While I'm sure it has been discussed, or asked, the number of ways the topic can be brought up seems to muddle the search and I can't find anything fitting what I'm asking, so here's my situation.
I am considering playing this game, but I am in no position to purchase anything. Typically I like to feel out a game's potential before committing real currency to it anyhow, but the point was made for the following concerns.
Are the ships purchased in the C-Store able to be acquired through in-game (no real currency purchases) means? If so, are these means reasonable (opinionated responses are expected and accepted)? If not (or they aren't reasonable to obtain by any other means), are they overbearingly powerful when compared to the ships available to someone strictly free-to-play? Will I find myself constantly bested by people with store bought ships in similar ranked, in-game purchased ships?
Another, though albeit slight, concern is retraining skill points. Are they only available to the free accounts via purchase (I've read up on some conflicting information, so I'm not a hundred percent on it)? Is it possible to completely ruin yourself with one 'wrong' choice? I realize this particular one will attract those in the camps of 'maximize or bust' and 'whatever fits your play-style', but I have ran into a few games where, literally, a single misplaced point spells complete doom and you end up having to either pay some outrageous cost for a reset or make a new character outright.
I suppose the short-hand concern is whether or not this all ends up dissolving into a pay-to-win mechanic, but I like to describe my concerns as accurate as possible.
Any help and/or opinions on this matter are welcome and appreciated. Thank you.
cant speak about the respec side, i hardly ever use them myself.. but the ships, well..
the C-Store ships are refered to as "+1 ships" but personally, i cant see much difference in them myself, not when it comes to the basic ship anyway, at ranks lower than VA.
they do come with something extra however, normally a console of some sort, sometimes something else (like the quad cannons) but these can be used in most cases on any other ship of the same class at the very least. (for example, the point defense syste can be used on any escort, shop purchased or not)
as for earning them in-game, well, not directly.. you can earn the dilithium currency in-game, and use that on the dilithium exchange to buy cryptic points, which can then be used to buy those ships. Dilithium is a "time gated" currency however, you earn ore, as much as you can, there's no limits on how much ore you can earn, but you can only refine 8,000 units per day, and you can only use the refined dilithium at in-game stores or on the dilithium exchange..
Now when you say VA, I'm taking it you mean the rank, Vice Admiral?
My worry is that these '+1 ships' will essentially be superior in every facet to the in-game purchased ships; most particularly when you compare them to, say, the end-game ships. I'm just curious to know if it is completely viable to get by on an account that doesn't buy anything, or any ships, from the C-Store.
I've played some games where the store bought items literally meant that no matter what you did, how well you did, or how well you were equip, if you came toe to toe with someone using the store bought equipment, you lose. The difference in gear bonuses were that overpowering.
Much as I like the look and what I've seen of the game, I'm still worried that if I'm running around in the, just for the sake of example, a max rank, in-game ship, and come up against a max rank, C-Store ship, that no matter how well I play, how well I might be outfitted, or what I do, they win, for the simple reason that their ship is just that much more powerful then my own. Basically becoming something of a requirement if you intend to actually get anywhere in the game; especially PvP.
It's a valid concern, I feel, and something I know many people worry about in MMOs that are, or go, F2P.
On a side note, if you purchase a Gold subscription and revert to a Silver, is there anything you keep, and if so, what?
Thanks again. The prompt response was nice and I definitely appreciate it.
Regarding +1 Ships, at Tier 1 through 4 they generally come with the ability to add more consoles (for things increasing passive damage, weapon damage, etc.) and the ability to slot more powers, greater speed... stuff like that. And that's in addition to the added special items they all come with which are not otherwise available in-game. While the odds aren't insurmountable, they are noticeable, and you'll be at a distinct disadvantage when facing someone in a numerically better ship. Tier 5 is the cap currently, and we have yet to see a new ship introduced there since the +1 policy was dumped on us, but the CStore version of the upcoming Odyssey class is set to be the first. How that turns out should be... enlightening.
