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How to resolve Star Trek Online developer issues

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
To all those who are unhappy with the grab bag items, to all those who are unhappy with the responses from the developers, and that they constantly ignore community feedback about how to improve the game, except in times where the community is positive with something they have already done, which are far and few in between, I present you with a solution.

This should have been done 2 years ago, if not more: Go here http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.php, select "other - not listed", let them know the title of the franchise in question - in this case it is Star Trek - and tell them how unhappy you are with Cryptic's handling of the licence to the game and how they are driving it down hill.

This is an example of what I said to them



Cryptic Studios, who currently has the rights to Star Trek Online, is driving the franchise downhill. Not only are they going against already established intellectual property canon, but their lack of content, ignorance of community feedback, and monetising the store in the same fashion as other korean mmos is destroying the franchise

There was a lot of potential in Star Trek Online, and as a long time fan of Star Trek, to the point where I own virtually every piece of Star Trek memorabilia that has been released since 1992. It is still a VERY popular franchise, and the fans of Star Trek are desperate for a decent online game, and a new series to watch on television.

If you care about the Star Trek franchise at all, please have someone examine the community for Star Trek Online, take a look at all the negativity and poor developer response to the community and you will see for yourself that Cryptic deserve to have their licence to Star Trek Online revoked.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Not opposing your idea about making a complaint directly to CBS, there are more than a few things I'm unhappy with when it comes to this game. I pose a question though.... If CBS revokes Cryptics license, who runs the game? Cryptic owns the engine the game runs on, Cryptic employs the people who work on the game. Where does the game go if nobody is there to keep the lights on?

    Not to mention PWE only recently acquired Cryptic, let the changes they plan come. Grab bags are the way of Chinese F2P work, all these F2P players require server space. Have you enjoyed the F2P lag? Maybe if several hundreds of these bags sell, they can upgrade the servers to handle more players. Bottom line this game is a business, they will encourage market growth. If the game makes no money, they will shut it down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    CBS already reviews and signs off on anything that goes into the game. So most of what you're bringing tot heir attention they already know and approve of.

    As for the negativity and developer response, you're writing to the company that's sued fans for using terminology in unrelated applications and has in multiple cases told its viewers (and not just Star Trek viewers) if they don't like something just keep watching it anyway because they know better than you. They'll look at Cryptic and see a lot so positive and bubbly that they might as well put them on the news desk.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Wow.

    Just... wow.

    ...you think this will actually help?! I'll admit to the occasional disagreement with the Dev team and the it way of doing things but it's hardly the message I'd want to make. To me, it's woefully shortsighted.

    Roughly four years ago, there wasn't a Star Trek Online game. There was a pipe dream, followed by Perpetual Entertainment... and they flopped. You're, in the above letter, dissing the people that worked to make it at all possible that Star Trek Online even exist today. They're not perfect people, but they're a small hard working team with lots of passion and a lot of working constraints as well (like, for example, going the way of certain Free-to-Play guidelines following their publisher's - Perfect World Entertainment - preferred approaches).

    Bashing the people working on the game itself will yield you very little. That's my opinion. I think the best arguments you might have done on Star Trek Online (now with 4 years of live Dev time on it, and thus roughly equal to today's starting MMOs) is that you find that the game ought to be much more. Part of this is limitation due to the Dev team's size, meaning they cannot deliver to us high-quality content on a frequent-enough timespan. Therefore since we are desirous of seeing Star Trek Online become the great game it ought to be we recommend further investment into the Dev team's resources to help it grow - with the hope that this growth will in-time pay its dividends for the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    It's a free game, nobody is forcing you to either pay or play nor do Cryptic have an exclusive license right on Star Trek games (i'm pretty sure i've seen another one in development although i won't promote it here for obvious reasons).
    I don't see how throwing a temper tantrum hoping to shut down the game would "resolve" any issue the game might have.
    Also the CBS license is a matter of contract and can't be revoked on a whim, at worst it might not be renewed and even then it will be a buisness decision based on how f2p performs not the result of the kind of forum negativity every MMO ever developed has had to suffer.

    Sometimes it's just your time to quit, video games aren't meant to last forever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Zoberraz wrote: »
    You're, in the above letter, dissing the people that worked to make it at all possible that Star Trek Online even exist today. They're not perfect people, but they're a small hard working team with lots of passion and a lot of working constraints as well (like, for example, going the way of certain Free-to-Play guidelines following their publisher's - Perfect World Entertainment - preferred approaches).

