So, All the Enterprises 1701 to 1701-E have all been canon. Been in shows and movies.
So what about this new Enterprise F?
Yes. It's been created and going to be released virtually and not on a show or books so "technically" it's not canon in the traditional sense.
BUT
This is the Enterprise we're talking about here. The basis of Star Trek.
Weren't there special talks with either Paramount or CBS about this whole "create the next Enterprise" to approve it? So if they OK'd it, doesn't that mean it's canon? Any word from Roddenberry about this?
Roddenberry died in 1991. He will not be giving his opinion.
Beyond that... it's only as 'canon' as you want it to be. Tranditionally, canon material stops at official movies and television shows, with books being secondary and everything else being tertiary. Computer games have introduced a new element of canon, but I don't think anything in STO will ever work it's way back into television.
I would strongly suspect that, if there's another series down the road, they will completely ignore the Enterprise-F.
In fact, the show has regularly ignored it's own well-established canon... you think they'll ever take anything from a computer game?
Last I heard it was canonical. But outside of STO, it's not written in stone and could change if CBS decides on a new Star Trek series or Paramount is convinced to do one more TNG-era movie.
Last I heard it was canonical. But outside of STO, it's not written in stone and could change if CBS decides on a new Star Trek series or Paramount is convinced to do one more TNG-era movie.
Yes, Rod Jr is very active in the Trek community. Unfortunately, all the power lies in CBS.
Pretty much this. Dev chatter at the time suggested that, as far as CBS is concerned, it is the Enterprise - F; but it is still 'soft' canon (having never appeared in a movie or series), and will lose its status should 'hard' canon be updated with a different Ent-F.
All very good points, but with the second JJ Trek movie (alternate universe) in the works, does it even matter?
Will the 'original' Star Trek universe ever make a big screen appearance again?
Well you can never say never with Star Trek. It was written off so many times and keeps bouncing back.
There has been talks with CBS on a new TV show and Paramount with a new movie, both in the original universe. So people are still trying. And I would love to see one more TNG-era movie thats similar to Star Trek 6 in ending the tale and at the same time, opening up for a future generation.
And given the success of 2009's movie and the energy into the new 2012 movie, they definitely want new blood to continue the franchise and take it in a new direction.
I hope there will be new TNG adventures, especially since at the end of Nemesis the Enterprise-E was shown to be repaired to spaceworthy condition ASAP.
Sadly I am a late bloomer to Trek, which only truly caught my fancy with Cpt. Janeway.
Well you can never say never with Star Trek. It was written off so many times and keeps bouncing back.
There has been talks with CBS on a new TV show and Paramount with a new movie, both in the original universe. So people are still trying. And I would love to see one more TNG-era movie thats similar to Star Trek 6 in ending the tale and at the same time, opening up for a future generation.
And given the success of 2009's movie and the energy into the new 2012 movie, they definitely want new blood to continue the franchise and take it in a new direction.
how cannon is it? it's not at all since there is no story or background to the ship, it's captain and nothing to explain why there is an F version without explaining what happened to the E version, you know, the one with Captain Data in command.
how cannon is it? it's not at all since there is no story or background to the ship, it's captain and nothing to explain why there is an F version without explaining what happened to the E version, you know, the one with Captain Data in command.
How canon? As said earlier, it's not 100% official til we have it on TV or in the Movies.
With the E, in the Path to 2409 it went missing in the McAlister Nebula. And guess it's left open until CBS decides what to do with it.
The F's story is supposed to be part of the new Featured Event.
So, All the Enterprises 1701 to 1701-E have all been canon. Been in shows and movies.
So what about this new Enterprise F?
Yes. It's been created and going to be released virtually and not on a show or books so "technically" it's not canon in the traditional sense.
BUT
This is the Enterprise we're talking about here. The basis of Star Trek.
Weren't there special talks with either Paramount or CBS about this whole "create the next Enterprise" to approve it? So if they OK'd it, doesn't that mean it's canon? Any word from Roddenberry about this?
As canon as anything can be for a Startrek computer game.
So, don't expect it to be referenced in novels, unless they are based on STO.
Absolutely do not expect it to be referenced in any upcoming movies or TV shows.
Except it to be referenced and canon for purposes of this game.
All very good points, but with the second JJ Trek movie (alternate universe) in the works, does it even matter?
Will the 'original' Star Trek universe ever make a big screen appearance again?
paramount owns the films and cbs own the tv series. cbs could make a pirmline show if they want as they dont have the rights to what goes on in the jjverse. or someone may decided in twenty years to have a brand new show in the main timeline after the new films have ended.
it probably wont happen anytime soon but its still very possible.
i recently read about a story idea that would have taken place between ENT and TOS and be focused on the earth/romulan war
you know, the one spoken about all the time but has never really been shown or had any real explination of.
it was pitched as a three-movie idea, but ditched to go with the sparkle-lensflare-prise JJ came out with.
