We all know that both of these ships are going to have +1 versions. We know from pictures that the Odyssey is set up for saucer sep and has an auxillary craft both of which are not going to be available on the free one released tomorrow. I have read every post on almost every thread regarding feedback on both of these ships. I got to thinking and came up with an interesting idea for the +1 versions.
Odyssesy +1:
Add 1 special ability console slot. 3 possible variants
1) Saucer Seperatin: works just like the current versions
-- benefits: allows you to fly a escort esque ship while retaining all BO abilities.
2) Auxillary Craft: Escort
-- The Auxillary craft is an pure escort type vessel. Stats somewhere between Tier 3 and Tier 4 based in its size. Personalyy I would go with 3 forward and 3 aft weapon slots. I am welcome to suggestions for the rest as I don't fly escorts a lot.
--Special powers.. would fly the escort. Odyssey to act as suuport craft. Granted special commands (along the lines of the commands for carreir craft) These would be as follows: Extend Shields 2; TSS 1, ET 2 and HE 1; this allows you to have some buffs for your escort, these obvioulsy would be from the Odyssey to the escort
3) Auxillary Craft: Science
-- The Auxillary craft would be a reserach vessle equiped with sensor analysis, boosts to auxillary power and the like. Again you would fly the science vessel. Sensor analysis would be linked to the drone Odyssey to increase iits damage as well. Final stats negotialbe.
All three of these of course would be on timers to prevent exclusive use of these modes.
Bortas +1
The ideas for this came from the fact that the ship is huge.
1) Attack Squad
-- The Bortas is such a massive ship that her undersides have been modified to carry a support wing of BOPs. Able to lauch 2 waves of one BOPs with a one minute cool down between.. I would soup these up and make them 10-15% stronger than current versions of the Tier 5 carriers.
2) Photon Turrets:
-- A brilliant Klingon engineer found a way to mount two 360 photon torpedo launchers on the top and bottom of the Bortas. She's has enough cargo space to carry the load of extra photon torpedos needed. One turret would fire HY 1 and the other Torpedo spread 1. Cool down 15 seconds. Global cool down 5 seconds.
3) Auxillary Craft: Escort
-- Same as the Odyssey one excpet Klingon of course.
There you have it. A basic idea. Everything is modifialbe. What this does, in my opinion, is give some versatility to these ships and allow fairly good access for all three classes. Of course, this versatility will cost.
We do? Can you source that please? I know they plan on offering the ship in the future in the C Store, but I have read nothing from a dev that has said it would be a "+1". In fact, if their pattern holds any additional function to the C-Store ship would be offset by a nerf. I'd hardly call that +1.
Since most ships released now are +1's it'd be odd if they weren't.
We do? Can you source that please? I know they plan on offering the ship in the future in the C Store, but I have read nothing from a dev that has said it would be a "+1". In fact, if their pattern holds any additional function to the C-Store ship would be offset by a nerf. I'd hardly call that +1.
How many times does this need to be sourced, Bob?
It was stated in the PodcastUGC interview with Geko. Dan Stahl was even talking about it when he was EP, when he said that they were considering treating it like the Prometheus with multiple versions obtainable through other means than the in-game fleet action acquisition method he proposed.
EDIT: +1 is a term used by the devs for any C-Store ship. That doesn't mean it will have more consoles although it almost certainly will be balanced in a more desirable way given existing +1 ships on the C-Store.
It was stated in the PodcastUGC interview with Geko. Dan Stahl was even talking about it when he was EP, when he said that they were considering treating it like the Prometheus with multiple versions obtainable through other means than the in-game fleet action acquisition method he proposed.
EDIT: +1 is a term used by the devs for any C-Store ship. That doesn't mean it will have more consoles although it almost certainly will be balanced in a more desirable way given existing +1 ships on the C-Store.
I know they said they are offering it in the C Store. But my look through every ship offered either in-game or in the C Store does not give me the feeling there is a +1 system in place. Almost every ship that has a special skill is either nerfed in some regard or is matched by another ship that also has a special skill. When I read "+1" it brings back the idea of a ".5" or Tier 6 ship.