    Bashing the people working on the game itself will yield you very little. That's my opinion. I think the best arguments you might have done on Star Trek Online (now with 4 years of live Dev time on it, and thus roughly equal to today's starting MMOs) is that you find that the game ought to be much more. Part of this is limitation due to the Dev team's size, meaning they cannot deliver to us high-quality content on a frequent-enough timespan. Therefore since we are desirous of seeing Star Trek Online become the great game it ought to be we recommend further investment into the Dev team's resources to help it grow - with the hope that this growth will in-time pay its dividends for the game.



    Anyone who knows anything about the sale knows that Atari sold because, ultiamtely, they were making enough to cover costs. They were not actually making money to expand off sto. They did at the start, but the lack of development left the game in a state it ended up being in.

    I can not be bothered to look for the quote, but the current rep for Cryptic said himself that PWE has NO involvement in the direction Cryptic take with the game. This same person can also be quoted as to stating the lightsabers... I mean glowing melee weapons released for the end of year solstice holidays meets his requirements for new game content.

    There is also a quote one could find on the forums by a cryptic rep that said that developers do not feel like putting in 110% to game development because of the toxicity.

    Then how about 3 years, more or less, of content drought. All the broken promises. And how the saving grace of the game was the foundry. Let the community make stuff to keep them occupied.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I find it interesting that you guys are dismissing the OP?

    I have found that "if you do nothing about the issue, or at least try to do somthing about it, nothing is ever gonna change".

    The only reason we have the freedom of speech we have today, is because someone before us got fed up with being told to shut up and did somthing about it...

    Don't dismiss the OP for doing somthing about it... People like him have changed things in the past.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Dymor wrote:
    It's a free game, nobody is forcing you to either pay or play nor do Cryptic have an exclusive license right on Star Trek games (i'm pretty sure i've seen another one in development although i won't promote it here for obvious reasons).
    I don't see how throwing a temper tantrum hoping to shut down the game would "resolve" any issue the game might have.
    Also the CBS license is a matter of contract and can't be revoked on a whim, at worst it might not be renewed and even then it will be a buisness decision based on how f2p performs not the result of the kind of forum negativity every MMO ever developed has had to suffer.

    Sometimes it's just your time to quit, video games aren't meant to last forever.

    I do not play. I got a lifetime sub. I got my money's worth. No skin off my nose. However, the STO servers shutting down would be better then them continuing to run a game that will just kill any community interest in Star Trek.

    And it is hardly a temper tantrum. Even if it were, however, I have been here since the beta. I have every right to be Angry at the developers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    To all those who are unhappy with the grab bag items, to all those who are unhappy with the responses from the developers, and that they constantly ignore community feedback about how to improve the game, except in times where the community is positive with something they have already done, which are far and few in between, I present you with a solution.

    This should have been done 2 years ago, if not more: Go here http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.php, select "other - not listed", let them know the title of the franchise in question - in this case it is Star Trek - and tell them how unhappy you are with Cryptic's handling of the licence to the game and how they are driving it down hill.

    This is an example of what I said to them



    Cryptic Studios, who currently has the rights to Star Trek Online, is driving the franchise downhill. Not only are they going against already established intellectual property canon, but their lack of content, ignorance of community feedback, and monetising the store in the same fashion as other korean mmos is destroying the franchise

    There was a lot of potential in Star Trek Online, and as a long time fan of Star Trek, to the point where I own virtually every piece of Star Trek memorabilia that has been released since 1992. It is still a VERY popular franchise, and the fans of Star Trek are desperate for a decent online game, and a new series to watch on television.

    If you care about the Star Trek franchise at all, please have someone examine the community for Star Trek Online, take a look at all the negativity and poor developer response to the community and you will see for yourself that Cryptic deserve to have their licence to Star Trek Online revoked.


    Um, You do realize CBS APPROVED all this, right? In fact they stated this was the only way CBS would allow the ships in the previous grab bag setup, and the impending one.

    You also know that the studio CBS licensed the Star Trek MMO IP rights to (Perpetual Inc.) had the rights for four years, produced absolutely nothing in that time excepts sone concept art, and a few faked screenshots with photoshop.

