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Cryptic, let's talk marketing.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Ten Forward
You do realize your current shenanigans are just making people upset by and large right? I can't speak for everyone, but I know the moment another game catches my interest I am gone. In fact, I'm kinda just waiting for ME3 to come out and for TOR boxes to cost less.

Look, it's not that I'm trying to sell these games, it's just that I'm really upset at you. You, Cryptic, the entity that is an entire company beholden to a Chinese MMO producer, Perfect World, are way too much into money grabs. If I ever hear about someone suing you for violating gambling laws, I will laugh and laugh and laugh. It will be fun. I promise you.

I realize that you need to make money. I get that. Every business is in business because they do make money. On the other hand, some businesses care a lot more about the quality of their product than you apparently do. Whether or not their product is customer service or the product itself, there are many other examples of how other businesses care more. You think Bioware is doing phenomenal by mistake? And let's be honest, breaking canon in a way that defies in the JJ'est of explanations, grab bags, leaving gold members without as much value as what they probably deserve is not a great way to show your love for your product. And what about FEs? How come you were able to push out 3 in the span of 8 months, but now you can only do 2 in a year when you have much, much more help. Plus, int he Romulan series, you all saw a great surge in subs. So, you know that FEs bring in the players. You know that FEs are something people really want. But,..it's almost as if you don't care. You care more about +1 ships and TRIBBLE like that. Stuff that ruins game balance. This is why I don't think you care about your product.

It will hurt you if it hasn't already. Neverwinter isn't going to do well unless you start a massive PR campaign to rebrand Cryptic into a company that people can like. I mean just look at SOE, DCUO is a fine game and offers its players far more value for their money than you do, as an f2p game, but there are people playing this game that will never play it for the sole reason that SOE is the producer. See where I'm headed? You might as well load a 12 gauge shot gun with oo buck shot and aim it right at your well trimmed toenails. (please don't do that by the by, it sounds painful.)

This is not even so much as a criticism as it is a plea. Please stop TRIBBLE up my game. yeah, my game. I paid for this game for at least a year and half. I love Star Trek and I love being the captain of a Star Ship. Don't you? Maybe you don't and that's why you try and ruin this. But please stop, because if you stopped, I would stick with you. I would open my wallet to you and never tell my girlfriend why it is that I haven't bought a ring yet. It's totally cool if you guys are cool. But you all aren't cool. You aren't making my game worth while and all I want to do is wait for the next demo that comes out on Valentine's Day to jump ship and tell you where to shove it, and then sneak in to play the FEs on Saturdays and stop in March.

Making my point relatively clear? I hope so. You could have my money. You could have a lot more people's money than what you already have and instead of grab bagging the money out of a few players, woo the money out of a lot of players, but you don't. If you continue to do this, Cryptic, I hope this hurts you. I hope that your lack of passion drives your company into the ground and that your employees have a hard time looking for work. Because, I don't know them, and they work for Cryptic, therefore my emotional detachment makes it okay for me to associate the failure that you provided me with in a game that should be, should have always been, epic.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    all that matters is that they make money.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Staran wrote: »
    all that matters is that they make money.

    Apparently. Which is the dumbest thing ever for them. Look at how other studios prosper in terms of cash and reputation. And then look at Cryptic. People make up excuses for them based on Cryptic not having enough money and their reputation is terrible. How do they expect to bring in the big bucks in the long term?

    I remember one Penny Arcade name dropping the development of the new Neverwinter Knights and it said that it "was being developed by Cryptic of all people". Is that the reputation you want for your company? Do you really want to spend all that money in development of Neverwinter Knights just to have the game ruined before it even hits the market by your own reputation?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Well, people DID suggest marketing ads be put in-game just the other day. It seems to me this is exactly what Cryptic has done. This is what they mean by 'be careful of what you wish for'.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Jeslyn wrote:
    Well, people DID suggest marketing ads be put in-game just the other day. It seems to me this is exactly what Cryptic has done. This is what they mean by 'be careful of what you wish for'.

    Cool, I think I was just suggesting marketing in terms of company brand name.

    I actually wouldn't mind marketing ads in game at places where Ferengi are located so long as I didn't have to deal with being disgusted by cash grabs, pay 2 win, and other blatant failures by Cryptic. I deal with commercials when I watch hulu or on those rare moments that I actually turn on the tv to watch television. Commercials don't bother me. Cryptic's ruining of the game through terrible marketing decisions does.

