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Would you prefer a fixed cost of $250 instead of lock boxes for special ships?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Other F2P games have items that cost a thousand dollars and more. Investigations here on the forums suggest that every 200th box contains a ship (in that case the Jem Hadar Bug, but possibly same odds for Galor). That would make the average cost of a special ship $250.

My question: If given the choice, would you prefer to pay $250 at a time and receive a single ship for that or would you prefer the current grab bag system where you could get that ship in the first box or in your 1000th?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    gaius wrote: »
    Other F2P games have items that cost a thousand dollars and more. Investigations here on the forums suggest that every 200th box contains a ship (in that case the Jem Hadar Bug, but possibly same odds for Galor). That would make the average cost of a special ship $250.

    My question: If given the choice, would you prefer to pay $250 at a time and receive a single ship for that or would you prefer the current grab bag system where you could get that ship in the first box or in your 1000th?

    I'd suggest an alternative -- you can redeem # boxes and keys for a Galor, or that after the X box opened, it is guaranteed to be a Galor. You have incentive to open them up to try to get lucky, but if you have terrible luck you can still get it after a fixed/known amount of money invested.

    Cryptic has gone the way of a macrotransaction store for over a year now, I would hate to see items that cost over an already very steep $25 (2000 CP).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Considering that theres a chance that no matter how many keys you buy, you wont get one, I think anyone with reason, would find that a better solution yes.
    Sprint01 wrote:
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.

    This however is the preferred solution.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    anazonda wrote: »
    Considering that theres a chance that no matter how many keys you buy, you wont get one, I think anyone with reason, would find that a better solution yes.



    This however is the preferred solution.

    I weep for America

    (or wherever you're from for that matter XD)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    gaius wrote: »
    Other F2P games have items that cost a thousand dollars and more. Investigations here on the forums suggest that every 200th box contains a ship (in that case the Jem Hadar Bug, but possibly same odds for Galor). That would make the average cost of a special ship $250.

    My question: If given the choice, would you prefer to pay $250 at a time and receive a single ship for that or would you prefer the current grab bag system where you could get that ship in the first box or in your 1000th?

    Nah, the ships aren't that important to me. They probably would be cool at first, but eventually I'd stop using them. Not worth the money. If I'm feeling randy, I may take a little of my stipend and try my luck at the boxes, but overall I don't really care.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    squiddude wrote:
    I weep for America

    (or wherever you're from for that matter XD)

    Well, thats not really my problem is it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sprint01 wrote:
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.

    This right here.

    Silvers don't pay an entry fee, so its ok to ask them to shell out for 'micro'-trans, but we pay a monthly fee or in the LTC cases paid a lump initial investment.

    Were *I* running things we would *instantly* get priority support and access, for free, to all things in the C-Store past present and future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This right here.

    Silvers don't pay an entry fee, so its ok to ask them to shell out for 'micro'-trans, but we pay a monthly fee or in the LTC cases paid a lump initial investment.

    Were *I* running things we would *instantly* get priority support and access, for free, to all things in the C-Store past present and future.

    I paid 15 bucks a month for 500 days. I've since stopped.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    No but I don't see why they don't have a blind C-Points auction for some of these ships at some point. With those, someone is guaranteed to get one and IF I get outspent, I:

    - Still have my C-Points for other purchases.
    - Know somebody else wanted it more.

    Otherwise, I'll tend to set my sights on smaller rewards like the scarves or the consoles and generally pretend the ships don't exist.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sprint01 wrote:
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.

    While it wont always be true, I have a feeling that if you buy $15 of C-points every single month, you will usually always get whatever the item is in these grab bags when they come around.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    gaius wrote: »
    Other F2P games have items that cost a thousand dollars and more. Investigations here on the forums suggest that every 200th box contains a ship (in that case the Jem Hadar Bug, but possibly same odds for Galor). That would make the average cost of a special ship $250.

    My question: If given the choice, would you prefer to pay $250 at a time and receive a single ship for that or would you prefer the current grab bag system where you could get that ship in the first box or in your 1000th?

    Considering you can get the dilithium w/o spending money then convert to C-store points, it's technically free for a few customers.

    It's still 1/200 odds of getting the ship but it may also be free for some.

    If they added one in-game methods of getting the keys, it'd be even better--such as an ultra-rare elite optional objective unlock.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    While it wont always be true, I have a feeling that if you buy $15 of C-points every single month, you will usually always get whatever the item is in these grab bags when they come around.