    My point: I think CBS is pleased that Cryptic was indeed able to do something with the IP in the short 18 month cycle they were given (by CBS who didn't want a repeat of the Perpetual debacle); and it appears so far the F2P conversion has increased revenue and profits (meaning whatever percentage CBS takes as compenstation just netted them more cashflow as well.)

    bottom line - As long as it's making a profit for PWE, Cryptic and CBS Corporate, I don't think CBS minds what Cryptic is doing as they give approval rights on what Cryptic does - and hell, some of the nerchandise marketed by CBS itself is atrioscious in terms of the franchise IP as well.

    But, hey, it's a free country and you can protest whatever you like.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Lol i think this is a bad idea it's as bad as people who dobb in youtube users or something for uploading Star trek video's..

    Seriously these people like that need a life.. not saying this is the OP's way..

    but it is a game and not a Canon Representation.. i mean cmon Star Trek Enterprise Was not even Canon properly.

    my main concern about the canon state of sto is the Ship lack of Power to real star trek ships.
    like my example below


    if it were in real Star Trek or canon
    the Oddessey would have like

    * 15 forward phaser slots
    * 4 forward torpedo slots
    * 10 rear phaser spots,
    * 2 rear torp spots.
    * Firing range of 50,000 Metres.
    * Shields of about 50,000 Capacity and about
    * 500,000 Hull points
    * crew of 1400
    NO INTERTIA or that of about a IRL space shuttle.
    Built in torp spread and yield adhustment (no tactical skills needed) like all ships should be and fire at subsystem should be built in also
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012

    There is also a quote one could find on the forums by a cryptic rep that said that developers do not feel like putting in 110% to game development because of the toxicity.

    Regardless of the fact that 110% effort is a physical impossibility I'll challenge you to produce this spurious quote...

    And as said by more than one person in this thread CBS pretty much approves everything which goes into game; suggest you search out John VanCitters...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    From the way Al Rivera was talking on the last couple of podcast interviews, it sounds like CBS is pretty happy with the game. This being the case, I imagine they're likely to ignore the occasional angry feedback from potentially overzealous fans.

    Part of likes to believe they get a laugh every time someone writes talking about how Gene would be displeased by all this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I do not play. I got a lifetime sub. I got my money's worth. No skin off my nose. However, the STO servers shutting down would be better then them continuing to run a game that will just kill any community interest in Star Trek.

    And it is hardly a temper tantrum. Even if it were, however, I have been here since the beta. I have every right to be Angry at the developers.

    I've been here since the beta, I'm not happy about everything, but I'm happy about enough of it and enjoy myself. It will never be the game I want (more like SFB/SFC), and it will never be the game everyone wants. If you don't want to play, fine. Just realize that everyone isn't you. I don't want to see the game shut down, and having been here since beta I've seen it get better and better, granted that it is at a very slow pace. The "I don't like it so I want you to take it away from everyone" , thing is a childish and selfish position to take.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Not to mention PWE only recently acquired Cryptic, let the changes they plan come. Grab bags are the way of Chinese F2P work, all these F2P players require server space. Have you enjoyed the F2P lag? Maybe if several hundreds of these bags sell, they can upgrade the servers to handle more players. Bottom line this game is a business, they will encourage market growth. If the game makes no money, they will shut it down.

    ... You either do not know PWE very well... Or... Well I cannot say the alternative on a family friendly forum... So I guess I will just leave that up to your imagination.

    At any rate, I have far far more faith in Cryptic than PWE... The prior has made good games and will continue to if allowed to. The latter on the other hand generally makes horrible cookie-cutter games with less depth than a rain puddle that are more about glowies and fashion than a Barbie MMO where everything is random and costs money for any reasonable results...


    There are a number of problems... Game bugs are one thing. They happen, they get fixed. They ALWAYS happen in every game and in the good games they get fixed. Cryptic is a lot faster at fixing them then some games I have played and a bit slower than others. I would say that makes them a bit on the upper side of things for that in most cases.

    Some bugs persist for looooong periods. This is understandable if those bugs are very hard to reproduce and track down. If they are not then it becomes more questionable.

    Some of the decisions that have been made have been less than stellar. Obviously, they are not going to please everyone with anything they decide to do... I sincerely hope that they are looking into and TRYING to please the majority... I have to wonder some times though...

    Content Drought is a serious issue. This issue cannot just be offhandedly dismissed. They have been working on a LOT of changes lately and while that is good. I am glad they have been changing the Skill System while they have the chance to do so. However, the game has been fairly stagnant for far too long... It is in cryo stasis. Now it is coming back with its first real new Content in a loooooooooong time and I get the feeling most of us are going to be a bit underwhelmed...

