Does anyone have any idea what program the Cryptic team use to model their ship and character files for the game? I feel like it is one of the Autodesk programs, but I'm not sure. Any ideas?
Ah, I was hoping it was one of their programs I knew how to use. Thanks for the fast response.
3ds max is industry standard now. If you want to be doing anything related to the games industry it's a requirement to know how to use it.
Solidworks is another big player but more for cad machine work.
I used to do training for Autodesk on their Autocad products.
There is so much more than 3Ds Max that you want to know if you want to be considered competent at game character and environment modelling though. It's really entry level stuff.
If you ask any game company what they use to model and the answer isn't one or more of the following;
3DS Max
Maya
Blender
Then I'd be truly surprised.
In my experience Blender will not be required. maya is certainly on the list for character development as well as Beast, Mudbox, Softimage, HumanIK, Kynapse and alias.
In fact it's probably an indication of how simple cryptic's engine is that it's all done on a 4 year old version of 3ds max. That's proven by the simplicity of their woeful animation rig which I've had the misfortune to play with.
Ya, every company I know of uses either Max or Maya.
My first 3d experience was with Max 2.5. I took one class that used that. It was a pain . . .
My next modeling class introduced me to Lightwave (5.0 maybe?) and I said goodbye to max for many years. Lightwave was WAY faster and more intuitive. I could do stuff in LW in less than 1/4 of the time and hassle I could in Max.
I missed Maya until I was out of school.
When I went to find a job, no one wanted to hire someone that just knew Lightwave.
I worked at a bookstore for 3 years after school, doing side projects and such in my spare time. I tought myself Maya, and liked that much more than Max (though not as much as LW). Eventually, I got hired here (a Max house) with no Max experience to speak of other than that first class. The Env team on COH trained me up on Max, which was still much slower/more cumbersome to me than Maya, but I got used to it.
Over the past 7 years, my workflow has improved, and now Max is what I know how to use. If I had to go back to Maya (or LW), I would have to relearn much of it I'm sure.
ETA: Nowadays, if you want to do 3d art in games (character, env, whatever) you should know Max or Maya (or both), and Z-Brush or Mudbox (or Both)
In my experience Blender will not be required. maya is certainly on the list for character development as well as Beast, Mudbox, Softimage, HumanIK, Kynapse and alias.
In fact it's probably an indication of how simple cryptic's engine is that it's all done on a 4 year old version of 3ds max. That's proven by the simplicity of their woeful animation rig which I've had the misfortune to play with.
I got to watch a guy do a lizard first hand in mudbox.
He imported this low poly garbage looking lizard model that was years old, and within ten minutes had sculpted it into this multi-million tri incredible life-like animal.
Then he baked all the tiny details into the texture map and the thing came out at just over 2,000 tris but with the most amazingly lifelike animal scales I've seen on a 3D model (that wasn't in a movie).
Needless to say I drool in my sleep over mudbox.
Blender I mention because first its free and second I've been repeatedly told in the right hands it can be used to create models just as well as max.
I hope this is the case, mainly because of that first thing. :rolleyes:
Y'know, the free part.
ETA: Nowadays, if you want to do 3d art in games (character, env, whatever) you should know Max or Maya (or both), and Z-Brush or Mudbox (or Both)
Some of these programs have very high learning curves, often requiring education just to understand the basics. However, if anyone is interested in a hobbyist approach with a less severe learning curve, then starting out with some fps game engines was a fun start, at least for me.
I was a complete noob, and had no training. But, I got pretty good at mapping for Star Trek: Elite Force 1 (Quake 3 engine, if I recall). I dabbled with Poser for a year or so, and then became pretty good with DAZ studio (which is free). I still dabble with a few things that are kind of fun, like Hexagon.
It's taken many years, but I almost feel ready to mess with Max, lightwave, etc. Unfortunately, I've always sucked with photoshop, UV mapping, textures, etc., because somehow the building of sets is easy for me compared to texturing something.
Oh well, bottom line for me is it seems to take many, many years and requires a good working knowledge of lots of complex software, some of which doesn't work that well as friends.
Maybe it would have been easier, in the end, to just dive into Max.
I got to watch a guy do a lizard first hand in mudbox.
