...
I think more importantly, it shows that this was actually created FOR this shot - it's not a preexisting model tossed in for filler, but has the air of an intentional inclusion, since the class wasn't otherwise shown in a state of advanced disassembly.
Given that the US government routinely plans for individual hulls to be in service in excess of fifty years (e.g. the Nimitz and Ford class aircraft carriers), and that the 1950s-era B-52 bombers are expected to remain in service until 2040 (a service lifetime of over 85 years), I do not find a 100-year lifespan so unbelievable, assuming that the systems get regularly upgrades (e.g. the 2409 Excelsiors will have post-TNG-era warp cores, sensors, phasers, etc.).
The Excelsior's somehow to old to still be in service but the B'rel retrofit doesn't take any flak for the fact that its also old as dirt. As Rhodes85 said though there are a lot ships that shouldn't really be here. But would you play it if it was missing the iconic ships of trek?
The Excelsior's somehow to old to still be in service but the B'rel retrofit doesn't take any flak for the fact that its also old as dirt. As Rhodes85 said though there are a lot ships that shouldn't really be here. But would you play it if it was missing the iconic ships of trek?
The curse of being a game developer. Balancing the wishes of the fans wanting canon accuracy against the fans wanting to fly the ships they love.
The Excelsior's somehow to old to still be in service but the B'rel retrofit doesn't take any flak for the fact that its also old as dirt. As Rhodes85 said though there are a lot ships that shouldn't really be here. But would you play it if it was missing the iconic ships of trek?
But the other really old ships in the game aren't top-of-the-line. The Connie is T1 and T2. The B'rel is a pet (there's the +1 but aside from the cloak its really T4). The Miranda is T1. Etc. But the Excelsior is flat-out better than the 2-generations-newer Galaxy, and arguably better than the Federation's newest Soverign and Nomad. It makes sense at T3 but at T5+ its kinda out-of-place.
I think more importantly, it shows that this was actually created FOR this shot - it's not a preexisting model tossed in for filler, but has the air of an intentional inclusion, since the class wasn't otherwise shown in a state of advanced disassembly.
Hey... You are right...
They intentionally disassembled a part of the ship (or partially build a new one) just for this shot...
That would indeed indicate that Paramount considered the ship modern enough for construction...
that was CBS not cryptic reason why if they did a new movie or tv show in prime universe
I know, but still... It's not like there arent other ST games that take place around that time as well... And saying STO is even close to canon would simply be idiocy... it never was. So it's not like people would confuse STO with Trek.
I know, but still... It's not like there arent other ST games that take place around that time as well... And saying STO is even close to canon would simply be idiocy... it never was. So it's not like people would confuse STO with Trek.
that is what the game was to be was canon as to why there is no romulan home world in this game that was only thing canon in JJ's movie this video will tell you that
The Excelsior's somehow to old to still be in service but the B'rel retrofit doesn't take any flak for the fact that its also old as dirt. As Rhodes85 said though there are a lot ships that shouldn't really be here. But would you play it if it was missing the iconic ships of trek?
Why pick on the B'Rel when you can pick on the Raptor, which was from Archer's era so is even older than the older than dirt B'Rel?
It's not proof of construction, and I'm a big Exelcior-in-the-future advocate.
If there was a big jagged hole in a ship, and you had to repair it properly, what would you do?
Would you fabricate a patch the exact shape of the hole and call it "a job well done"?
Or would you strip out any damaged components so that each "piece" that was damaged was replaced by a new one so everything lined up right with pre-existing components without the hassle of custom fabrication? Like a new hull plate, EPS conduit, structural beam etc. This would leave a "pristine" hole that looked like it was merely under construction, not repair of damage, but is no proof either way of wether or not the ship is being built, repaired (properly), or merely modified.
With the modularity of ships, and the incredible likelyhood of having ample spare Excelsior parts, the second approach makes sense from an engineering standpoint.
Comments
Though that brings me to something I've always wondered: There were a huge number of TMP-era ships in Starfleet in the TNG/DS9 timeframe, which I can believe since tech manuals say ships are built to last upwards of a century or two with refits and upgrades. But there's a big hole in the ships seen on screen. TMP-era ships are the bulk of the fleet, and TNG-era ones (Galaxy, Nebula, Akira, etc) are the backbone, but the things in between, like the Ambassador, Cheyenne, Constellation, and so forth, are almost entirely absent. Most of the canon ship classes from that lost era of ship design don't even exist except as Wolf 359 wreckage. There should still have been a substantial number of them in service in that timeframe, if not also in production as the older ships were.
Yes please! This is what I was asking too. I can't find the excelsior in the linked image. It must be the USS Waldo or something.
