so yea, Recently I have been working on my new UI for STO which involves an app for the Acer Iconia a500 which incorporates the LCARS style of TNG flight and such, I want to be able to have a Carrier button for the klingon version but i need to get an idea of what style i should do it,
Carrier....
......... FIGHTER..... FIGHTER
...........RAIDER........ RAIDER.
or
Carrier
FIGHTER
.........FIGHTER
RAIDER
,,,,,,,,,,RAIDER
imagine them inside LCARS icons in klingon form....i really cant explain it,
i also have it for a multitude of other basic ship functions, and as of yesterday it worked like a charm using it to do the FE.
this may be slightly off due tot he forums correction system.
There is a Gorn fleet support ship right? Varanus I believe?
A Fed carrier in my opinion should fall into that role. It's a support ship for small craft operations and to bolster the capabilities of an escort/attack group or cruiser taskgroup.
A massive battle carrier may not be 'right' to you lot due to Federation doctrine, but a engineering support vessel like the Varanus is definitely useful for any task force far from home. Star Trek Federation ships are always depicted as self sufficient and have an amazing ability to adapt to changing technology and systems damage, but sometimes you need a dedicated repair facility to replace major ship components or conduct salvage operations in the field.
A carrier / fleet support vessel can be used for that purpose, and is not strictly 'offensive' in nature. Star Trek Insurrection also featured an enormous holodeck ship, indicating the Federation can and will build very large specialised vessels if needed. A fleet support ship giving team buffs, repairs, and with a secondary ability to deploy large numbers of support craft is a very versatile 'flying fortress' type unit to back up an already strong Starfleet force.
By comparison the much-discussed Caitian Drone Carrier is definitely an offensive platform, because you use the attack drones in a 'space control' role, versus general fleet support in my proposal above.
I've rewritten this reply enough times now to be logged out of STO...
Currently, the Feds have 4 more ships at the Admiral level than the KDF has at the General level. When the Hegh, Qin, and Negh retros are added; it will be 1 more ship. With the addition of the T5 Escort, it will go back to 2 more. One of the potential carriers (Vesta), may be at the T5 level - so it could be 3 more again.
It's Star Trek. TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, 11 Prime Movies, and 1 Alt Movie. We followed the Federation.
That the KDF only has 3-4 fewer ships... is pretty damn amazing.
As for customization of those ships, skins, etc... no doubt there is a certain level of disappointment at the severe lack of customization for KDF ships . . . but again, it's Star Trek.
Supposedly, there is a great deal of work involved on resolving some of the issues with the KDF throughout Season 5 and 6. Cryptic knows on some level they have to "finish" the KDF before adding the Romulans and Cardassians.
@carmenara, that sounds more like the Vesta class there has been various discussions about. Had kind of seen the Caitian more in line with the Orion carriers.
Novels are soft canon, and there's recently been announced a Doctor Who-TNG crossover novel. Do we want to put in Doctor Who or the TARDIS because it now has soft canon support?
They already put Time Lord/TARDIS technology in the game. How else do they fit whole starships inside those little lock boxes?
DnD style bags of holding are in too. I can't imagine physically carrying 20 large hypos, 20 large shield batteries and two cute fluffy tribbles in my pockets ;p
This thread was made with the intent, not for Fed Carrier fans to come in and demand they get exactly what they want, and for canonists and anti-Fed Carrier posters to be ignored, but for both sides to come in and compromise.
Give the Feds thier carrier, as they will not shut-up until they have the toys they see as better than thier own. Give the KDF the actual Warships they should have and let the pieces fall where they may. If teh Federation playerbase is like the characters of the Genre then they will rise to a challenge, if not then its just a space opera fantasy after all and Gene was right and they ares till in thier infancy and evidently need the placation a parent gives thier not yet adult children.
Everyone please get back on topic, we need to find a workable compromise for this topic so we can finaly shut it down.
As Katic Said we have 5 workable compromises, when we get to 10 we should begin voitng.
so lets hear thems ideas, also if you dont go ahead and read a little bit into the thread then post an idea which already exists then we will dismiss it.
Everyone please get back on topic, we need to find a workable compromise for this topic so we can finaly shut it down.
