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Elite STFs - lowered difficulty ?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
From today's relase notes: Lowered the difficulty of all Elite STFs.
Why? They already were to easy for something called "Elite". If you were in a good team, it was no problem to do all space STFs including the optional objective in about 1 hour. So I see no reason to lower the difficulty of these STFs. If you want it easy, there are the normal STFs...

Regards
Gagravarr
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I also think this is ridiculous to be nerfing something that isn't really that hard if you learned to play the game. My rant posted here.

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3985883#post3985883
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Gagravarr wrote:
    From today's relase notes: Lowered the difficulty of all Elite STFs.
    Why? They already were to easy for something called "Elite". If you were in a good team, it was no problem to do all space STFs including the optional objective in about 1 hour. So I see no reason to lower the difficulty of these STFs. If you want it easy, there are the normal STFs...

    Regards
    Gagravarr

    QFT. I'd rather make them a bit harder and remove the ridiculous one-shots with high yield plasma torps.

    But Cryptic just listens to the average Kirk Jr. with his feeble starcruiser again.

    Or are we guys so
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    this is likely in response to the grinding required from STF's it can take hundreds of STF's to get what you want. personally i would have left elite STF's as they were but massively increase their drop rate
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Geom wrote: »
    this is likely in response to the grinding required from STF's it can take hundreds of STF's to get what you want. personally i would have left elite STF's as they were but massively increase their drop rate

    Often they jam up the plumbing with overshooting the problem......If it aint broke dont fix it......

    This solution would have done nicely...considering...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    They appeal to the lowest common denominator, because it's about keeping people playing, anyone, even people who think they deserve everything on a silver platter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    You gotta be kidding me......make it easier??


    Really dissapointing.

    I have my cruisers built now to take a beating and survive tac cubes on elite and you make the game easier.......so much for learning to play the game.


    I feel it is pandering to the helpless and hapless masses who cry it is too hard.

    To those masses.....learn to play the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Can't agree more. The increase of drop rate is appropriate. I've done over 300 STFs, most of which were elite ground, and still don't have the set. Hopefully I'll have it soon... however, if everyone can do Elites, then, well, they aren't elite, are they? Why lower the difficulty? I can make it through all the ground elite missions without dying (ok on infected sometimes I die once, maybe twice). A lot of the time on Cure is spent waiting for the gate to go down because the team has already killed all the drones... not elite enough! And you go and turn down the difficulty.

    I really don't consider myself that good. I just know the strategies, which is what this game is about, not I have good gear now let's go kill things and grab the loot.

    I hope I'm not being overly abrasive...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    getting rid of the 1-shots is one thing. making them a bit harder than normal is stupid. when most of us said we want them less difficult, we were in fact talking about getting 1 shotted. typical cryptic. when theres a problem, make it worse.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    garravesh wrote: »
    You gotta be kidding me......make it easier??


    Really dissapointing.

    I have my cruisers built now to take a beating and survive tac cubes on elite and you make the game easier.......so much for learning to play the game.


    I feel it is pandering to the helpless and hapless masses who cry it is too hard.

    To those masses.....learn to play the game.

    Well you must be REALLY good if you can survive the 400k odd damage i get from borg. Please mr elite player tell me how to survive that in a ship with only 40K hull
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    i dont know wtf is wrong with most of you guys but making it easier is the only good step. most times when i go into an stf, i play with total newbies who just do this the first time. making it easier is the only way to get that pug actually through the mission.. i dont know a lot of people like you guys maybe do and the people in my fleet are from all around the world and i am awake at different times so i see different people every time. making it harded,... seriously? maybe you can have that but not on my clock. make it harded and i stop playing this game.

    i know that elite is maybe not designed for a random team but then give it one more player or so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    tebinu wrote: »
    i dont know wtf is wrong with most of you guys but making it easier is the only good step. most times when i go into an stf, i play with total newbies who just do this the first time. making it easier is the only way to get that pug actually through the mission.. i dont know a lot of people like you guys maybe do and the people in my fleet are from all around the world and i am awake at different times so i see different people every time. making it harded,... seriously? maybe you can have that but not on my clock. make it harded and i stop playing this game.

    i know that elite is maybe not designed for a random team but then give it one more player or so.