    Why do I say that? Do I feel the Cryptic team has lost their touch? No. I say that because: We have been waiting so long and grinding mind numbing STF's to get the best gear for so long that most any other gear will pale in comparison or if it is greater will annoy the grinders to no end. This will be just another thing to do to distract us for a mere moment or two before we go back to grinding the end game STF grind again. Will our insanely powerful toys be required for these new FE's? Highly Unlikely... They will not really be likely to pose us a challenge. They will be a bit interesting and a nice distraction and GREAT for new players but for the old Vets they will be a pleasant distraction for a little time and nothing more.

    So would I say they should not bother with FE's? No, that is not my point. They are great for the newer Players and at least a fun distraction for the rest of us. They are entertaining like watching the shows and so worth the effort BUT... What I AM saying is that they are NOT end-game content nor are the STF's. As many many many people have said: "If I have to kill all these Borg to get this gear so I can kill the Borg is it not sort of a self defeating cycle?" Like it or not PvP and the Foundry Missions are the ultimate End-Game content. So while FE's have their place and should continue even more focus should be on Territory control, Star Bases, PvP improvements, and Foundry Improvements.


    However, on the topic of the thread... I do not think it is really worthwhile to contact CBS. They have signed off on all this and they do not have any idea how to make the game themselves. Cryptic IS capable of doing this job. I have at least that much faith in the Devs but they ARE dealing with the constraints of their new overlords and with budgets/personnel shortages in some cases. So, obviously, they are not going to get everything done all at once. With an unlimited budget and all the staff they could ask for I am sure they could give us everything we wanted in no time... When you figure out how they can achieve that I am sure they would LOVE to know.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ... You either do not know PWE very well... Or... Well I cannot say the alternative on a family friendly forum... So I guess I will just leave that up to your imagination.

    At any rate, I have far far more faith in Cryptic than PWE... The prior has made good games and will continue to if allowed to. The latter on the other hand generally makes horrible cookie-cutter games with less depth than a rain puddle that are more about glowies and fashion than a Barbie MMO where everything is random and costs money for any reasonable results...


    There are a number of problems... Game bugs are one thing. They happen, they get fixed. They ALWAYS happen in every game and in the good games they get fixed. Cryptic is a lot faster at fixing them then some games I have played and a bit slower than others. I would say that makes them a bit on the upper side of things for that in most cases.

    Some bugs persist for looooong periods. This is understandable if those bugs are very hard to reproduce and track down. If they are not then it becomes more questionable.

    Some of the decisions that have been made have been less than stellar. Obviously, they are not going to please everyone with anything they decide to do... I sincerely hope that they are looking into and TRYING to please the majority... I have to wonder some times though...

    Content Drought is a serious issue. This issue cannot just be offhandedly dismissed. They have been working on a LOT of changes lately and while that is good. I am glad they have been changing the Skill System while they have the chance to do so. However, the game has been fairly stagnant for far too long... It is in cryo stasis. Now it is coming back with its first real new Content in a loooooooooong time and I get the feeling most of us are going to be a bit underwhelmed...

    Why do I say that? Do I feel the Cryptic team has lost their touch? No. I say that because: We have been waiting so long and grinding mind numbing STF's to get the best gear for so long that most any other gear will pale in comparison or if it is greater will annoy the grinders to no end. This will be just another thing to do to distract us for a mere moment or two before we go back to grinding the end game STF grind again. Will our insanely powerful toys be required for these new FE's? Highly Unlikely... They will not really be likely to pose us a challenge. They will be a bit interesting and a nice distraction and GREAT for new players but for the old Vets they will be a pleasant distraction for a little time and nothing more.

    So would I say they should not bother with FE's? No, that is not my point. They are great for the newer Players and at least a fun distraction for the rest of us. They are entertaining like watching the shows and so worth the effort BUT... What I AM saying is that they are NOT end-game content nor are the STF's. As many many many people have said: "If I have to kill all these Borg to get this gear so I can kill the Borg is it not sort of a self defeating cycle?" Like it or not PvP and the Foundry Missions are the ultimate End-Game content. So while FE's have their place and should continue even more focus should be on Territory control, Star Bases, PvP improvements, and Foundry Improvements.