He imported this low poly garbage looking lizard model that was years old, and within ten minutes had sculpted it into this multi-million tri incredible life-like animal.
Then he baked all the tiny details into the texture map and the thing came out at just over 2,000 tris but with the most amazingly lifelike animal scales I've seen on a 3D model (that wasn't in a movie).
Needless to say I drool in my sleep over mudbox.
Blender I mention because first its free and second I've been repeatedly told in the right hands it can be used to create models just as well as max.
I hope this is the case, mainly because of that first thing. :rolleyes:
Y'know, the free part.
Some of these programs have very high learning curves, often requiring education just to understand the basics. However, if anyone is interested in a hobbyist approach with a less severe learning curve, then starting out with some fps game engines was a fun start, at least for me.
I was a complete noob, and had no training. But, I got pretty good at mapping for Star Trek: Elite Force 1 (Quake 3 engine, if I recall). I dabbled with Poser for a year or so, and then became pretty good with DAZ studio (which is free). I still dabble with a few things that are kind of fun, like Hexagon.
It's taken many years, but I almost feel ready to mess with Max, lightwave, etc. Unfortunately, I've always sucked with photoshop, UV mapping, textures, etc., because somehow the building of sets is easy for me compared to texturing something.
Oh well, bottom line for me is it seems to take many, many years and requires a good working knowledge of lots of complex software, some of which doesn't work that well as friends.
Maybe it would have been easier, in the end, to just dive into Max.
I cut my teeth in 3D assets by creating some for *get this* Dark Forces (3DO files) and Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight.
I remember doing keyframe animations and discovering that (at the time) positive space engines exists, instead of negative-space ones.
Some of these programs have very high learning curves, often requiring education just to understand the basics. However, if anyone is interested in a hobbyist approach with a less severe learning curve, then starting out with some fps game engines was a fun start, at least for me.
I was a complete noob, and had no training. But, I got pretty good at mapping for Star Trek: Elite Force 1 (Quake 3 engine, if I recall). I dabbled with Poser for a year or so, and then became pretty good with DAZ studio (which is free). I still dabble with a few things that are kind of fun, like Hexagon.
It's taken many years, but I almost feel ready to mess with Max, lightwave, etc. Unfortunately, I've always sucked with photoshop, UV mapping, textures, etc., because somehow the building of sets is easy for me compared to texturing something.
Oh well, bottom line for me is it seems to take many, many years and requires a good working knowledge of lots of complex software, some of which doesn't work that well as friends.
Maybe it would have been easier, in the end, to just dive into Max.
I think like anything if you have the schooling they are easy to learn. Grabbing a copy from the internet without a hard manual and expecting to figure it out is hard, hard work.
Z-Brush is a good tool but i think it requires some previous knowledge and even then it's a limited tool. Lightwave was great but it just got pushed aside.
I'm the opposite to you. I paint, canvas and digital. Photoshop is like a third arm to me and I love it. Nothing seems complicated to me. Texture mapping is easy ( another reason I look at STO and think there have been some shortcuts for low end cards ) and whilst I can build environments in 3ds max, Bryce, Daz Studio as well as animate rigs in poser at the end of the day that bores me. i'd rather paint a scene and give it to someone else to bring to life.
That's why concept art is good and you can sleep all day
Hey, what would you suggest for aspiring content designers to, hypothetically speaking, get a head start on possible Cryptic employment?
excellent kettle skills
But seriously? There are courses out there for game related work and there are much safer houses than cryptic to work for. Although many are floundering. Expect THQ to go **** up this year if they can't find an investor for warhammer.
If you want to get into 3d content then 3ds max is where you start. You'll need a degree.
But seriously? There are courses out there for game related work and there are much safer houses than cryptic to work for. Although many are floundering. Expect THQ to go **** up this year if they can't find an investor for warhammer.
If you want to get into 3d content then 3ds max is where you start. You'll need a degree.
Cryptic's microtransaction model is actually safer than the "one flop until disaster" model a lot of gaming companies fall under. Cryptic can ride a game a lot longer than BioWare can.
