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How to resolve Star Trek Online Forum Community issues

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
1. Take a deep breath in through the nose.
2. Hold it for a moment.
3. Exhale slowly through the mouth.
4. Repeat the words, "It is only a game."
5. Repeat Steps 1 through 4 until your rage subsides.
6. ???
7. Profit.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    1. Take a deep breath in through the nose.
    2. Hold it for a moment.
    3. Exhale slowly through the mouth.
    4. Repeat the words, "It is only a game."
    5. Repeat Steps 1 through 4 until your rage subsides.
    6. ???
    7. Profit.

    Only a game? LOL
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    1. Take a deep breath in through the nose.
    2. Hold it for a moment.
    3. Exhale slowly through the mouth.
    4. Repeat the words, "It is only a game."
    5. Repeat Steps 1 through 4 until your rage subsides.
    6. ???
    7. Profit.

    AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH THIS IS NOT A GAME IT IS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i will attempt to use your methods in the future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I think next time I'm by the local park, I'll take all the basketball hoops off their hinges. If anyone gives me flak, I'll say, "it's just a game".

    No one ever uses the "it's just a game" excuse except online. Apparently these online denizens forget there are other games than the one they play. Same with the "I have a life" excuse. I can't remember the last time anyone ever used that excuse in the flesh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Plexing, it works!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    1. Take a deep breath in through the nose.
    2. Hold it for a moment.
    3. Exhale slowly through the mouth.
    4. Repeat the words, "It is only a game."
    5. Repeat Steps 1 through 4 until your rage subsides.
    6. ???
    7. Profit.

    1-waiting to exhale
    2-holding
    3-still holding
    4-Its a game I dumped a good amount of money into to enjoy playing it
    5-Still upset because I feel shafted on my investment
    6-Yes confusion helps the denial process
    7-Im not sure I broke even

    Yes it is a game, one I like very much, one that I have invested much time, money, and effort into. Although it does not run my life, it is a hobby I enjoy. I want to have fun doing it. No rage implied mind you, more like dissapointment.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    I think next time I'm by the local park, I'll take all the basketball hoops off their hinges. If anyone gives me flak, I'll say, "it's just a game".

    No one ever uses the "it's just a game" excuse except online. Apparently these online denizens forget there are other games than the one they play. Same with the "I have a life" excuse. I can't remember the last time anyone ever used that excuse in the flesh.

    Yes this x 100

    Why is this always applied to online games as if they are not really important. Today the England Football manager resigned from his job and the way the BBC covered it you would think it was world shattering news, top item on all news channels, but it's just a game! A game and a way of life for many followed by millions of fans throughout the world. Personally i don't care much about football but I do care about my online gaming and it is just as important to me as football is to others.

    Having said that, there are many that should take the advice in the OP, just remove the bit about it being just a game and you're on the right lines.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    I think next time I'm by the local park, I'll take all the basketball hoops off their hinges. If anyone gives me flak, I'll say, "it's just a game".

    No one ever uses the "it's just a game" excuse except online. Apparently these online denizens forget there are other games than the one they play. Same with the "I have a life" excuse. I can't remember the last time anyone ever used that excuse in the flesh.

    The problem with your analogy is that you don't own the court. If it was your court and you took down the hoops and people complained, that's all they can do. If you charged them rent to play on your court and then took down the hoops, they still couldn't do anything other than stop paying the rent. They can complain like everyone else is here on the forums, but ultimately, there's nothing they can do other than "take their ball and go home".

    Just has been my experience that the vast majority of forum users have this idea in their head that they know exactly what a game needs and exactly how to do it. Which is great. Their idea will make the game exactly how they want it to be and (most of the time) will result in absolutely no gain from a developer standpoint.