    However, on the topic of the thread... I do not think it is really worthwhile to contact CBS. They have signed off on all this and they do not have any idea how to make the game themselves. Cryptic IS capable of doing this job. I have at least that much faith in the Devs but they ARE dealing with the constraints of their new overlords and with budgets/personnel shortages in some cases. So, obviously, they are not going to get everything done all at once. With an unlimited budget and all the staff they could ask for I am sure they could give us everything we wanted in no time... When you figure out how they can achieve that I am sure they would LOVE to know.


    Very nice thread, but with a few glaring oversights. Cryptic has not made any GOOD games. Cryptic have champions online. They planned to use the gurps system for character development (well I think it was that. Was about 3 years ago I read the article) but after having everything designed and planed were denied, so they switched to the champions system. Having got the champions books, they do not really use the champion mechanics in their game. Champions Online is generally considered an average to above-average game by many review sites.

    It has its innovative features, like the sheer level of customisation that is present. Its one of the things I love about it. If I want to play a game for story I will play TOR. It is the BEST mmo around for story, but what do you expect from bioware, let alone 4 years of writing and 2 years of coding, with supposedly 600 developers and a 200 million dollar budget. if I want to play a game for customisation, irrelevant of genre, I will play Champions. If I want Star Trek? well, I will play Starfleet Command.

    It is a fact (quote from sthal) that the devs had a far more advanced customisation system (conjecture is more like SFC) but their focus group (Im fairly certain consisted of 12 year olds with adhd and wow players) did not like it. Thought it too complex (for a star trek game? had they even heard of star trek?) so the devs went with the oversimplified system.

    As an amaeture modeller, animator, and programmer I understand the difficulties in maintaining an mmo, but many, many, many community members have presented simple ways to fix the problems over the last 4 years. From ways to make a decent crafting system that had true flexibility, to ways to revamp the skill system without turning it into wow. They had been presented with community created combat fixes, complete with under-the-hood combat calculation formulas to redesigned (and superior) user interface ideas. Cryptic has ignored them all.

    Cryptic has shown that their way of thinking is much like some other people have claimed CBS thinks: This is how we are doing things. If you do not like it, too bad.

    I can not comment really on cbs themselves, as I live in Australia. We just have to deal with the fact that many great shows get canceled, dispite global popularity, because the majority of the people in the us lose interest in them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    There is also a quote one could find on the forums by a cryptic rep that said that developers do not feel like putting in 110% to game development because of the toxicity.

    If it wasnt such a c**p game there wouldnt be any "toxicity"....

    Besides consumers are paying money for developers to do the job... not to feel bad and mope about it.

    Your messing with a franchise that people adore.... people will generally stand by it regardless... but now even the die-hard fans are slating this game... which means the game is so awful.... people feel the need to vent about it... I think the main difference between this and other games is that STO it was simply a let down.... I personally expected so much.... but received so very little... where as other games i didnt have any expectations etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Not opposing your idea about making a complaint directly to CBS, there are more than a few things I'm unhappy with when it comes to this game. I pose a question though.... If CBS revokes Cryptics license, who runs the game? Cryptic owns the engine the game runs on, Cryptic employs the people who work on the game. Where does the game go if nobody is there to keep the lights on?

    Answer is: the next high bidder.

    If the contract is in arrears, control of the franchise reverts to CBS and whomever they choose to sell it to.
    Not to mention PWE only recently acquired Cryptic, let the changes they plan come. Grab bags are the way of Chinese F2P work, all these F2P players require server space. Have you enjoyed the F2P lag?

    F2P is a terrible game paradigm, always has been, always will be. Chinese/Korean MMOs without exception suck, and there is a very good reason that Western MMOs do well in the East but not vice versa.
    Maybe if several hundreds of these bags sell, they can upgrade the servers to handle more players. Bottom line this game is a business, they will encourage market growth. If the game makes no money, they will shut it down.

    You're claiming that corporate spending works the same way as you at the store with your wallet. It doesn't. Businesses don't make the connection between cash in the hand and toy in the store the way individuals do.

    In business, there is NO CORRELATION between earnings and investment. How much money comes in the door has no bearing on how much money the corp invests.

    If money is made selling the bags, they will pocket it. If they believe investment is profitable, they will invest irrespective of what their profits currently are.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    (double post sorry)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    It is a fact (quote from sthal) that the devs had a far more advanced customisation system (conjecture is more like SFC) but their focus group (Im fairly certain consisted of 12 year olds with adhd and wow players) did not like it. Thought it too complex (for a star trek game? had they even heard of star trek?) so the devs went with the oversimplified system.

    "Land rats do not fight with sea rats".

