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***spoilers*** New FE and Phasing!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Hey! All you people saying "They can't shut down DS9, it would break everything!" Well, duh, have you ever heard of PHASING? THAT is the opportunity that has been lost. If you have completed the mission, the galaxy level graphic of DS9 is swapped out for one with battle damage and dominion ships near it, and you can't access it anymore. Further, all of its functionality is transferred to the new Bajoran staging area that SHOULD have launched with this FE.

Not doing this was missing a huge, obvious, opportunity to grow the game, which is what FEs are all about! I mean damn how hard can it be to lock a certain player out of an area based on whether a bit is set for mission completion but other mission not completed (the future FEs) and then replace the DS9 graphic for players based on those same bits. Sounds a lot like stuff they do already! Weee!
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This has nothing to do with not being able to Phase. This has to do with the fact that the FE takes 5 weeks to play-out in real time but might only encompass 3 days in game time. People don't only play the game on Saturday during the FE. They play every day, and quite often they will have other Missions they're doing which require them to go to DS 9 - and those Missions will have very different Stardates then the FE.

    You're thinking about everything as though it was linear. It's really not. Phasing out DS 9 will only TRIBBLE up the other 19 hours a week people are playing Missions which has nothing to do with the FE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I to thought about this after completing the new FE; and came to the conclusion that in order for Cryptic to accomplish this, they would need to move certain NPC's from DS9 to another location.

    For example the STF vendors could have been moved to Drozana Station temporarily.

    I would have liked Cryptic to do this; perhaps it's not to late, but they'd need quite some convincing to go ahead with this now the first FE has already been released.

    My personal advise; provide constructive posts describing why it should happen or why it shouldn't happen.

    P.S. For all we know; Cryptic could have plans to have us retake the station by the next episode...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Alecto wrote: »
    P.S. For all we know; Cryptic could have plans to have us retake the station by the next episode...

    Bajor will fall next then we will need to take back bajor and the station before casing the domion back into the wormhole and nearly restarting the Dominion war.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    It would've been cool, but you have to remember that while this FE takes place chronologically after all the existing missions, you can play it from level 9. Would make no sense for a player who's going to have to play the Cardassian missions in the next 5 weeks to have the DS9 social zone locked off to them.

    "Yeah, you can't visit DS9 cos the Dominion control it. But you can still accept DS9 related missions from Captain Kurland." Would be just as immersion breaking as being able to go visit DS9 like nothing's happened.

    That's assuming it's even techincally possible for them do that without breaking half the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Hot-Cancer wrote: »
    It would've been cool, but you have to remember that this FE takes place chronologically after all the existing missions, but you can play it from level 9. Would make no sense for a player who's going to have to play the Cardassian missions in the next 5 weeks to have the DS9 social zone locked off to them.

    "Yeah, you can't visit DS9 cos the Dominion control it. But you can still accept DS9 related missions from Captain Kurland." Would be just as immersion breaking as being able to go visit DS9 like nothing's happened.

    That's assuming it's even techincally possible for them do that without breaking half the game.

    Only valid point I have heard...that wouldn't be easily fixable (i.e. other people saying you need to go to DS9 for this or that random mission and those would break for people who had done this FE, that is fixable by just moving the NPC that you need to interact with, in most cases) But in THIS instance, the entire cardassian line is based around DS9...so yeah that would be difficult.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Only valid point I have heard...that wouldn't be easily fixable (i.e. other people saying you need to go to DS9 for this or that random mission and those would break for people who had done this FE, that is fixable by just moving the NPC that you need to interact with, in most cases) But in THIS instance, the entire cardassian line is based around DS9...so yeah that would be difficult.

    The only way I can think of getting around that would be to lock off the FE until after the Cardassian front missions have been completed or skipped, and then not allow players to replay them for the duration of the FE. But given that you can't start (or even skip) those until level 40, that's too prohibitive a level limit on the FE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    While the game is designed to be non-linear, our character's journeys IS linear in that everything is assumed to happen in the order you do it. So, if a character does the FE, then DS9 was attacked and it doesn't make sense that it's still open for visits.

    I support the phasing idea, even if it means cutting off certain NPCs and quests for 5 weeks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    At the end of the day, I can see why they wouldn't want to close off DS9. It's a lot of work to do and opens up more possibilities to break things.

    I would liked to have seen them open up Bajor as a social zone post fall of DS9, however. That's really sticking me in the craw as an immersion breaker. Let's face it, this isn't BioWare and it isn't Blizzard- Cryptic has enough people to go just far enough to meet a some expectation, but not far enough to actually be fulfilling.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Letting the dominion take DS9 is the real fault. You don't let major social and mission hubs fall under foreign hostile control. It just breaks too much if you really block access, and if you don't do it your new mission looks quite silly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    You're thinking about everything as though it was linear. It's really not. Phasing out DS 9 will only TRIBBLE up the other 19 hours a week people are playing Missions which has nothing to do with the FE.

    I think the Prophets may agree with you on this one! ;)

    Cosmic_One for Emissary! :p


    In all fairness; it's a great concept (that becomes overly complex due to game mechanics as well as real life play time) but STO has been around for just over 2 yrs (real time) now and in game it's still 2409 and the developers often remind us that the in game date/time never changes.

    That's an interesting topic though (no intention to derail the thread but think this is worthy info to note and is relative to the topic)...