    Shoot, Cryptic could load STO up with ads that tell me how I could perform better in bed like James T Kirk as long as the game was good. Guess what though? It's not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Do you really want to spend all that money in development of Neverwinter Knights just to have the game ruined before it even hits the market by your own reputation?

    The biggest problem here is that they do not believe they are doing anything harmful to themselves or the IP. As far as they are concerned everything is just peachy and we're all just whiners and rabblerousers. Unfortunately for us and Star Trek, they won't realize this until it's far too late.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Talaxia wrote:
    The biggest problem here is that they do not believe they are doing anything harmful to themselves or the IP. As far as they are concerned everything is just peachy and we're all just whiners and rabblerousers. Unfortunately for us and Star Trek, they won't realize this until it's far too late.

    makes you wonder why they really couldn't stick it out with NCsoft. I don't know the full story, but I do know that the company that came out of that whole thing has not delivered on MMOs the way Cryptic did when CoH was released.

    Not that CoH is the awesome now, but it was pretty fun back in the day.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Curious, does PW read these things at all.

    Hey, PW!

    This is not China. In the same fashion that I, as an American, can not assume that my ways would work well or be acceptable in China, the same goes for here in the US. Your method of making MMOs will not work as well in the US when you have so many competing games offering much, much more value. I would advice you to read my post, look at how studios have done in the US, what they have done, and reevaluate your strategy.

    By the way, online gambling is illegal and I'll bet dollars to donuts and country biscuits that you're going to get sued. Something to marinate on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Cool, I think I was just suggesting marketing in terms of company brand name.

    I actually wouldn't mind marketing ads in game at places where Ferengi are located so long as I didn't have to deal with being disgusted by cash grabs, pay 2 win, and other blatant failures by Cryptic. I deal with commercials when I watch hulu or on those rare moments that I actually turn on the tv to watch television. Commercials don't bother me. Cryptic's ruining of the game through terrible marketing decisions does.

    Shoot, Cryptic could load STO up with ads that tell me how I could perform better in bed like James T Kirk as long as the game was good. Guess what though? It's not.



    See, you say that sarcastically, but I would love to know Kirk's secret. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Jeslyn wrote:
    See, you say that sarcastically, but I would love to know Kirk's secret. :p

    in the future, we can all replicate pheromones to mess with unsuspecting alien females! What I want to know is how Chekov managed to get so fresh with that girl in "The Apple" episode.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    in the future, we can all replicate pheromones to mess with unsuspecting alien females! What I want to know is how Chekov managed to get so fresh with that girl in "The Apple" episode.



    Would you believe that he can replicate pheromones to mess with unsuspecting females? :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Jeslyn wrote:
    Would you believe that he can replicate pheromones to mess with unsuspecting females? :D

    I was out feeding the horses (My girlfriend and I help board two horses) and I was thinking that Cryptic kinda reminds me of trying to date a crazy, picky, and needy girl (and by this, I mean absolutely no offense to any of the crazy, needy, picky girls out there, I'm just using this as a basis of comparison). You buy her stuff, but the chances of her even caring are so slim that you're basically gambling your money away, and then even when you do happen to succeed she changes the rules up so that she can accept your gift and still date the Captain of the football team.

    By the by, not a real life experience if you want to believe that or not, but I suspect that if I had tried for some crazy needy picky girl like that in high school or in college, which I did, but those girls weren't looking for just money and I was pretty successful (narcissistic much?), but if I had tried for the money grabbing ones, I suspect I would be having flashbacks now.

    Incidentally, for this little while when I was in this mode of got to get... well, I just wanted to role play a little Kirk... we'll say that. I decided that it would be more to my benefit to get my nerd out in the open and play it up. Believe it or not, it works just fine. It's not the what you are, but the confidence in which you display it in, and whether or not you can be funny to talk to. If you're just looking to play some Kirk action that is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Cryptic's reputation is already ruined. The things they are doing with STO aren't helping either. You have one or two from these boards trying to defend them outside on other boards. Everything I have read about them is really negative.