As Katic Said we have 5 workable compromises, when we get to 10 we should begin voitng.
so lets hear thems ideas, also if you dont go ahead and read a little bit into the thread then post an idea which already exists then we will dismiss it.
What's the point? The only way this thread affects gameplay is if some developer happens to see it and like some of the ideas in here. Throwing out ideas makes sense. Debating ideas makes sense. But trying to force some kind of consensus when none clearly exists doesn't seem to have much point.
As another poster pointed out, the fact that this has gone on for so many pages indicates that we are nowhere near putting anything to rest.
Plus, I hate the Preservers/ancient race idea. Klingons and humans are not related. That is all.
B'Elanna Torres, Miral Paris, and basic reproductive biogenetics would disagree with you on that. But that's neither here nor there.
I think the 'agile console' design -- where an aux craft console's 'summons' depend on what slot its in -- is probably the best solution. It is well in keeping with Starfleet which seems to prefer very flexible ship design; it covers why we have not seen any sort of 'flatbed' or dedicated carrier; and it allows pretty much any ship Fed ship to function as a carrier if the person wishes it.
About the only thing I see wrong with it is the whole 'pay for power' thing but that's endemic to the C-Store itself, and I'm rapidly finding myself in the minority in disliking that sort of thing.
or do you think BoP all rolling on Universal Consoles is fair?
Actually Yes I do!!
The BoP is the best designed-to-reflect-in-genre class ship in the game and since it has a hull/shield combined total in health that can be one-shot by a single Beam Overload, I find it very balanced for teh perks it has ingame.
It is quite apparent that ST writers (modern day) have no concept or understanding of xenobiology.
Seriously, why would a Klingon want to mate with a human anyways? A targ would be more fun than that.
I think some human males really would find a Klingon woman enjoyable. :rolleyes:
Anyway... did people like my suggestion to instead giving the Federation players a carrier, to instead give them the ability to request minor race assistance in the form of being able to "spawn a random minor race allied ship" to assist them in the battle?
Maybe a couple of small Andorian frigate sized ships or a Vulcan support craft or heck, any of the minor race ships that are on friendly terms with the Federation. It would give the player the support craft they are looking for would it not?
So with the summon idea, it would not be much different than in regards to one of the fleet items, eh?
To an extent then, I'm not sure why not go with a series of Photonic Fighter/Shuttle consoles rather than summoning actual fighters in the midst of nowhere where a logical explanation for them would be missing.
Discussion on topic has died pages back and tbh, no real consensus will be found here.
We are going round and round and round.
Would prolly be best if a mod did step in and lock it down so we can all move on...
i agree, we have nonsensical people like Katic trolling the whole thread, then the pro carrier people who have proven that carriers are good and should be in game, the non fed carrier people who want diversity between the factions, i agree we need that between the factions but i dont think keeping such a big and important ship type away from the feds is the way to go. and then we have people trying to make ridiculous compromises that really please no one just in an attempt to stop this constant arguing because everyones being stupid about this whole thing. so yeah this is going no where fast...
Discussion on topic has died pages back and tbh, no real consensus will be found here.
We are going round and round and round.
Would prolly be best if a mod did step in and lock it down so we can all move on...
obviously you havent been reading, we are finaly getting to a compromise, this tread needs to stay up no matter what. because then more and more people will be making more and more threads of the same thing then go in circles. at least here its getting to a compromise.
obviously you havent been reading, we are finaly getting to a compromise.
No, we are not.
This is not a democracy and if there is a Federation Carrier in the works Cryptic is not doing to drop it because some forumites are telling them what to put in the game.
Also nobody is interested in a compromise, the ones that have are simply trying to torpedo the idea.
SO where is the KDFs quid pro quo? What do we get for losing the carrier, in theory if bolder actions can't be mustered.
The we KDF can have a simple thing like a true Defiant-R clone ship?
Surely we would have made a thing as such after seeing it in action and it is an older design so its security may be lax?
This is not a democracy and if there is a Federation Carrier in the works Cryptic is not doing to drop it because some forumites are telling them what to put in the game.