Regarding the DIlithium Exchange and the ability to earn CStore ships in-game, 250 Dilithium per 1cp is considered to be a "good" price (and we've seen Dilithium prices more than double that). A high end ship costs 2,000cp, meaning to buy it you'd need 500,000 Dilithium. Which means 63 days of pure grind, assuming you grind out the maximum amount of DIlithium every day, never spend any, and prices don't ever spike above the lows we're seeing, which could easily cause that time frame to double.
Respecs are store-bought only unless you subscribe, in which case you get one per rank, and even then when those are spent then they're store-bought only.
Now when you say VA, I'm taking it you mean the rank, Vice Admiral?
My worry is that these '+1 ships' will essentially be superior in every facet to the in-game purchased ships; most particularly when you compare them to, say, the end-game ships. I'm just curious to know if it is completely viable to get by on an account that doesn't buy anything, or any ships, from the C-Store.
I've played some games where the store bought items literally meant that no matter what you did, how well you did, or how well you were equip, if you came toe to toe with someone using the store bought equipment, you lose. The difference in gear bonuses were that overpowering.
Much as I like the look and what I've seen of the game, I'm still worried that if I'm running around in the, just for the sake of example, a max rank, in-game ship, and come up against a max rank, C-Store ship, that no matter how well I play, how well I might be outfitted, or what I do, they win, for the simple reason that their ship is just that much more powerful then my own. Basically becoming something of a requirement if you intend to actually get anywhere in the game; especially PvP.
It's a valid concern, I feel, and something I know many people worry about in MMOs that are, or go, F2P.
On a side note, if you purchase a Gold subscription and revert to a Silver, is there anything you keep, and if so, what?
Thanks again. The prompt response was nice and I definitely appreciate it.
aye yeah, sorry VA meaning Vice Admiral.
I assume you mean "up against someone" you mean in PvP? there's not really much for players to compete against each other with in any other terms here.
I personally dont PvP, not here, not anywhere, not ever. I have a long list of reasons why that i wonit bore anyone with at this time and because thats not the point of your thread either but yeah, i cant tell you anything about how well a "+1" does in PvP, because i couldnt tell you how well a "normal" ship does in PvP.
and i'll be honest, I think in asking that you will be told two things.
- the ships are definately OP and the game is now pay to win.
- the ships are fine and people need to "Learn 2 play"
As most all MMO's include some type of PvP these days, these comments are universal, regardless of the games age, balance passes, subscription only or free to play.. because its subjective.
I think this is because someone cant beat a "+1" ship, they will think its overpowered, while someone who has found a way to beat any tactic or strategy created by the use of the difference in a "+1" ship will hold the opinion that they're nothing special. its all down to the individuals personal experience against other players and their ability to use whatever they are using.
I understand what you are saying though, and that some games may have items that create a massive dissadvantage that cannot be overcome which are sold through a store, but I personally have not seen difinative proof of that with the C-Store ships going by forum reactions so far. right now its very much like the "escorts are overpowered" argument i've seen a lot of recently. regardless of if they're shop bought or in-game a lot of people feel escorts are too powerful..
I saw a while back that people felt cruisers were unbeatable, or carriers.. i've seen more people complain about things like that than about the C-store ships so far.
finally, sorry, cant offer any insight on transitioning from gold to silver, as someone who bought a lifetime, its not something I could experience.
i'll wait to be bashed by people who PvP who are going to tell me i dont know anything now
and i'll be honest, I think in asking that you will be told two things.
- the ships are definately OP and the game is now pay to win.
- the ships are fine and people need to "Learn 2 play"
As most all MMO's include some type of PvP these days, these comments are universal, regardless of the games age, balance passes, subscription only or free to play.. because its subjective.
I think this is because someone cant beat a "+1" ship, they will think its overpowered, while someone who has found a way to beat any tactic or strategy created by the use of the difference in a "+1" ship will hold the opinion that they're nothing special. its all down to the individuals personal experience against other players and their ability to use whatever they are using.