    I think Cryptic's reputation is worse than Sony's. I know I will play a Sony game before I would ever play another game from Cryptic. Sony lost their customers information and will have to do a lot of PR to change their image. This could end up making them work harder on Planet Side 2 and make it a great game.

    Neverwinter may be the greatest game of all time and I wont play it.

    I wanted to support and give my money to Cryptic, they had me at STO. They completely mismanaged the game and made almost no content. I haven't spent any money since July of 2010. Because it's not worth spending money on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    People like to rag on Blizzard, and now because TOR is popular, BioWare, but you know something; no one just up and handed these companies millions of dollars. They weren't created wealthy. They saw an opportunity to do something right, and they've profited off of it. I don't really care how you feel about WoW, or even the Warcraft series, or the original Neverwinter Nights or any of it. These titles weren't smash successes because of a fluke. Starcraft didn't become a national sport in Korea because someone just up and decided "it must be so". Mass Effect isn't a premier title because everyone that likes it is some sort of fruit cake, and Baldur's Gate II stands as one of the best computer RPG's to date.

    You'd think the rest of the industry would take a cue. The key to making money isn't turning out garbage as fast as you can. It's to take your time, know your product and its target audience. In fact, it is purely because WoW is the juggernaut it is that I can't fathom how the Blizzard method hasn't been adopted as a standard in the industry.

    It's really quite a shame.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mordakar wrote: »
    People like to rag on Blizzard, and now because TOR is popular, BioWare, but you know something; no one just up and handed these companies millions of dollars. They weren't created wealthy. They saw an opportunity to do something right, and they've profited off of it. I don't really care how you feel about WoW, or even the Warcraft series, or the original Neverwinter Nights or any of it. These titles weren't smash successes because of a fluke. Starcraft didn't become a national sport in Korea because someone just up and decided "it must be so". Mass Effect isn't a premier title because everyone that likes it is some sort of fruit cake, and Baldur's Gate II stands as one of the best computer RPG's to date.

    You'd think the rest of the industry would take a cue. The key to making money isn't turning out garbage as fast as you can. It's to take your time, know your product and its target audience. In fact, it is purely because WoW is the juggernaut it is that I can't fathom how the Blizzard method hasn't been adopted as a standard in the industry.

    It's really quite a shame.

    Well, let's be clear, World of Startrek Online is not what I'm shooting for, but I get your message. Cryptic should work harder. It shouldn't be excuses about them being poor, it should be boasts about them rising to the challenge. Guess what they failed to do?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Reputation? They're a company. They care about making $$$$, no matter if our opinion of them is poor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I wonder if at this point advertising might be a bad idea. After you've behaved in an absolutely atrocious manner and tried to turn yourself into the gold standard for failure you may want to avoid drawing attention to yourself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Erixander wrote:
    I wonder if at this point advertising might be a bad idea. After you've behaved in an absolutely atrocious manner and tried to turn yourself into the gold standard for failure you may want to avoid drawing attention to yourself.

    I wasn't thinking that they should go out and advertise right this second. I was talking about they're method of making money and how it is the opposite of how they should be marketing this game (yes, the quality of your product is one key to marketing anything).

    Good point though, if Cryptic tried to advertise now... lol, I really want to see Penny Arcade do a comic specifically about that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    BClark_09 wrote:
    Reputation? They're a company. They care about making $$$$, no matter if our opinion of them is poor.

    What does being a company have to do with not caring about reputation? Microsoft has a reputation, so does Apple, so does Google, so does Facebook, so does every company in existence. These companies care about their reputation and their product. Read the letter from Facebook's IPO. Mark Z. cares about Facebook's reputation. Look at Bill Gates walking around with Seinfeld and failing to look like a normal average Joe. Microsoft might fail, but cares about their reputation. Google trying to emphasize how the privacy changes mean good things and not privacy concerns for all. They care. Apple investigating current claims of worker abuse in China. They care.

    By the way, they all do pretty well. They may not always succeed in the reputation they want, but they obviously give a care about how they are perceived. Reputation doesn't just mean quick cash, it means a sustainable flow of cash.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    bah, don't worry about what this might have said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    What does being a company have to do with not caring about reputation? Microsoft has a reputation, so does Apple, so does Google, so does Facebook, so does every company in existence. These companies care about their reputation and their product. Read the letter from Facebook's IPO. Mark Z. cares about Facebook's reputation. Look at Bill Gates walking around with Seinfeld and failing to look like a normal average Joe. Microsoft might fail, but cares about their reputation. Google trying to emphasize how the privacy changes mean good things and not privacy concerns for all. They care. Apple investigating current claims of worker abuse in China. They care.

