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PvP-exclusive gear set

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
What: Gear like the Borg, MACO, KHG, etc sets that are obtained exclusively via PvP. This set(s?) should be superior or equal to the currently available STF gear.

Why: A multitude of reasons:
  1. Cryptic has continually and consistently said that PWE is comitted to PvP and wants to make it better. A gear set is an excellent way to do entice more people to PvP.
  2. PvP is an excellent way to improve the overall skill level of players and will help the community become more knowledgeable of gameplay mechanics and tactics.
  3. Despite the protest from the community, Cryptic seems intent on bringing out more P2W ships and consoles. There's no better place to utilize these than PvP. By getting more people to PvP via gear sets, you'd be giving people more a reason to use the C-Store ships and equipment.
  4. PvP has been ignored for far too long. At this point, a few maps and a new game type isn't enough.
  5. STFs aren't challenging at all*. PvP is far more challenging, giving you a true sense of 'earning' the gear instead of just mashing spacebar.
  6. With MACO/KHG/Omega, you're grinding the same 3 STFs over and over again. The same 3 that we've had forever now. PvP is a constantly changing environment; there are no two identical matches. By having PvP gear sets, you eliminate the grind and sheer boredom that you get from doing the same thing over and over again. PvP experiences are always fresh.
  7. It's unfair for those of us that exclusively PvP to have to grind PvE to remain competitive since these sets are so much better than the 'standard' stuff.

How: This part is a bit more challenging. How should you earn these sets? Wins? Losses? Score? DPS? Heals? Number of matches played? There are advantages and disadvantages to each of those possibilities. Personally, I'd suggest having to complete X number of matches with more kills (and assists) than deaths.

When: Preferably, ASAP. Though Cryptic has said that PvP will finally be getting some attention (I'll believe it when I see it) during Season 6, so more gear would be an awesome addition for that Season.

What about it be like?: Nothing insane, obviously, as balance as key. Maybe more procs and such that are catered towards PvP. Lowering Shield Damage Resistance, Defense, etc etc.


*STFs aren't challenging. Seriously. On Elite, all you have to do is have the slightest bit of coordination. "Hey guys, I'm about to drop the Tac Cubes shields. Get ready to give it your all in 5 seconds." "Hey guys, let's all blow the Generators at the same time so we don't have to worry about Nanite Shields." Or, my favorite, just sit 9.5KM away from the Gateways, set weapons to autofire, and go AFK. People from the OPvP channel did STFs in T2 ships. We blaze through Elite STFs with our PvP set ups (a lot of us don't even use torps) in < 10 minutes.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    What: Gear like the Borg, MACO, KHG, etc sets that are obtained exclusively via PvP. This set(s?) should be superior to the currently available gear.
    ....


    so you want an win Button only gear for pvp. so much for balance
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RCO wrote:
    so you want an i win only gear for pvp. so much for balance

    Why would it have to be an iWin?

    Cryptic's own statements show that the reason MACO and such are so much better than normal stuff is because of the difficulty involved in getting them. As PvP is harder than STFs, these gear sets should be better.

    I'm talking about things that have procs to lower Shield Damage Resistance, Defense, etc etc.

    Far from anything 'iWin' though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    Why would it have to be an iWin?

    Cryptic's own statements show that the reason MACO and such are so much better than normal stuff is because of the difficulty involved in getting them. As PvP is harder than STFs, these gear sets should be better.

    I'm talking about things that have procs to lower Shield Damage Resistance, Defense, etc etc.

    Far from anything 'iWin' though.

    you want gear to only able to get via pvp to be better then anything else. How do you expect people to take part when they first start out?

    Know had you said gear equal to STF I say go for but not this I win stuff you want.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RCO wrote:
    you want gear to only able to get via pvp to be better then anything else. How do you expect people to take part when they first start out?

    Know had you said gear equal to STF I say go for but not this I win stuff you want.

    It wouldn't provide a massive advantage over people using other gear. Like now, if you're just casually pugging or whatever, you'll do fine with Borg or Aegis. But when you step up to premades and pugmades, having 3 piece Borg + MACO really helps out.

    But, you're right - maybe it does make sense to have it on an equivalent level to STF gear. I thought it would go along with Cryptic's state philosophy to make it better, but I suppose there are complications with that. I've editted the OP. People in STFs with Aegis/standard gear aren't directly competing against those with fully Mk XII'd people like they would in PvP :o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Gonna go ahead and bump this so we can get more opinions on it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ahem...