    1. If your a total newbie, you should try the non-elite STF's first, it's not that the elites are much harder but ti gives you a good guide as to how the STF's play out and are more forgiving.
    2. A PUG can get through an elite (As they were). They did it all the time.
    3. No ones suggesting that it be made harder than it was, just that it can't be made so easy you could bang your head into a keyboard and win.

    As others have said the big problem is the drop rate. At elite level you'd at least hope they were better on some level. No matter how easy they get having to run them hundreds of times in the hopes that a single item might drop and that you might win the roll for it is the hardest part of all. The only times I have problems with elites are taking down the gates on Khitomer Accord and dying as soon as I come into range of them. I'd at least like to see something hit me before I die.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    1. If your a total newbie, you should try the non-elite STF's first, it's not that the elites are much harder but ti gives you a good guide as to how the STF's play out and are more forgiving.
    2. A PUG can get through an elite (As they were). They did it all the time.
    3. No ones suggesting that it be made harder than it was, just that it can't be made so easy you could bang your head into a keyboard and win.

    As others have said the big problem is the drop rate. At elite level you'd at least hope they were better on some level. No matter how easy they get having to run them hundreds of times in the hopes that a single item might drop and that you might win the roll for it is the hardest part of all. The only times I have problems with elites are taking down the gates on Khitomer Accord and dying as soon as I come into range of them. I'd at least like to see something hit me before I die.



    to 1. you dont have to tell me but the others who are joining me most of the times which connects to 2. where i have to say, unfortunately, only 1 out of 5 stfs actually has good people in it with the power to complete an stf (maybe i just have bad luck)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Have they mentioned HOW they have made them easier?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Have they mentioned HOW they have made them easier? They certainly don't feel like it...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Have they mentioned HOW they have made them easier? They certainly don't feel like it...

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3988017#post3988017
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    *just smiles and shakes his head after reading all that.*

    hey thanks for the laugh team. and hey, good luck on your future STF's.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    *hands everyone a cookie*

    You are more than welcome to discuss your displeasure at the changes to the Elite STF's, however comments such as "Learn to play the game" are just flame/trolling and won't be allowed. (And those with said comments should probably remove them very fast...)

    So I'm willing to let this thread continue if people give constructive criticism as to other ways they could do things (such as deal with those one shotty borgs >.>) or valid complaints about the change but leave the rude comments at the door :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Lowered the difficulty of all GROUND Elite STFs.

    There *cry*ptic , you got yourself a solution for balance/fix/round of appluads.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This happens in every game I've played. Everyone wants to do the hard stuff but they don't have the coordination or ability to do it. The fact is like hardmodes in other mmos, elite stfs aren't for mass consumption.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Askray wrote: »
    *hands everyone a cookie*

    You are more than welcome to discuss your displeasure at the changes to the Elite STF's, however comments such as "Learn to play the game" are just flame/trolling and won't be allowed. (And those with said comments should probably remove them very fast...)

    So I'm willing to let this thread continue if people give constructive criticism as to other ways they could do things (such as deal with those one shotty borgs >.>) or valid complaints about the change but leave the rude comments at the door :)

    We have a valid complaint about them not learning to play the game though, or listen to us when we tell them the strategies, or read even. Not everyone, but a majority of players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    not in Cure was same but Khitomer and infected were lowered
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Well you must be REALLY good if you can survive the 400k odd damage i get from borg. Please mr elite player tell me how to survive that in a ship with only 40K hull


    First thing i do is make sure i max out on the basic hull plating and aggro buff (which gives a small resistance boost). The I use hull plating that resists plasma and kinteics.....my hull resistances are at around 36-50 unbuffed


    The after that I use the BoFF skills which boost the skills even more.......The max i ever take from a tac cueb is around 45k when i am fully prepared........I also do not sit in one place...I move in and out constantly....the faster i go the harder i am to hit........


    My ship has around 50k hull......

    Polarize hull that....
    That nifty item you can equip in a battery slot that allows you to have a large damage resist but has weakeness to protons.....
    brace for impact
    Auxillary to hull
    I do not waste my engineer slots on anything other then the eps item and hull plating


    No reason to be a rude pretentious ****** either........

    I survive because i am prepared and know my abilities and when to use them.

    I also play the game like i have one life to live and flee out of range to regroup and cool dowm and take breathe and get back into it.