    By the way, they all do pretty well. They may not always succeed in the reputation they want, but they obviously give a care about how they are perceived. Reputation doesn't just mean quick cash, it means a sustainable flow of cash.

    Take another look at Apple. They're under a lot of fire right now for their working conditions in China where iDevices are made. They're fully aware that there have been suicidal workers, overworked employees, and hazardous working conditions. But labor over there is cheap...much cheaper than they'll get in the United States and regulations aren't as tight. So of course they're going to stay over there making products dirt cheap and then selling them at twice the cost and not think twice about it.

    I really think Cryptic's reputation as a provider and developer isn't what it used to be. Go read some review on independent sites about this game and they're not exactly glowing. This attitude of adding micro-transaction money grabs along with little to no new content (finally changing after a year!) with a strained relationship with their playerbase...yeah, I'd say their reputation matters quite a lot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    BClark_09 wrote:
    Take another look at Apple. They're under a lot of fire right now for their working conditions in China where iDevices are made. They're fully aware that there have been suicidal workers, overworked employees, and hazardous working conditions. But labor over there is cheap...much cheaper than they'll get in the United States and regulations aren't as tight. So of course they're going to stay over there making products dirt cheap and then selling them at twice the cost and not think twice about it.

    I really think Cryptic's reputation as a provider and developer isn't what it used to be. Go read some review on independent sites about this game and they're not exactly glowing. This attitude of adding micro-transaction money grabs along with little to no new content (finally changing after a year!) with a strained relationship with their playerbase...yeah, I'd say their reputation matters quite a lot.

    ."Apple investigating current claims of worker abuse in China. " I did include that. Apple is acting on it. It will just take some time before anything comes out of it. Of course, they will still work with Chinese companies, because of the cheap labor, because the cost of a US made iPhone would be crazy compared to what it is now, but Apple can still have a say in how workers are treated.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    ."Apple investigating current claims of worker abuse in China. " I did include that. Apple is acting on it. It will just take some time before anything comes out of it. Of course, they will still work with Chinese companies, because of the cheap labor, because the cost of a US made iPhone would be crazy compared to what it is now, but Apple can still have a say in how workers are treated.

    That whole debacle wasn't an issue that appeared overnight. It's been ongoing for years...

    Back to the topic at hand, if they burn their reputation with the existing playerbase and word gets out that the condition of the game is less than desirable, no amount of PR spin or marketing will save them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    ."Apple investigating current claims of worker abuse in China. " I did include that. Apple is acting on it. It will just take some time before anything comes out of it. Of course, they will still work with Chinese companies, because of the cheap labor, because the cost of a US made iPhone would be crazy compared to what it is now, but Apple can still have a say in how workers are treated.

    By the by, I'm an Android user and have a custom built PC. So, this isn't Apple fan boy talking here.

    On the other hand, I'm happy that Apple has come under fire as by this happening, perhaps it will create a demand for products made under better working conditions over all. I'm sure that Android phones aren't made by super happy people working for cheap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    BClark_09 wrote:
    That whole debacle wasn't an issue that appeared overnight. It's been ongoing for years...

    Back to the topic at hand, if they burn their reputation with the existing playerbase and word gets out that the condition of the game is less than desirable, no amount of PR spin or marketing will save them.

    And yes, you are correct. I think that has already happened.

    I think their current plan is to keep rising the cost of C-Store items and ramping up grab bag sells so that no matter the lack of community in the game, they will make money from this game one way or the other. Unfortunate, but likely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    I was out feeding the horses (My girlfriend and I help board two horses) and I was thinking that Cryptic kinda reminds me of trying to date a crazy, picky, and needy girl (and by this, I mean absolutely no offense to any of the crazy, needy, picky girls out there, I'm just using this as a basis of comparison). You buy her stuff, but the chances of her even caring are so slim that you're basically gambling your money away, and then even when you do happen to succeed she changes the rules up so that she can accept your gift and still date the Captain of the football team.



    And your girlfriend was Bioware, right?


