One of my friends was banned from an early Internet forum in 1996, he was age 15 at the time.
Last year, in 2011, after being elected to his municipality's parks board, he was able to ask for, and receive without problem, his permaban to be overturned.
This raises two questions and two situations in my mind. Both of which are very very silly. I'd like to know which one STO endorses.
1 - Permabans are truly Permanent.
If someone who is 13 does something and gets permabanned, this person will still be banned at age 31, and, at age 81. Even if this person's twin brother commits murder, he has a better chance of getting out of prison by age 81 than this guy does of having his ban reversed. This, of course, is very very silly.
2 - Permabans are not Permanent
If someone who is 40 does something and gets permabanned, he could petition to be unbanned even the very next year so long as he could prove that he's improved his behaviour. This of course means that the "permanent" part of a "permanent" ban is nothing more than letters, which is of course, very very silly.
Like most mmorpg's, a perma ban is a perma ban. The only time in various mmo's I've ever seen ban's lifted are when they were done by accident on the company side of things in error.
As far as STO's goes, perma is perma. But also keep in mind it's F2P now, so it's really not hard for someone to just sign up a new account and continue playing.
Well, a friend of mine has a ticket (that has been unanswered for 3 months) asking for his permaban to be removed from I believe November, and they haven't even bothered to answer the ticket.
but, some of our current forum regs have been at one time or another permabanned, and here they are. Naming names isn't allowed under the rules, but I'm sure we all know a couple of them.
I think it's a shame that certain people have been permabanned. Perhaps they brought it on themselves, but I think a temporary ban, or even a long term ban (six months) to one year might have been more appropriate. At least it would give people a chance to learn their lesson.
One of my friends was banned from an early Internet forum in 1996, he was age 15 at the time.
Last year, in 2011, after being elected to his municipality's parks board, he was able to ask for, and receive without problem, his permaban to be overturned.
This raises two questions and two situations in my mind. Both of which are very very silly. I'd like to know which one STO endorses.
1 - Permabans are truly Permanent.
If someone who is 13 does something and gets permabanned, this person will still be banned at age 31, and, at age 81. Even if this person's twin brother commits murder, he has a better chance of getting out of prison by age 81 than this guy does of having his ban reversed. This, of course, is very very silly.
2 - Permabans are not Permanent
If someone who is 40 does something and gets permabanned, he could petition to be unbanned even the very next year so long as he could prove that he's improved his behaviour. This of course means that the "permanent" part of a "permanent" ban is nothing more than letters, which is of course, very very silly.
If the game is still going in 10+ years, then maybe there would be a reason to consider amnesty for offenses old enough, but for now, your 18 and 68 year examples simply aren't applicable.
As for whether a permaban in the first place, we have no idea what was done to receive it, or if there were prior temporary bans, or anything, and it isn't like Cryptic or any other company is going to start going into specifics of any given ban.
If, say, it was an individual you annoyed to that level, would you expect forgiveness, even after decades, regardless of what was done or said? Hope for, sure. Ask for, sure... expect though?
One of my friends was banned from an early Internet forum in 1996, he was age 15 at the time.
Last year, in 2011, after being elected to his municipality's parks board, he was able to ask for, and receive without problem, his permaban to be overturned.
This raises two questions and two situations in my mind. Both of which are very very silly. I'd like to know which one STO endorses.
1 - Permabans are truly Permanent.
If someone who is 13 does something and gets permabanned, this person will still be banned at age 31, and, at age 81. Even if this person's twin brother commits murder, he has a better chance of getting out of prison by age 81 than this guy does of having his ban reversed. This, of course, is very very silly.
2 - Permabans are not Permanent
If someone who is 40 does something and gets permabanned, he could petition to be unbanned even the very next year so long as he could prove that he's improved his behaviour. This of course means that the "permanent" part of a "permanent" ban is nothing more than letters, which is of course, very very silly.
Most internet forums, except perhaps government ones, are privately run (including this one). So any administrator who's 'permabanned' anyone can decide to 'unban' whenever they wish. You didn't mention whether your 'friend' was banned from a government or private forum, but it's really not relevant to this.
This is PWE's forum. They, and they alone, can decide when or if a 'permaban' is removed. As a privately run board, there's no obligation for them to remove or not remove a permaban.
Of course, since you've decided that both upholding and not upholding permabans is 'very very silly', the whole point is moot, I suppose. Unless we're discussing 'Schr
There's a third group that has to be considered. The ones who get permabanned for telling the truth and for backing it up with proof, and would tell the admins of whatever forum they got banned from what to go do with themselves if they offered to lift the permaban. :eek:
I'd even be willing to back a decade long ban over a permaban as at least the latter has an end-date.
It's not silly. I have been active on the forum for over 2 years and have never received even a single infraction. The are warnings, and time-outs first before you get a permaban.
In the world of Internet, months are decades and some years are eternity.
Funny thread by the way.
Definitely a funny thread.
Am I the only one who, after reading the original post, wanted to ask how the OP's friend got into office without his/her opponent MUDSLINGING and bringing up the permaban calling ethics and values into question? Imagine the campaign ad ...
Soandso wants to raise taxes!
Soandso doesn't support local police!
Soandso hates puppies!
SOANDSO WAS PERMABANNED FROM FORUM X!
There's really no such thing as a permanent ban for someone who was 13 and now 30.