And while a degree is helpful, it's not really a necessity. Like any job, a degree gets your resume looked at; it doesn't get you the job. And a lot of companies I have worked for (outside of the gaming industry, of course) will hire a guy with 5+ years of experience and no degree over a guy with a degree who was at the top of their class.
That being said, Cryptic does have a proprietary game building engine. Foundry may be the closest anyone could get.
Edit: Just looked on Amazon. Ouch! Avid isn't that expensive.
Cryptic's microtransaction model is actually safer than the "one flop until disaster" model a lot of gaming companies fall under. Cryptic can ride a game a lot longer than BioWare can.
And while a degree is helpful, it's not really a necessity. Like any job, a degree gets your resume looked at; it doesn't get you the job. And a lot of companies I have worked for (outside of the gaming industry, of course) will hire a guy with 5+ years of experience and no degree over a guy with a degree who was at the top of their class.
That being said, Cryptic does have a proprietary game building engine. Foundry may be the closest anyone could get.
Cryptic will survive as long as PWE decide they can. They lost Atari a ton of money in just two years. After spending $50m on them I doubt that PWE will give them much longer. Cryptic's future relies on Neverwinter now.
Sore you don't need a degree if you have experience and skills. Just knowing the right people will get you in the door and your skill will do the rest.
I became the owner operator of a large construction company building offices and domestic housing without once doing any kind of course in construction. Sometimes it just takes money and the right staff.
But in the gaming industry where the talent pool is large and capable ( because the world and his brother thought it was the future 8 years ago ) then you had better stand out and you won't if you don't get a degree, a placement and a portfolio.
As for the Cryptic / Bioware thing? That's down to the parent company. You have to ask which is bigger. EA or PWE America? ( a different arm from PWI China )
And then you'd need to know who's willing to back their horse in the race longest. My money is on Bioware.
edit:// Avid the media composer? I have that suite on my server too
But in the gaming industry where the talent pool is large and capable ( because the world and his brother thought it was the future 8 years ago ) then you had better stand out and you won't if you don't get a degree, a placement and a portfolio.
Actually, I think that's why a degree doesn't matter. As you said, everybody and their brother thinks they can do it, so they are looking further than the degree. The other issue is because the degree is so new in terms of relative existence, there is no set standard as compared to something like engineering.
When it comes to the health of the company, it depends on the leadership. Atari was a bad fit; PWE is a better fit. Atari is the type of company that spends money on a release and them moves on where as PWE understands that MMOs need long term investment. I have seen more profitable companies fall and less profitable companies endure.
As for Avid, I have Avid Studio on my home PC because it was the most expensive version I could afford. If i had $3,000, I'd spend it on a nice HD camera to go with it.
I taught my self to use Rhino and really loved that program but wanted a animation program. So I bought Softimage XSi and was learning that. I stopped using it and recently got 3DS Max and I'm going to learn to use it. There are somethings I love about 3DS Max but really hate many things about it.
As for Avid, I have Avid Studio on my home PC because it was the most expensive version I could afford. If i had $3,000, I'd spend it on a nice HD camera to go with it.
I bought Avid Sibelius for my nephew who's 11 and plays 2nd cornet in an adult brass band. he's composing already. I looked at it and liked it so bought the suite. I've yet to do much with it. My day job takes all my time in the summer and winter I've just been relaxing with family.
I'm always going to do something but it's only a couple of months away from race season again and the hectic merry-go-round of travelling to circuits starts again. maybe next year
I taught my self to use Rhino and really loved that program but wanted a animation program. So I bought Softimage XSi and was learning that. I stopped using it and recently got 3DS Max and I'm going to learn to use it. There are somethings I love about 3DS Max but really hate many things about it.
Rhino is a great little program. Very intuitive and easy to learn on. Sadly just too out there for anyone to use in house.
Softimage is now part of the Autodesk house so integrates with 3ds max so keep that up.
Both Max and Maya have some sort of discounted student/learning editions.
Otherwise, Blender is free, and is definitely a fine place to start learning the basics. I've seen amazing stuff come out of that little program (but I don't know any studio that uses it for production)
College is most certainly not necessary. Having said that, I went to college for this stuff, and wouldn't trade it. If nothing else, the connections you make in school will lead you to jobs (like I got this one).
In terms of learning 3D, school is great, but you have to work your butt off all the time to get good at it. And your best bet (whether you decide to attend a college for this or not) is to join up with one of the 3d artist collectives around the net (Polycount was my home for years, or Game Artisans, CG Talk, etc.) and post what you work on. Be prepared for it to get torn to shreds (these are forums, like any others) but if you listen to what's being said, and take their advice to heart you will improve your skills greatly.
The man above talks sense. Another thing to consider is that you won't do half as well putting things into 3d if you can't do it in 2d. This was always one of my favorite haunts back in the day http://www.conceptart.org
Edit:// although the US idea of college and ours in the UK is very different. College won't get you through the door these days. College is what you do to gain credit to get into university.
We don't have a college degree over here and the equivalent of what we do have is meaningless. Our degrees are university level and start at Bachelors. Then the usual Masters to PhD if you are so inclined ( I'm so inclined. Hoping to finish a masters this year and get into a research PhD. Paleoclimatology, who'd a thunk it? )
No, they are a for-profit University. Diploma mills are not eligible for Dept of Education funding. They were the highest rated private online university in terms of education provided. I can promise you, they are no diploma mill. Edit: Diploma mills wouldn't have me sitting over a circuit breadboard and taking pictures of every step of the building process for a grade.
We don't have a college degree over here and the equivalent of what we do have is meaningless. Our degrees are university level and start at Bachelors. Then the usual Masters to PhD if you are so inclined ( I'm so inclined. Hoping to finish a masters this year and get into a research PhD. Paleoclimatology, who'd a thunk it? )
College in the US is interchangeable with University. While there is obviously a difference in a technical sense, when we say college degree, we are talking a 4-year degree or better. We call a two-year program Junior college.
No, they are a for-profit University. Diploma mills are not eligible for Dept of Education funding. They were the highest rated private online university in terms of education provided. I can promise you, they are no diploma mill.
Ok, it's not what i read. As an employer, based upon what's out there on google i'd not consider it an education. it appears it's an easy way to buy the right paper. That's how it appears. I'm in the UK, we don't have this problem so i could be wrong.
Ok, it's not what i read. As an employer, based upon what's out there on google i'd not consider it an education. it appears it's an easy way to buy the right paper. That's how it appears. I'm in the UK, we don't have this problem so i could be wrong.
They are accredited with multiple organizations. Online degrees have taken off in popularity because of the flexibility they offer. Many "traditional" universities have started offering similar course offerings. The fact they are a non-traditional school doesn't sit well with many in academia because it undermines their position that only degrees offered at state-funded universities are worth anything.
I'll put it this way, if there was any doubt about their authenticity, the Department of Veteran Affairs would not be paying for it.
Comments
Ah, I was hoping it was one of their programs I knew how to use. Thanks for the fast response.
Love that program.
Totally aggree, been using it since version 1 all those years ago, very happy to have a legitimate 2012 edition! :-)
3ds max is industry standard now. If you want to be doing anything related to the games industry it's a requirement to know how to use it.
Solidworks is another big player but more for cad machine work.
I used to do training for Autodesk on their Autocad products.
There is so much more than 3Ds Max that you want to know if you want to be considered competent at game character and environment modelling though. It's really entry level stuff.
3DS Max
Maya
Blender
Then I'd be truly surprised.
In my experience Blender will not be required. maya is certainly on the list for character development as well as Beast, Mudbox, Softimage, HumanIK, Kynapse and alias.
In fact it's probably an indication of how simple cryptic's engine is that it's all done on a 4 year old version of 3ds max. That's proven by the simplicity of their woeful animation rig which I've had the misfortune to play with.
My first 3d experience was with Max 2.5. I took one class that used that. It was a pain . . .
My next modeling class introduced me to Lightwave (5.0 maybe?) and I said goodbye to max for many years. Lightwave was WAY faster and more intuitive. I could do stuff in LW in less than 1/4 of the time and hassle I could in Max.
I missed Maya until I was out of school.
When I went to find a job, no one wanted to hire someone that just knew Lightwave.