    Although I said this is a game, that is only true from one side. It is a game for the user. It is a business for the developer. They need to make money. They will make changes to said game that you don't like. Get over it. You don't own the game, it is not yours. You are simply paying for a license to play their game. You do not deserve anything other than the privilege of playing that game. Sure, you can offer your input and opinions, you can even get upset and rage when the developers don't use your ideas. But let's stop all of the self-important, self-deserving, self-entitled attitudes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Yes this x 100

    Why is this always applied to online games as if they are not really important. Today the England Football manager resigned from his job and the way the BBC covered it you would think it was world shattering news, top item on all news channels, but it's just a game! A game and a way of life for many followed by millions of fans throughout the world. Personally i don't care much about football but I do care about my online gaming and it is just as important to me as football is to others.

    Having said that, there are many that should take the advice in the OP, just remove the bit about it being just a game and you're on the right lines.

    But it is still "just a game". It isn't needed to live or to be successful in one's life. It is simply used as a means to relax and enjoy oneself. The idea behind any computer game, console game, or board game is exactly the same; to be fun and enjoyable for the players. If your life starts depending upon this game in such a way that it will profoundly affect you if you can't get your "fix" then I'm not sure what to tell you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    But it is still "just a game". It isn't needed to live or to be successful in one's life. It is simply used as a means to relax and enjoy oneself. The idea behind any computer game, console game, or board game is exactly the same; to be fun and enjoyable for the players. If your life starts depending upon this game in such a way that it will profoundly affect you if you can't get your "fix" then I'm not sure what to tell you.

    Man does not live by bread alone. Life is its own purpose, and leisure is part of life.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    The problem with your analogy is that you don't own the court. If it was your court and you took down the hoops and people complained, that's all they can do. If you charged them rent to play on your court and then took down the hoops, they still couldn't do anything other than stop paying the rent. They can complain like everyone else is here on the forums, but ultimately, there's nothing they can do other than "take their ball and go home".

    The analogy is arbitrary. I could be a nuisance, whatever.
    Maziken wrote:
    Just has been my experience that the vast majority of forum users have this idea in their head that they know exactly what a game needs and exactly how to do it. Which is great. Their idea will make the game exactly how they want it to be and (most of the time) will result in absolutely no gain from a developer standpoint.

    This is a nihilistic copout.
    "No one can know everything, so no one can know anything, so you can't know anything, so I think what I believe is correct."

    Like all nihilistic copouts, the fallacy is that the variables in question are, in fact, relevant.
    Often, individual players do, in fact, have the answers.
    Maziken wrote:
    Although I said this is a game, that is only true from one side. It is a game for the user. It is a business for the developer. They need to make money. They will make changes to said game that you don't like. Get over it. You don't own the game, it is not yours. You are simply paying for a license to play their game. You do not deserve anything other than the privilege of playing that game. Sure, you can offer your input and opinions, you can even get upset and rage when the developers don't use your ideas. But let's stop all of the self-important, self-deserving, self-entitled attitudes.

    False. The game is relevant only because of the community. Without that community, it's just a lot of code with no more value than the license for any other obsolete program no one cares about.

    A franchise's community is, in the final analysis, the ultimate arbiter of value.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    Man does not live by bread alone. Life is its own purpose, and leisure is part of life.

    True, but to say that STO is the only way you can get leisure and as such will be horrendously harmed if the developers do not do exactly as you say is far too self-entitled for me. I can think of at least ten things off the top of my head that provide me with as much fun and leisure time as STO does.

    I truly fear for the people here who seem like they'll go comatose when STO inevitably closes its doors.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    True, but to say that STO is the only way you can get leisure and as such will be horrendously harmed if the developers do not do exactly as you say is far too self-entitled for me. I can think of at least ten things off the top of my head that provide me with as much fun and leisure time as STO does.

    Your argument is paradoxical.

    You claim the best way the franchise can hold onto its playerbase is by not caring if it goes away?
    Maziken wrote:
    I truly fear for the people here who seem like they'll go comatose when STO inevitably closes its doors.