Also nobody is interested in a compromise, the ones that have are simply trying to torpedo the idea.
SO where is the KDFs quid pro quo? What do we get for losing the carrier, in theory if bolder actions can't be mustered.
The we KDF can have a simple thing like a true Defiant-R clone ship?
Surely we would have made a thing as such after seeing it in action and it is an older design so its security may be lax?
KDF has:
KDF Raiders, Raptors, Battle Cruisers, and a Carrier.
Nausicaan Destroyers.
Gorn Science Vessels.
Orion Carriers.
Fek'Ihri Carrier.
Fed has:
Fed Cruisers, Escorts, and Science Vessels.
Vulcan Science Vessel.
Were the Feds to get a Carrier... they would still be behind in regard to Raiders and Destroyers.
Ask for the quid pro quo after the Feds are actually asking for more than what the KDF has...
Where this thread loses value is in the PWE/Cryptic already having commented to some extent on the Caitian Carrier as well as the Vesta... which makes it somewhat moot.
One might say that discussing what will take place with the Caitian ship and the Vesta would be better served - how they will be implemented, rather than will they be implemented.
Akira, the designer had his idea, but what many people seemed to miss in their giddinous of seeing "federation" and "carrier" in the same sentence was that the original Akira design was 3-4 times larger than it is in DS9 and FC. Now maybe someone brought it up, but I gave up reading every post 7 of my pages ago. The final say went to the people had to buld the model and write the story.
Style. ST has had a fairly consistant space combat style of its own. B5 and BSG follow their own, and SW has its own. TBH, I hate SW BECAUSE of the fighters and carriers, because it offends reality to such a high degree. Which is funny when my engineering prof is a huge SW fan and hates ST, lol. The point is that over all the horrendous retcons, all canon has been fairly consistant on the environment combat in space takes place in. Even when CGI became more readily available, a la ENT, we didn't see Earth fighters all over the place did we? Earth defense fell to starships just a step below the NX class in tech.
There are compromises in these many posts here, and once a thread has become a beast such as this, do you really think the dev's haven't taken a look? Seriously? And whether PW likes us or not, the dev's themselves do listen, and CBS has been shown to not be above telling cryptic and it's owning company to shove it when they deemed it a fit response (T5 connie anyone?). So no, this thread is not a waste of time.
Also, xixboneheadxix, Katic can't see you, so why do you even bother posting to her? Seriously, what the hell dude?
Give me a break, destroyers? This is simply not enough uniqueness to warrant giving Cryptic credit for treating the Klingons fairly. Chill. Maybe you jumped on my wording but I can't believe you would agree that the Klingons have received a fair shake.
Oh, and the Preserver concept must perish in flames. Bony ridges do not appear anywhere in flat human skulls.
Feel just above your temple. There's a ridge of bone there At least there is on me :eek: maybe I'm an alien here to steal all your womens!!
I, for one, look forward to getting a Fed carrier. I know that Cryptic likes it when I spend money with them.. And Cryptic knows I can not give them money for a Fed carrier if they do not make one.. So hopefully Cryptic will help make this a win-win, I get a Fed carrier and they get some money from me.. And most likely other people as well.
Personally, out of the Full Carrier, Cruiser-Carrier, and Corvette Support Ship ideas I had back here.. I hope they put in a Corvette Support Ship type vessel.
So, Cryptic, I have my money in hand, waving it at you, pleading with you to give me a reason to hand it to you.. Please do not let me down by not trading my money for a Fed carrier.
for the fact your trying to tell me he did musical theater is rediculous....the second you hear his voice you just know on instinct he did....PICARD IS GOD!!!!
Comments
Carrier....
......... FIGHTER..... FIGHTER
...........RAIDER........ RAIDER.
or
Carrier
FIGHTER
.........FIGHTER
RAIDER
,,,,,,,,,,RAIDER
imagine them inside LCARS icons in klingon form....i really cant explain it,
i also have it for a multitude of other basic ship functions, and as of yesterday it worked like a charm using it to do the FE.
this may be slightly off due tot he forums correction system.
A Fed carrier in my opinion should fall into that role. It's a support ship for small craft operations and to bolster the capabilities of an escort/attack group or cruiser taskgroup.