All I'm asking is we use a different term. Because if I, a long-term and active member of the community, can be confused by it, then we should use something else. Say "variant" or something. But I think we need to lose the "+1".
As Leviathan said, it was mentioned in that podcast. That's pretty good source material.
It took me a second pass but I realized the debate is over whether a ship with the same number of consoles and BO powers is +1.
To be clear, I expect T5 C-Store ships will be no more imbalanced than the MVAM Prometheus, the Excelsior, or the Jem'Hadar bugship. On paper, that makes them roughly balanced with other T5 ships, unlike, say, the T1-4 +1 ships. That doesn't make them NOT a +1 ship if they're more of a pleasure to use... and of course they will be or people wouldn't buy them.
I don't know anybody is saying that they have a problem with that; most people who do wouldn't be here at this point. But the free Odyssey is just the least popular cruiser with the numbers shuffled around. 1 less turnrate and 3k more hull and a Universal Station with only one good use. So if the C-Store version isn't more pleasant to play than that, good luck selling them. :-)
It took me a second pass but I realized the debate is over whether a ship with the same number of consoles and BO powers is +1.
To be clear, I expect T5 C-Store ships will be no more imbalanced than the MVAM Prometheus, the Excelsior, or the Jem'Hadar bugship. On paper, that makes them roughly balanced with other T5 ships, unlike, say, the T1-4 +1 ships. That doesn't make them NOT a +1 ship if they're more of a pleasure to use... and of course they will be or people wouldn't buy them.
I don't know anybody is saying that they have a problem with that; most people who do wouldn't be here at this point. But the free Odyssey is just the least popular cruiser with the numbers shuffled around. 1 less turnrate and 3k more hull and a Universal Station with only one good use. So if the C-Store version isn't more pleasant to play than that, good luck selling them. :-)
And I fully expect that Auxiliary ship to be a C Store Exclusive. But I also expect a minor nerf in order to offset that skill. Like I said, my issue is the use of "+1". On a quick read, it sounds like they are giving us a T5 ships but are holding the T6 ships for the C Store when I have seen nothing to indicate they are doing that.
And I fully expect that Auxiliary ship to be a C Store Exclusive. But I also expect a minor nerf in order to offset that skill. Like I said, my issue is the use of "+1". On a quick read, it sounds like they are giving us a T5 ships but are holding the T6 ships for the C Store when I have seen nothing to indicate they are doing that.
That may be but C-Store consoles are not balanced with in-game consoles so that nerf could in turn be offset by the ship console included.
That may be but C-Store consoles are not balanced with in-game consoles so that nerf could in turn be offset by the ship console included.
Granted. But as you pointed out, other than the fact this ship has the ability to take a beating, it doesn't even stack up very well against T5 RA ships must less the T5 VA ships. Perhaps the CStore variant will bring it up to par. I don't know.
My public affairs training kicked in when I saw +1 and I got concerned people would take it the wrong way.
Granted. But as you pointed out, other than the fact this ship has the ability to take a beating, it doesn't even stack up very well against T5 RA ships must less the T5 VA ships. Perhaps the CStore variant will bring it up to par. I don't know.
My public affairs training kicked in when I saw +1 and I got concerned people would take it the wrong way.
The free version doesn't. But that apparently is by design. Gecko took in our feedback, realized that the free ship was too competitive based on that feedback and altered it to a state that people will gladly ignore.
The +1 version will be given enough shinies and what not that it will generate some interest. It'd be such a waste of PR and a contest and advertisting and development time to not make it worth buying.
I full expect the +1 version to be competitive with the Excelsior.
I am gald we debated what +1 is or isn't. How about some comments/suggestions on the actual topic:)
I realize there needs to be some balancing these ideas were a simple stating point.
Just to throw my 2 cents in...giving a ship significnat special abilities even if you leave the BO and console layouts the same would be +1... especially given the suggestions I put forth.
The free version doesn't. But that apparently is by design. Gecko took in our feedback, realized that the free ship was too competitive based on that feedback and altered it to a state that people will gladly ignore.
The +1 version will be given enough shinies and what not that it will generate some interest. It'd be such a waste of PR and a contest and advertisting and development time to not make it worth buying.
