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Not quite a parallel, but hopefully.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2012 in Ten Forward
Before I start this, I'd like to state very clearly that my loyalties are to the phaser. That having been said, I would like to draw a completely hypothetical parallel to Star Wars MMOs.

Star Wars Galaxies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies
Servers shut down due to massive player upheaval over drastic changes to the game. The Enhanced Combat system cut the number of classes down drastically, and almost every player who stuck through a good deal of the time will almost always have the same complaints. They changed drastically, didn't listen to the players. Their Development staff was too small, they were underfunded, and the decision was made to cut out all the complicated stuff, so the poor dev's team's jobs could be simpler.

Before the death of Galaxies, Lucas Arts decided to not be scared of funding a game substantially. They learned not to hawk off Dev work to people who can't handle the job. They learned not to drastically change a game without first consulting with the fanbase. And then....

The Old Republic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic

"Although BioWare has not disclosed development costs, industry leaders and financial analysts have estimated it to be between $150 million and $200 million. If accurate, this would make it the most expensive video game ever developed"

"Star Wars: The Old Republic has received generally positive reviews from critics, with a score of 85 on Metacritic[56] and a 84.46% on Gamerankings.[55] G4TV gave a review of 5/5 and praised the game for "Top notch music and voice acting" and "hundreds of hours of content."[58] PC Gamer gave a 93/100, praising the story, voice acting, and the amount of content available.[62] Gamespy gave a review of 4/5, praising the story lines and companion system but criticising the "standard kill and fetch" quests.[64] GameSpot gave the game 8.0/10, saying "SWTOR isn't the next step in online role-playing games. Instead, it's a highly entertaining refinement of what has come before it."[65] The game has received a 9.0/10 "Amazing" rating from "

(These Cited from the wikipedia article)

They didn't skimp on the Devs in skill or quantity. They fix bugs almost immediately. The fans are willing to fork out huge amounts of cash for it.




Now we come to the parallel I was talking about.


Star Trek Online:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trek_online

"Star Trek Online has received mixed or average reviews, garnering a 65 on Metacritic.[37] GameSpot praised the game's space combat as entertaining, but found the other aspects of the game to be "bland and shallow".[38] An IGN reviewer described the game experience as feeling like "two games" which did not mesh together well, and although visually it was "quite a gorgeous game", found much of the gameplay to be repetitive in nature."

Released under conditions of what most would call "unfinished," it bankrupted, and had to be sold off. Bought up by Cryptic studious, fan turmoil was somewhat stifled by a lot of empty promises that were never fulfilled. For example, a port to Console system was promised before launch, and never occured.

Development has been stagnant, and despite having been launched more than 6 years after world of warcraft, still never managed to edge out any form of sizable piece of the market.

And now it sits here, with a dev team that is understaffed and entirely too complacent, waiting to die like Star Wars Galaxies.



Will this, however, bring about a new Star Trek game? Is the fanbase young enough for another attempt to survive? I hate to admit it, but the Abrams movies might be our only hope of saving the franchise. I'm hoping, that someone up in CBS"s big chair decides "hey, let's do it again but not half *** it this time. Let's hire experienced devs, and lots of them. Let's fire them when they don't do their job. Let's make it work this time, and put those force pushers at TOR out of business"
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    So you're hoping that PWE/Crypitc fails miserably and somebody else picks up the IP to make TOS Online?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    swtor fans are willing to fork out huge sums??? nah they dont have a cstore :)

    swg shutdown because of changes??? no it sidnt it was shutdown to make way for swtor.

    as always different opinions but in the end why is swtor suddenyl hawking friend passes/weekend passes.....they are afraid they wont get their money back?

    all in all none of them connect to sto to be honest other than all3 being MMO's
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    So you're hoping that PWE/Crypitc fails miserably and somebody else picks up the IP to make TOS Online?

    A curious comparison. I suppose in that context, I also hope the Berlin Wall comes down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    swtor fans are willing to fork out huge sums??? nah they dont have a cstore :)

    swg shutdown because of changes??? no it sidnt it was shutdown to make way for swtor.

    as always different opinions but in the end why is swtor suddenyl hawking friend passes/weekend passes.....they are afraid they wont get their money back?

    all in all none of them connect to sto to be honest other than all3 being MMO's

    Please read the provided articles. The servers got down to just over 10,000 players. It died, well before TOR, and had little to do with TOR. That game was widely abandoned long before TOR's announcement.