    Emulating WoW has become a fixation amongst the American corporate executives who do not play or understand games but drive their design. It's immensely stupid, and results in execs wasting billions on projects that are doomed from conception while neglecting the far more lucrative and under-served traditional gamer market.

    The smart thing to do would be leave WoW and CoD where they are, and invest in making MMOs that appeal to a different group of people who find those games wanting.

    In reality, this is a microcosm of a much larger social problem: the neglect and disdain of general society for intelligent young males of character, and the increasing irrelevance of American business and political leadership.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ... You either do not know PWE very well... Or... Well I cannot say the alternative on a family friendly forum... So I guess I will just leave that up to your imagination.

    At any rate, I have far far more faith in Cryptic than PWE... The prior has made good games and will continue to if allowed to. The latter on the other hand generally makes horrible cookie-cutter games with less depth than a rain puddle that are more about glowies and fashion than a Barbie MMO where everything is random and costs money for any reasonable results...


    There are a number of problems... Game bugs are one thing. They happen, they get fixed. They ALWAYS happen in every game and in the good games they get fixed. Cryptic is a lot faster at fixing them then some games I have played and a bit slower than others. I would say that makes them a bit on the upper side of things for that in most cases.

    Some bugs persist for looooong periods. This is understandable if those bugs are very hard to reproduce and track down. If they are not then it becomes more questionable.

    Some of the decisions that have been made have been less than stellar. Obviously, they are not going to please everyone with anything they decide to do... I sincerely hope that they are looking into and TRYING to please the majority... I have to wonder some times though...

    Content Drought is a serious issue. This issue cannot just be offhandedly dismissed. They have been working on a LOT of changes lately and while that is good. I am glad they have been changing the Skill System while they have the chance to do so. However, the game has been fairly stagnant for far too long... It is in cryo stasis. Now it is coming back with its first real new Content in a loooooooooong time and I get the feeling most of us are going to be a bit underwhelmed...

    Why do I say that? Do I feel the Cryptic team has lost their touch? No. I say that because: We have been waiting so long and grinding mind numbing STF's to get the best gear for so long that most any other gear will pale in comparison or if it is greater will annoy the grinders to no end. This will be just another thing to do to distract us for a mere moment or two before we go back to grinding the end game STF grind again. Will our insanely powerful toys be required for these new FE's? Highly Unlikely... They will not really be likely to pose us a challenge. They will be a bit interesting and a nice distraction and GREAT for new players but for the old Vets they will be a pleasant distraction for a little time and nothing more.

    So would I say they should not bother with FE's? No, that is not my point. They are great for the newer Players and at least a fun distraction for the rest of us. They are entertaining like watching the shows and so worth the effort BUT... What I AM saying is that they are NOT end-game content nor are the STF's. As many many many people have said: "If I have to kill all these Borg to get this gear so I can kill the Borg is it not sort of a self defeating cycle?" Like it or not PvP and the Foundry Missions are the ultimate End-Game content. So while FE's have their place and should continue even more focus should be on Territory control, Star Bases, PvP improvements, and Foundry Improvements.


    However, on the topic of the thread... I do not think it is really worthwhile to contact CBS. They have signed off on all this and they do not have any idea how to make the game themselves. Cryptic IS capable of doing this job. I have at least that much faith in the Devs but they ARE dealing with the constraints of their new overlords and with budgets/personnel shortages in some cases. So, obviously, they are not going to get everything done all at once. With an unlimited budget and all the staff they could ask for I am sure they could give us everything we wanted in no time... When you figure out how they can achieve that I am sure they would LOVE to know.


    I never stated a stance on which company I believe in more, and I do not know very well nor did I claim too. If we're talking which company we have more faith in, my monies on Cryptic. I played City of Heroes hard for several years, across two of my accounts I have over 60+ toons and 41 are at level cap.

    I purchased a lifetime here, so I had faith from the start this game would be amazing. My point was give PWE some time to make changes before we judge them heavily. We know how PWE run the games they make from scratch. We do not know entirely the long term effects of PWE and Cryptic's partnership.

    My post didn't glorify PWE, it only stated that's how PWE makes money. It's too bad your sentence reflects poorly on you as a person. Which is sad.... because I agree with a lot of what you said.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I never stated a stance on which company I believe in more, and I do not know very well nor did I claim too. If we're talking which company we have more faith in, my monies on Cryptic. I played City of Heroes hard for several years, across two of my accounts I have over 60+ toons and 41 are at level cap.