    Bumping is a no no *smacks MVS* :p

    That said, I'm actually in total agreement that PvP needs a set. If Season 6 is the pvp love season, a set just seems logical (maybe throw in some visuals ;)). It'd get me into PvP a lot more...even though I'm a total newb at it now a days and go boom a lot :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Answer: NO

    Look at what PvP gear did to TOR. And the gear now in STO is plenty sufficient for PvP, all Cryptic has to do is make a PvP value and a PvE value so things are easier to balance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    3 sets would be nice. All for both factions. Sets for Tanking: Sheild. Hull, Both.
    Sets for Firepower: Beam/Cannon. Torpedo. Mine.
    Sets for abilities boosts.

    lets see it happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'm for it. The only way to minimize the impact of these sets is to have so many of them that there is no one 'must have' build for everything. So the more sets the merrier. :p

    I suppose acquiring it could borrow from existing methods a bit; say, each PvP map has a particular piece of gear attached to it. Maybe X number of kills on that map to get the gear; with deaths on that map counting against you (e.g. if it's 100 kills, but you've died 20 times, then you need 120 kills total).

    I'd say there has to be more than one set (even more than one set per faction), simply because certain builds and ship types benefit more from certain types of shields. At the very least there should be one space set for each basic shield type.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    A PvP set that is superior for PvP, yes, outright superior? No.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Azurian wrote: »
    Answer: NO

    Look at what PvP gear did to TOR. And the gear now in STO is plenty sufficient for PvP, all Cryptic has to do is make a PvP value and a PvE value so things are easier to balance.

    I don't play TOR so I don't know what's happened there :o

    My issue with the gear now is that you're forced to PvE to get it. And in order to be competitive in PvP, you have to PvE. That makes no sense. Further, the grind to get said gear is just so boring. This'll provide a more fun way to get gear.
    A PvP set that is superior for PvP, yes, outright superior? No.

    That's my thinking. For example, something that reduce Shield Damage Resistance would be quite useful in PvP, but useless in PvE. NPCs don't even balance their shields, let alone stack crazy resistances.
    Askray wrote: »
    It'd get me into PvP a lot more...even though I'm a total newb at it now a days and go boom a lot :(

    Join OrganizedPvP or check out some of the builds/tactics in the PvP forum. We're always happy to have more people in Arenas - especially people that know what they're doing and don't pop in 2 seconds :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    Join OrganizedPvP or check out some of the builds/tactics in the PvP forum. We're always happy to have more people in Arenas - especially people that know what they're doing and don't pop in 2 seconds :D

    Actually I'm in OrganizedPvP :p as for not popping in 2 seconds... yeah can't guarantee that :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    They should be the SAME QUALITY as the current endgame sets (and no reason they can't be available in a graduated range of mark x to mark xii, same item, different numbers)

    The same level of quality, but with new and interesting powers and something tailored to the needs of the PVP players.

    I agree that this would really, really entice people into playing more PVP, which is right now all stick and no carrot
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    I don't play TOR so I don't know what's happened there :o

    My issue with the gear now is that you're forced to PvE to get it. And in order to be competitive in PvP, you have to PvE. That makes no sense. Further, the grind to get said gear is just so boring. This'll provide a more fun way to get gear.

    Put it simply with TOR, PVP gear caused severe imbalances. Along with their PvP-centric boosting skills.


    But I don't understand why you say you need PvP only gear when it's extremely easy to get Sets in this game, short of the STF sets. Thought he opposite would not be true for a PvEr trying to get PvP gear because they obviously would need time in PvP gain points to earn such sets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    And what about the people who don't want to pvp or dislike pvp? How is it fair to them that they are forced into something they want no part of just to get better gear to help them in pve? Not only that but now by going down this path you're going to have a lot more people in pugs VS pre made pvp teams and they will get owned. leaving a nasty taste in their mouth.

    Now i understand that you want PVP to do better in the long and that's fine, I like to pvp my self and wish to see it get more love. Tho doing it this way is not the right way. Yes STF's are easy with a pvp team and yes you can blaze them down one after the other with a good team. Forcing people into a pvp match for better gear is not the right way tho. More people then you know play this game just do to the fact it's Star Trek and don't like pvp so they don't play it.