    I don't see how, Nagus. The average cost of obtaining a grab bag ship is probably around $200.

    Ignoring the ships, I'd agree with you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Neither. I'd rather phaser myself in the foot. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    gaius wrote: »
    Other F2P games have items that cost a thousand dollars and more. Investigations here on the forums suggest that every 200th box contains a ship (in that case the Jem Hadar Bug, but possibly same odds for Galor). That would make the average cost of a special ship $250.

    My question: If given the choice, would you prefer to pay $250 at a time and receive a single ship for that or would you prefer the current grab bag system where you could get that ship in the first box or in your 1000th?

    This is a more complex issue than just the potential overall cost itself. The second issue is where is the money spent on these things going. If the money we are spending on these lottery boxes is going towards games besides STO, then nobody should be supporting these purchases. Also, it's rather disingenuous of Cryptic and Perfect World to not disclose how the money is being used. If you aren't hiring people, squashing game breaking bugs like the cloak or auto fire, or putting out more free content with this money, then it's possible that a good chunk of the money earned from lottery boxes is going to other games.

    To address your question directly OP, $250 is aboslutely riculous. A more reasonable price is $25-30 a pop in the c-store with an agreement that says my money can only go towards STO maintenance and/or development. Alright, that's all I have to say. Good dicussion topic :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This is a more complex issue than just the potential overall cost itself. The second issue is where is the money spent on these things going. If the money we are spending on these lottery boxes is going towards games besides STO, then nobody should be supporting these purchases.

    What about people who are also Champions and prospective Neverwinter players?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I would not ever pay $250 for a ship thats just insane some people like the gamble i dont like it so i dont support it and wont be buying the keys, i did how ever buy the MVAE from the c-store.

    _______________________________________________________________

    Originally Posted by Jonathan_Kent
    This right here.

    Silvers don't pay an entry fee, so its ok to ask them to shell out for 'micro'-trans, but we pay a monthly fee or in the LTC cases paid a lump initial investment.

    Were *I* running things we would *instantly* get priority support and access, for free, to all things in the C-Store past present and future.

    _______________________________________________________________

    And why is it always yes its ok for silvers? i used to subscribe to the game and since returning less than a month ago have spent £20 on the c-store which is more than 2 months subs in under a month? its not about gold or silver get off your high horses and stop putting everything down to silver verse gold.

    This is a well used business model in the free to play market some games have wheels you spin for a chance others have bags boxes and wheels!

    They went free to play to save the game and increase the population and iits done a good job of i if you dnt like it just dont buy the boxes and let others that do buy them.

    And if you were running things and people with a sub have access to all ships, items, then people would sub for the month rinse the store and unsub makes no sense business or common.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sprint01 wrote:
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.

    +1

    (add to that: or lifetime sub as well)

    I wish I felt like my lifetime sub meant more these days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    No but I don't see why they don't have a blind C-Points auction for some of these ships at some point. With those, someone is guaranteed to get one and IF I get outspent, I:

    - Still have my C-Points for other purchases.
    - Know somebody else wanted it more.

    Otherwise, I'll tend to set my sights on smaller rewards like the scarves or the consoles and generally pretend the ships don't exist.

    But then they wouldn't make obscene amounts of cash as people continue to spend irresponsibly and manically in a frenzy to get the latest digital trophy. :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    But then they wouldn't make obscene amounts of cash as people continue to spend irresponsibly and manically in a frenzy to get the latest digital trophy. :eek:

    However, If they did go and spend it in a frenzy, they:

    1: Would know what they get.

    2: Be able to aquire a limited amount of C-Points as their upper limit before the auction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sprint01 wrote:
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.

    Amen to this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    What about people who are also Champions and prospective Neverwinter players?

    I'm not sure you understand the issue. I think most of us believe our money is going towards furthering STO development, paying staff, and squashing bugs. Those are separate games with their own money making systems. You can't expect me to want to fund the development of another game with money that I thought was going towards STO, can you? Sigh....

    Ok, so what are you trying to say with the above statement? That it's ok for Cryptic to take a large bulk of the money made from STO lottery boxes and use that money for developing games likes Neverwinter and Champions? That's like saying STO isn't even worth putting very many resources into because we know the game is doing to die. If it's going to die, let's just milk it for all it's worth, use that money for more popular games like Neverwinter and Champions, and if STO dies, then so be it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    gaius wrote: »
    Other F2P games have items that cost a thousand dollars and more. Investigations here on the forums suggest that every 200th box contains a ship (in that case the Jem Hadar Bug, but possibly same odds for Galor). That would make the average cost of a special ship $250.