I'd like to see CBS carry the torch for the prime universe, be it with a series based on the idea mentioned above (three seasons, possibly two with maybe an option to continue further) or something taking place a decade or so after voyagers return (still before the setting time of STO)
but i doubt it, after the fans slammed ENT so hard the franchise is still bruised for it i doubt CBS will risk money on anything past this game, hell half the time it seems they dont really want to spend on this either!
NO - The Enterprise F is NOT Canon -Unless- its made reference to by design in a series or movie.
Here is wiki's take on Canon:
Canonicity
The official Star Trek website describes Star Trek canon as "the events that take place within the live-action episodes and movies" (that is, the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the Star Trek motion pictures).[8] Events, characters and story lines from tie-in novels, comic books, video games and Star Trek: The Animated Series are explicitly excluded from the Star Trek canon, but the site notes that elements from these sources have been subsequently introduced into the television series, and says that "canon is not something set in stone."[8] One example of a non-canonical element that later became canonical in the Star Trek universe was the name "Tiberius" becoming the official middle name of Enterprise captain James T. Kirk. The name was introduced in the Star Trek animated series, and was later added into the official biography of the character by its mention in the live-action film Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. - Wiki
As canon as anything can be for a Startrek computer game.
So, don't expect it to be referenced in novels, unless they are based on STO.
Absolutely do not expect it to be referenced in any upcoming movies or TV shows.
Except it to be referenced and canon for purposes of this game.
I'd go one further though. Similar to the Luna, I think CBS will want to use it because they own it. It's an extra toy/model they can sell. Unlike most video game ships, CBS owns this one.
And making an alternative would cost more money.
If they developed a TV show set on the F, you might see something different. If not, it would probably be cheaper for them just to use this design... and given their push for synergy (for example, Countdown being acknowledged in the comics, game, and books), I'd be surprised not to see this turn up at least as a class on novel covers and in IDW books.
So not canon but CBS has more of an interest in this one than the Armada ships.
but i doubt it, after the fans slammed ENT so hard the franchise is still bruised for it i doubt CBS will risk money on anything past this game, hell half the time it seems they dont really want to spend on this either!
There are production companies interested in producing as a licensees but it's a matter of the right pitch and the money.
Most of the pitches I've seen are post-F. I've seen more than one with a Kirk descendant and a technological crash or spotlight on a ship that is somehow cut off.
There's interest in a JJ Trek TV spinoff as well but that would take Paramount's cooperation, which they don't seem interested in giving until they've done at least three movies.
I would say that those who really love the design will say it's canon, and those that don't will say it's not canon, or vice versa. CBS did say though that it is canon, even if the rest of the game is'nt. Think about it like this.
The Devs were not allowed to pick which design they wanted for the Enterprise, CBS had to. If they were not really thinking about having this as the official Enterprise-F and eventually just leave it as the product of this game, why not just let the devs pick it.
Besides, the idea of another series in the prime timeline is unlikely in itself for the time being, let alone one near 2409 or TNG. The resaon I say 2409 is becase, if you made a show that disregarded the game's story altogether, do you know how many people would stop playing the game? Why play a game that's story is superceded by a TV show.
Also the likelyhood of a new show based off of news, more likely to be set in the alternate universe. Either way, we should'nt expect a new show until the last of the JJ Trek movies are done. In say six year....
To answer your question: Although the game is only soft canon, CBS has said several times that the Enterprise F IS canon. If CBS said it then it is true.
So, All the Enterprises 1701 to 1701-E have all been canon. Been in shows and movies.
So what about this new Enterprise F?
Yes. It's been created and going to be released virtually and not on a show or books so "technically" it's not canon in the traditional sense.
BUT
This is the Enterprise we're talking about here. The basis of Star Trek.
Weren't there special talks with either Paramount or CBS about this whole "create the next Enterprise" to approve it? So if they OK'd it, doesn't that mean it's canon? Any word from Roddenberry about this?
The Enterprise F isn't canon. It was made for a video game that is pretty much the equal to Star Trek's EU. It's like saying all the ST books (other than novelizations of the films/actual episodes) are canon.
Well for the time being the F is canon in the game but as for offiical canon it is not until has been shown in movies and tv series. Since the E has not been written of I think and hope that they may have a plan for her in there future. The F is a good ship don't get me wrong.
< throws down shovel, chicken bones, rum and cigar > We could still ask?
Wasn't Roddenberry shot into space?