A massive battle carrier may not be 'right' to you lot due to Federation doctrine, but a engineering support vessel like the Varanus is definitely useful for any task force far from home. Star Trek Federation ships are always depicted as self sufficient and have an amazing ability to adapt to changing technology and systems damage, but sometimes you need a dedicated repair facility to replace major ship components or conduct salvage operations in the field.
A carrier / fleet support vessel can be used for that purpose, and is not strictly 'offensive' in nature. Star Trek Insurrection also featured an enormous holodeck ship, indicating the Federation can and will build very large specialised vessels if needed. A fleet support ship giving team buffs, repairs, and with a secondary ability to deploy large numbers of support craft is a very versatile 'flying fortress' type unit to back up an already strong Starfleet force.
By comparison the much-discussed Caitian Drone Carrier is definitely an offensive platform, because you use the attack drones in a 'space control' role, versus general fleet support in my proposal above.
I've rewritten this reply enough times now to be logged out of STO...
Currently, the Feds have 4 more ships at the Admiral level than the KDF has at the General level. When the Hegh, Qin, and Negh retros are added; it will be 1 more ship. With the addition of the T5 Escort, it will go back to 2 more. One of the potential carriers (Vesta), may be at the T5 level - so it could be 3 more again.
It's Star Trek. TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, 11 Prime Movies, and 1 Alt Movie. We followed the Federation.
That the KDF only has 3-4 fewer ships... is pretty damn amazing.
As for customization of those ships, skins, etc... no doubt there is a certain level of disappointment at the severe lack of customization for KDF ships . . . but again, it's Star Trek.
Supposedly, there is a great deal of work involved on resolving some of the issues with the KDF throughout Season 5 and 6. Cryptic knows on some level they have to "finish" the KDF before adding the Romulans and Cardassians.
They already put Time Lord/TARDIS technology in the game. How else do they fit whole starships inside those little lock boxes?
Give the Feds thier carrier, as they will not shut-up until they have the toys they see as better than thier own. Give the KDF the actual Warships they should have and let the pieces fall where they may. If teh Federation playerbase is like the characters of the Genre then they will rise to a challenge, if not then its just a space opera fantasy after all and Gene was right and they ares till in thier infancy and evidently need the placation a parent gives thier not yet adult children.
As Katic Said we have 5 workable compromises, when we get to 10 we should begin voitng.
so lets hear thems ideas, also if you dont go ahead and read a little bit into the thread then post an idea which already exists then we will dismiss it.
What's the point? The only way this thread affects gameplay is if some developer happens to see it and like some of the ideas in here. Throwing out ideas makes sense. Debating ideas makes sense. But trying to force some kind of consensus when none clearly exists doesn't seem to have much point.
As another poster pointed out, the fact that this has gone on for so many pages indicates that we are nowhere near putting anything to rest.
B'Elanna Torres, Miral Paris, and basic reproductive biogenetics would disagree with you on that. But that's neither here nor there.
I think the 'agile console' design -- where an aux craft console's 'summons' depend on what slot its in -- is probably the best solution. It is well in keeping with Starfleet which seems to prefer very flexible ship design; it covers why we have not seen any sort of 'flatbed' or dedicated carrier; and it allows pretty much any ship Fed ship to function as a carrier if the person wishes it.
About the only thing I see wrong with it is the whole 'pay for power' thing but that's endemic to the C-Store itself, and I'm rapidly finding myself in the minority in disliking that sort of thing.
It is quite apparent that ST writers (modern day) have no concept or understanding of xenobiology.
Seriously, why would a Klingon want to mate with a human anyways? A targ would be more fun than that.
Actually Yes I do!!
The BoP is the best designed-to-reflect-in-genre class ship in the game and since it has a hull/shield combined total in health that can be one-shot by a single Beam Overload, I find it very balanced for teh perks it has ingame.
I think some human males really would find a Klingon woman enjoyable. :rolleyes:
Anyway... did people like my suggestion to instead giving the Federation players a carrier, to instead give them the ability to request minor race assistance in the form of being able to "spawn a random minor race allied ship" to assist them in the battle?