    My question: If given the choice, would you prefer to pay $250 at a time and receive a single ship for that or would you prefer the current grab bag system where you could get that ship in the first box or in your 1000th?
    I don’t think that you have made a fair calculation here. You are assuming that there are 250 packages with nothing in it. If they sold those packages with no BIG prize in it they probably would have sold 10% to people that just wanted to see what they got and they were all full of prizes and items that we could use or sell. I was not really interested in the Bug sip but I still bought 10 or so packages.

    The think about these packages is every package is a winner there are just a small percentage of people that win the BIG prize. So when you do the calculations please don’t assume that your worth of the packages and everyone else’s worth is the same. Also you have put an average and I know people at least two people that got the Bug ship in their first box. I also hear about people that should have stopped after one box.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The value of these ships is given arbitrarily by Cryptic and comes from their rarity (which they control). If say the Original Series enterprise wouldn't have been sold for 400 CP from the start but for 2000, 3000 CP people would have payed that.
    If it had never been introduced at all except through a loot bag it would be worth just as much (probably more) then the Galor.

    The same can be said for pretty much any ship or item in the game. If say the Galor dropped in half the bags, but some other unique item in the bag dropped just as rarely as the Galor does now, say a new pet, a new bridge officer, almost anything at all, some people would've raged just as hard about not being able to get it, while scoffing at the "worthless" Galor, because they essentially have the mentality of toddlers.

    It is frankly downright scary that people are willing to part with 200 dollars for a virtual item with no objective value, not even in the game's context (in the sense that it's no better in a gameplay sense than the ships everyone gets for free).

    I would rather the fixed prices on the CP store for ships stay as they are thank you. 2000 CP for a ship is more than enough, 200$ is insane.
    If they have to part fools and their money every once in a while with grab bags and things that's their business just don't spam me with system messages. Please?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'm not sure you understand the issue. I think most of us believe our money is going towards furthering STO development, paying staff, and squashing bugs. Those are separate games with their own money making systems. You can't expect me to want to fund the development of another game with money that I thought was going towards STO, can you? Sigh....

    Ok, so what are you trying to say with the above statement? That it's ok for Cryptic to take a large bulk of the money made from STO lottery boxes and use that money for developing games likes Neverwinter and Champions? That's like saying STO isn't even worth putting very many resources into because we know the game is doing to die. If it's going to die, let's just milk it for all it's worth, use that money for more popular games like Neverwinter and Champions, and if STO dies, then so be it.

    I'm sure the majority of it is. If you spend money on STO, you make STO seem like a good investment worth spending more money on.

    I don't think anybody from Cryptic is going to guarantee that not a penny that they make from STO will go to other games though.

    If Cryptic isn't free to spend STO profits on other games, better food in the cafeteria, new fluorescent lights, etc. then there would be no point in making STO or being a professional game developer as opposed to an amateur one running a non-profit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Look, to put it more bluntly, this is the situation we have. A game that was nearly drowning from loss of player base, loss of income from losing it's parent company, and that has struggled with a lot of layoffs. Now we have a transition to F2p with a new parent company. I have no idea what Perfect World's long-term objectives are with STO, but I'm not liking what I'm seeing.

    This is what I see. I see Stephen D'Angelo setting an ultra conservative 2 FE series schedule for 2012. Add to that the Jem Hadar and now Galor lottery box debacle. I see D'Angelo in the massively rpg interview in January, as well as Tumerboy in a priority one interview, saying that they are extremely low on staff. Tumerboy said he's the only environmental/graphics artist there (can't remember his exact position). In addition, we have Captain logan and maybe a few others working on ships that are Cryptic Store-only purchases (with the exception of the Odyssey and Bortas) that come out every 2-3 months. I also see a conversion to the dilithium currency and a new duty officer system which is supposed to incentivize people to want to make more purchases in the cryptic store.

    This is what I don't see. For all the blame that Cryptic places on being grossly understaffed, I don't see a major hiring spree that should have come about after the influx of F2P players, the Red box sales, and now the Master Key sales. I don't see anything related to hiring a new EP, hiring new Ship artists, or new content artists like Tumerboy. What's even stranger now is that all the retrofits are only purchasable with Cryptic points. That, along with all of the sales from other C-store items and the lottery box sales should have been enough money to be able to hire at least 3-4 more people.

