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DS9 changes

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I visited ds9 today and noticed that the staircases in OPS had changed to ramps. Is this a permanent change??

Also, I may be slightly confused, but isnt there supposed to be a spiral staircase on the promenade?

I do wonder what other changes they will make for ds9 after the featured episode update goes live... any confirmed rumors?
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Yeah there is supposed to be a spiral staircase, but I think the motion of players kind of limits that. Plus I'm pretty sure the lady who hails you from DS9 before you beam down says there has been some renovations.

    I haven't heard any rumors about DS9 changes, I don't think there will be any. The way you see DS9 now is actually a recent update to it. It used to look different this time last year.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The ramps are a bug, I believe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Walshicus wrote:
    The ramps are a bug, I believe.

    I saw this confirmed by a goldname.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    indeed, they shouldn't be there. What you're seeing is the collision geometry drawing (it should be there, but invisible)
    I'll take another look on Monday.

    There aren't any big changes planned for DS9, but I certainly see some places (like the staircase) that are different from the show. I'd love to bring it more in line with the show, but that depends on time, and schedule, and not making more work for other people (designers)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    indeed, they shouldn't be there. What you're seeing is the collision geometry drawing (it should be there, but invisible)
    I'll take another look on Monday.

    There aren't any big changes planned for DS9, but I certainly see some places (like the staircase) that are different from the show. I'd love to bring it more in line with the show, but that depends on time, and schedule, and not making more work for other people (designers)

    If you did spiral staircases in game, it would probably involve having NPC pathing take over for the player, wouldn't it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    huh? asdwo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    huh? asdwo

    Well, I assume their exclusion is partly due to the navigation difficulties they'd impose as well as how weird people look when using them coupled with their inaccessibility for large characters.

    I dunno. It seems to me that there were some conscious "realism" decisions made in STO. For example, why we don't just disappear and reappear already sitting in chairs but the effort was made to have people sit properly.

    As many interviews as you guys give, there are elements of your design philosophies that have never been made fully apparent and those tend to come out in slips. I know people who have interviewed with you and they walk away with a new understanding of why you do what you do, stuff that those of us in the general community wind up building theories and assumptions about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    indeed, they shouldn't be there. What you're seeing is the collision geometry drawing (it should be there, but invisible)
    I'll take another look on Monday.

    There aren't any big changes planned for DS9, but I certainly see some places (like the staircase) that are different from the show. I'd love to bring it more in line with the show, but that depends on time, and schedule, and not making more work for other people (designers)

    Quarks bar has a HUGE ramp in it - I have to say, if I could change one piece of DS9....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    There aren't any big changes planned for DS9, but I certainly see some places (like the staircase) that are different from the show.

    One of the reasons for asking is because I believe I may have seen the conference room from ds9 in the brief trailer that was released for "the 2800". So naturally I told myself that perhaps that particular room along with the habitat ring would be released along with the featured series :)

    I think minor adjustments that would make the station feel a lot more "alive" would add greatly, such as adding more random species npc;s wandering the halls, or making the crew members in ops actually walk around repairing something or scanning. Some background dialogue would be a nice addon.

    ooh,, and I know its a minor adjustment, but it would be nice if the door to siskos office opened/closed (with canon sound effect if possible ).

    I may be a bit of a ds9 fan boy...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I always figured that spiral staircases, if implemented, would have to be interactable objects like the turbolifts - walk up to the stairs, click "Climb stairs," and you appear at the top. Back when Cover Shield could still be used in the social zones, I was pretty concerned about griefing.

    /sad that it doesn't look like we'll be getting DS9's Infirmary or Security Office any time soon...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    tobar26th wrote:
    Quarks bar has a HUGE ramp in it - I have to say, if I could change one piece of DS9....

    I'm with you there.
    OooOoOn wrote: »
    One of the reasons for asking is because I believe I may have seen the conference room from ds9 in the brief trailer that was released for "the 2800". So naturally I told myself that perhaps that particular room along with the habitat ring would be released along with the featured series :)

    The conference room is used during the episode. But I don't think it will be accessible via the standard DS9 Social zone. I certainly haven't seen any more of the Habitat Ring so far.
    OooOoOn wrote: »
    I think minor adjustments that would make the station feel a lot more "alive" would add greatly, such as adding more random species npc;s wandering the halls, or making the crew members in ops actually walk around repairing something or scanning. Some background dialogue would be a nice addon.

    ooh,, and I know its a minor adjustment, but it would be nice if the door to siskos office opened/closed (with canon sound effect if possible ).

    I may be a bit of a ds9 fan boy...