    I purchased a lifetime here, so I had faith from the start this game would be amazing. My point was give PWE some time to make changes before we judge them heavily. We know how PWE run the games they make from scratch. We do not know entirely the long term effects of PWE and Cryptic's partnership.

    My post didn't glorify PWE, it only stated that's how PWE makes money. It's too bad your sentence reflects poorly on you as a person. Which is sad.... because I agree with a lot of what you said.

    You're using two fallacies here.

    1. Nihilistic shill
    [We can't know everything, so we can't know anything, so we can't know you're right, so I choose to believe I am right]


    2. Ad hominem
    [You are a bad person etc.]


    I think you're trying to dissemble - to passive-aggressively provoke the OP in the hopes of getting a thread that is threatening to the powers-that-be to spiral down into nonsense and irrelevance, and eventual lock.

    You're also using false praise, aimed at mollifying the OP while refusing to engage his point directly.

    These are standard tactics amongst corporate sock puppets, and it's very recognizable once one becomes aware of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    Answer is: the next high bidder.

    If the contract is in arrears, control of the franchise reverts to CBS and whomever they choose to sell it to.

    CBS isn't a game designer, who knows they'll do with the game.

    F2P is a terrible game paradigm, always has been, always will be. Chinese/Korean MMOs without exception suck, and there is a very good reason that Western MMOs do well in the East but not vice versa.

    LOTRO is just one successful F2P MMO in the U.S.A, I was really hoping for Cryptic to model them.
    You're claiming that corporate spending works the same way as you at the store with your wallet. It doesn't. Businesses don't make the connection between cash in the hand and toy in the store the way individuals do.

    In business, there is NO CORRELATION between earnings and investment. How much money comes in the door has no bearing on how much money the corp invests.

    If money is made selling the bags, they will pocket it. If they believe investment is profitable, they will invest irrespective of what their profits currently are.

    Nope there isn't, they have cost and other interest.... but, a company is more likely to invest in something making them money. Based more on the hopes the game grows, never said what I said is absolute fact.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aestu wrote:
    You're using two fallacies here.

    1. Nihilistic shill
    [We can't know everything, so we can't know anything, so we can't know you're right, so I choose to believe I am right]


    2. Ad hominem
    [You are a bad person etc.]


    I think you're trying to dissemble - to passive-aggressively provoke the OP in the hopes of getting a thread that is threatening to the powers-that-be to spiral down into nonsense and irrelevance, and eventual lock.

    You're also using false praise, aimed at mollifying the OP while refusing to engage his point directly.

    These are standard tactics amongst corporate sock puppets, and it's very recognizable once one becomes aware of it.

    You're looking too hard

    I did think his insult reflected poorly on him.... I do agree with a lot of what he said..... You saying it's false praise is an opinion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    CBS isn't a game designer, who knows they'll do with the game.

    They'll sell the license to someone who is.
    LOTRO is just one successful F2P MMO in the U.S.A

    Nope
    Nope there isn't, they have cost and other interest.... but, a company is more likely to invest in something making them money. Based more on the hopes the game grows, never said what I said is absolute fact.

    Bzzt! Wrong.
    If the product is already making money, there's no need to invest!

    The goal of a business is to increase earnings, i.e., cash flow. If the game is earning money, they've already got the cash flow. Hence the fixation of businesses on:

    1. exploiting existing franchises
    2. creating new massive franchises at a cost of billions each

    And so it is that these new franchises are seldom really bold and original, as were so many titles in the past, but instead are unimaginative rehashes of "proven" ideas. This is also why the life cycle of most MMOs is: paid, F2P, dead: because corporations don't really like to make any investment except the up-front investment on the franchise.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    driving the game downhill?

    i laugh. AHA! see? (bonus points for anyone who catches that reference)

    it's a game, and they've said that if it came to fun vs. canon, they'd go with fun. and also, Star Trek regulary wasn't consistent with it's own canon (see the wildly different sizes of the Defiant in DS9). so yeah, it's impossible to be completely canon.

    i'd rather just move on and enjoy this game, which is more important than any canon considerations, to me at least.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Trek17 wrote:
    it's a game, and they've said that if it came to fun vs. canon, they'd go with fun.

    The two aren't mutually exclusive.

    I read through the game materials before it came out. I saw that every character, ship and even celestial object was pulled from the TNG lexicon, as if by someone who knew nothing of Star Trek and picked figures totally at random. (Naming nebulas after random warbirds and warships? lol).