    Edit: Also, I'm not attempting to compare gameplay, styles, or lore. I only wish to engage the quality, effort, and maintenance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    swtor fans are willing to fork out huge sums??? nah they dont have a cstore :)

    swg shutdown because of changes??? no it sidnt it was shutdown to make way for swtor.

    as always different opinions but in the end why is swtor suddenyl hawking friend passes/weekend passes.....they are afraid they wont get their money back?

    all in all none of them connect to sto to be honest other than all3 being MMO's

    I've noticed that the emails I get from them have gone from a couple of days free to a full week with the last one....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    the onyl thing that killed swg was that its life started and ended during a huge change in what people wanted in MMO's Sandbox or WOW clone? SOE's attempt to change the game to get more players meant they lost those who wanted sandbox. They were just making the wrong decisions at the wrong time.
    It was a gamble that didnt pay off.

    As far as i know STO hasnt had a CU yet or an NGE? unless you count Crossfire in which case unlike the CU and NGE actually worked.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    As far as i know STO hasnt had a CU yet or an NGE? unless you count Crossfire in which case unlike the CU and NGE actually worked.

    Free to Play
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    queenanti wrote:
    Now we come to the parallel I was talking about.

    Everything you have to say about STO is completely out of date.

    Since the game went F2P, the server population has exploded. Perfect World has put the game on the right track to being a successful moneymaker, despite the cries of "the game is now Pay2Win!!!" by the veterans. That's unfortunately the way the game has gone and is unlikely to ever change.

    From a success standpoint however, this is a good thing. The game is making money which means the game isn't going to die a slow death like Galaxies did. We've had our NGE with the free to play conversion and the dilithium currency mechanic, and it has not caused the game to die. As much as the very few people complain on the forums about having to pay through the nose for goodies like the +1 Odyssey and Bortasqu', players are still lining up to fork over the cash for them. Those cash transactions are what keeps this game chugging along, and chug along this game shall for a very long time.

    Op, you've been playing STO for less than a month and you see fit to pass judgement on its status and future. I advise you to get lost if you think doom and gloom is the only conclusion you can reach based on your crappy analysis, or you can shut up and play the game for a while because right now you're a clueless noob who doesn't know anything.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    A lot wrong with your post OP....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Op, you've been playing STO for less than a month and you see fit to pass judgement on its status and future. I advise you to get lost if you think doom and gloom is the only conclusion you can reach based on your crappy analysis, or you can shut up and play the game for a while because right now you're a clueless noob who doesn't know anything.

    Entirely too much hostility guy. Name calling? Overkill.

    Also, yes a month. I did, however, clearly do my homework. I made it to level 50 in a week of casual play time, and have spent a decent amount in the C-store. My opinion is valid.

    Farmville makes money, that doesn't mean it's good. Buy to win...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    A lot wrong with your post OP....

    Thank you for your kinder, albeit, vague criticism.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    queenanti wrote:
    Thank you for your kinder, albeit, vague criticism.

    You want a less vague one?

    SW:G was only killed when SW:TOR come online, naturally LucasArts would not want two MMO running at the same time.

    Also over the years I seen BioWare became more and more arrogate and falling into their own hype (see DA2), I happen to be a RPG player and played most of BioWare games and when I look at TOR I see "generic BioWare MMO" ... it launched in December so lets see how its like in May, I have no interest in playing TOR since from what I saw is just bad Fanficion.

    And now I make a accusation, the only reason you are upset is because you dont want to fork over 4000 points for the Bundle ... granted, its a large sum of points but still you just want to have everything handed to you because you pay a subscription.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    f2pdrakron wrote:
    You want a less vague one?

    SW:G was only killed when SW:TOR come online, naturally LucasArts would not want two MMO running at the same time.

    Also over the years I seen BioWare became more and more arrogate and falling into their own hype (see DA2), I happen to be a RPG player and played most of BioWare games and when I look at TOR I see "generic BioWare MMO" ... it launched in December so lets see how its like in May, I have no interest in playing TOR since from what I saw is just bad Fanficion.

    And now I make a accusation, the only reason you are upset is because you dont want to fork over 4000 points for the Bundle ... granted, its a large sum of points but still you just want to have everything handed to you because you pay a subscription.

    Negative sir. I'm actually a fan of free but buy this games. I'm highly ranked in LOL ladders for example.

    Don't assume I'm whining about forking out cash, I'm not. I'm quite fortunate to have the RL career that I do. I've already spent a good deal of cash on STO.

    Edit: My comparison was regarding drastic gameplay change without consumer consent.

    Edit2: And you guys keep making the WRONG claim that TOR killed Galaxies. This bothers me because my statement wasn't an opinion. It was a fact. All the way up until 2008 Lucasarts were swearing to keep both up at once, but the amount of active plays dropped drastically after the "wow cloning."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    A big difference:

    George Lucas finances Star Wars games.

    CBS does NOT finance Star Trek games. They take a cut for them.