I full expect the +1 version to be competitive with the Excelsior.
My thing is the "+1" part. If they called it a "Refit" because of the added features, I'd be satisfied. But even right now STOWiki has it listed as a VA50-level ship. When you say +1, it makes me think ADM60-level. And it may be the devs using that term. I just personally think they should reconsider and use another term. Call it a Refit or a Variant. Just don't call another version of a VA ship a +1.
I am gald we debated what +1 is or isn't. How about some comments/suggestions on the actual topic:)
Sorry. I liked your ideas. If I understand you are talking "choose one" right? Add those and a slight hull nerf, and I like it.
Edit: I take that back. I would rather the player have to pick one to mount rather than give them all three even if they are on a shared cool down. Still, drop the hull from 42,000 to 40,000. If you are a Tac captain with a Tac in the universal slot and choose the auxiliary escort, that's a bit too much firepower for the hull strength.
Granted. But as you pointed out, other than the fact this ship has the ability to take a beating, it doesn't even stack up very well against T5 RA ships must less the T5 VA ships. Perhaps the CStore variant will bring it up to par. I don't know.
My public affairs training kicked in when I saw +1 and I got concerned people would take it the wrong way.
Understood.
My training as a dramatist and an actor kicked in when I used the term "+1." In my world, even when you understate things, you try to overstate them in how you understate them.
When you say +1, it makes me think ADM60-level. And it may be the devs using that term. I just personally think they should reconsider and use another term. Call it a Refit or a Variant. Just don't call another version of a VA ship a +1.
The devs have long been stubborn about ignoring suggestions like that.
Still, I'm not sure I would waste energy worrying about level 60? They've shelved plans to extend level cap. And they've never really given a straight answer on if a level cap raise would bring about T6 ships (which they won't even call Tier 6 except when it suits them).
So all of that discussion hinges on stuff they have twisted up in their own commentary to the point where it makes no sense.
The Free Odyssey is a level 50 ship, though after the changes Gecko has made, it's just a smidge better than the Star Cruiser on the strength of one single universal boff slot and one extra power with a very debatable level of usefulness (the slipstream upgrade).
The paid for Odyssey will be better than the free one. By a dev defined factor of 1. Which right now supposedly includes saucer sep AND that little escort-y ship that supposedly comes with it as well.
Heh.
Regarding the original post and suggestions, it's just hard for me to really devote a lot of time and energy to a ship that the devs decided to turn into a science cruiser. It's like, I dunno, I already have a Nebula. That's a Cruiser based science ship. It'll just feel the same to me.
I am gald we debated what +1 is or isn't. How about some comments/suggestions on the actual topic:)
I realize there needs to be some balancing these ideas were a simple stating point.
Just to throw my 2 cents in...giving a ship significnat special abilities even if you leave the BO and console layouts the same would be +1... especially given the suggestions I put forth.
I like the idea of the escort.
I'd support the escort either with the full ship as a pet or with the ability to summon and dock with the full ship as a kind of "armored mode."
And I fully expect that Auxiliary ship to be a C Store Exclusive. But I also expect a minor nerf in order to offset that skill. Like I said, my issue is the use of "+1". On a quick read, it sounds like they are giving us a T5 ships but are holding the T6 ships for the C Store when I have seen nothing to indicate they are doing that.
3) Auxillary Craft: Science
-- The Auxillary craft would be a reserach vessle equiped with sensor analysis, boosts to auxillary power and the like. Again you would fly the science vessel. Sensor analysis would be linked to the drone Odyssey to increase iits damage as well. Final stats negotialbe.
.
Since the heal drone is established tech in the Vulcan and Gorn ships, this would be the easiest to make.
Bortas +1
The ideas for this came from the fact that the ship is huge.
1) Attack Squad
-- The Bortas is such a massive ship that her undersides have been modified to carry a support wing of BOPs. Able to lauch 2 waves of 2 two BOPs.. I would soup these up and make them stronger than current versions of the Tier 5 carriers.
This would be a way OP Battle Carrier. They would have to ditch a fore and aft weapon slot to compensate
And the BoP would need to standard ones unless they could to slotted onto the Vo'quv.