    Honestly, I think the bulk of c-store sales is going to games other than STO. Cryptic is understaffed because Perfect World is using the majority of the microstransactional revenue to hire new content people for Neverwinter and Champions. Now, let me be clear here. I don't think this is Cryptic's fault anymore. I think Perfect World is calling the shots, and I believe Cryptic stilll has a hiring freeze. We might see 1-2 get hired, but not the 6-10 people we need to get this game seriously jump started probably won't ever be hired.

    This is my predication for 2012-2013. If STO is able to survive until neverwinter 2 comes out and starts generating it's own money, we will see the Cryptic STO team begin a major hiring spree. A new EP, if not added by then, will be hired. The question remains, though, will STO survive until then. Anybody's guess is as good as mine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I would prefer that they just put it on the c-store. Than, if they must, add the ships to very very rare drops. Skip the whole, oh i got this drop but i cant open it with out a key, which i have to pay for so its really not a drop at all, bs. Either give us a drop or dont. If i liked to gamble I would play something else. I preferr economy in EVE where the ships are horribly expencive but at least you know how much time and effort it will take. And if you want to drop the cash and be done with it, you can do that too. Granted, EVE is not as much fun but there are many things about the economy in EVE that I prefer.

    There used to be some pride associated with making level cap. It took along time and you had something to show for it. I remember just flying around sol in my first VA level starship. Those where the days. Now, it feels more like a job. I am not about to try and explain it all. I like some of the changes as of late but the deeper we go into f2p territory, the more i feel like we should just let the borg have the place....

    And for the record, I have purchased 4 or 5 ships from the C-store. I did spend my stiffend on keys that did not result in anything i actually wanted. But i will not be putting any additional funds tward one of these ships. And please stop with the system announcements, its very annoying. That is all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sprint01 wrote:
    No.

    I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month and get a guaranteed amount of content and customer service.

    Bioware makes a game that delivers on that model.

    ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    superchum wrote: »
    Bioware makes a game that delivers on that model.

    ;)

    And that is who is getting my discretionary spending at the moment. But, hey, like Tery said, Cryptic didn't get a fair shake. They didn't have a privately owned company shelling out X number of dollars to develop the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The reason I was asking the question in the first place is this article here: http://www.gamesbrief.com/2012/02/subscriptions-are-not-the-future-they-are-the-past/

    Nicolas Lovell does some pretty good observations on games from a business point of view and if you read the article you'd have to agree he's right and for that matter Cryptic is right.

    Money Quote:
    I believe that the true demand curve for media products is a power curve: most people want the product for free, some are happy at exactly the current price ($40 for a game, $15 for an MMO subscription), and a few would happily spend more money. Much more money.

    The subscription fee is not just a barrier to getting people into your game: it is a barrier to letting the people who love what you do pay lots of money for the value they are getting.

    You don’t have to take my work for it. Subscription businesses like Dungeons and Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online and DC Universe Online have gone free-to-play and are reportedly making significantly higher revenue as a result. Companies that never started with a subscription model like Bigpoint are making $200 million in annual revenue and sell items that can cost as much as €1,000 like the Tenth Drone.

    Subscriptions are limiting because they cap your revenue per user, and in a digital world, I think that is a bad thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    While you make a compelling point with the article there ... let's keep in mind some of the Cryptic-Specific details.

    This game approaches its marketing of its products with a sledgehammer approach. And that does indeed rankle it's long-time players.

    Microtransactions are a fact of life in these kinds of games. But Cryptic and PWE need to really start trying harder on the way they offer items to their customers. The company itself admitted it wanted a foothold in the western market. These grab bags are an eastern tactic. There will be push back from a market that doesn't really like the gambling approach.

    But also, the spam and Geko's post on the forums, just seems so fake. That reduces their credibility with the players. That's bad.

    Hate to say it but that congrats thread would have gone over better with me if it had been Branflakes posting it. That's at least a bit more along the lines of PR and community relations.

    They also need to consider borrowing more from the F2P MMOs that thrive over on this side of the globe. LOTRO releases new steeds all the time. And don't get anywhere near the backlash and vitriol Cryptic is getting with the Jem'Hadar and Galor ships.
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