You should really look into what exactly the +1 Refit Ships actually mean. There's no debate, they are conclusively superior to standard ships. If someone tries to argue that they are balanced then they either haven't bothered to look, or they are so bad at math that they can't tell that four is a higher number than three.
For instance, the first +1 Refit released was the Rhode Island, the Nova+1.
The differences are in red, and those are the only differences beyond the Rhode Island also having:[Console - Universal - Photonic Displacer]. It is nothing but advantages over it's "sister ship", having an extra console slot, a higher level Bridge Officer station, higher speed, and special power wrapped up in a console. The Nova has literally nothing to compensate, and if you've unlocked the Rhode Island there is literally no reason to ever fly the Nova instead, since it's entirely inferior.
When he showed up to discuss the ship just before it's release, CaptainGeko (the guy who makes these things), bluntly admitted the ship was overpowered, and intentionally so. (STOked episode 93, about 8m39s in, Jeremy/Borticus says that people are worrying the advantages make it over powered, and Geko responded: "Um, yeah, I mean you can argue that it... that it does. Yes it does.")
While I'm sure it has been discussed, or asked, the number of ways the topic can be brought up seems to muddle the search and I can't find anything fitting what I'm asking, so here's my situation.
I am considering playing this game, but I am in no position to purchase anything. Typically I like to feel out a game's potential before committing real currency to it anyhow, but the point was made for the following concerns.
Are the ships purchased in the C-Store able to be acquired through in-game (no real currency purchases) means? If so, are these means reasonable (opinionated responses are expected and accepted)? If not (or they aren't reasonable to obtain by any other means), are they overbearingly powerful when compared to the ships available to someone strictly free-to-play? Will I find myself constantly bested by people with store bought ships in similar ranked, in-game purchased ships?
Another, though albeit slight, concern is retraining skill points. Are they only available to the free accounts via purchase (I've read up on some conflicting information, so I'm not a hundred percent on it)? Is it possible to completely ruin yourself with one 'wrong' choice? I realize this particular one will attract those in the camps of 'maximize or bust' and 'whatever fits your play-style', but I have ran into a few games where, literally, a single misplaced point spells complete doom and you end up having to either pay some outrageous cost for a reset or make a new character outright.
I suppose the short-hand concern is whether or not this all ends up dissolving into a pay-to-win mechanic, but I like to describe my concerns as accurate as possible.
Any help and/or opinions on this matter are welcome and appreciated. Thank you.
Yes, C-store stuff can be purchased without using real currency. But the trick is earning enough dilithium from missions and events, then exchanging that Dilithium on the Dilithium Exchange to earn enough C-Store points to buy what you want from the C-store. Unfortunately, that might take a very long time. So probably faster to at least splurge $6.50 for 500 points or $12.50 for 1000 points per month.
As for the Standard Ships compared to the C-Store ships, technically the Tier 1-4 ships do have a slight advantage. But unless you PvP, you really wouldn't have to worry. The Tier 5 refits aren't a necessity, its really for the fans. Now can't comment on the new Tier 5 +1 ships that were mentioned recently. So it's wait and see.
You should really look into what exactly the +1 Refit Ships actually mean. There's no debate, they are conclusively superior to standard ships. If someone tries to argue that they are balanced then they either haven't bothered to look, or they are so bad at math that they can't tell that four is a higher number than three.
In all honesty, on a personal note, PvP hold no appeal for me, so i've never looked in to any differences in any ships, ever, be they C-Store or cruiser/escort/sci at any level with that sort of thought in mind.
I did say, several times i think, that I dont PvP and cant comment on how the ships are in that regard. My comments on PvP were general and have been said in this game, and others, many times. I was mearly trying to say that most people will only provide a subjective and personalised response based on their own experience.