But of course there already is a Battle Carrier in the Kar'fi.
2) Photon Turrets:
-- A brilliant Klingon engineer found a way to mount two 360 photon torpedo launchers on the top and bottom of the Bortas. She's has enough cargo space to carry the load of extra photon torpedos needed. Each turrent would fire a volley of photon torpedos equivalent to Torpedo spread 2. Cool down 30 seconds.
I like this but it seems slightly OP. Now if were a Photon with 360, that you could use your Boff abilities thru with a 15sec CD, then I would like it more.
I'd support the escort either with the full ship as a pet or with the ability to summon and dock with the full ship as a kind of "armored mode."
My thoughts were for both the ecort and science variety of auxillary ship the full ship would be a pet with several hull/shiled heals you could activate to apply to the auxillary craft. now your drone/pet odyssey should not have all the stats of your full ship or that would be to OP but perhaps 20% less base hull and all power levels set to 50.... rest to be determined.
As far as the Bortas goes, the BOP idea is way too powerful. It would completely unbalance the ship, and thats if you use regular BOPs. the only way that may work would be that they are only there for a short time, say 30 secs or so, with a 5 minute cooldown.
Two torp launchers are also way too uber, at least with that 30 sec cooldown you want. Maybe with a 2 min cooldown. I don't even want to imagine a torp spread fired from 2 launchers at 1 ship( happens often enough). Maybe make it so it will only fire a max of 3 torps per launcher, with a max of 1 torp per target every minute or so. If only 1 target in view= only 1 torp launched( per launcher)
Aux craft... I'm okay with it, as long as it is a t3-4 with t3-4 skills/buffs.
Since the heal drone is established tech in the Vulcan and Gorn ships, this would be the easiest to make.
This would be a way OP Battle Carrier. They would have to ditch a fore and aft weapon slot to compensate
And the BoP would need to standard ones unless they could to slotted onto the Vo'quv.
But of course there already is a Battle Carrier in the Kar'fi.
I like this but it seems slightly OP. Now if were a Photon with 360, that you could use your Boff abilities thru with a 15sec CD, then I would like it more.
Excellant suggestions. What about keeping the weapon slots the same but dropping it to 2 BOPs 1 each per wave with say a minute cool down between.
I see your point on the photon turrets being OP. I could see simplying allowing them to be useable by Boff powers... however Torpedo spread 3 laucbhed from both seems even worse. Howbout one has HYT1 and the other has Torpedo spread 1, 15 second cool down and 5 second global cool down.
As far as the Bortas goes, the BOP idea is way too powerful. It would completely unbalance the ship, and thats if you use regular BOPs. the only way that may work would be that they are only there for a short time, say 30 secs or so, with a 5 minute cooldown.
Two torp launchers are also way too uber, at least with that 30 sec cooldown you want. Maybe with a 2 min cooldown. I don't even want to imagine a torp spread fired from 2 launchers at 1 ship( happens often enough). Maybe make it so it will only fire a max of 3 torps per launcher, with a max of 1 torp per target every minute or so. If only 1 target in view= only 1 torp launched( per launcher)
Aux craft... I'm okay with it, as long as it is a t3-4 with t3-4 skills/buffs.
Odyseey... those ideas seem okay to me.
Agreed on the OP of the BOP and photon turrets I made some suggested changes just below your post.
Since we already have carriers on the KDF, I would rather not see another one join our ranks.
Why not instead have the +1 BortaS have the following bonuses,
4 Free Turret mounting points that can accept any type of turret without counting towards the ships total 4/4 weapons set-up. The photon Torp idea sounds cool but I never see it getting past the dejectors whom will call shooting a torpedo in a 360 arc as OP.
Two Science slots, as oppossed to the one we currently have.
Bonus +5 to Hull plating and / or Hull Armor skills due to the BortaS size and ability to carry the extra mass unhindered.
anything but making the BortaS into another carrier.
Since we already have carriers on the KDF, I would rather not see another one join our ranks.
Why not instead have the +1 BortaS have the following bonuses,
4 Free Turret mounting points that can accept any type of turret without counting towards the ships total 4/4 weapons set-up. The photon Torp idea sounds cool but I never see it getting past the dejectors whom will call shooting a torpedo in a 360 arc as OP.