    I've dated a crazy, needy, picky girl once. And she was actually crazy, but I didn't know that at first. It kinda became apparent when she started telling people that I had brutally murdered her (but she "lucky recovered later") and she truly believed it. Yeeeeah. I got nothin' else to say on that topic.


    dorko1 wrote: »
    Well, let's be clear, World of Startrek Online is not what I'm shooting for, but I get your message. Cryptic should work harder. It shouldn't be excuses about them being poor, it should be boasts about them rising to the challenge. Guess what they failed to do?



    Make the Ground portion as good as the Space portion?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Jeslyn wrote:
    And your girlfriend was Bioware, right?


    I've dated a crazy, needy, picky girl once. And she was actually crazy, but I didn't know that at first. It kinda became apparent when she started telling people that I had brutally murdered her (but she "lucky recovered later") and she truly believed it. Yeeeeah. I got nothin' else to say on that topic.







    Make the Ground portion as good as the Space portion?

    Yes, that's her name alright. On days I gotta work extra, Bioware goes out there and feeds the horses for me. I might want to tell her one day that I keep calling her Bioware when I talk about her on the 'net though...

    Awww... don't worry about that second one. They've found another way to make the space combat suck as bad as the ground portion, consoles! Why be strategic and good at space combat when you can spend your way into phenomenal consoles?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    As much as i Rag on cryptic we have to keep in mind there are good people in the company like the people who develop the ships and the content. It isn't their fault that their bosses want quick cash grabs over long term profit and investment. We should acknowledge that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Nyxium wrote:
    As much as i Rag on cryptic we have to keep in mind there are good people in the company like the people who develop the ships and the content. It isn't their fault that their bosses want quick cash grabs over long term profit and investment. We should acknowledge that.

    *sigh*. Okay, I like Captain Logan and a few others.

    I'll admit that. I don't mind the content designers necessarily. I mind how that content is clearly utilized.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Talaxia wrote:
    The biggest problem here is that they do not believe they are doing anything harmful to themselves or the IP. As far as they are concerned everything is just peachy and we're all just whiners and rabblerousers. Unfortunately for us and Star Trek, they won't realize this until it's far too late.

    It's a shame CBS doesn't realize how badly this is hurting their IP. They pay guys to run around Second Life to make sure our Star Trek RP groups aren't misusing the Starfleet emblem because it might tarnish the new movies, but they don't care that an entire company they gave the gaming license to is trashing their name in the name of Asian Pay to Win TRIBBLE.

    I wish CBS would yank the license, and show them what happens when you harm their IP. I wouldn't mind waiting another 6 years for another Star Trek MMO by a company that isn't destroying the IP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Yes, that's her name alright. On days I gotta work extra, Bioware goes out there and feeds the horses for me. I might want to tell her one day that I keep calling her Bioware when I talk about her on the 'net though...

    Awww... don't worry about that second one. They've found another way to make the space combat suck as bad as the ground portion, consoles! Why be strategic and good at space combat when you can spend your way into phenomenal consoles?



    Just wait until she informs you that everyone else on the 'net talking about Bioware is also referring to her. :p



    Consoles? Nah. I don't think this All Ships - Any Console thing will be as big of a deal as people seem to think that it will. Most players do not have any C-Store Ships or only one. Only the Big Spenders have a lot of them.

    People complain that PvP will be destroyed by it, but really the PvP Heavy Players generally ARE the Big Spenders. Neither side will be overpowered because those sides will have roughly the same amount of special abilities.

    People say that PvE will be destroyed by it, too. But lets be honest when playing PvE, you are generally by yourself or with a friend. If you don't want multiple consoles just don't equip them. If you are with a friend, ask if they would mind limiting the game to one console for a while. They will probably agree.

    The last area that people say will be destroyed by it is the STFs. But then, people have been complaining about the Borg's one-hit-kill torpedoes and their invisible torpedoes. Having a team with Special Abilities isn't destroying the battle here, it is merely leveling the playing field: you have Specials, the Borg have Specials, everyone is equal.

    So, yeah. I don't think this will be a big deal at all. Heck, I am looking forward to it. I only have two consoles. One is a torpedo for Cruisers. One is holo-projector for Scis. My Main flies an Escort. It will be nice to finally get to play with them. :)
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