    This was a major part of why I didnt pick up the game two yeas ago. I can definitely raise my hand and say that this ineptitude cost Cryptic a few hundred dollars of my money.

    Having now played the game in depth, I found it kind of amusing this is true of doffs, too. No one who knows Lovok would describe him as "emotional" or "unscrupulous". Yelgren would never be described as a particularly devout Vorta. Heck, Kilara wasn't even male.

    So far as "fun" goes, I can't see how game balance or "fun" would be adversely affected by taking lore a bit more seriously. From a strict business point of view, it would definitely be profitable, and the investment extremely marginal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    @Aestu

    I've been gaming over 20 years... no game is forever.. I'll try to enjoy STO as long as I can.... I'm a lifer I have nothing to lose

    You have a good morning though.... I'm going to go enjoy breakfast with my wife. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Anyone who knows anything about the sale knows that Atari sold because, ultiamtely, they were making enough to cover costs. They were not actually making money to expand off sto. They did at the start, but the lack of development left the game in a state it ended up being in.

    I can not be bothered to look for the quote, but the current rep for Cryptic said himself that PWE has NO involvement in the direction Cryptic take with the game. This same person can also be quoted as to stating the lightsabers... I mean glowing melee weapons released for the end of year solstice holidays meets his requirements for new game content.

    There is also a quote one could find on the forums by a cryptic rep that said that developers do not feel like putting in 110% to game development because of the toxicity.

    Then how about 3 years, more or less, of content drought. All the broken promises. And how the saving grace of the game was the foundry. Let the community make stuff to keep them occupied.

    wow they dont feel like putting 110% in it hummm well there paid to when i worked i didnt have the choice i did what i was told to the degree that was expected out of me or i didnt have a job it wasnt a choice or how i felt lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'm a lifer I have nothing to lose

    Opportunity cost.

    Anything that you could have had that you did not, is a loss.

    If the game could, in the best of all worlds, be better than it is, and it isn't, then you have lost the difference between that and what your lifetime sub got you instead.
    wow they dont feel like putting 110% in it hummm well there paid to when i worked i didnt have the choice i did what i was told to the degree that was expected out of me or i didnt have a job it wasnt a choice or how i felt lol

    Corporate culture at work.

    The corps fear creativity because
    1. they can't quantify it
    2a. it threatens the status quo
    2b. the status quo IS the big business

    This attitude filters down through every rung of the organization. This is why corps fixate on meaningless metrics like focus groups and content consumption and create endless iterations of flatly bad ideas (like gear resets and random grouping). And it is why bugs don't get fixed and most of the head devs are just the biggest suck-ups and not the people who actually have the vision to drive the project forward.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I have to wonder...if the OP doesn't play anymore, if it's 'not worth the time' or whatever, why still bother? Go do something else. Maybe something productive. It seems like a better idea. This could be said for quite a few folks, really...

    I admit, I'm a free to play type, I arrived here only a few weeks ago, despite having kept tabs on the game for a while. I'm an old Trek fan and have been watching since Next Gen. Personally, I think Cryptic is doing a reasonable job, considering the constraints of having had to deal with Atari, limitations of permission and rather overly entitled complaints from supposed game fans (and there appear to be a LOT of those here). Very few individuals seem to understand the pressure of being in an environment like they have to deal with, but most people seem fine with stating what they would like to see and then waiting to see what happens. Toss your hat into the ring, positively lobby for enhancements you would like to see with your fellow gamers and see what can be done, because if you just rant, complain and sound like a spoiled child, you're not going to get anywhere.

    However, if your time is spent less in game and more going from thread to thread, screeching at anyone who will hear you about how the game is doomed and that this or that will be the downfall of everything, maybe you should, I don't know...quit?

    Either way, give the guys some time. Rome wasn't built in a day. Nor shall the continued improvements on the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Yeah there are lots of issues that could/should be addressed. I for one am going to file a complaint about customer service to the BBB, Cryptic, Perfect World, and CBS. As well as their lack of attention to detail. I know if I produced the kind of work Crypic is putting out I'd be fired by now. I dont mean bugs either... there are tons of simple oversights. Like the STL (stealth) bonus on deflectors giving shield bonus, mislabeled stuff from the DS9 STF vendors, upside down UFP logo on almost all ships, Doffs STILL in the wrong categories... list goes on and on.
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