Thank you for putting the numbers up however, they should be helpful to the OP in gathering information to make up their own minds on the matter
Well, I appreciate the replies, that's for sure. All the information contained is something to consider.
When I play a game, I tend to try and experience both sides of the spectrum; PvP and PvE. I try not to keep myself corralled into one or the other, because typically (and it isn't always the case) one side or the other is only half the game. That being the case, I suppose it all culminates in how I'd feel when faced against such an opponent.
Is the disadvantage so great that you really just have no chance at winning a fight, or is it noticeable, but if you fight well, perhaps out play the opponent, can you still come out on top? I suppose the way to put it would be this. Do the store bought ships confer such an advantage as to negate any skill from the player in the basic ship? Is the fight already decided just because of the '+1 ship'?
I'm sorry for questions that seem similar. You've all been very helpful and I'm more or less trying to get the opinion of people that have experience in the game, know all the ways you can set something up, and such.
Thanks again.
EDIT: I should point out that I'm not the kind to go crying foul just because I lost a fight. Nor am I the kind to believe K/D ratio means a damn thing. I don't mind losing in a hard fought fight, but it's when the fight is so one-sided it isn't fun, well, that's where I have to draw the line.
The +1 ships are slightly more efficient than normal (earned in-game) ships. However that is not gamebreaking in any way shape or form. Both ships can equip the exact same items and have access to the exact same variety. It's just that the +1 ships are getting one console there, one small boost there etc.
So at the end of the day, they are very similar and the differences are not that visible.
Oh, some +1 ships have the option to detach the "saucer" part from the hull, which is pretty neat.
But to give a short answer: playing with a normal ship is allowing you to be just as efficient as a +1 ship.
Not to mention that if you will attend to the special 2nd anniversary event which starts this Thursday, you will be able to earn, for free, the Odyssey Class Cruiser.
Thank you very much. I believe that sums up all of my questions and I think I will give this a go. I appreciate everything and hopefully I can find as much enjoyment out of the game as I have had watching videos and seeing screenshots. Not to mention the polite replies to my thread. I've seen questions like mine dissolve really quickly into heated debates about ships that are overpowered or not.
Comments
the C-Store ships are refered to as "+1 ships" but personally, i cant see much difference in them myself, not when it comes to the basic ship anyway, at ranks lower than VA.
they do come with something extra however, normally a console of some sort, sometimes something else (like the quad cannons) but these can be used in most cases on any other ship of the same class at the very least. (for example, the point defense syste can be used on any escort, shop purchased or not)
as for earning them in-game, well, not directly.. you can earn the dilithium currency in-game, and use that on the dilithium exchange to buy cryptic points, which can then be used to buy those ships. Dilithium is a "time gated" currency however, you earn ore, as much as you can, there's no limits on how much ore you can earn, but you can only refine 8,000 units per day, and you can only use the refined dilithium at in-game stores or on the dilithium exchange..
so its possible, if not easy or quick.
My worry is that these '+1 ships' will essentially be superior in every facet to the in-game purchased ships; most particularly when you compare them to, say, the end-game ships. I'm just curious to know if it is completely viable to get by on an account that doesn't buy anything, or any ships, from the C-Store.
I've played some games where the store bought items literally meant that no matter what you did, how well you did, or how well you were equip, if you came toe to toe with someone using the store bought equipment, you lose. The difference in gear bonuses were that overpowering.
Much as I like the look and what I've seen of the game, I'm still worried that if I'm running around in the, just for the sake of example, a max rank, in-game ship, and come up against a max rank, C-Store ship, that no matter how well I play, how well I might be outfitted, or what I do, they win, for the simple reason that their ship is just that much more powerful then my own. Basically becoming something of a requirement if you intend to actually get anywhere in the game; especially PvP.
It's a valid concern, I feel, and something I know many people worry about in MMOs that are, or go, F2P.
On a side note, if you purchase a Gold subscription and revert to a Silver, is there anything you keep, and if so, what?