    No worries, some of those would be my doing, some would be design. But the problem is that anything I do, impacts design, and would require them to touch things up on their end. There is very little that I can do entirely unto myself without causing a cascade of more work for other people. I think we all want to see DS9 (and other places in the game) improve, but it will take time.
    Jeff-El wrote:
    I always figured that spiral staircases, if implemented, would have to be interactable objects like the turbolifts - walk up to the stairs, click "Climb stairs," and you appear at the top. Back when Cover Shield could still be used in the social zones, I was pretty concerned about griefing.

    /sad that it doesn't look like we'll be getting DS9's Infirmary or Security Office any time soon...

    Sure, that could be done for the stairs, and would avoid the odd, run/strafe in circles approach to climbing them manually.

    I haven't heard anything about adding the Infirmary or Security office, but I'd love to do them. Just need time scheduled.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ramps and stair cases are ok...but I'd rather see the infirmary and odo's office added to the promenade before stair cases and ramp changes. I mean come on, the doctor is hanging out by the exchange. How cool would odo's office be with some holding cells that contain a few drunken klingons and some angry cardassians!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Just gonna say, Infirmary and Security office are must haves!
    Equally as important as the station commanders office... plus thats where DS9's resident medic should be, and not at the exchange.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    I'm with you there.



    The conference room is used during the episode. But I don't think it will be accessible via the standard DS9 Social zone. I certainly haven't seen any more of the Habitat Ring so far.



    No worries, some of those would be my doing, some would be design. But the problem is that anything I do, impacts design, and would require them to touch things up on their end. There is very little that I can do entirely unto myself without causing a cascade of more work for other people. I think we all want to see DS9 (and other places in the game) improve, but it will take time.



    Sure, that could be done for the stairs, and would avoid the odd, run/strafe in circles approach to climbing them manually.

    I haven't heard anything about adding the Infirmary or Security office, but I'd love to do them. Just need time scheduled.



    If you can't get them on the main map, can we at least have these assets released for foundry use?

    I mean, even just habitat ring themed corridors would be awesome.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I concur, the art team does need to add in the Infirmary and the Security Officer. They alone have great potential for missions.

    With Quarks, the only thing missing is the back room and the Holosuites. And let me tell you that holosuites would be a PERFECT tool for both Storyline Missions and Foundry missions.


    My first Foundry mission (still yet to be published) is actually a Holosuite Program and I have it at Drozana (since DS9 was not open to the Klingons at the time). And the art team could easily make Vics into a seperate social zone where you could have other types of gambling along with some classical music from the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Even if you couldn't get licence to Darrin's music.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Dunno if anyone's mentioned this, but I'd like to see the windows (and the entire upper level) of the promenade resized to be more accurate.


    Reference pictures:
    Canon: http://graptor.net/images/ds9comparison1.jpg
    In-game: http://graptor.net/images/ds9comparison2.jpg
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Cuatela wrote:
    Dunno if anyone's mentioned this, but I'd like to see the windows (and the entire upper level) of the promenade resized to be more accurate.


    Reference pictures:
    Canon: http://graptor.net/images/ds9comparison1.jpg
    In-game: http://graptor.net/images/ds9comparison2.jpg

    Yeah thats probably the worst part about the station, the upper level...its way way overscaled.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    What the station really needs is a transporter room, like on ESD.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    i would like to see some more important changes on DS9 than stairs and rooms with no use to them. How about put a Boff trainer there somewhere and how about put an NPC on Sol Starbase to get the rewards from the Borg STF? That should be done easy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    schipani wrote:
    What the station really needs is a transporter room, like on ESD.

    Unfortunately, there was no such thing in DS9. People either beamed to the Prominade or came through the docks.
    papragu wrote:
    i would like to see some more important changes on DS9 than stairs and rooms with no use to them. How about put a Boff trainer there somewhere and how about put an NPC on Sol Starbase to get the rewards from the Borg STF? That should be done easy.