Maybe a couple of small Andorian frigate sized ships or a Vulcan support craft or heck, any of the minor race ships that are on friendly terms with the Federation. It would give the player the support craft they are looking for would it not?
Its not much as Klingon wanting to mate with a human but a human wanting to mate with a Klingon ... and the Targ is also fair game.
Now guess what species was B'Elanna father ...
It is all an attempt by Gene Rodenberry to prepare America for a bi-racial president. Gene was really a time traveler from the future, clearly.
Discussion on topic has died pages back and tbh, no real consensus will be found here.
We are going round and round and round.
Would prolly be best if a mod did step in and lock it down so we can all move on...
To an extent then, I'm not sure why not go with a series of Photonic Fighter/Shuttle consoles rather than summoning actual fighters in the midst of nowhere where a logical explanation for them would be missing.
i agree, we have nonsensical people like Katic trolling the whole thread, then the pro carrier people who have proven that carriers are good and should be in game, the non fed carrier people who want diversity between the factions, i agree we need that between the factions but i dont think keeping such a big and important ship type away from the feds is the way to go. and then we have people trying to make ridiculous compromises that really please no one just in an attempt to stop this constant arguing because everyones being stupid about this whole thing. so yeah this is going no where fast...
obviously you havent been reading, we are finaly getting to a compromise, this tread needs to stay up no matter what. because then more and more people will be making more and more threads of the same thing then go in circles. at least here its getting to a compromise.
No, we are not.
This is not a democracy and if there is a Federation Carrier in the works Cryptic is not doing to drop it because some forumites are telling them what to put in the game.
Also nobody is interested in a compromise, the ones that have are simply trying to torpedo the idea.
The we KDF can have a simple thing like a true Defiant-R clone ship?
Surely we would have made a thing as such after seeing it in action and it is an older design so its security may be lax?
i agree with you on that one.
KDF has:
KDF Raiders, Raptors, Battle Cruisers, and a Carrier.
Nausicaan Destroyers.
Gorn Science Vessels.
Orion Carriers.
Fek'Ihri Carrier.
Fed has:
Fed Cruisers, Escorts, and Science Vessels.
Vulcan Science Vessel.
Were the Feds to get a Carrier... they would still be behind in regard to Raiders and Destroyers.
Ask for the quid pro quo after the Feds are actually asking for more than what the KDF has...
One might say that discussing what will take place with the Caitian ship and the Vesta would be better served - how they will be implemented, rather than will they be implemented.
Akira, the designer had his idea, but what many people seemed to miss in their giddinous of seeing "federation" and "carrier" in the same sentence was that the original Akira design was 3-4 times larger than it is in DS9 and FC. Now maybe someone brought it up, but I gave up reading every post 7 of my pages ago. The final say went to the people had to buld the model and write the story.
Style. ST has had a fairly consistant space combat style of its own. B5 and BSG follow their own, and SW has its own. TBH, I hate SW BECAUSE of the fighters and carriers, because it offends reality to such a high degree. Which is funny when my engineering prof is a huge SW fan and hates ST, lol. The point is that over all the horrendous retcons, all canon has been fairly consistant on the environment combat in space takes place in. Even when CGI became more readily available, a la ENT, we didn't see Earth fighters all over the place did we? Earth defense fell to starships just a step below the NX class in tech.
There are compromises in these many posts here, and once a thread has become a beast such as this, do you really think the dev's haven't taken a look? Seriously? And whether PW likes us or not, the dev's themselves do listen, and CBS has been shown to not be above telling cryptic and it's owning company to shove it when they deemed it a fit response (T5 connie anyone?). So no, this thread is not a waste of time.
Also, xixboneheadxix, Katic can't see you, so why do you even bother posting to her? Seriously, what the hell dude?
Feel just above your temple. There's a ridge of bone there
Personally, out of the Full Carrier, Cruiser-Carrier, and Corvette Support Ship ideas I had back here.. I hope they put in a Corvette Support Ship type vessel.
So, Cryptic, I have my money in hand, waving it at you, pleading with you to give me a reason to hand it to you.. Please do not let me down by not trading my money for a Fed carrier.
Tell it to these guys: