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Active petition to revert back to canon Star Trek

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Cryptic,

You are not doing Star Trek lore, Star Trek canon, the Star Trek community, and most importantly - CBS's licensing of Star Trek justice with a single change this latest patch. Besides, you broke the game.

You changed the shield consoles from and engineering slot to a science slot. Let me go into the various ways that it broke the game:

You now have a science console enhancing an Engineer's ability and responsibility. So if I have the change correctly, you have emergency power to shields being enhanced by a science slot? When did you ever hear Captain Kirk, or Admiral Kirk ask Spock to give more power to the shields? He always asked Scotty, with a prompt reply, " I'm giving her all she's got Cap'n." Spock was spending time sending out probes and figuring Out enemy shield frequencies and other ways to solve problems than trivial ENGINEERING problems. Scotty didn't have science terminals in engineering, he had engineering terminals that controlled the actions of the ship.

How does a science console otherwise tied up generating Tyken's Rifts, gravity wells, and tractor beams and the like tie into shielding as well? It simply does not make any sense whatsoever.

From reports in the forums, your own patch notes are incorrect on the working of the consoles. If people who have these consoles equipped want to keep them as an Engineering console, then they promptly get the console(s) removed for them at the completion of a mission. Then, they're FORCED to put them in a science console slot.

Therefore, deducted by the above reasoning and soon to be HUGE public outcry against this change, I am starting a petition. Please sign below, without breaking forum rules of course, if you agree with the above logic or would like to add your own. If you do not wish to sign, then please do not reply.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I guess you dont know but. EPTS was always modified by a science console.

    Shield emitter array

    Infact it modifies all shield powers.

    The console that upsets people is a shield Capacity console. +35% that is.
    No change in value was intended. If the shield hp console is not granting the same value as before, it's a bug that will be fixed. I promise. Please don't jump to conclusions and spread rumors.

    It was changed from a shield hp buff to a shield skill buff simply to make it easier for everyone to compare the value and see its effect in your passives list. If the resulting value is not the same, there must have been an error in the conversion math.

    Also last I heard petitions were not allowed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    bigduckie wrote:
    I guess you dont know but. EPTS was always modified by a science console.

    Shield emitter array

    Infact it modifies all shield powers.

    The console that upsets people is a shield Capacity console. +35% that is.



    Also last I heard petitions were not allowed.

    EPTS is activated by an Engineering Bridge Officer. When the consoles were in engineering console, it worked properly. Now everything is broken.

    Otherwise, you might as well ask Lt. Uhura to divert power to shields...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Personally, I'm mystified as to the reasons for the change. I've seen various explanations and what have you, but still, I thought it was functioning just fine the way it had been.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    The math error is a bug that they're fixing. It will probably be in tomorrow's patch. As for why it was changed from engineering to science, it seems they are listening to the community when they say that science console slots need to be more useful. Allowing the shield to go to science opens up another engineering slot for something else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Pardigm wrote:

    You changed the shield consoles from and engineering slot to a science slot. Let me go into the various ways that it broke the game:

    You now have a science console enhancing an Engineer's ability and responsibility. So if I have the change correctly, you have emergency power to shields being enhanced by a science slot?

    Emergency Power to Shields http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Emergency_Power_to_Shields

    How does a science console otherwise tied up generating Tyken's Rifts, gravity wells, and tractor beams and the like tie into shielding as well? It simply does not make any sense whatsoever.


    EPTS Modified by:
    Skills
    Starship Shield Emitters *science*
    Starship Electro-Plasma System *engineering*


    The console you are talking about is a field Generator which modifies the stat "starship shield systems*

    One which has been under science for quite some time.

    Also please explain how EPTS is broken? It still behaves the same way on my end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Pardigm wrote:
    Therefore, deducted by the above reasoning and soon to be HUGE public outcry against this change, I am starting a petition. Please sign below, without breaking forum rules of course, if you agree with the above logic or would like to add your own. If you do not wish to sign, then please do not reply.

    And give hull heals back to science!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    STF65 wrote:
    The math error is a bug that they're fixing. It will probably be in tomorrow's patch. As for why it was changed from engineering to science, it seems they are listening to the community when they say that science console slots need to be more useful. Allowing the shield to go to science opens up another engineering slot for something else.

    That's fine, I could see a console to boost Aceton Field (and that ability) to be moved to a science officer and science console. Basic abilities of the ship simply do not belong in a science console or in a science officer's ability.

    If you're going to attack guys, you don't ask your engineering teams to target the enemy and fire, why should a captain ask a science officer or an engineer to change stations to work through a science console to increase power to shields? Science officer and those consoles associated with those abilities are correct in buffing the sensors, or Area of Effect abilities.

    Simply put:
    You have Tactical Officers and consoles for weapon fire and inflicting direct damage
    You have Engineer Officers and consoles to change power levels of systems and repair the ships hull and shields
    You have Science Officers and consoles to scan space and manipulate space or otherwise interact with the deflector to channel energy through space-time and emit different energy beams (tractor, viral matrix, gravimetric particles, or photon particles)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    There are a lot of arguments that can be made about the console change.

    Canon, however, is not one of them. Pretty much the entire space equipment system is a significant departure from canon for gameplay purposes. This change doesn't make it any more or less so.




    And honestly... I like my shield console where it was, but consider the existing console balance.

    Why does just about everybody but science vessels (and even plenty of them) dump their universal consoles in science slots?
    Why was the Bortas's console layout considered superior to the Odyssey's?
    Why were people upset that the Galaxy-R got its extra console slot in science?
    Why was the advanced escort considered generally inferior to the fleet escort before MVAM came out?
    Why are there multiple feedback threads about science consoles sucking?

    The answer to all these questions is, "Because science consoles suck."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I think what bothers ME the most about this unneeded and arbitrary change is that they came to us (in another thread) asking for feedback...and then promptly ignored said feedback.


    It was a fiat accompli and they knew it. Annoying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I think what bothers ME the most about this unneeded and arbitrary change is that they came to us (in another thread) asking for feedback...and then promptly ignored said feedback.


    It was a fiat accompli and they knew it. Annoying.

    Isn't every change pretty much a fiat accompli? Some are good, others - like this one, are VERY BAD.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Cryptic departed from cannon when they made the klingon's ships have shielding just as good as federation ships. What's going on here is just cryptic nerfing engineers because people complained about their tanking ability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Pardigm wrote:
    Otherwise, you might as well ask Lt. Uhura to divert power to shields...

    Says you! I'm asking my Gorn diplomatic uncommon DOFF Francis to activate that hotness. In about 45 minutes he'll come back and tell me in Parseltongue that he failed!

    ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RedBenton wrote:
    Cryptic departed from cannon when they made the klingon's ships have shielding just as good as federation ships. What's going on here is just cryptic nerfing engineers because people complained about their tanking ability.
    Math bug aside, this change actually makes engineering/cruiser captains better tanks because they now have more engineering console slots to buff other aspects and can use the worthless science console slots for shield buffs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RedBenton wrote:
    Cryptic departed from cannon when they made the klingon's ships have shielding just as good as federation ships. What's going on here is just cryptic nerfing engineers because people complained about their tanking ability.

    I completely agree. However, isn't the ability of engineers specifically oriented to tanking? Isn't the specific orientation of tactical officers to deal damage? Isn't the specific orientation of science officers the ability to heal their group or themselves and otherwise hinder the enemy? At least it says so in upon character creation and in every piece of information disseminated by Cryptic that I can find.

    So it looks like now they're stuck in a catch 22 with how they're trying to address the "problem." Simply engineers will whine that they can't do as much damage as tactical captains. Tactical captains will whine that they can't tank as much as engineers can. I believe that was the point and the mechanics are acting exactly as they were designed to act. There's a reason why Rock-Paper-Scissors was so popular when you were younger. It's still popular in game concepts today - because it works!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Reverting back to canon Star Trek would mean that we'd all be wearing the same uniform, which would be a hideously bad thing. So I vote to deny the application of the petition.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If Canon is what this thread is about, how often did we see a chief engineer activate the Tritanium Alloy console? The reality is the interpretation of “consoles” in this game is ridiculous.

    The strange thing here is engineering consoles are all either armor upgrades or power modifiers. But now they are moving power modifications to Science consoles?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Everyone should also keep in mind that Shields are often science skills in the skill tree. It only makes sense that shield system upgrades would also go into science consoles.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    superchum wrote: »
    Says you! I'm asking my Gorn diplomatic uncommon DOFF Francis to activate that hotness. In about 45 minutes he'll come back and tell me in Parseltongue that he failed!