    That would be a bad idea, because then there would be no reason to travel to DS9. And putting a BOFF trainer would be one less reason to travel to ESD.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    i think DS9 does need a lot of work doing to it to make it like earth space dock. hopefully in the long distant future when the game is getting the work it deserves sector space will be huge. i want to have to say well i need to go to DS9 cos earth is to far away to get to within 20mins or so that would be ideal for it and the same for starbase 39 the others.

    anyway little DS9 things. i dont want a transporter room but what would be nice is rather than transporting on is that you appear outside a dock as if your ship has docked with DS9 and then go to a door and up to the habitat ring. Also a nice way to get to Bajor from there since they are opening it up as a social zone would be to go to a runabout pad and take runabout to Bajor option (i dont mean change ships i just mean you click there and your on Bajor) the rest i am not to bothered about, yeah problems with scale and other little bits but i can overlook them. But yeah medical would be nice there to treat your officers and i would like to see D,vak returned to his ship and an interior created for the U.S.S Victory as another social zone for endgame players rather than having him on DS9 the centre of Borg activity, ohh wait no its not
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'd much rather have a working Infirmary and security office. I don't see why these weren't included in the original construction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Morgomir wrote: »

    Also need a holodeck inside the holodeck to play baseball in against a vulcan team :) Or maybe even a liberated borg team rofl.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    while I'm not fussed about the Infirmary and the Security Office the only real things that I think need looking into is the doors (they are still the huge barnyard doors) and that where the shutters were outside Quark’s is now a black wall where you should see the bar, either put the shutters back up or merge Quark’s with the rest of the Promenade.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Whats always bugged me about Ds9 is how empty it feels. It was commerce center, not a Starfleet base. We shouldn't treat it like a starfleet base.

    Of course Ds9 would empty in dangerous times, but normally you had to dodge people along the promenade. I don't suggest we fill the halls that much, but double the NPC's would help give it more of that 'feel'. Only other complaints are that sickbay and Odo's office are closed. Not cool.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ds9 is the sole reason i stopped paying. since f2p i've started playing again, but certainly not paying until ds9 feels like ds9. to me, it's the most important thing in the game, and cryptic is sabotaging their own game with inaccuracies like ds9. i'm sure there are many others that dont pay or just don't pay because of the broken or missing immersive elements.

    ds9 needs:

    fix the scale, it's completely ridiculous

    open up quarks (the counter/window on the promenade, and the entrances from the upper level...NO MAP LOADING)

    get rid of the ramps in (next to) quarks

    add holosuites, sickbay, security complex

    add spiral staircases (movement problems is no excuse, shooter mode is nearly as agile as any shooter that has spiral staircases)

    get rid of the huge gymnasiums... exchange, mail, and bank can be in the station assay office. shipyard should be in a cargo bay in the docking ring.

    add at least one level of the habitat ring, with at least a hundred or so accessible rooms, (2 types- quarters style, and ward room style) doesn't matter if they're all the same (very important for the foundry). and the scale, colors and lighting of the corridors and rooms is of great importance. and if a loading screen is absolutely necessary to enter the habitat ring, then spawn directly on the other side of the door, not some random place in the ring.

    do all or most of these things, and you have my 15 buck a month for life. leave ds9 as it is and you'll never see another dollar from me. i'm not trying to be rude or anything. i'm just saying, that's the situation.


    some other things that would be nice

    bar stools at the bar

    turbolift ride to an upper pylon with a nice view

    accessible runabouts docked in the pads

    accessible ships moored at the ports of the docking ring

    jefferies tubes

    mini games (racket ball, darts, some reason to pull those big handles in the airlocks)

    a runabout shuttle to bajor, maybe one leaves every hour, and you can ride with other players

    night time hours... lights dim, less activity on the promenade


    end communication
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Keep in mind, fixing some ramps is like 1 hour of work. Adding in the Infirmary or Security office are probably a couple weeks each.


    ETA: Also, while you all have some great ideas for DS9, what you bring up is months and months of work, for many people. Much of it is very unlikely to happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    Keep in mind, fixing some ramps is like 1 hour of work. Adding in the Infirmary or Security office are probably a couple weeks each.


    ETA: Also, while you all have some great ideas for DS9, what you bring up is months and months of work, for many people. Much of it is very unlikely to happen.

    Does it help or hurt that there are missions set on a totally non-canon version of the habitat ring for both DS9 and Empok Nor that include totally alien versions of the Infirmary and Security? I think the presence of those are a big part of what shapes people's impressions about the station.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tumerboy wrote: »
    Keep in mind, fixing some ramps is like 1 hour of work. Adding in the Infirmary or Security office are probably a couple weeks each.


    ETA: Also, while you all have some great ideas for DS9, what you bring up is months and months of work, for many people. Much of it is very unlikely to happen.


    We're not expecting it to happen overnight, or at least I'm not. But you have to admit, STO would be a lot more immersive if the interiors matched what we saw on-screen. Some variation could be understandable, but there's no way the upper level would've increased by 200-300% in size. And these changes don't have to be all at once either. Hell, they could set it as a "background" project that you guys work on when you want a change of pace or something.

    All we're saying is we'd like for things to get better than they currently are. ;)
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