    I see cruisers fold under fire from non lethal borg fire because they sit in once place....probably have engineer slots full of things that do not help them in this STF...more power to weapons or shield 35% boosts......the borg chew through shields like nothing.....having no shields does not hamper me and therefore i do not worry about getting them back as a primary concern.....thats what a good sci offficer will do for me.


    EDIT Also those shots do show up on their profile.....When they have fire at will beams and torpedo salvo 3 etc.....the shot has a cool down...learn to gauge it and that will help you too. Turn your ships shields to the borg as well when you loose a facing shield so they can soften up a torpedo or beam attack etc.



    Most often i see cruisers stopped...sitting in place and firing...then a few seconds later they pop........

    Also learn to play a cruiser with maximum aggro ( the buff works wonders) stay at 15k range and let the cube follow you while the dps and sci beat on the cube.....if they are able to get aggro....get back in and draw it off or wait for the dps to pop......as they pop the aggro meter will reset for them....but not for you...BTW this is not a proven fact but my experiences........i do not know the numbers for aggro or the mechanics but i guarantee this works...and there is no more needless dying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    malianx wrote: »
    We have a valid complaint about them not learning to play the game though, or listen to us when we tell them the strategies, or read even. Not everyone, but a majority of players.
    Telling people how to run an STF (instructing them etc) is fine. Telling people flat out "Learn to play" is not fair. They will play as they want too. There is no 100% perfect strategy to STF's, everyone has their own way. You get there by doing :)

    Now if you don't want to play with newbies then there is a simple answer, don't. You can use the in game chat rooms available, fleets, even some communities host STF runs on a nightly/weekly basis :)

    There are many ways to not be involved with PUG's.

    As for the lowered difficulty do I agree to it? Honestly.. no I don't. I think that raising the reward drop rate, taking out the one shot borg would of been enough and left the Elite runs to the people that know how to do them.

    However THAT is my personal opinion but I don't pug elite STF's.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Askray wrote: »
    Telling people how to run an STF (instructing them etc) is fine. Telling people flat out "Learn to play" is not fair. They will play as they want too. There is no 100% perfect strategy to STF's, everyone has their own way. You get there by doing :)

    Now if you don't want to play with newbies then there is a simple answer, don't. You can use the in game chat rooms available, fleets, even some communities host STF runs on a nightly/weekly basis :)

    There are many ways to not be involved with PUG's.

    As for the lowered difficulty do I agree to it? Honestly.. no I don't. I think that raising the reward drop rate, taking out the one shot borg would of been enough and left the Elite runs to the people that know how to do them.

    However THAT is my personal opinion but I don't pug elite STF's.

    Bingo!!!.......it seems some have taken the elite moniker literally.....i dont like doing elites with these type of individual's, they suck all the joy and fun out of the game......thank god for the ignore button.

    I personally quite enoy helping new players in elite and normal, and i'm certainly glad players are free to see what's going on in both normal and elite.......best way to learn is to do.:)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I personally quite enoy helping new players in elite and normal, and i'm certainly glad players are free to see what's going on in both normal and elite.......best way to learn is to do.:)

    I used to, but after 20+ Elite Cure Space failures because of people not listening to any pleas to use a working tactic... why bother. You can only teach/guide people who are willing to listen and learn. A PUG is not that.

    Also I still see people in Elite ground missions who have never done the normal version.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Well it is a worldwide game after all, your going to get what seems like a unending run of people who don't know what they are doing......but we were all like that at one time.........i think some people forget that.

    But its easy enough to gather people into a team before entering a elite STF......if it's annoying people so much they should do that before hand, that way they wont have to worry about bumping into new players.

    Me personally i enjoy the game regardless if the mission is a fail, or success........sometimes you do nothing but laugh your socks off when your all laying their dead shouting out for help while a new player runs the other way. LOL
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Rather nice actually.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    garravesh wrote: »
    First thing i do is make sure i max out on the basic hull plating and aggro buff (which gives a small resistance boost). The I use hull plating that resists plasma and kinteics.....my hull resistances are at around 36-50 unbuffed


    The after that I use the BoFF skills which boost the skills even more.......The max i ever take from a tac cueb is around 45k when i am fully prepared........I also do not sit in one place...I move in and out constantly....the faster i go the harder i am to hit........