I worked at a bookstore for 3 years after school, doing side projects and such in my spare time. I tought myself Maya, and liked that much more than Max (though not as much as LW). Eventually, I got hired here (a Max house) with no Max experience to speak of other than that first class. The Env team on COH trained me up on Max, which was still much slower/more cumbersome to me than Maya, but I got used to it.
Over the past 7 years, my workflow has improved, and now Max is what I know how to use. If I had to go back to Maya (or LW), I would have to relearn much of it I'm sure.
ETA: Nowadays, if you want to do 3d art in games (character, env, whatever) you should know Max or Maya (or both), and Z-Brush or Mudbox (or Both)
I got to watch a guy do a lizard first hand in mudbox.
He imported this low poly garbage looking lizard model that was years old, and within ten minutes had sculpted it into this multi-million tri incredible life-like animal.
Then he baked all the tiny details into the texture map and the thing came out at just over 2,000 tris but with the most amazingly lifelike animal scales I've seen on a 3D model (that wasn't in a movie).
Needless to say I drool in my sleep over mudbox.
Blender I mention because first its free and second I've been repeatedly told in the right hands it can be used to create models just as well as max.
I hope this is the case, mainly because of that first thing. :rolleyes:
Y'know, the free part.
Some of these programs have very high learning curves, often requiring education just to understand the basics. However, if anyone is interested in a hobbyist approach with a less severe learning curve, then starting out with some fps game engines was a fun start, at least for me.
I was a complete noob, and had no training. But, I got pretty good at mapping for Star Trek: Elite Force 1 (Quake 3 engine, if I recall). I dabbled with Poser for a year or so, and then became pretty good with DAZ studio (which is free). I still dabble with a few things that are kind of fun, like Hexagon.
It's taken many years, but I almost feel ready to mess with Max, lightwave, etc. Unfortunately, I've always sucked with photoshop, UV mapping, textures, etc., because somehow the building of sets is easy for me compared to texturing something.
Oh well, bottom line for me is it seems to take many, many years and requires a good working knowledge of lots of complex software, some of which doesn't work that well as friends.
Maybe it would have been easier, in the end, to just dive into Max.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~ Suricata
I cut my teeth in 3D assets by creating some for *get this* Dark Forces (3DO files) and Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight.
I remember doing keyframe animations and discovering that (at the time) positive space engines exists, instead of negative-space ones.
Hey, what would you suggest for aspiring content designers to, hypothetically speaking, get a head start on possible Cryptic employment?
I think like anything if you have the schooling they are easy to learn. Grabbing a copy from the internet without a hard manual and expecting to figure it out is hard, hard work.
Z-Brush is a good tool but i think it requires some previous knowledge and even then it's a limited tool. Lightwave was great but it just got pushed aside.
I'm the opposite to you. I paint, canvas and digital. Photoshop is like a third arm to me and I love it. Nothing seems complicated to me. Texture mapping is easy ( another reason I look at STO and think there have been some shortcuts for low end cards ) and whilst I can build environments in 3ds max, Bryce, Daz Studio as well as animate rigs in poser at the end of the day that bores me. i'd rather paint a scene and give it to someone else to bring to life.
That's why concept art is good and you can sleep all day
excellent kettle skills
But seriously? There are courses out there for game related work and there are much safer houses than cryptic to work for. Although many are floundering. Expect THQ to go **** up this year if they can't find an investor for warhammer.
If you want to get into 3d content then 3ds max is where you start. You'll need a degree.
Cryptic's microtransaction model is actually safer than the "one flop until disaster" model a lot of gaming companies fall under. Cryptic can ride a game a lot longer than BioWare can.
And while a degree is helpful, it's not really a necessity. Like any job, a degree gets your resume looked at; it doesn't get you the job. And a lot of companies I have worked for (outside of the gaming industry, of course) will hire a guy with 5+ years of experience and no degree over a guy with a degree who was at the top of their class.
That being said, Cryptic does have a proprietary game building engine. Foundry may be the closest anyone could get.
Edit: Just looked on Amazon. Ouch! Avid isn't that expensive.
Cryptic will survive as long as PWE decide they can. They lost Atari a ton of money in just two years. After spending $50m on them I doubt that PWE will give them much longer. Cryptic's future relies on Neverwinter now.
Sore you don't need a degree if you have experience and skills. Just knowing the right people will get you in the door and your skill will do the rest.