Two Science slots, as oppossed to the one we currently have.
Bonus +5 to Hull plating and / or Hull Armor skills due to the BortaS size and ability to carry the extra mass unhindered.
anything but making the BortaS into another carrier.
I understand your point; however, that is why I gave options. Also i changed it two 2 waves of 1 BOp hardly a true carrier. Your turret idea is interesting but I think that may be trending into OP with 4 of them... two maybe..4....people will cry at that.
I wanted to clarify that you would only be able to equip one of these special consoles at a time and I would make a significant timer so that you couldn't switch every time you left red alert...in fact it may be one of those things you could only switch at a ship tailor.
Comments
Since most ships released now are +1's it'd be odd if they weren't.
How many times does this need to be sourced, Bob?
It was stated in the PodcastUGC interview with Geko. Dan Stahl was even talking about it when he was EP, when he said that they were considering treating it like the Prometheus with multiple versions obtainable through other means than the in-game fleet action acquisition method he proposed.
EDIT: +1 is a term used by the devs for any C-Store ship. That doesn't mean it will have more consoles although it almost certainly will be balanced in a more desirable way given existing +1 ships on the C-Store.
I know they said they are offering it in the C Store. But my look through every ship offered either in-game or in the C Store does not give me the feeling there is a +1 system in place. Almost every ship that has a special skill is either nerfed in some regard or is matched by another ship that also has a special skill. When I read "+1" it brings back the idea of a ".5" or Tier 6 ship.
All I'm asking is we use a different term. Because if I, a long-term and active member of the community, can be confused by it, then we should use something else. Say "variant" or something. But I think we need to lose the "+1".
It took me a second pass but I realized the debate is over whether a ship with the same number of consoles and BO powers is +1.
To be clear, I expect T5 C-Store ships will be no more imbalanced than the MVAM Prometheus, the Excelsior, or the Jem'Hadar bugship. On paper, that makes them roughly balanced with other T5 ships, unlike, say, the T1-4 +1 ships. That doesn't make them NOT a +1 ship if they're more of a pleasure to use... and of course they will be or people wouldn't buy them.
I don't know anybody is saying that they have a problem with that; most people who do wouldn't be here at this point. But the free Odyssey is just the least popular cruiser with the numbers shuffled around. 1 less turnrate and 3k more hull and a Universal Station with only one good use. So if the C-Store version isn't more pleasant to play than that, good luck selling them. :-)
And I fully expect that Auxiliary ship to be a C Store Exclusive. But I also expect a minor nerf in order to offset that skill. Like I said, my issue is the use of "+1". On a quick read, it sounds like they are giving us a T5 ships but are holding the T6 ships for the C Store when I have seen nothing to indicate they are doing that.
That may be but C-Store consoles are not balanced with in-game consoles so that nerf could in turn be offset by the ship console included.
Granted. But as you pointed out, other than the fact this ship has the ability to take a beating, it doesn't even stack up very well against T5 RA ships must less the T5 VA ships. Perhaps the CStore variant will bring it up to par. I don't know.
My public affairs training kicked in when I saw +1 and I got concerned people would take it the wrong way.
The free version doesn't. But that apparently is by design. Gecko took in our feedback, realized that the free ship was too competitive based on that feedback and altered it to a state that people will gladly ignore.
The +1 version will be given enough shinies and what not that it will generate some interest. It'd be such a waste of PR and a contest and advertisting and development time to not make it worth buying.
I full expect the +1 version to be competitive with the Excelsior.
I realize there needs to be some balancing these ideas were a simple stating point.
Just to throw my 2 cents in...giving a ship significnat special abilities even if you leave the BO and console layouts the same would be +1... especially given the suggestions I put forth.
My thing is the "+1" part. If they called it a "Refit" because of the added features, I'd be satisfied. But even right now STOWiki has it listed as a VA50-level ship. When you say +1, it makes me think ADM60-level. And it may be the devs using that term. I just personally think they should reconsider and use another term. Call it a Refit or a Variant. Just don't call another version of a VA ship a +1.