    My ship has around 50k hull......

    Polarize hull that....
    That nifty item you can equip in a battery slot that allows you to have a large damage resist but has weakeness to protons.....
    brace for impact
    Auxillary to hull
    I do not waste my engineer slots on anything other then the eps item and hull plating


    No reason to be a rude pretentious ****** either........

    I survive because i am prepared and know my abilities and when to use them.

    I also play the game like i have one life to live and flee out of range to regroup and cool dowm and take breathe and get back into it.

    I see cruisers fold under fire from non lethal borg fire because they sit in once place....probably have engineer slots full of things that do not help them in this STF...more power to weapons or shield 35% boosts......the borg chew through shields like nothing.....having no shields does not hamper me and therefore i do not worry about getting them back as a primary concern.....thats what a good sci offficer will do for me.


    EDIT Also those shots do show up on their profile.....When they have fire at will beams and torpedo salvo 3 etc.....the shot has a cool down...learn to gauge it and that will help you too. Turn your ships shields to the borg as well when you loose a facing shield so they can soften up a torpedo or beam attack etc.



    Most often i see cruisers stopped...sitting in place and firing...then a few seconds later they pop........

    Also learn to play a cruiser with maximum aggro ( the buff works wonders) stay at 15k range and let the cube follow you while the dps and sci beat on the cube.....if they are able to get aggro....get back in and draw it off or wait for the dps to pop......as they pop the aggro meter will reset for them....but not for you...BTW this is not a proven fact but my experiences........i do not know the numbers for aggro or the mechanics but i guarantee this works...and there is no more needless dying.


    Maybe if you where not such an elitst snob in your first post I would not of been so "pretentious" in mine :rolleyes:.

    None of this will stop the tac cube in elite missions one shoting you. NOTHING WILL :mad:. Its even done it to me form 23KM away. None of this will stop the borg plasma trop form doing 3-400k to you either.

    Useing threat control is a TOTAL waste of skill points as you only get 4% resistance from 9 lvs in it and then everything in map attacks you as soon as you attack anything and your dead pretty much instanly no matter what.

    Please decide if shields are usefull or not. First you say thier useless, then you say thier not. Make up your mind.

    I'm allways moveing unless theres nothing around to attack me and i'm takeing out a transfromer
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    They never were that hard BUT the drop rate sucked and you had say 5 or 6 toons the numbers to get the gears on all them was realy low. I have seen mild imprrovement with last pach with drop rate. There still needs to be some kind of swap system for other gear. One of are fleet has got the Mr XII sheild drop three times on one toon this sucks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    None of this will stop the tac cube in elite missions one shoting you. NOTHING WILL . Its even done it to me form 23KM away. None of this will stop the borg plasma trop form doing 3-400k to you either.
    Your statement is not entirely accurate. It is entirely possible to prevent a tactical cube from kill anyone on your team if you have a good KDF carrier skipper with a full loadout of power siphon drones. It is possible to do Infected Space Elite without a single death, and I've seen it done by top-notch teams. One one of those runs we had a tad over five minutes left on the optional timer.

    My perspective: Normal difficulty STFs are intended for a PUG that uses team chat at least a little bit to be able to beat. Everyone should be able to enjoy these, and Cryptic should take appropriate steps so that a player of average skill can manage them. Elite missions by contrast are content that is not intended for your average player, they are aimed at pre-made teams that practice and run together on a routine basis, who plan tactics and responsibilities in advance and have highly optimized loadouts.
    Can't agree more. The increase of drop rate is appropriate. I've done over 300 STFs, most of which were elite ground, and still don't have the set. Hopefully I'll have it soon... however, if everyone can do Elites, then, well, they aren't elite, are they? Why lower the difficulty? I can make it through all the ground elite missions without dying (ok on infected sometimes I die once, maybe twice). A lot of the time on Cure is spent waiting for the gate to go down because the team has already killed all the drones... not elite enough! And you go and turn down the difficulty.
    I've seen you occasionally die in the other ones too upon occasion. :p (not as often as I do though) That said, I agree with you that the missions could safely be restored to their earlier level of difficulty, even bumped up by one level probably.

    PS: Check out the link in my signature if anyone is unsure of the strategies that turn elite STFs into a cakewalk, I've spent a bit of time writing them up. ;)
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