As for the "F" being canon; I reserve judgement on that. It's hard to say what's "canon" and what isn't when the powers at be (in this case, CBS) can't even decide.
Unless CBS decides to do what Hasbro has done with Transformers and say, "yeah, it's all canon, jus tin different universes." Which, honestly, gives me a headache.
As for the "F" being canon; I reserve judgement on that. It's hard to say what's "canon" and what isn't when the powers at be (in this case, CBS) can't even decide.
Actually its not hard at all, for the simple fact that if we use the TV series as stepping stone into canonization we can add whatever is new into lore.
CBS does own the rights to the licence - however; they do NOT qualify as the true writers of the canon, I'm referring to the creative aspect of it. They may have a say, but if its not officially produced or mentioned via the TV series or movies, it is not an official canon piece.
I see CBS as more of preservers of the canons, and whatever they may allow in the Star Trek universe is unoffical until its actually written in or mentioned in a TV series or a movie. CBS simply provide the funding and will capitalized on the license for the sole purpose of making a profit.
With that said, they do have the power to influence something into and out of canonization, but the actual process relies in the hands of the Star Trek writers of a TV series or a movie.
So as a rule of thumb:
If something is written into a story arc in a TV series or a movie, or even mentioned or displayed, then it has been OFFICIALLY canonized.
Pocket books, novels, and especially video games are NOT considered Canon unless otherwise mentioned in the TV series or movies.
The only exception to this is technical manuals that have been either sponsored by the writers and creators themselves.
Novels are considered apocrypha and loosely based off what is already canon, despite how good the books are.
NOTE: STO is NOT, I repeat NOT Canon despite the CBS influence to protect their product. Ship designs etc... are not official, this can be easily understood by the mere fact that when they or "IF" they come out with a new movie in the prime universe - I am sure that when they make a new design for the Enterprise, it will be a significantly different Enterprise.
(Exception to ship design are the ones placed in game that are from the official canon - like the centaur etc...)
Comments
Roddenberry died in 1991. He will not be giving his opinion.
Beyond that... it's only as 'canon' as you want it to be. Tranditionally, canon material stops at official movies and television shows, with books being secondary and everything else being tertiary. Computer games have introduced a new element of canon, but I don't think anything in STO will ever work it's way back into television.
I would strongly suspect that, if there's another series down the road, they will completely ignore the Enterprise-F.
In fact, the show has regularly ignored it's own well-established canon... you think they'll ever take anything from a computer game?
His son is still pretty active in Star Trek.
EDIT: and as the only living Roddenberry, he might have a say in Star Trek politics although Paramount and CBS probably have all the say :P
Yes, Rod Jr is very active in the Trek community. Unfortunately, all the power lies with CBS.
Will the 'original' Star Trek universe ever make a big screen appearance again?
Pretty much this. Dev chatter at the time suggested that, as far as CBS is concerned, it is the Enterprise - F; but it is still 'soft' canon (having never appeared in a movie or series), and will lose its status should 'hard' canon be updated with a different Ent-F.
Well you can never say never with Star Trek. It was written off so many times and keeps bouncing back.
There has been talks with CBS on a new TV show and Paramount with a new movie, both in the original universe. So people are still trying. And I would love to see one more TNG-era movie thats similar to Star Trek 6 in ending the tale and at the same time, opening up for a future generation.
And given the success of 2009's movie and the energy into the new 2012 movie, they definitely want new blood to continue the franchise and take it in a new direction.
Sadly I am a late bloomer to Trek, which only truly caught my fancy with Cpt. Janeway.
It's going to be a 2013 Movie.
I just noticed that they have added Peter Weller to the cast.... wow ROBO-KLINGON or ROBO-KHAN ???
<chuckle>
people enter
CBS/Cryptic Pick Winner
CANON
Simple
Consider it canon for now until something hard canon contradicts it.
...or blows it up.
How canon? As said earlier, it's not 100% official til we have it on TV or in the Movies.
With the E, in the Path to 2409 it went missing in the McAlister Nebula. And guess it's left open until CBS decides what to do with it.
The F's story is supposed to be part of the new Featured Event.
As canon as anything can be for a Startrek computer game.
So, don't expect it to be referenced in novels, unless they are based on STO.
Absolutely do not expect it to be referenced in any upcoming movies or TV shows.
Except it to be referenced and canon for purposes of this game.
paramount owns the films and cbs own the tv series. cbs could make a pirmline show if they want as they dont have the rights to what goes on in the jjverse. or someone may decided in twenty years to have a brand new show in the main timeline after the new films have ended.
it probably wont happen anytime soon but its still very possible.
you know, the one spoken about all the time but has never really been shown or had any real explination of.
it was pitched as a three-movie idea, but ditched to go with the sparkle-lensflare-prise JJ came out with.