    That's a big difference. Star Trek doesn't have a wealthy owner intent on upping the quality of the brand for personal reasons. People making Star Trek projects of any kind have to riase money for them and generally that means making due without much money.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Even though I had stopped playing SWG, I still followed news of it, and the game was still being worked on right up to the licence pull. Heck they had introduced atmospheric flight just before the end. The license pull is what closed the game, if they had a longer contract they would have kept it running. http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1181980p1.html
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    queenanti wrote:
    I did, however, clearly do my homework. My opinion is valid.

    And yet all you did was take the initial 2010 reviews of the game and assume they still validly predict that the game as it is now will still fail. Oh, and you mentioned F2P as a change as big as the NGE game killer for Galaxies even though it isn't and STO is clearly alive.

    You're not making an educated conclusion, you're pushing an agenda. You're not happy with STO and you're cloaking your displeasure behind warnings of the game's demise. You are not to be taken seriously by anyone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Everything you have to say about STO is completely out of date.

    Since the game went F2P, the server population has exploded. Perfect World has put the game on the right track to being a successful moneymaker, despite the cries of "the game is now Pay2Win!!!" by the veterans. That's unfortunately the way the game has gone and is unlikely to ever change.

    From a success standpoint however, this is a good thing. The game is making money which means the game isn't going to die a slow death like Galaxies did. We've had our NGE with the free to play conversion and the dilithium currency mechanic, and it has not caused the game to die. As much as the very few people complain on the forums about having to pay through the nose for goodies like the +1 Odyssey and Bortasqu', players are still lining up to fork over the cash for them. Those cash transactions are what keeps this game chugging along, and chug along this game shall for a very long time.

    Op, you've been playing STO for less than a month and you see fit to pass judgement on its status and future. I advise you to get lost if you think doom and gloom is the only conclusion you can reach based on your crappy analysis, or you can shut up and play the game for a while because right now you're a clueless noob who doesn't know anything.



    I respect the OP for her opinion and her concerns.

    When I sided with the order of the phaser immediately on seeing STO go F2P, we were still in the midst of a content drought, as some would put it.

    Within weeks, Cryptic and PWE staff started churning out lots of community info followed by actual content following soon after.

    No doubt the Dominion FEs were obviously rushed out in the nick of time, but there was real effort put in to 'Wow' the playerbase.

    Even customer service has improved. Where before, it was normal to take up to 14 days for tickets to be answered, but after PWE_BranFlakes commented on one of my complaint threads yesterday, I realized that one of my ladies had her tickets answered and a customer support rep assigned to her, resolving the problem in ONE DAY.

    So whatever we whine about here, from transphasic torpedo nerfing to account hacking - I always note that there will be a Dev Team post in it within a matter of hours.

    This is the sort of player-developer commitment that separates the lame profit-centric companies from the legends.

    STO with time, can become that legend provided we stick around and keep producing quality, constructive criticism for the devs and PWE to work on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    queenanti wrote:
    Edit: My comparison was regarding drastic gameplay change without consumer consent.

    Well Season 5 was what changed things, it started in December and if I look at the STOwiki I can see how it was and oh boy ...

    Why are you presuming the system was changed for the worst? Lets look at the Skills we had at Captain:

    Captain

    Exploration Cruiser Captain
    Long Range Science Vessel Captain
    Tactical Escort Captain

    So this is ... "so what class of a ship you want to have a bonus"?

    And you guys keep making the WRONG claim that TOR killed Galaxies. This bothers me because my statement wasn't an opinion. It was a fact. All the way up until 2008 Lucasarts were swearing to keep both up at once, but the amount of active plays dropped drastically after the "wow cloning."

    Yes, I know what killed SW:G but you are trying to champion BioWare's SW:TOR as if they somehow are different ... I seem their arrogance and denial with Dragon Age 2.

    You know what changed? SOE created SW:G based on their EQ model but them come WoW that became God Emperor of MMOs and everyone started copying it ... SOE changed SW:G in a attempt to gain more subscribers, it failed but the difference is STO is not copying WoW to gain more subscribers but going F2P as a attempt to change their revenue model.

    Yet SW:G only had the plug pulled in December 2011, NGE was November 2005 so for 6 years SW:G was apparently profitable enough to keep alive until SW:TOR was released.

    Point is things are changing, the F2P system is starting to take hold because finally it sunk that you cannot copy WoW and expect WoW subscription numbers ... if the F2P system will hold or not in the long run remains to be seen but this is were they gone with this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    queenanti wrote:
    Please read the provided articles. The servers got down to just over 10,000 players. It died, well before TOR, and had little to do with TOR. That game was widely abandoned long before TOR's announcement.
    SWG was abondoned in what way?
    It got updates pretty much all the way to the end. Atmospheric flight for instance was added near the end.

    And the 10,000 players number? It was reported back in 2006. So that's 6 years ago.
    They continued on for nearly 6 years before killing the game.
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