Thanks again. The prompt response was nice and I definitely appreciate it.
Regarding the DIlithium Exchange and the ability to earn CStore ships in-game, 250 Dilithium per 1cp is considered to be a "good" price (and we've seen Dilithium prices more than double that). A high end ship costs 2,000cp, meaning to buy it you'd need 500,000 Dilithium. Which means 63 days of pure grind, assuming you grind out the maximum amount of DIlithium every day, never spend any, and prices don't ever spike above the lows we're seeing, which could easily cause that time frame to double.
Respecs are store-bought only unless you subscribe, in which case you get one per rank, and even then when those are spent then they're store-bought only.
aye yeah, sorry VA meaning Vice Admiral.
I assume you mean "up against someone" you mean in PvP? there's not really much for players to compete against each other with in any other terms here.
I personally dont PvP, not here, not anywhere, not ever. I have a long list of reasons why that i wonit bore anyone with at this time and because thats not the point of your thread either
and i'll be honest, I think in asking that you will be told two things.
- the ships are definately OP and the game is now pay to win.
- the ships are fine and people need to "Learn 2 play"
As most all MMO's include some type of PvP these days, these comments are universal, regardless of the games age, balance passes, subscription only or free to play.. because its subjective.
I think this is because someone cant beat a "+1" ship, they will think its overpowered, while someone who has found a way to beat any tactic or strategy created by the use of the difference in a "+1" ship will hold the opinion that they're nothing special. its all down to the individuals personal experience against other players and their ability to use whatever they are using.
I understand what you are saying though, and that some games may have items that create a massive dissadvantage that cannot be overcome which are sold through a store, but I personally have not seen difinative proof of that with the C-Store ships going by forum reactions so far. right now its very much like the "escorts are overpowered" argument i've seen a lot of recently. regardless of if they're shop bought or in-game a lot of people feel escorts are too powerful..
I saw a while back that people felt cruisers were unbeatable, or carriers.. i've seen more people complain about things like that than about the C-store ships so far.
finally, sorry, cant offer any insight on transitioning from gold to silver, as someone who bought a lifetime, its not something I could experience.
i'll wait to be bashed by people who PvP who are going to tell me i dont know anything now
You should really look into what exactly the +1 Refit Ships actually mean. There's no debate, they are conclusively superior to standard ships. If someone tries to argue that they are balanced then they either haven't bothered to look, or they are so bad at math that they can't tell that four is a higher number than three.
For instance, the first +1 Refit released was the Rhode Island, the Nova+1.
Rank: Lieutenant Commander
Tier: 2
Type: Science Vessel
Hull: 13,500
Standard Shields: 4,030
Weapons: Fore 2 Aft 2
Crew: 100
Bridge Officers: Ensign Science, Ensign Tactical, Ensign Engineering, Lieutenant Science
Device Slots:3
Consoles: 1 Tactical, 1 Engineering, 2 Science
Turn Rate: 14
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia rating: 60
Bonus Power: +15 auxiliary power
Rank: Lieutenant Commander
Tier: 2
Type: Science Vessel
Hull: 13,500
Standard Shields: 4,030
Weapons: Fore 2 Aft 2
Crew: 100
Bridge Officers: Ensign Tactical, Ensign Engineering, Lieutenant Science, Lieutenant Science
Device Slots:3
Consoles: 1 Tactical, 2 Engineering, 2 Science
Turn Rate: 14
Impulse Modifier: 0.20
Inertia rating: 60
Bonus Power: +15 auxiliary power
When he showed up to discuss the ship just before it's release, CaptainGeko (the guy who makes these things), bluntly admitted the ship was overpowered, and intentionally so. (STOked episode 93, about 8m39s in, Jeremy/Borticus says that people are worrying the advantages make it over powered, and Geko responded: "Um, yeah, I mean you can argue that it... that it does. Yes it does.")