I've never had a problem with any of the ships still being around. Commodore put a modern computer in a classic Commodore 64 case. That doesn't mean it only runs DOS. To me, it's the tech in the ship that determines whether it is up to date or not.
Even if Starfleet has a PEZ dispenser that spits out Mirandas and Excelsiors, as long as the tech they fill it with is modern it doesn't matter.
This makes me want a new series that randomly slips a specific ship into the the background of space shots, once per episode, just to see who can find it.
To my eyes, the visible ships are (L-R) Akira, Excelsior, Galaxy, Akira, Saber. I can't make out any of the others but that may be a Saber below and to the left of the Excelsior and maybe a Steamrunner in the background center. I just can't tell for certain.
It's the big ship in the drydock, on the left side of the screen. It's got blue on it.
Actually... look closely...
You can see that part of the "left?" side of the saucer is missing, but not like the Enterprise E when it was undergoing repairs in Nemesis, more Complete... This would indeed indicate direct construction rather than repairs...
Also... Seriously... Some of you can't see the excelsior? w00t? :eek:
It lends some weight to your theory. However, I could conclude also that the ship uses modular construction. This would allow even entire sections to be swapped out and easily replaced.
So say a ship does get a huge chunk torn out of it. Ok, remove the damaged section blocks, put in new section blocks. Easy. :-)
So I say it's still up in the air as to whether or not that Excelsior you see is a brand new ship or a previously produced ship that is just getting repaired.
And we'll probably never know until some insider at Paramount actually confirms the Excelsior's production life.
correct. the real reason you see them in later series episodes is entirely due to budget constraints, which require the use of pre-existing assets to save time and money required for making new ones.
realistically, neither the miranda, nor the constitution, nor the excelsior, nor most of the other old ships would actually be still in production for centuries at a time. they would be replaced as new design, construction and technological improvements are made that result in better ships.
Wich we never will...
But you have to admit: It seems more believable that they were still build at the time pre-dominion wars than it did before.
Cryptic should have let this game happen 10 years after nemesis, rather than 40... Then we could have avoided all theese talks.
You're probably correct on this, but watching Trek episodes and seeing Excelsior Class ships always around in support always makes me smile
(Said after having just bought one on sale. Probably older than anyone aboard though, Vulcans included)
I think more importantly, it shows that this was actually created FOR this shot - it's not a preexisting model tossed in for filler, but has the air of an intentional inclusion, since the class wasn't otherwise shown in a state of advanced disassembly.
The curse of being a game developer. Balancing the wishes of the fans wanting canon accuracy against the fans wanting to fly the ships they love.
Me, I love the Excelsior the moment I saw first saw it on screen. Always will be my favorite ship.
But the other really old ships in the game aren't top-of-the-line. The Connie is T1 and T2. The B'rel is a pet (there's the +1 but aside from the cloak its really T4). The Miranda is T1. Etc. But the Excelsior is flat-out better than the 2-generations-newer Galaxy, and arguably better than the Federation's newest Soverign and Nomad. It makes sense at T3 but at T5+ its kinda out-of-place.
Hey... You are right...
They intentionally disassembled a part of the ship (or partially build a new one) just for this shot...
That would indeed indicate that Paramount considered the ship modern enough for construction...
Very Interesting...
that was CBS not cryptic reason why if they did a new movie or tv show in prime universe
I know, but still... It's not like there arent other ST games that take place around that time as well... And saying STO is even close to canon would simply be idiocy... it never was. So it's not like people would confuse STO with Trek.
that is what the game was to be was canon as to why there is no romulan home world in this game that was only thing canon in JJ's movie this video will tell you that
http://vimeo.com/1504688?pg=embed&sec=1504688
Can you rephrase that? I am not sure I understand...
But regardless of the intention, this game is clearly as far away from canon as it can be, and every patch, it moves a little futher away.
Why pick on the B'Rel when you can pick on the Raptor, which was from Archer's era so is even older than the older than dirt B'Rel?
Thanks. For some reason I didn't see the Nacelles on that, so just saw the Saucer and my mind filled in the blanks as a Galaxy.
If there was a big jagged hole in a ship, and you had to repair it properly, what would you do?
Would you fabricate a patch the exact shape of the hole and call it "a job well done"?
Or would you strip out any damaged components so that each "piece" that was damaged was replaced by a new one so everything lined up right with pre-existing components without the hassle of custom fabrication? Like a new hull plate, EPS conduit, structural beam etc. This would leave a "pristine" hole that looked like it was merely under construction, not repair of damage, but is no proof either way of wether or not the ship is being built, repaired (properly), or merely modified.
With the modularity of ships, and the incredible likelyhood of having ample spare Excelsior parts, the second approach makes sense from an engineering standpoint.