    Keep in mind all of that but you're going to be opening the door's for mass nerfing as well. When you force someone into pvp when they don't want to do it they don't know what to do and they don't want to learn what to do and all the know is they are killed in flash vs a good team and then they come on the site and try X is broken and Y is OP and so on.

    Now before you say you'r forced to play STFs when you don't want to to get better gear keep in the pvp player base is much much much smaller then pve base and like Spock said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" so the pvp player base is going to have suck it up and deal with STFs. No its not 100% fair but again smaller player base.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Azurian wrote: »
    But I don't understand why you say you need PvP only gear when it's extremely easy to get Sets in this game, short of the STF sets. Thought he opposite would not be true for a PvEr trying to get PvP gear because they obviously would need time in PvP gain points to earn such sets.

    Because right now, there's no reason to PvP other than for the pew pew and lulz.

    Further, PvP is the most challenging aspect of the game, no contest. There should be some sort of reward for excelling at it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Cross82 wrote:
    And what about the people who don't want to pvp or dislike pvp? How is it fair to them that they are forced into something they want no part of just to get better gear to help them in pve? Not only that but now by going down this path you're going to have a lot more people in pugs VS pre made pvp teams and they will get owned. leaving a nasty taste in their mouth.

    -snip-

    Now before you say you'r forced to play STFs when you don't want to to get better gear keep in the pvp player base is much much much smaller then pve base and like Spock said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" so the pvp player base is going to have suck it up and deal with STFs. No its not 100% fair but again smaller player base.

    If people don't want to PvP for the gear, then they don't have to. Simply as that. They've already got Aegis, Borg, Breen, KHG, MACO, Omega, and now the Jem'Hadar sets that they can get. They don't need to have the PvP gear.

    You answer your own question when it comes to being 'fair' ;) But to further answer it, the PvP set would have benefits that are geared towards giving you an advantage in PvP. Things like Shield Damage Reduction and Accuracy bonuses don't have much use in PvE.

    But, you're right, it is problematic to design a way to obtain the sets. Pugs v Premade will always end poorly for the pugs. That's why I suggested having a positive K/D ratio in X number of matches, not necessarily wins.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If you want it to be as good or better than the STF sets, then meeting some performance bar in a PvP match should only enable you a slim chance at getting a token which you can redeem for one piece of the set.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    If people don't want to PvP for the gear, then they don't have to. Simply as that. They've already got Aegis, Borg, Breen, KHG, MACO, Omega, and now the Jem'Hadar sets that they can get. They don't need to have the PvP gear.

    You answer your own question when it comes to being 'fair' ;) But to further answer it, the PvP set would have benefits that are geared towards giving you an advantage in PvP. Things like Shield Damage Reduction and Accuracy bonuses don't have much use in PvE.

    But, you're right, it is problematic to design a way to obtain the sets. Pugs v Premade will always end poorly for the pugs. That's why I suggested having a positive K/D ratio in X number of matches, not necessarily wins.

    It would be better to give something on the lines of a EDC. say you get 1 if you lose the match and 2-3 if you win the match. Splitting gear into PvP and PvE is not something I was never big on.

    What should be done is have zone with pvp and whatever said side owns the zone then they they can buy stuff cheaper. Say a MACO MK XII shield for 20 ECD and not 40. Give them something REALLY worth fighting over and not just gear sets alone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Cross82 wrote:
    It would be better to give something on the lines of a EDC. say you get 1 if you lose the match and 2-3 if you win the match. Splitting gear into PvP and PvE is not something I was never big on.

    What should be done is have zone with pvp and whatever said side owns the zone then they they can buy stuff cheaper. Say a MACO MK XII shield for 20 ECD and not 40. Give them something REALLY worth fighting over and not just gear sets alone.

    Speaking of... I could see them doing something like that with the territory control system (if it ever comes to be). Maybe even new sets that are awarded for capturing key systems.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Manx wrote: »
    Speaking of... I could see them doing something like that with the territory control system (if it ever comes to be). Maybe even new sets that are awarded for capturing key systems.

    Take at little more and make in the game ships cheaper as well. right now a T5 ship goes for i think 120,000 D that would be knocked down to say 60,000 for the owning side. The zone would have its own star base as well for thing kind of thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Or how about giving pvp its own darn sets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'm still trying to figure out why there is task-exclusive gear at all.