I'd like to see CBS carry the torch for the prime universe, be it with a series based on the idea mentioned above (three seasons, possibly two with maybe an option to continue further) or something taking place a decade or so after voyagers return (still before the setting time of STO)
but i doubt it, after the fans slammed ENT so hard the franchise is still bruised for it i doubt CBS will risk money on anything past this game, hell half the time it seems they dont really want to spend on this either!
Here is wiki's take on Canon:
I'd go one further though. Similar to the Luna, I think CBS will want to use it because they own it. It's an extra toy/model they can sell. Unlike most video game ships, CBS owns this one.
And making an alternative would cost more money.
If they developed a TV show set on the F, you might see something different. If not, it would probably be cheaper for them just to use this design... and given their push for synergy (for example, Countdown being acknowledged in the comics, game, and books), I'd be surprised not to see this turn up at least as a class on novel covers and in IDW books.
So not canon but CBS has more of an interest in this one than the Armada ships.
There are production companies interested in producing as a licensees but it's a matter of the right pitch and the money.
Most of the pitches I've seen are post-F. I've seen more than one with a Kirk descendant and a technological crash or spotlight on a ship that is somehow cut off.
There's interest in a JJ Trek TV spinoff as well but that would take Paramount's cooperation, which they don't seem interested in giving until they've done at least three movies.
< throws down shovel, chicken bones, rum and cigar > We could still ask?
The Devs were not allowed to pick which design they wanted for the Enterprise, CBS had to. If they were not really thinking about having this as the official Enterprise-F and eventually just leave it as the product of this game, why not just let the devs pick it.
Besides, the idea of another series in the prime timeline is unlikely in itself for the time being, let alone one near 2409 or TNG. The resaon I say 2409 is becase, if you made a show that disregarded the game's story altogether, do you know how many people would stop playing the game? Why play a game that's story is superceded by a TV show.
Also the likelyhood of a new show based off of news, more likely to be set in the alternate universe. Either way, we should'nt expect a new show until the last of the JJ Trek movies are done. In say six year....
To answer your question: Although the game is only soft canon, CBS has said several times that the Enterprise F IS canon. If CBS said it then it is true.
Alright but i'm not putting down zombie Roddenberry if he turns on us...:D
lol Came in here to say the same thing.
The Enterprise F isn't canon. It was made for a video game that is pretty much the equal to Star Trek's EU. It's like saying all the ST books (other than novelizations of the films/actual episodes) are canon.
More important question is how many cannons can we put on it? The more the happier everyone will be...unless they are on the business end.
Wasn't Roddenberry shot into space?
As for the "F" being canon; I reserve judgement on that. It's hard to say what's "canon" and what isn't when the powers at be (in this case, CBS) can't even decide.
Unless CBS decides to do what Hasbro has done with Transformers and say, "yeah, it's all canon, jus tin different universes." Which, honestly, gives me a headache.
Actually its not hard at all, for the simple fact that if we use the TV series as stepping stone into canonization we can add whatever is new into lore.
CBS does own the rights to the licence - however; they do NOT qualify as the true writers of the canon, I'm referring to the creative aspect of it. They may have a say, but if its not officially produced or mentioned via the TV series or movies, it is not an official canon piece.
I see CBS as more of preservers of the canons, and whatever they may allow in the Star Trek universe is unoffical until its actually written in or mentioned in a TV series or a movie. CBS simply provide the funding and will capitalized on the license for the sole purpose of making a profit.
With that said, they do have the power to influence something into and out of canonization, but the actual process relies in the hands of the Star Trek writers of a TV series or a movie.
So as a rule of thumb:
If something is written into a story arc in a TV series or a movie, or even mentioned or displayed, then it has been OFFICIALLY canonized.
Pocket books, novels, and especially video games are NOT considered Canon unless otherwise mentioned in the TV series or movies.
The only exception to this is technical manuals that have been either sponsored by the writers and creators themselves.
Novels are considered apocrypha and loosely based off what is already canon, despite how good the books are.
NOTE: STO is NOT, I repeat NOT Canon despite the CBS influence to protect their product. Ship designs etc... are not official, this can be easily understood by the mere fact that when they or "IF" they come out with a new movie in the prime universe - I am sure that when they make a new design for the Enterprise, it will be a significantly different Enterprise.
(Exception to ship design are the ones placed in game that are from the official canon - like the centaur etc...)
Where does paramount fit into all this?
And does Michael Okuda et al get any say in the design/layout etc etc? Imo he's rather a good designer esp. of Star Trek stuff.