    You might be speaking of yourself. It's the most rabid fans who go deer-in-headlights at the prospect of any criticism or change in their beloved franchise - the ones who are too deep in the game to admit how much it means to them, so instead they project and overcompensate by attacking others' more honest devotion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    The analogy is arbitrary. I could be a nuisance, whatever.



    This is a nihilistic copout.
    "No one can know everything, so no one can know anything, so you can't know anything, so I think what I believe is correct."

    Like all nihilistic copouts, the fallacy is that the variables in question are, in fact, relevant.
    Often, individual players do, in fact, have the answers.



    False. The game is relevant only because of the community. Without that community, it's just a lot of code with no more value than the license for any other obsolete program no one cares about.

    A franchise's community is, in the final analysis, the ultimate arbiter of value.

    The analogy is not arbitrary because you used it in an attempt to refute my statement. If it is arbitrary, then so is your point.

    My point in regards to the forum users having ideas is that most of them do not realize that said game was not made specifically for them. Sometimes they have good ideas and, as you stated, they do have answers. Those answers can be either correct or incorrect. However, the development team would be foolish to apply every answer that a forum user tosses out when I would imagine that the majority of the forum users have absolutely no experience with game design theory, coding, business economics, etc.

    The game may only be relevant based on its community, true, but that community still does not own said game. They have no basis for any sort of demands being made in any reasonable fashion. If they don't like the game, they can go elsewhere and if the community dwindles enough, the game will shut down. But most demands made by a forum user are far too narrow-minded to be applicable to the entire game community, making them self-serving.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    But it is still "just a game". It isn't needed to live or to be successful in one's life. It is simply used as a means to relax and enjoy oneself. The idea behind any computer game, console game, or board game is exactly the same; to be fun and enjoyable for the players. If your life starts depending upon this game in such a way that it will profoundly affect you if you can't get your "fix" then I'm not sure what to tell you.

    LOL slow down, nobody said their life depended upon it any more than it does football or Baseball. The point is that "It's just a game" is levelled at online games ONLY. For some they are as important as the other sports, but nowhere does anyone NEED any of these games to live, just to enjoy one's life a little more. Personally I'd sooner spend an evening with my new GF than play STO but when she's not available I play STO and I love it, but my life does not depend on it nor am I addicted to it. The phrase "it is just a game" is pointless and arbitrary nonsense and needs to be knocked on the head immediately.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    Your argument is paradoxical.

    You claim the best way the franchise can hold onto its playerbase is by not caring if it goes away?



    You might be speaking of yourself. It's the most rabid fans who go deer-in-headlights at the prospect of any criticism or change in their beloved franchise - the ones who are too deep in the game to admit how much it means to them, so instead they project and overcompensate by attacking others' more honest devotion.

    No, I never made that claim. If the developers don't try to please the community, they will inevitably fail. My point is that the developers need not solely make changes to the game based off of community feedback. My point is also that said community needs to stop throwing tantrums if they don't get their way.

    No, I am quite sure that I am not speaking of myself. While STO is a good game, when it shuts down it will not ruin my life.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    My point in regards to the forum users having ideas is that most of them do not realize that said game was not made specifically for them. Sometimes they have good ideas and, as you stated, they do have answers. Those answers can be either correct or incorrect. However, the development team would be foolish to apply every answer that a forum user tosses out when I would imagine that the majority of the forum users have absolutely no experience with game design theory, coding, business economics, etc.

    The game may only be relevant based on its community, true, but that community still does not own said game. They have no basis for any sort of demands being made in any reasonable fashion. If they don't like the game, they can go elsewhere and if the community dwindles enough, the game will shut down. But most demands made by a forum user are far too narrow-minded to be applicable to the entire game community, making them self-serving.

    Sure they do.

    They are the community.

    They play the game. They make it relevant. They have experience with it, and thus are more likely to have valid input than people who either cannot see the game from the outside (from the pov of a consumer and not a developer) or who have no experience with it at all.

    The community is the final arbiter of value and the most qualified authority on the game itself.