A forum can only ban you in two ways: ban your account name or ban your IP address - your IP address is logged on the forum every time you post. So when I posted this my IP address was also posted to the forum and the Devs/Mods have access to that IP address. If a forum only bans your account name then you can simply just make a new account and keep posting. Of course forum software allows them to cross-reference IP address and see however many accounts someone has - assuming they want to go to all that trouble. If you're IP banned then the only way to post to the forum would be to make a new account and get a new IP.
So, if you were 13 you were living in your parent's home and using their internet, with their IP address. At 30 you're living in your own home and have a different IP address - or at least you should be. As such you had two different IPs. You could simply make a new account name and start posting again. Plus the Mods and Devs are probably different after 17 years and wouldn't know it's you, anyway.
I'd even be willing to back a decade long ban over a permaban as at least the latter has an end-date.
I Strongly disagree...
Theres a certain person who was recently banned from STO because he kept claiming to be/becomeing EP, stealing artwork for his site and a ton of other offences...
He was warn banned several times, and finally Cryptic appearently gave up and banned him for good...
Cryptic gave him alot more breathing room than I would have, and him gone is a good thing for everyone (apart from him of cause), and they should never let him in again, cause he would just start over, because he dosen't want to see where he was wrong in the first place, and as such will continue doing the same sh*t over and over again.
A forum can only ban you in two ways: ban your account name or ban your IP address - your IP address is logged on the forum every time you post. So when I posted this my IP address was also posted to the forum and the Devs/Mods have access to that IP address. If a forum only bans your account name then you can simply just make a new account and keep posting. Of course forum software allows them to cross-reference IP address and see however many accounts someone has - assuming they want to go to all that trouble. If you're IP banned then the only way to post to the forum would be to make a new account and get a new IP.
Traditionally, yes. Unfortunately for us users, the now-rising practice of tying your internet accounts more directly to your real life identity (e.g. via Facebook profile) makes it possible to enforce a ban against the actual person and not just their IP or member account.
Much like a jail sentence for Life only being a long time, not for a full on life time, a permaban is also for a long time, and after a long time could be overturned.
Comments
As far as STO's goes, perma is perma. But also keep in mind it's F2P now, so it's really not hard for someone to just sign up a new account and continue playing.
but, some of our current forum regs have been at one time or another permabanned, and here they are. Naming names isn't allowed under the rules, but I'm sure we all know a couple of them.
If the game is still going in 10+ years, then maybe there would be a reason to consider amnesty for offenses old enough, but for now, your 18 and 68 year examples simply aren't applicable.
As for whether a permaban in the first place, we have no idea what was done to receive it, or if there were prior temporary bans, or anything, and it isn't like Cryptic or any other company is going to start going into specifics of any given ban.
If, say, it was an individual you annoyed to that level, would you expect forgiveness, even after decades, regardless of what was done or said? Hope for, sure. Ask for, sure... expect though?
Most internet forums, except perhaps government ones, are privately run (including this one). So any administrator who's 'permabanned' anyone can decide to 'unban' whenever they wish. You didn't mention whether your 'friend' was banned from a government or private forum, but it's really not relevant to this.
This is PWE's forum. They, and they alone, can decide when or if a 'permaban' is removed. As a privately run board, there's no obligation for them to remove or not remove a permaban.
Of course, since you've decided that both upholding and not upholding permabans is 'very very silly', the whole point is moot, I suppose. Unless we're discussing 'Schr
I'd even be willing to back a decade long ban over a permaban as at least the latter has an end-date.
It's not silly. I have been active on the forum for over 2 years and have never received even a single infraction. The are warnings, and time-outs first before you get a permaban.
I also know multiple people who were "permabanned" over at the WoW forums, who all came back from permaban.
Permaban is relative.
Funny thread by the way.
Definitely a funny thread.
Am I the only one who, after reading the original post, wanted to ask how the OP's friend got into office without his/her opponent MUDSLINGING and bringing up the permaban calling ethics and values into question? Imagine the campaign ad ...
Soandso wants to raise taxes!
Soandso doesn't support local police!
Soandso hates puppies!
SOANDSO WAS PERMABANNED FROM FORUM X!
hahahahahahaha
A forum can only ban you in two ways: ban your account name or ban your IP address - your IP address is logged on the forum every time you post. So when I posted this my IP address was also posted to the forum and the Devs/Mods have access to that IP address. If a forum only bans your account name then you can simply just make a new account and keep posting. Of course forum software allows them to cross-reference IP address and see however many accounts someone has - assuming they want to go to all that trouble. If you're IP banned then the only way to post to the forum would be to make a new account and get a new IP.
So, if you were 13 you were living in your parent's home and using their internet, with their IP address. At 30 you're living in your own home and have a different IP address - or at least you should be. As such you had two different IPs. You could simply make a new account name and start posting again. Plus the Mods and Devs are probably different after 17 years and wouldn't know it's you, anyway.
I Strongly disagree...
Theres a certain person who was recently banned from STO because he kept claiming to be/becomeing EP, stealing artwork for his site and a ton of other offences...
He was warn banned several times, and finally Cryptic appearently gave up and banned him for good...
Cryptic gave him alot more breathing room than I would have, and him gone is a good thing for everyone (apart from him of cause), and they should never let him in again, cause he would just start over, because he dosen't want to see where he was wrong in the first place, and as such will continue doing the same sh*t over and over again.
Permabans for permanent ban is a good idea.
Traditionally, yes. Unfortunately for us users, the now-rising practice of tying your internet accounts more directly to your real life identity (e.g. via Facebook profile) makes it possible to enforce a ban against the actual person and not just their IP or member account.