Sorry. I liked your ideas. If I understand you are talking "choose one" right? Add those and a slight hull nerf, and I like it.
Edit: I take that back. I would rather the player have to pick one to mount rather than give them all three even if they are on a shared cool down. Still, drop the hull from 42,000 to 40,000. If you are a Tac captain with a Tac in the universal slot and choose the auxiliary escort, that's a bit too much firepower for the hull strength.
Understood.
My training as a dramatist and an actor kicked in when I used the term "+1." In my world, even when you understate things, you try to overstate them in how you understate them.
The devs have long been stubborn about ignoring suggestions like that.
Still, I'm not sure I would waste energy worrying about level 60? They've shelved plans to extend level cap. And they've never really given a straight answer on if a level cap raise would bring about T6 ships (which they won't even call Tier 6 except when it suits them).
So all of that discussion hinges on stuff they have twisted up in their own commentary to the point where it makes no sense.
The Free Odyssey is a level 50 ship, though after the changes Gecko has made, it's just a smidge better than the Star Cruiser on the strength of one single universal boff slot and one extra power with a very debatable level of usefulness (the slipstream upgrade).
The paid for Odyssey will be better than the free one. By a dev defined factor of 1. Which right now supposedly includes saucer sep AND that little escort-y ship that supposedly comes with it as well.
Heh.
Regarding the original post and suggestions, it's just hard for me to really devote a lot of time and energy to a ship that the devs decided to turn into a science cruiser. It's like, I dunno, I already have a Nebula. That's a Cruiser based science ship. It'll just feel the same to me.
I like the idea of the escort.
I'd support the escort either with the full ship as a pet or with the ability to summon and dock with the full ship as a kind of "armored mode."
I doubt there will EVER be T6 ships.
This would be a way OP Battle Carrier. They would have to ditch a fore and aft weapon slot to compensate
And the BoP would need to standard ones unless they could to slotted onto the Vo'quv.
But of course there already is a Battle Carrier in the Kar'fi.
I like this but it seems slightly OP. Now if were a Photon with 360, that you could use your Boff abilities thru with a 15sec CD, then I would like it more.
My thoughts were for both the ecort and science variety of auxillary ship the full ship would be a pet with several hull/shiled heals you could activate to apply to the auxillary craft. now your drone/pet odyssey should not have all the stats of your full ship or that would be to OP but perhaps 20% less base hull and all power levels set to 50.... rest to be determined.
Two torp launchers are also way too uber, at least with that 30 sec cooldown you want. Maybe with a 2 min cooldown. I don't even want to imagine a torp spread fired from 2 launchers at 1 ship( happens often enough). Maybe make it so it will only fire a max of 3 torps per launcher, with a max of 1 torp per target every minute or so. If only 1 target in view= only 1 torp launched( per launcher)
Aux craft... I'm okay with it, as long as it is a t3-4 with t3-4 skills/buffs.
Odyseey... those ideas seem okay to me.
Excellant suggestions. What about keeping the weapon slots the same but dropping it to 2 BOPs 1 each per wave with say a minute cool down between.
I see your point on the photon turrets being OP. I could see simplying allowing them to be useable by Boff powers... however Torpedo spread 3 laucbhed from both seems even worse. Howbout one has HYT1 and the other has Torpedo spread 1, 15 second cool down and 5 second global cool down.
Agreed on the OP of the BOP and photon turrets I made some suggested changes just below your post.
Why not instead have the +1 BortaS have the following bonuses,
4 Free Turret mounting points that can accept any type of turret without counting towards the ships total 4/4 weapons set-up. The photon Torp idea sounds cool but I never see it getting past the dejectors whom will call shooting a torpedo in a 360 arc as OP.
Two Science slots, as oppossed to the one we currently have.
Bonus +5 to Hull plating and / or Hull Armor skills due to the BortaS size and ability to carry the extra mass unhindered.
anything but making the BortaS into another carrier.
I understand your point; however, that is why I gave options. Also i changed it two 2 waves of 1 BOp hardly a true carrier. Your turret idea is interesting but I think that may be trending into OP with 4 of them... two maybe..4....people will cry at that.