    Having the best gear exclusive to a specific task devalues all of the other high end gear that's available for DIlithium and crafting (which, oh yeah, uses DIlithium). This in turn devalues Dilithium, which isn't a great idea since the Dilithium Exchange is supposed to be our method of attaining CStore stuff in-game, thus the idea should be to avoid doing things which compromise the worth of DIlithium.

    STFs already offer repeatable avenues for Dilithium which Explores and the like don't offer, and the same could be applied to PvP (beyond the few avenues it already has). Those rewards could even be increased. Might even make sense to have some kind of rare token drop in Elite STFs and to regularly high performing PvPers which might, when used, allow for added Dilithium to be refined per day to further increase the associated benefits. Thus the more difficult content has a "leg up" in collecting Dilithium, and would be rewarded with greater purchasing power which could go toward the top gear via Dilithium vendors, or into the Dilithium Exchange allowing them to take greater advantage of the CStore.

    That would give adequate compensation for the task without compromising the value of Dilithium, thus harming the DIlithium/CPoint exchange rate.

    This would also help alleviate the rather nasty feedback concerning the salvage drop rate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Good idea mvs, I too would like to see something added as a reward towards preformance or Winning in space/ground pvp, sets dont have to be broken because they are better for pvp you can add some sort of buffs that is just working in pvp.

    Another thing I would like to see is the PUG que where you can only que up solo to fight against other people who have qued up solo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I think it's a good idea. I think the more sets the better, so there are choices at endgame, depending what the player likes to do. I think the idea of having 1 token if you lose and 2-3 if you win is a good idea (and absolutely no lotto element). It also gives you a reason to keep playing and make you feel like you've accomplished something when you finally get the set (again, as long as there is no lotto element to it).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ive never been a fan of these sets AT ALL, they make every other piece of ship equipment nearly worthless by comparison.

    but sets arent going anywhere, and pvp deserves attention, so their should be sets associated with it. as far a sets go, 3 sets total, 1 focusing on attacking, tanking and debuffing might be good. mixed and matched with ship and captain type could create some interesting combinations.

    unique bonus could include attack pattern debuffs effecting shields too, and any other number of things that slightly boost station powers. nothing needs to be over the top, and it would be best if the bonuses specifically boost you in ways only useful in pvp.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Here's a thought; what if, instead of 'sets' in the traditional sense, it catered more to the build tweaking habits of PvPers?

    Say there were are selection of engines, deflectors, and consoles, which could be used in pretty much any combination; and then 'blank' shields, which have no special traits of their own, but which gain qualities depending on what other PvP gear you have equipped. Some of these qualities could be pretty generic, while others would be specifically designed with PvP in mind.

    You want something that just has cap, regen, and resists equivalent to PvE sets? You can do that. You want something that'll give you a resistance to more exotic things like sub-nuc, or theta? You can do that too. Want something that'll do a bit of both? Sure, why not.

    Kinda like the custom kits the devs have talked about from time to time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Manx wrote: »
    Here's a thought; what if, instead of 'sets' in the traditional sense, it catered more to the build tweaking habits of PvPers?

    Say there were are selection of engines, deflectors, and consoles, which could be used in pretty much any combination; and then 'blank' shields, which have no special traits of their own, but which gain qualities depending on what other PvP gear you have equipped. Some of these qualities could be pretty generic, while others would be specifically designed with PvP in mind.

    You want something that just has cap, regen, and resists equivalent to PvE sets? You can do that. You want something that'll give you a resistance to more exotic things like sub-nuc, or theta? You can do that too. Want something that'll do a bit of both? Sure, why not.

    Kinda like the custom kits the devs have talked about from time to time.

    That's an interesting idea, never thought of that before.

    It'd be awesome to be able to swap out your shields depending on what you're facing, but not lose your set bonuses. Regeneratives vs heavy shield drain, Resilients vs sustained DPS, etc etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RCO wrote:
    so you want an win Button only gear for pvp. so much for balance

    Dude, balance went out the airlock a long time ago. I second the ops idea.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    No thanks, one of the things I liked about STO was the fact that it didn't have pvp/pve sets...just one realistic "set." And it's not like I am the only one...pretty sure next ot everyone wanted it this way from the start.
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