I became the owner operator of a large construction company building offices and domestic housing without once doing any kind of course in construction. Sometimes it just takes money and the right staff.
But in the gaming industry where the talent pool is large and capable ( because the world and his brother thought it was the future 8 years ago ) then you had better stand out and you won't if you don't get a degree, a placement and a portfolio.
As for the Cryptic / Bioware thing? That's down to the parent company. You have to ask which is bigger. EA or PWE America? ( a different arm from PWI China )
And then you'd need to know who's willing to back their horse in the race longest. My money is on Bioware.
edit:// Avid the media composer? I have that suite on my server too
Actually, I think that's why a degree doesn't matter. As you said, everybody and their brother thinks they can do it, so they are looking further than the degree. The other issue is because the degree is so new in terms of relative existence, there is no set standard as compared to something like engineering.
When it comes to the health of the company, it depends on the leadership. Atari was a bad fit; PWE is a better fit. Atari is the type of company that spends money on a release and them moves on where as PWE understands that MMOs need long term investment. I have seen more profitable companies fall and less profitable companies endure.
As for Avid, I have Avid Studio on my home PC because it was the most expensive version I could afford. If i had $3,000, I'd spend it on a nice HD camera to go with it.
I bought Avid Sibelius for my nephew who's 11 and plays 2nd cornet in an adult brass band. he's composing already. I looked at it and liked it so bought the suite. I've yet to do much with it. My day job takes all my time in the summer and winter I've just been relaxing with family.
I'm always going to do something but it's only a couple of months away from race season again and the hectic merry-go-round of travelling to circuits starts again. maybe next year
Rhino is a great little program. Very intuitive and easy to learn on. Sadly just too out there for anyone to use in house.
Softimage is now part of the Autodesk house so integrates with 3ds max so keep that up.
Otherwise, Blender is free, and is definitely a fine place to start learning the basics. I've seen amazing stuff come out of that little program (but I don't know any studio that uses it for production)
College is most certainly not necessary. Having said that, I went to college for this stuff, and wouldn't trade it. If nothing else, the connections you make in school will lead you to jobs (like I got this one).
In terms of learning 3D, school is great, but you have to work your butt off all the time to get good at it. And your best bet (whether you decide to attend a college for this or not) is to join up with one of the 3d artist collectives around the net (Polycount was my home for years, or Game Artisans, CG Talk, etc.) and post what you work on. Be prepared for it to get torn to shreds (these are forums, like any others) but if you listen to what's being said, and take their advice to heart you will improve your skills greatly.
Edit:// although the US idea of college and ours in the UK is very different. College won't get you through the door these days. College is what you do to gain credit to get into university.
We don't have a college degree over here and the equivalent of what we do have is meaningless. Our degrees are university level and start at Bachelors. Then the usual Masters to PhD if you are so inclined ( I'm so inclined. Hoping to finish a masters this year and get into a research PhD. Paleoclimatology, who'd a thunk it? )
I'll have to see if they'll recognize my DeVry University Technical Management coursework I'm currently taking...
DeVry? isn't that a for-profit diploma mill?
No, they are a for-profit University. Diploma mills are not eligible for Dept of Education funding. They were the highest rated private online university in terms of education provided. I can promise you, they are no diploma mill. Edit: Diploma mills wouldn't have me sitting over a circuit breadboard and taking pictures of every step of the building process for a grade.
College in the US is interchangeable with University. While there is obviously a difference in a technical sense, when we say college degree, we are talking a 4-year degree or better. We call a two-year program Junior college.
Ok, it's not what i read. As an employer, based upon what's out there on google i'd not consider it an education. it appears it's an easy way to buy the right paper. That's how it appears. I'm in the UK, we don't have this problem so i could be wrong.
They are accredited with multiple organizations. Online degrees have taken off in popularity because of the flexibility they offer. Many "traditional" universities have started offering similar course offerings. The fact they are a non-traditional school doesn't sit well with many in academia because it undermines their position that only degrees offered at state-funded universities are worth anything.
I'll put it this way, if there was any doubt about their authenticity, the Department of Veteran Affairs would not be paying for it.
But i don't want to divert this thread.