Yes, C-store stuff can be purchased without using real currency. But the trick is earning enough dilithium from missions and events, then exchanging that Dilithium on the Dilithium Exchange to earn enough C-Store points to buy what you want from the C-store. Unfortunately, that might take a very long time. So probably faster to at least splurge $6.50 for 500 points or $12.50 for 1000 points per month.
As for the Standard Ships compared to the C-Store ships, technically the Tier 1-4 ships do have a slight advantage. But unless you PvP, you really wouldn't have to worry. The Tier 5 refits aren't a necessity, its really for the fans. Now can't comment on the new Tier 5 +1 ships that were mentioned recently. So it's wait and see.
In all honesty, on a personal note, PvP hold no appeal for me, so i've never looked in to any differences in any ships, ever, be they C-Store or cruiser/escort/sci at any level with that sort of thought in mind.
I did say, several times i think, that I dont PvP and cant comment on how the ships are in that regard. My comments on PvP were general and have been said in this game, and others, many times. I was mearly trying to say that most people will only provide a subjective and personalised response based on their own experience.
Thank you for putting the numbers up however, they should be helpful to the OP in gathering information to make up their own minds on the matter
When I play a game, I tend to try and experience both sides of the spectrum; PvP and PvE. I try not to keep myself corralled into one or the other, because typically (and it isn't always the case) one side or the other is only half the game. That being the case, I suppose it all culminates in how I'd feel when faced against such an opponent.
Is the disadvantage so great that you really just have no chance at winning a fight, or is it noticeable, but if you fight well, perhaps out play the opponent, can you still come out on top? I suppose the way to put it would be this. Do the store bought ships confer such an advantage as to negate any skill from the player in the basic ship? Is the fight already decided just because of the '+1 ship'?
I'm sorry for questions that seem similar. You've all been very helpful and I'm more or less trying to get the opinion of people that have experience in the game, know all the ways you can set something up, and such.
Thanks again.
EDIT: I should point out that I'm not the kind to go crying foul just because I lost a fight. Nor am I the kind to believe K/D ratio means a damn thing. I don't mind losing in a hard fought fight, but it's when the fight is so one-sided it isn't fun, well, that's where I have to draw the line.
So at the end of the day, they are very similar and the differences are not that visible.
Oh, some +1 ships have the option to detach the "saucer" part from the hull, which is pretty neat.
But to give a short answer: playing with a normal ship is allowing you to be just as efficient as a +1 ship.
Not to mention that if you will attend to the special 2nd anniversary event which starts this Thursday, you will be able to earn, for free, the Odyssey Class Cruiser.
Again, thanks to all who answered.
One can be earned at RALH, while the ladder is a VA Vessel. - The difference between the two will be marked in red.
Normal in game Promethius stats:
Tier 5
Type: Escort
Hull Rating: 30,000
Standard Shields: 4,478
Weapons: 4 fore and 3 aft
Crew compliment: 150
Bridge Officers: 1 ensign Science - 1 Lt Eng - 1 Lt Science - 1 Lt Commander Tact - 1 Tact Commander
Device Slots: 2
Consoles: 4 Tac / 2 Eng / 3 Sci
Turn Rate: 15
Impulse Modifier: 0.20
Inertia Rating 70
Bonus Power: +15 Weapon Power
Base Cost: 120,000 Dilithium
CStore Promethius stats:
Tier 5
Type: Escort
Hull Rating: 30,000
Standard Shields: 4,702
Weapons: 4 fore and 3 aft
Crew compliment: 150
Bridge Officers: 1 Tac ensign / 1 Lt Eng / 1 Lt Tac / 1 Lt Commander Sci / 1 Tac Commander
Device Slots: 2
Consoles: 4 Tac / 2 Eng / 3 Sci
Turn Rate: 15
Impulse Modifier: 0.20
Inertia Rating 70
Bonus Power: +15 Weapon Power
CStore Cost: 2,000 Points
Special Console: Multi-Vector Assault Module