    Individual members of the community can find a new game and community much more easily than the game can find new community members.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:

    My point in regards to the forum users having ideas is that most of them do not realize that said game was not made specifically for them.

    Who was the game made for then if not Star Trek fans? Do you honestly think this game would have survived with just your average MMO player subbing?

    A business exists because there is a demand for it's products, customers want them. If those products become devalued or irrelevant then that business must adapt to the customers requirements or go out of business.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    LOL slow down, nobody said their life depended upon it any more than it does football or Baseball. The point is that "It's just a game" is levelled at online games ONLY. For some they are as important as the other sports, but nowhere does anyone NEED any of these games to live, just to enjoy one's life a little more. Personally I'd sooner spend an evening with my new GF than play STO but when she's not available I play STO and I love it, but my life does not depend on it nor am I addicted to it. The phrase "it is just a game" is pointless and arbitrary nonsense and needs to be knocked on the head immediately.

    I don't agree that the phrase is pointless. The meaning may have been changed over the years, but the idea behind the phrase remains the same. The phrase should be interpreted to convey the optional situation that the subject is in. It can be applied to many other things than games. "It is just a car." For instance, that phrase should be seen as a condensed form of "You don't need a car to get from point A to point B. It may make your life easier and cut down on time, but it is not a requirement to get from one point to another."

    The same thing applies to STO. STO is not needed to provide fun in one's life. It is not the only way to have fun. Hence, it is just a game and something that can easily be replaced by something else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Who was the game made for then if not Star Trek fans? Do you honestly think this game would have survived with just your average MMO player subbing?

    A business exists because there is a demand for it's products, customers want them. If those products become devalued or irrelevant then that business must adapt to the customers requirements or go out of business.

    No, because the average MMO player feels that the game should be tailored specifically for them.

    STO was made for the Star Trek fan, but that is more of a wide blanket. I was speaking more along the lines of players thinking little nuances in the game should be changed just because they, the individual, want it to be changed regardless of how it affects the other players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    Sure they do.

    They are the community.

    They play the game. They make it relevant. They have experience with it, and thus are more likely to have valid input than people who either cannot see the game from the outside (from the pov of a consumer and not a developer) or who have no experience with it at all.

    The community is the final arbiter of value and the most qualified authority on the game itself.

    Individual members of the community can find a new game and community much more easily than the game can find new community members.

    I'm not arguing that fact. What I am saying is that the ideas that are offered up by a community are just that, ideas. The community often has no idea, no clue what it would take to implement those ideas. They have no knowledge of the code behind the scenes. They have no knowledge of the server architecture used or database architecture used. So, inheritantly, their ideas are unfounded and inexperienced in terms of how to specifically apply them to said game.

    It is akin to saying, "We want world peace!" And then complaining when it doesn't happen because it should be "so easy to do".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    No, because the average MMO player feels that the game should be tailored specifically for them.

    STO was made for the Star Trek fan, but that is more of a wide blanket. I was speaking more along the lines of players thinking little nuances in the game should be changed just because they, the individual, want it to be changed regardless of how it affects the other players.

    Then we are in agreement. What Cryptic don't seem to do well though is catch on quickly when there is vehement criticism of a particular aspect of the game, forum rage is rife with all sorts of issues, many of which are ridiculously OTT in my opinion but important to the players that rage. However when the more moderate users join in with the criticism Cryptic still take an age to even acknowledge with a "hang on guys we'll take a look" much less a patch.

    I'm hoping now the F2P transition is over we will see a closer monitoring and feedback system from the DEVs on many issues that currentl seem to be causing concern.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Then we are in agreement. What Cryptic don't seem to do well though is catch on quickly when there is vehement criticism of a particular aspect of the game, forum rage is rife with all sorts of issues, many of which are ridiculously OTT in my opinion but important to the players that rage. However when the more moderate users join in with the criticism Cryptic still take an age to even acknowledge with a "hang on guys we'll take a look" much less a patch.