    In the Season 5 Dev Diary #6 (click) the Captain’s Log (Recorded on Stardate 86927.78 by Captain Va'Kel Shon, U.S.S. Belfast) is typed up for all to read.

    Using this site (here: http://www.hillschmidt.de/gbr/sternenzeit.htm) the stardate is calculated as December 5, 2409, Time: 15:21:10...


    In the Season 5 Dev Diary #22 (click) the following is stated reguarding the Dominion Attack Fighters.
    Quantum dating puts its construction somewhere around stardate 51133

    That stardate is calculated as February 18, 2374, Time: 13:04:48...


    So in summary the games story is progressing (as stated above 2409 is nearly over, roll on 2410) but the game is linear which means that when a player starts a new character they start at the precise time in game that everyone else did 2 yrs ago; and when ever the character starts a mission, they start that mission at the same in game time everyone else does.

    Essentially the games story revolves around a single character (that's you), the star of the show but the game also has to compensate for everyone else playing the game and does so by never changing; only adding.

    Correct me if I'm wrong...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Hot-Cancer wrote: »
    It would've been cool, but you have to remember that while this FE takes place chronologically after all the existing missions, you can play it from level 9. Would make no sense for a player who's going to have to play the Cardassian missions in the next 5 weeks to have the DS9 social zone locked off to them.

    "Yeah, you can't visit DS9 cos the Dominion control it. But you can still accept DS9 related missions from Captain Kurland." Would be just as immersion breaking as being able to go visit DS9 like nothing's happened.

    That's assuming it's even techincally possible for them do that without breaking half the game.

    who says this FE takes place chronologically after the others? if it did then why doesnt the Defari ambassador not recognize players who havent played through the Breen episodes yet? if this takes place chronologically after them, then he hsould recognize you even if you havent played them yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tenkari wrote:
    who says this FE takes place chronologically after the others? if it did then why doesnt the Defari ambassador not recognize players who havent played through the Breen episodes yet? if this takes place chronologically after them, then he hsould recognize you even if you havent played them yet.

    I wasn't aware he didn't recognise players who hadn't played the Breen episodes, since the only characters I've done it with have done the Breen eps. (Although shouldn't he recognise you if you've done the diplo mission on Starbase 39? He certainly remembers that at the start of the Breen FE)

    But it still makes sense that this takes place after most of the existing PvE content, even if the comment about 'encountering the Borg' you get in the mission intro is taken as a reference to the sector block invasions only. If you've only done a hanful missions against the Klingons, then why are you important enough to be at the conference, especially if Starfleet have other representatives already?

    That said, it wouldn't make a difference to the fact that locking off players who are doing or have to do the regular Cardassian-front missions from visiting DS9 once they've done this FE is just as immersion breaking as allowing players who have done the FE & Regular Cardassian missions to visit DS9.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Hot-Cancer wrote: »
    I wasn't aware he didn't recognise players who hadn't played the Breen episodes, since the only characters I've done it with have done the Breen eps. (Although shouldn't he recognise you if you've done the diplo mission on Starbase 39? He certainly remembers that at the start of the Breen FE).

    Ran through it before with a level 26 who hadent done the breen episodes yet and havent done any diplo missions with him, he didnt recognize me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tenkari wrote:
    who says this FE takes place chronologically after the others? if it did then why doesnt the Defari ambassador not recognize players who havent played through the Breen episodes yet? if this takes place chronologically after them, then he hsould recognize you even if you havent played them yet.

    I'm fairly sure he does. He makes a comment like 'Oh thank heavens you're here!'


    Wait, that's 3PO. Anyway, it's something like that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Alecto wrote: »

    Essentially the games story revolves around a single character (that's you), the star of the show but the game also has to compensate for everyone else playing the game and does so by never changing; only adding.

    Correct me if I'm wrong...


    I could be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure that's how most MMOs work. Though I believe they advance their own timelines via expansion packs and the like.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    What I meant by non-linear is that players can do the Missions in whatever order they wish to do them. I might Skip the entire Klingon Front and only do them when I am VA rather then Lieutenant. Likewise I might be level 10 and doing the FE before I've ever done any of the other FEs.

    The reason it doesn't make sense to lock out DS 9 is because the FE isn't the only thing going on in the game. We're in the middle of this big 2800 invasion but we decide to go off and deal with the Dividians rather then the Dominion. We decide to go to Minos Taurus and deal with Klingons stomping on Tribbles - and even have the Defiant there to help us with that. If the only thing you're doing is the FE then yes, it makes sense; but it doesn't make sense in a game canon perspective because we don't stop playing and only do the FE for the next 5 weeks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    They can track your mission history.So, iIn my opinion, what they should have done is create a DS9 instance for those of us that are level 50 and have completed the first episode that allows us to fight the Jem'Hadar ships indefinitely. We can't retake DS9, but we can have fun blowing up Jem'Hadar.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This has nothing to do with not being able to Phase. This has to do with the fact that the FE takes 5 weeks to play-out in real time but might only encompass 3 days in game time. People don't only play the game on Saturday during the FE. They play every day, and quite often they will have other Missions they're doing which require them to go to DS 9 - and those Missions will have very different Stardates then the FE.

    You're thinking about everything as though it was linear. It's really not. Phasing out DS 9 will only TRIBBLE up the other 19 hours a week people are playing Missions which has nothing to do with the FE.

    this. phasing has absolutely nothing to do with it
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