    ;)

    This made me laugh out loud! My three year old son asked me if I was ok, even! As far as the OP, Canon and STO don't really belong in the same sentence anyway, so if they want to shift my shield enhancing console into my Sci slots, I'm all for it. Gives me more room on my defiant refit for armor. If you think about it, science has always had a little engineering in it anyway...HE is a hull heal, and Sci team enhances shields... Just sayin'
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I thought this was a thread about story.

    The tech manuals are not canon. There is very little firm canon for how treknology works because even msds on screen are non-canon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    STF65 wrote:
    Everyone should also keep in mind that Shields are often science skills in the skill tree. It only makes since that system upgrades would also go into science consoles.

    Great idea! Let's just move everything that's currently an engineering console to a science console! That way, we make it "make sense" AND get those darned science slots filled with something useful!

    Then we can have this same discussion making the engineering console slots useful again...

    What makes sense is to have tactical officers use tactical consoles, engineer officers use engineering consoles, and science officers use science consoles. Quite frankly, if you go by this standard, then they just need to do away with engineering bridge officers, engineering abilities and make everything a science ability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Using canon to complain about game mechanics is kind of a fail.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Pardigm wrote:
    Great idea! Let's just move everything that's currently an engineering console to a science console! That way, we make it "make sense" AND get those darned science slots filled with something useful!

    Then we can have this same discussion making the engineering console slots useful again...

    What makes sense is to have tactical officers use tactical consoles, engineer officers use engineering consoles, and science officers use science consoles. Quite frankly, if you go by this standard, then they just need to do away with engineering bridge officers, engineering abilities and make everything a science ability.
    I think you're confused about what a console is. It has nothign to do with the skill of your boffs. It's system ugrades. When Kirk says emergency power to shields he's talking to the boff who clicks his EPtS ability. That really has nothing to do with the console on the ship where he pushes the button.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    As much as I dislike the Console change-up, the idea of STO being strictly cannon will bite stale gagh for those of us whom are not fans of the federation.


    RedBenton wrote:
    Cryptic departed from cannon when they made the klingon's ships have shielding just as good as federation ships. What's going on here is just cryptic nerfing engineers because people complained about their tanking ability.

    Incorrect, as now you ahve two bonus Consoles doing the same thing they did as before but taking up those pesky sceince slots, thus freeing the empty Engineering slots up for more tanking goodness without a loss of tanking ability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Pardigm wrote:
    Please sign below, without breaking forum rules of course, if you agree with the above logic or would like to add your own. If you do not wish to sign, then please do not reply.

    in future please dont say this in threads. everyone should have a say or the thread becomes unbalanced with only people who agree, commenting in it. thats no good to the devs if the people who disagree are discouraged from replying.

    to the issue i am personally quite happy with the change as it suits me. canon mechanics are not that big of an issue. technically everything technological has a connection to engineering. if the deflector breaks or or the phasers go offline its still scotty, geordi, o'brien fixing them. this just breaks them down into sub categories and should not in my opinion be too restricted by what area they should be in. in this game shields have a strong connection with science so im ok with the change.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Personally, I would have prefered to see the addition of new sci consoles with the same effect that are "category unique" or the conversion of the consoles into universal consoles with a technobabble explanation that would have included a rename. But we are where we are.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I agree with the principle of OPs argument. The example of Kirk telling Scott to boost up the shields was exemplified many times by Picard's interactions with Geordi as well. Shield strength is an Engineer's job.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If we're going on this logic then

    Tactical = weapons
    Engineering = Shields/Hull
    Science = Everything else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I agree with the principle of OPs argument. The example of Kirk telling Scott to boost up the shields was exemplified many times by Picard's interactions with Geordi as well. Shield strength is an Engineer's job.
    Which is why the engineering boffs get the emergency power to shields ability. That has nothing to do with the ship, itself, or how it internally routes systems. As was said above, when the weapons go down or needed a buff Scotty did it. Does that mean weapons should be engineering instead of tactical too? Of course not.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Why is Shield Performance a Engineer skill then? just saying for the sake of debate.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    [In a blur he unholsters the [Petition Control Dual Pistols of Epicosity Mk XIV], and shoots numerous bolts devastating the thread!] :cool:

    Petition threads are not allowed and thus, this thread had to be put down. :o

    Cheers,

    Alecto
This discussion has been closed.