    I'm hoping now the F2P transition is over we will see a closer monitoring and feedback system from the DEVs on many issues that currentl seem to be causing concern.

    Yeah, they are often slow to respond, but they are much quicker than other developers. I think we also have to realize that probably most often the feedback that forum users give is only really helpful at the start of their code review. For instance, say they are revamping the crafting system and get haflway through it. Then they go to the forums and notice some good ideas. Well, from a business standpoint, it is too late to go back and implement those ideas because it would cost both money and time to re-write what has already been changed.

    I think if Cryptic were to come to the forums at the start of these design changes and ask for input it may go a bit more smoothly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    I think if Cryptic were to come to the forums at the start of these design changes and ask for input it may go a bit more smoothly.

    this x 100, Devs take note of this statement
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    I'm not arguing that fact. What I am saying is that the ideas that are offered up by a community are just that, ideas. The community often has no idea, no clue what it would take to implement those ideas. They have no knowledge of the code behind the scenes. They have no knowledge of the server architecture used or database architecture used. So, inheritantly, their ideas are unfounded and inexperienced in terms of how to specifically apply them to said game.

    It is akin to saying, "We want world peace!" And then complaining when it doesn't happen because it should be "so easy to do".

    I don't hear many people at all asking for world peace. It's certainly not an election-year issue.

    This game, like any other, is not inherently dissimilar from other games, computer programs, business ventures in general. Again, the customer is the final arbiter of value. The customer doesn't care how his car works, only how it drives. Any complaint thereof is therefore inherently valid.
    Maziken wrote:
    STO was made for the Star Trek fan, but that is more of a wide blanket. I was speaking more along the lines of players thinking little nuances in the game should be changed just because they, the individual, want it to be changed regardless of how it affects the other players.

    Actually, that wasn't what your post was about at all. Your original post was arguing a reactionary attitude towards change on the basis of pure nihilism.

    That you are changing the premise to how the game is enjoyed by other players betrays the apparent hypocrisy of your premise: that the issue is not that your putative antagonists take it too seriously, but rather, that you yourself do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    Actually, that wasn't what your post was about at all. Your original post was arguing a reactionary attitude towards change on the basis of pure nihilism.

    That you are changing the premise to how the game is enjoyed by other players betrays the apparent hypocrisy of your premise: that the issue is not that your putative antagonists take it too seriously, but rather, that you yourself do.

    No, my original post was to point out that the forum community as a whole needs to breathe a little. There is far too much rage on the forums here for no reason whatsoever. And there are far too many forum users who feel they are entitled to get whatever they want regardless of how it affects the other users.

    I guess self-entitlement is the big thing there. There are far too many "This game is going to fail because it isn't exactly the way I want it" posts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    No, my original post was to point out that the forum community as a whole needs to breathe a little. There is far too much rage on the forums here for no reason whatsoever. And there are far too many forum users who feel they are entitled to get whatever they want regardless of how it affects the other users.

    I guess self-entitlement is the big thing there. There are far too many "This game is going to fail because it isn't exactly the way I want it" posts.

    So what's it to you?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I guess nothing really. I just decided to make a parody post to try and get people to calm down a little. There are far too many people who take both themselves and this game way too seriously. It is, after all, just a game. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    what if im so congested i cant breath through my nose? what would you suggest in place of it :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    what if im so congested i cant breath through my nose? what would you suggest in place of it :p

    You know ... I hadn't really thought of that. That does bring up an excellent point.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maziken wrote:
    1. Take a deep breath in through the nose.
    2. Hold it for a moment.
    3. Exhale slowly through the mouth.
    4. Repeat the words, "It is only a game."
    5. Repeat Steps 1 through 4 until your rage subsides.
    6. ???
    7. Profit.

    I have to disagree, it is a game, but it is also a service that some of us pay for. There is nothing wrong with expecting decent service and respect for your buck.
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